Is it possible to be "pro-life" and "pro-choice" at the same time ?

[kentuck]

Is it possible to believe that abortion is wrong but that your religious beliefs cannot supersede the rights of individuals to make the choice as guaranteed by the rights in our Constitution? Can one be pro-life and totally against abortion but still believe in guaranteed individual rights? Why does one have to believe that the two beliefs cannot coexist? Therefore, if you believe that abortion is wrong, then it follows that you must believe that women do not have individual rights guaranteed by the Constitution? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why cannot one be pro-life and pro-choice?

[roughsatori]

1. Yes: You described me NT

[hippywife]

3. Me, too!

And Dennis Kucinich. :)

[Warpy]

17. The problem with Kucinich

...is that he has a long record of voting against the rights of individual women to make this very important and personal choice. He, along with the whole religious reich, has somehow decided that women are incapable of making serious life decisions, and must be "protected" by law (which protects them right into the clutches of amateur abortionists who have a habit of maiming and killing them).

Hey, nobody out here LIKES abortion. It's expensive, messy, embarrassing and painful, even under well regulated, LEGAL conditions. However, it's also necessary from time to time, just like any other life and health preserving surgery.

So PHOOEY on any candidate with a history of voting his paternalistic, anti-woman, nanny state religious agenda.

[diamondsoul]

39. I hear this a lot, and I'd like to point something out-

Plenty of people have been on one side or the other and switched sides. I can admit that I used to be absolutely, disgustingly pro-life at one point in my life. I was a judgemental little creep in those days, but the fact is I learned a few hard truths and changed my position. Now why should I hold the same change later in life against someone else? He's changed his voting record in more than a year's time, he's spoken openly about it, and he doesn't hide from the unpleasantness of his history.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. No but it is possible to be anti-abortion and pro-choice

The term PRO-LIFE is a "loaded term." What kind of life? I might ask. I personally don't like abortion but will virulently defend a woman's tight to choose what is hers to do with her own body and life.

[kentuck]

5. It could be argued that both pro-life and pro-choice are "loaded" terms..

depending on where we sit...

[Cornus]

40. Pro-choice is not loaded...

...but pro pro-life or pro-abortion might be.

[dansolo]

44. Pro-life is a legitimate term

But only for people who follow it to it's fullest extent. That means that they must also be anti-death penalty, must believe in caring for the sick and the uninsured, and helping to feed and house the homeless. Anyone who doesn't believe in all of these, and other similar positions, is NOT pro-life. However, being pro-life does not give a person the right to restrict the rights of others.

[MrJones]

4. Mario Cuomo did exactly that

when he was governor of New York. I think it's a principled and honorable stance.

[JitterbugPerfume]

11. When they call themselves Pro life

it just really upsets me

The opposite of pro life is anti life
those people are shameless in what they will say and do

I hate the very thought of abortion but I do not think I , or anyone else should try to control someone elses body

[Tinoire]

32. Yeah.... Making the opposite what?

Pro-death? As in pro-death penalty?

Hypocrites is what they are.

[plurality]

6. yeah

democratic catholics do it every day.

so does my boyfriend.

[JohnKleeb]

43. I am pro choice and Catholic but you are right

Describes my grandparents perfectly.

[cherryperry]

7. I am pro-choice only because

I don't want to see women die at the hands of back-alley butchers. Making it illegal will only drive it underground again thus causing women who feel they must have an abortion to seek out one in any way possible. That would also include shoving coat hangers up their vaginas.

Roe v. Wade must be kept intact!

[BansheeBarbie]

8. A 3 Month Fetus May Be "Life"

But, IMO, is not a "Person"

I am pro-Life but support a woman's right to remove a "Proto-Person" from her womb.

Once a fetus can live outside a womb (about 6 months) it might be appropriate to deem it
a "Person".

Expecting families may consider their fetus a "person" at conception.
But that seems to be an emotional, not rational, position. And Law is based on Reason.

Should a fetus that is over 6 months endanger the mother who is carrying it... then
it seems to be her right to terminate the pregnancy.

[Unity]

9. You're simply pro-choice...

Even if you personally think abortion is wrong, you think others should have the right to make that determination for themselves. Many people share your view.

[mitchum]

16. Yes...

exactly

[liberalmuse]

10. 'Pro-life' is misleading...

Alot of people who get worked up over abortion have no problem with the death penalty. They also seem to find vegetarians amusing, in my experience. Many own instruments of death--guns. The term 'pro-life' is yet another example of right-wing distortion, being that a fetus is not truly alive and sentient since it is completely dependent upon the mother's life support system. The same people who claim to be 'pro-life' seem to believe that a fetus has rights above and beyond the prospective mother. A few have bombed abortion clinics, killing people in the process. 'Pro-life', my ass.

[Tinoire]

33. Nice post. Agree 100%

And these same pro-lifers are perfectly ok with children starving to death.

[AnAmerican]

12. That almost sums it up for me

I think abortion is a tragic event, for everyone involved. I also know that it is not my place to dictate how others live their lives.

For me it is not a religious issue, it is human issue.

I will support working to limit the number of abortions performed, not through outlawing it but through education, through altering the economic situation ao that women do are not forced into an abortion because they cannot afford the alternative.

It is a right that should be preserved and defended.

So yes, it IS possible to be against abortion but still keep the law intact.

[MooPie]

14. Abortion is tragic

when a woman feels compelled to end a pregnancy that she really would prefer to bring to term. Not every termination is tragic. In fact, for many women it is a relief. Abortion is also a personal choice, not one that should be dictated by those who hold theological opposition. Personally, I refuse to call anti-abortionists "pro-life" because rarely do I see any actual concern and care fot the living. If these people were truly pro-life, we wouldn't have the hundreds of thousands of women and children living in abject poverty. If these people were "Pro-life" they would do something concrete about helping take care of all the unwanted children brought into this world. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one. But don't expect others to adhere to the same theological and philosophical perspective that you have. It's egotistical and insulting. I find it astonishing in this day and age that people still subordinate a woman to a fetus. That's a sad commentary on the status of women in our society.

[Don_G]

15. I Agree

With one exception...I know a female who believes abortion is a form of retroactive birth control.

If I believed in retroactive birth control, then I would have a Pistol and use it often.

[Warpy]

21. I find that very hard to believe

Surgical abortion is expensive and very painful. Pharmaceutical abortion is also quite painful and even more expensive. Neither is a viable alternative to hormonal, barrier, or IUD birth control methods. Few clinics will perform more than one abortion on the same woman without asking a lot of questions.

I think somebody has been yanking your chain.

[Tinoire]

36. I know 2 of them

This isn't that rare but it is uncommon. Most women I know who have had one would go to extremes not to ever be put in that position again.

[Heddi]

13. Sure it is

I guess I'm "pro-life" in the sense that I personally don't see myself having an abortion should I get pregnant at THIS stage in my life---however, had I gotten pregnant at 16, or 18, or 21 I may have had a different answer.

I don't see abortion as being amoral, immoral, sinful, etc---I wish it was something that didn't have to be done (meaning that I wish every pregnancy was a wanted pregnancy, or a convenient pregnancy, or a planned pregnancy), but the reality of life is that abortions do exist and I support any woman's right to have one for any reason, at any time, as often as she wants.

I'm also anti-gun and pro-gun, for the same reasons.

It's perfectly acceptable to not "agree" with something with regards to your own personal life, but to support others who do "agree" with it.

I am not even going to prentend to claim that i'm wise enough for MY views to be the views that everyone should or does hold.

Choice means chosing what is right for YOU, and allowing others to choose what is right for THEMSELVES.

:)

[lynndew2]

19. Well said Heddi N/T

[yellowdog]

18. I think so, Kentuck.

I hate the idea of abortion, but I know I have no right to make another person's decisions.

[bpilgrim]

20. as a government employee it is... well if you intend to uphold the LAW

of the LAND... as D. Kucinich has pledge.

And I TRUST HIM much more than i trust any reTHUG :puke:

:hi:

peace

[papau]

22. Yes - that is where I and everyone I know is at n/t

n/t

[alaine]

30. I agree, the false dichotomy of pro-life/pro-choice was

set up by the right, the real terms if they were opposites should be pro-choice/ anti-choice, or pro-life/ pro-death.

I don't know how it is that they always end up getting to define the terms. We're all also un-patriotic for opposing the war, and we're all traitors too.

This society has a long way to go to reduce abortion. As it stands now this culture doesn't give two shits about children, especially children of the poor, as evidenced by Bush's recent tax cut. Abortion is not an issue for well off women who could usually find a doctor to perform one for the right amount of money, before abortion was legal. With inflation the way it is more and more middle class women are having to work to afford the mortgage and car payments, etc, that used to be covered by one paycheck. Working class and minority women have pretty much always worked to help support the family.

I think a great way to start would be to give women automatic salaries for childbearing, at least for the first five years of the child's life, before school. (When the child is in school then the mother can return to work.) Not just welfare for the indigent, but for all women, to guarantee every child food clothing and shelter, without the woman having to prostitute herself in what may be an unhealthy relationship in order for her and her children to be able to eat. A healthy safe environment that for every child that shows that our government recognizes children for what they are, our greatest national resource, and then, and only then, we'll talk about reducing the number of abortions or questioning women's motivations for having them. It is sick and perverted to make a child's welfare dependent on the health of a woman's relationship with her spouse, which she and the child have little control over.

Anyone who is questioning the need for this should look at what is happening in Europe, where countries are coming up with all kinds of incentives to encourage women to bear children, because, surprise, when given the choice, many women are opting out and many european populations are in sharp decline.

[Dob Bole]

23. Quite Frankly, this is my position....

I believe that abortion is wrong in some cases. But how does the law stop that? What do we do when the government begins differentiating between cookie-cutter instances of "right" and "wrong" abortions and puts mothers in jail?
I am pro-life. I myself would not recommend anyone to have an abortion. However, I am pro-choice-not in favor of jailtime for visiting an abortion clinic. That sums it up for me.

Dob Bole

[LWolf]

24. Yes. I am.

It all depends on your definitions. Mine:

"Pro-life:" respect for all life. No unnecessary destruction or injury.

"Pro-choice:" The right to make private choices about your life, and be in control of your own life, in all areas, not just reproductive. Ideally, the goal would be to make responsible choices.

[Booberdawg]

25. I am "pro choice" and against abortion

and I can back it up with my own actions. When faced with an unwanted pregnancy at age 23 my initial reaction was to schedule an abortion. To make a long story short, my thoughts evolved into feeling that the "inconvenience" of motherhood, the bad timing, and being single were not just good reasons to have an abortion. I don't approve of the way abortion is used as a method of birth control after the fact of just being careless.

However, I don't feel the government should be able to mandate the decision, whether it is right or wrong. It's a violation of a woman's guaranteed right to privacy. Even if it's for the wrong reasons.

I decided I could not go through with the abortion and still be able to look at myself in the mirror for the rest of my life. I knew I would regret having an abortion for what my conscience told me were the wrong reasons. I had a bouncing baby boy in 1979 and never a single regret. He was the best thing that has happened to me and he taught about me the most important things in life.

As fate would have it, he was to be my only child. I lost him 5 years ago to a tragic accident. Sure, losing him was the most devastating, grueling, and life altering event in my life. I will never be the same again, and nothing can possibly meet or exceed that level of pain and heartbreak again. But I'm so much richer for having the years with him that I did. I wouldn't have learned many of the most important lessons in my life without him.

[Robin Hood]

26. I am pro-life regarding death penalty. Pro-choice on abortion.

[Ohio Dem]

27. Of course.

I'm not in favor of my offspring being aborted. I don't think it's right.

But if someone else does it, it's none of my goddamned business.

That's what "pro-choice" means. In favor of choice. Just because abortion isn't the choice I would make doesn't make it unchoosable.

[SharonAnn]

28. Of course one can be both, only Republicans are so simple-

minded that they think it's a dichotomy. Many think the law should stay as it is, even if they don't believe in abortion for themselves.

OTOH, a lot of people are anti-choice until they, their wife/girlfriend, daughter, granddaughter, daughter of a friend need to make a decision. Then, they think a safe and legal abortion should be an option.

[TahitiNut]

29. Apparently some believe that the Universal Moral Authority ...

... is in dire need of their help, and the help of laws, police, courts, and state and social coercion. I don't really know why they think the Universal Moral Authority is so weak that It cannot inform the hearts of men and women on Its own. Perhaps its because their experience has been that the Universal Moral Authority isn't able to reliably guide their behavior? Is it experience? I guess if they're corrupted themselves, they might think even "lesser" folk are also beyond Salvation without the threat of police powers? :eyes:

[Tinoire]

31. Yes. That's me to a T

And it doesn't, it shouldn't!

It is the Right that makes this a divisive issue in both parties.

Why does the Left play that game? Why does the Left not turn the tables and make the Death Penalty- something 100 times more cruel- the issue?

Choice. A personal choice made necessary because of the horrible, uncaring society in which we live.

For all this HOLLOW talk of choice, so many women don't even have a real choice! How many poor women with 3 kids, barely scraping by on pennies, can even afford to keep an extra child- no matter how badly they may want to?

If Dems are so concerned about choice, then let's push for free child-care! Free medical care for children! Let's give women a REAL choice and then let them alone to make it in private.


Peace :)

[MojoKrunch]

34. No, because the issue is the law.

Not personal feelings about abortion.
As others have indicated, one can be against abortion or ambivalent about abortion(is anyone really *pro* abortion?) but the only real difference between being Pro-Choice and being Pro-Life is one of law.
Pro-Life wants to make abortion illegal.
Pro-Choice wants to keep abortion safe and legal.

Everything else is personal philosophy.

So if you want to keep the right to abort safe and legal, then you are Pro-Choice, regardless of your personal/theological beliefs.

If you want to make abortion illegal, regardless of your personal/theological beliefs, then you are Pro-Life.

//Is it possible to believe that abortion is wrong but that your religious beliefs cannot supersede the rights of individuals to make the choice as guaranteed by the rights in our Constitution?//
Yes.
And this is where most of America stands.

//Can one be pro-life and totally against abortion but still believe in guaranteed individual rights?//
No, because the *point* of the Pro-Life movement is to make abortion illegal, to repeal Roe.

//Why does one have to believe that the two beliefs cannot coexist?//
Because you can't have something be both legal and illegal at the same time.

//Therefore, if you believe that abortion is wrong, then it follows that you must believe that women do not have individual rights guaranteed by the Constitution?//
No.
If you believe that abortion is wrong *for other women*, then this is true.
There is nothing illogical about believing abortion wrong but believing that it must remain safe and legal for those women who chose it.

I've always questioned the courage of the convictions of Pro-Lifers who claim to see prenates as *persons* but do little or nothing to stop what, as far as they are concerned, are a million murders a year.

The psychopathic Pro-Lifers who bomb and kill are at least *true to their beliefs*.

//Why does it have to be one or the other?//
Why cannot one be pro-life and pro-choice?//
For the same reason you can't have black white.
Abortion is either legal or illegal.
You can't have both.

Mojo

[rusk2003]

35. Well Yes my Grandmother is

She belevies it is wrong but God gave us free will and couples can make up their own mind and their don't need the government to meddle in their personal lives . Iam Pro chioce I think couples and single women should be well informed and then make a educated decison based on their situation it may be a sin but the bottom line is. The Bill Of RIGHTs only gives rights to people who are born not waiting to be born they are not yet citizens or residents of America. I would proberly only want an abortion if my child was going to be mentally challanged or serverly physically challanged or the mother's life was in danger. I can see women wanting to have them in cases of rape,insect, or orther reasons.

[diamondsoul]

37. Among circles where te topic is regularly debated,

we call that "Personally Pro-life and Politically Pro-choice", and LOTS of people are like that, including me.

[Shanty Oilish]

38. Can one have a right to do wrong?

I suppose if you distort the meanings of "right" and "wrong" you can find a way to accept that abortion is wrong but ok.
But why strain? Why call it wrong if there is no consequence or practical effect to wrong, except to be permitted?
Respectfully, I think anyone who is pro-choice and pro-life, as you have stated it, needs to do some more reflection.

[kentuck]

42. Is it really a "distortion" ?

Or is it right or wrong as dictated by our religious beliefs? Is it the religious aspect that permits us to pass judgement on others to tell them they are "wrong", rather than leave individual choices up to that person? And who is so righteous that they can demand that a woman do as they say because it is the "right" thing to do per their religious belief? Where are the origins of "right" and "wrong" ?

[Shanty Oilish]

45. Right and wrong are concepts.

To hold a concept in mind, is to believe.
I can't speak about the source of your beliefs, whether religious or not, but I think we all recognize the same concepts when we say "right" and "wrong."
But maybe not---if your conclusion that abortion is wrong is a conclusion "dictated" by your religious beliefs. :shrug: You didn't elaborate so I won't speculate.
If one believes that abortion is wrong, is murder, one should not uphold the act as rightful. Nothing malodorously righteous about demanding that murder not occur. On the contrary, endorsing the right to murder is very distorted thinking. Best to go back and reconsider, find out where the contradiction began. Maybe abortion isn't murder. Maybe women don't have rights to determine whether they'll produce children or not. But to say women have the right to murder---there's an error in there someplace, I assure you.

[kentuck]

46. Similarly, if one "believes" that capital punishment is murder...

"If one believes that abortion is wrong, is murder, one should not uphold the act as rightful."

Perhaps it is not a "property" right, as property might be defined under other conditions of our laws, but a woman's body has been determined to be her own - at least under the laws of our land. To disagree is to disagree with the law. The law is not perfect, as we know from our history.

But if some believe a concept to be one thing and others believe it to be something else, whose side is right and whose side is wrong? We can unanimously agree that shooting someone in cold blood is murder. However, we cannot reach that "unanimous" decision in regards to the issue of abortion. Because we have another human involved, the woman, and through the deepest studies - so long as there is division on the topic - we have no choice but to permit the woman control over her own body, as per the law and our Constitution.

The concept itself has not been thoroughly defined so as to reach a satisfactory verdict. I may think abortion is wrong, even murder, but many do not agree with me. Therefore, this would be a case where we would have to separate government and religion. That is why we have a law giving the woman the right to an abortion if that is something she so chooses. That is the origin of "pro-choice".

[Kanola]

41. I am pro choice yet do not like abortions

I think there is this overriding fallacy out there with anti abortion groups that pro choicers think that every female teenager has to have an abortion as a rite of passage. (Intended sarcasm). That is such a load of bull. I personally made a difficult choice when I was young and do not regret it, nor have any fetus nightmares.

I am a Social Worker in California and have seen many unwanted children being passed by for adoption or Legal Guardianship in our state. These children are going from foster home to foster home due to behavioral problems such as being born positive to drugs, and being removed from a chaotic family. My question to "pro-lifers" has always been, how come you only fight for the fetuses but not the unwanted children who are living and abused in our country? Until they take a household of abused, drug addicted children and are aware of the hell that these kids go through can they even justify an attempt of an argument for fetuses rights. Screw them.