I'm sorry - but this is disgusting behavior

[DancingBear]

Yes, I lived through Reagan. Yes, I despised him with every bone in my body. Yes, I know of Iran Contra, of air traffic controllers, of lack of AIDS research.

I know it all. And I know too of the glee shown by those on the other side when Wellstone died, and how we all here condemned it.

And now this crap.

From us.

From people who should know better. From people who someone think a giant "fuck off" makes the world right again.

I am beyond disgusted with you. The man is dead - leave him there.

Argue his disgusting politics all you want - I'll be front and center with you, every step of the way. Argue his ruination of this country - I'll be there. Argue that he is the spawn of the bastard that now squats in the White House - you'll get no argument from me.

Just be sure and put on your suit of outrage when someone on our side dies.

It's hanging in the closet, just to the left of your hypocrisy sport coat.

[terrya]

1. Total agreement. Thank you. eom

[Dookus]

2. agreed

last night I got into it with a bunch of casket-crappers who think that unless you're willing to sodomize his corpse with a splintered broomstick, you're not a good liberal.

I have no use for a liberalism based on hate.

[terrya]

9. God help us if we become the Ann Coulters and Sean Hannitys of the world

We can fight back and we can stand our ground. But I don't want to hate. As a gay man, I can get that myself in this country.

[Arkana]

93. Personally

I had no love for President Raygun. I disagreed with pretty much all his policies. I thought his wife was evil and that he was an idiot.

But I won't celebrate his death. That's just wrong, and it's something freepers do, not DUers.

[Momof1]

3. totally agree n/t

[LandOLincoln]

4. Thanks, Dancing Bear, you've articulated my feelings

admirably.

and as I just posted on another board:

"One thing you've got to say for the Reagans: they hate the Bushes with a passion.

And anyone who can raise a son like Ron Jr. can't be entirely bad.

BTW, in the same CNN interview last spring during which Ron Jr. snarled that his father was a man (unlike Dubya, he meant) and Gee Dubya wasn't fit to carry his gym socks, he also suggested that his father was in the early stages of Alzheimer's when he was president, and was unaware of some of the more egregious policies and practices of his supposed underlings.

The rationalizations of a loving, loyal son who is also a self-described Progressive, or the truth (as some suspected at the time)? Or some of both?"

[juajen]

87. I think it's the truth

I see sincerity and idealism in the Reagan's eyes. I think they were manipulated and idealistic, but not criminals. I also always saw a great love of country there. Disagreement with his administration did not prevent me from liking both of them, or from being horrified by the attempted assassination and gratified at the dignity they both showed during this horrible time. I have no problem at all in mourning his death and celebrating his strengths as the 40th President of the United States.

[Zinfandel]

106. People want and need to be informed of the facts, not the bullshit!!!

that they are being fed on television...Reagan was a ultra- right-wing, lying, anti-choice, environmentally destructive, union bashing, poor hating, de-regulating corporatism loving, imperialistic old fool. (And I'm being gentle here, because he died).

Being informed and getting the TRUTH is what this DU forum is suppose to be about...

Surely not sentimentality.

[LittleApple81]

5. Amen. Everybody has spouted so much since yesterday, the

best thing we can do now is keep silence. That would take care of two things: you can show respect for the family of an old man who died and you can keep quiet to show you don't have much good to say.

[spotbird]

6. Much of the worst stuff is the trolls.

They have to make us look bad.

Use the ignore, I have closed around 50 threads already.

[Walt Starr]

7. Republican deaths lost the right to respect from the left

after the way the GOP politicized Wellstone's death.

[LandOLincoln]

13. So we should turn around and do the same thing?

Grow up, Walt.

[Walt Starr]

18. If 2000 taught me anything

YES, we turn around and pull the same shit.

Trying to take the high road has got us one thing. FUCKED!

[sandnsea]

23. Pick your battles

This isn't one of them. The guy's dead. Let it go. Doesn't need to affect you one way or the other.

[Walt Starr]

30. No, I am not letting it fucking go!

I am going to barbeque a pork roast and drink a bottle of wine and fucking celebrate!

I've waited a lonnnng time for this. I may even run out and get a bottle of Dom!

[Endangered Specie]

45. I'll bet a number of freepers have done that at the death of a democrat.

Go join them, youd fit right in.

[Walt Starr]

51. Hey, THEY FUCKING DROVE ME TO THIS!

They pulled this shit when Wellstone died, so now that the evil fuck is gone, I'll take my turn thankyouverymuch!

[Endangered Specie]

54. Are you so insecure that because freepers did something...

your going to go out and do the same?

Dont ever say your better than them.

A liberal is supposed to be compassionate, you are no liberal.

[Walt Starr]

56. Taking the high road with these evil fucks has resulted in

them having TOTAL FUCKING CONTROL OF EVERYTHING!!!

FUCK TAKING THE HIGH ROAD!

[Forkboy]

59. Fuckin Plastic Man would have a hard time

petting his back more than some people here today.

Dont let the fuckers guilt trip you Walt.

[Walt Starr]

61. Nope, don't worry about it, I'm about to turn off the computer

and light up the barbeque!

[Endangered Specie]

70. BBQ? THATS CANNABALISM!

[Walt Starr]

111. No,

BBQ is me being carniverous.

It was damn good pork, too! Had to roast some pork in honor of the biggest pork spender in U.S. history.

[sleepystudent]

77. How about...

turning off the computer( good advice for many on here) and starting to grow up?

[Walt Starr]

113. I grew up a long time ago

Reagan became president after I grew up.

The barbeque and wine were excellent.

[Carolina]

102. I hear ya, Walt

fuckin sick and tired of being so nice while they are so habitually nasty and still successful.

And as for the freeps, the Rushbots, the FOXers: who cares what they think! They demonize us in every way, every day not matter what we do, no matter what we say. So here's some ammo. I loathed Reagan in life and could give a rip that he's gone.

[JerseygirlCT]

88. Honestly, if the only way we win is that we become them

count me out.

He's dead.

I feel terribly for his family. He died a terrible death -- I'd wish that on no one, not even him.

Let's spend the energy calmly refuting the barrage of "wasn't he just wonderful" crap that's going to be around now -- intelligently, logically, and without resorting to childishness.

[Leprechan29]

24. That sounds like

The justification being used for the Prisoner Scandal in Iraq: "Hey, at least I'm not Saddam Hussein". People do not forfeit their right to respect when they die merely because they have a certain political affiliation, or belief. Each and every one of us, short of the genocidal maniacs deserves a moment of peace surrounding our lives when it finally end - no one can take that away. Not even the Republicans after Wellstone's death, and not even those who would now attack the character of Regan himself.

p.s. - I speak not of his political ideals - attack them all you want - but leave the man in peace.

[Walt Starr]

57. Fuck leaving the man in peace

He fucked over and killed so many people he deserves MY FUCKING SCORN!

[Leprechan29]

112. The man was just any other -

He had a personal side to him, just as even conservatives today do. Why should we hate the man - It merely turns away attention from his policies, which were admittedly so-so at best; This is from my view, and I'm excluding Iran-Contra because I have not studied/researched it enough to pass judgment on it, and I waver between Reagan being mostly responsible, and him being under the influence of Alzheimer's

edit: spelling

[markses]

8. Let's be honest

Some people here are acting in a less than honorable manner with respect to Reagan's death. For whatever reason. Many even.

And many are acting honorably, but there are no outraged threads about them. So let's be honest, and say opinions differ, and not pretend that everyone on this board is behaving the same way.

[DancingBear]

15. True - I will qualify

by saying "some." Many folks are behaving like DU folks do - I commend them.

[blm]

10. Thankyou.

Compassion should come more easily to us.

The right failed that test of humanity when Wellstone died. We should lead by example, not follow the foottsteps of hate and inhumanity.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

11. Amen

The DU Ghouls are out in force today, sadly.

DTH

[Deja Q]

12. Fair enough. Now look at it from another angle:

When can I get out my "Reagan's dead, get over it" bumper sticker to counteract the despicable "Wellstone's dead, get over it" bumper stickers I'd seen?

[scarletwoman]

31. Well, I get what you're saying. But the answer to your question has to be

"Never."

Either we model the way we want the world to be -- enlightened, compassionate, inclusive, peacable -- or we succumb to the same toxic brutishness of the other side and perpetuate the downward spiral of incivility. What would that gain us?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." -- Gandhi

sw

[Deja Q]

69. True peace begins with understanding and equality...

So when the repukes start a real civil war, complete with weapons, we should just sit back, wearing our little halos, and let them slaughter us?

If they want to be bastards, fine. We then need to do the same back to them, telling them this is how it feels like in the process. Otherwise they won't learn anything and we'll NEVER have peace.

They're callous toward Wellstone and his supporters.

If we do the opposite behavior to Reagan and his supporters, we'll just be seen as capitulators or collaborators seen as acknowledging "what a great man Reagan was". :eyes:

Screw that.

They've always pulled the punches. But they don't know what it feels like to be punched - and we also allow them to continue punching. Is this the way to improve the world?! Let's punch back and maybe after that we can have true peace and cooperation?

Oh yeah. I'm sure Ghandi knew the neo-cons firsthand. And would he still be the same if the neo-cons invaded his country?

[scarletwoman]

97. Wow. From bumper stickers to civil war...

You asked a question, I offered an answer. You don't agree with my answer, fine.

As a lifelong leftist/progressive/liberal, I hold to my principles precisely because I believe they represent a more evolved way of living than the path of hatred, division and violence espoused by the right wingers.

I believe that anger blinds reason, and is toxic to the one who holds that anger. I believe that the way to counter negative energy is to cultivate positive energy -- instead of simply adding to the sum total of negative energy by indulging our lower natures.

As for Gandhi, he was up against the entire British Empire, colonialists who were very much a similar species to the neocons. Gandhi succeeded.

Peace,
sw

[parasim]

48. Sure, we can hate just as much as they can...

But why stop with just matching their hatred, why not try trumping their hatred? Why not a bumper sticker that says "I'm glad Reagan's dead. Get over it." or something? That's even more despicable, isn't it?. That'll show 'em.

[Deja Q]

62. Do unto others...

They're doing how they wanted to be treated in return. So why not make them feel what it feels like when they do it to us? Maybe they'll learn.

You can put the "I'm glad" part on your sticker. Mine stays the same.

[parasim]

74. I was being sarcastic...

So, no, I won't be having any such sticker.

The thing is, I really don't think they will learn. Matching their hatred will only make them more entrenched in their ways.

[Cleita]

14. Hmmm. Too bad you reminded me about Wellstone.

If the funeral ends up being a RNC rally, like Wellstone's memorial became a DNC rally, we really must remind them about Wellstone, IMHO.

[Deja Q]

19. Completely, utterly, and entirely right.

They will try to do the thing they accused Dems (specifically Rick Kahn) of: Politicizing the event.

Now, will the Dems actually grow a backbone by then? I sincerely hope so.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. I Seriously Doubt It Will Be Anything Like a Rally

And I seriously doubt that any Democratic notables will be booed. Because quite frankly, I don't think the Republicans will be stupid enough to repeat that mistake.

DTH

[salin]

46. You think?

I think they are so arrogant, and so used to uneven media treatment (and silencing of democratic critics) that no such "screen" (as in, making mental decisions) will go up to prevent it from becoming a rally. Also don't think the desperate souls at the top of the campaign(s) will see it as anything but a plank to try to bring back popularity for Bushjr by attempting to tie him to the Reagan legacy.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

47. I Really Doubt It, S

The ramifications of the Wellstone event are directly responsible for Coleman getting into the Senate. I am pretty sure the Republicans took notice of this. And after all, they are also experts at exploiting phony civility, courtesy and decorum for their own ends.

DTH

[salin]

60. I hear you... but haven't really seen them exercise a whole lot of

restraint. Heck, Cheney still goes on and on about WMDs and Alqeada ties to Saddam - and he knows it isn't true - and he should know that this is part of what keeps eating away at their credibility ratings with the center voters. But still - pandering to the base - he continues.

These are the folks who stage "Victory" and an end to major combat in Iraq more than a year prematurely (and then cravenly claimed that it was the seamen's idea to put up the banner...)

Care to make a wager on this? Imo, it could go either way - but I would be as surprised as you with the outcome going the way you predict.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

63. I'll Bet You Drinks the Next Time We See Each Other

:-)

D

[salin]

71. Deal!

:D

[salin]

42. agreed - when it happens - but pre-emptive strikes

at this moment - are just as ugly from our side as they were when they were lavished upon Wellstone and those of us who respected and supported him.

[Career Prole]

16. I'm not gleeful. I'm not sad. It's just another day in America.

If it's sympathy I'm expected to show, I won't...people die every day unremarked.
My sympathies are fully engaged right now for the families of people dying many years short of the age of 93, American and Iraqi alike.

[Darth_Kitten]

25. I'm not gleeful........but I understand that people.....

let off steam in different ways, and all the more power to them. Lots of emotion and strong feelings here and better to express them and deal with them than keep them bottled up. :hi:

I can be a liberal and be flip about things or I can be quite serious. :)

[Career Prole]

33. Flip is nice...and so is serious (when appropriate! ;-))

Your bouncing mouse made me laugh right out loud, however...so maybe it's not "just another day in America" after all! Thanks, DK! :hi:

[Career Prole]

50. The subject line on my last reply made it sound like I'm serious today.

I'm not. I'm flippin'! :bounce:

[bluestateguy]

17. There's really no point in making hateful remarks. I agree.

He has not done any harm to this nation in 15 years and celebrating the deaths of our political opponents is the kind of thing that is found in third world dictatorships.

[Carolina]

104. no harm in 15 years, really?

I daresay we live with the horror of his LEGACY daily. The thieves currently in charge either got their start or honed their skills in his administrations. Osama and Saddam ... think back to the 80s. Too much history to recount here and the martinis are starting to make it hard to type. But suffice it to say: he did harm and his harm lives on!

[jeanmarc]

20. Sorry, I left my tissues at the door

Reagan deserves a great deal of this. It's not disgusting at all. I gave him about 1 hour of nonposting, and now we will read about the real Reagan. Not many will cover that during this long funeral month.

[kaitykaity]

21. If you don't like those threads,

hide them. It's very easy. See that little box?
Click on it. It works really, really well.

[PVnRT]

28. Nothing more American

than telling people what they can and cannot see, and what they can and cannot comment on.

[kaitykaity]

34. wtf?

I didn't tell anybody anything. This person is saying
what I shouldn't say.

:wtf:

[PVnRT]

39. And you're telling them what they shouldn't see

:wtf: yourself

[kaitykaity]

43. No I'm not.

If you don't like a thread, DON'T CLICK ON IT.

HIDE IT.

Your choice.

It's very freeing not to try to tell people what they
can say or what they can't see.

You're reading something into what I said that isn't
there.

STOP IT.

[Ripley]

49. I don't mean to laugh at yall...

but my, my, people sure are all worked up into a lather with Reagan dead.

I understand what you were saying...just telling someone how to avoid seeing the titles if they don't like them. That's not censorship...it's consensual self-censorship!

[Forkboy]

37. nothing more American

than not having a clue either :eyes:

[PVnRT]

41. Wow, that was almost a good comeback

Whatever

[Forkboy]

52. Like,whatever dude

tubular man.

[k in IA]

26. Agreed.

[bhunt70]

27. It's hanging in the closet, just to the left of your hypocrisy sport coat.

classic...I like that

[mike1963]

29. I'm sorry, I do not understand the mindset that confers sainthood on

an asshole just when he croaks. We seem to have selective approaches to this - did Hitler reclaim integrity and honor after he offed himself?
Becoming dead (as we all do eventually) doesn't change what we did.
"Don't speak ill of the dead" is oddly a commonly accepted commandment, but why should it be? Maybe some people believe that the cessation of life somehow automatically confers goodness on the newly departed?...well I say that's bullshit. The measure of one's decency is not contingent on his or hers ability to respire.
Bah.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

35. NO ONE Is Claiming He's a Saint

But the large number of celebratory, ghoulish and crass comments are in incredibly bad taste, and they reflect very poorly on the commenters.

Yes, it's the Internet, and yes, any moron with a keyboard and a connection can spout off any stupid bullshit that they want. It's really easy to be brave when you're anonymous. And I'm sure there will be more than one paean to freedom of speech and expression resulting from all of this. Well that's fine. But I retain the freedom of speech and expression to say that people who are acting celebratory, ghoulish and crass about this are first-rate assholes.

DTH

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. How is demonstrating decency (which reflects on you) conferring sainthood

(which reflects on him)? Just asking.

[Carolina]

103. thank you, thank you, thank you

respiration does not confer humanity. When I think of the breathing Reagan, the man in the oval office acting out the role of his life, his humanity -- that quality now suddenly swelled by the fact that he is now deceased -- does not stand out.

Bah humbug, my dog has more decency.

[lostnfound]

32. Well put. And I add..'Judge not lest ye be the hateful demon..

that keeps the circle of hate rolling'.

We cannot know a man's heart. His actions, his words. But we don't know what he was borne into...his childhood or anything else.

'Judge not lest ye waste your time playing god'..

[Endangered Specie]

36. *applause*

very well done.

[salin]

40. Josh Marshall had an appropriate post

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003041.php

Plenty of other time for critiques and more of his presidency, policies and legacy.

Plenty of time to thwart off the hero worship/politicization - with comparisons of media criticism to the Wellstone Memorial.

But, imo, now is not that time.

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. Perfect, Josh Marshall!

He's exactly right. Give it a few weeks, a month and then throw the crap. The day of his death is unseemly.

[Snoggera]

44. There is a difference between glee

and thankful acceptance.

For those who can't see the difference, I feel compassionate liberalism for them.

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Thank You, Dancing Bear.

I agree. The day of his death is not the day to be doing this.

[Malva Zebrina]

58. I have been accused of disgusting behavior for the most part of my life

and I have to say that those who do so and have done so are the goody two shoes who prefer to police the thoughts of others andhave nothing of value to say other than to try to take the attention to themselves in an appeal to those who do not have a single opinion out of fear that they will be criticized as having "disgusting behavior" LOL

There is always someone who takes this tack, rather than positing some opinion on the issue. For what reason should be obvious

[DancingBear]

68. Is this directed at me?

If so, could you clarify please - I am unsure of your meaning here.

[Malva Zebrina]

99. nothing personal

the point is that we express our own reality

and it is not disgusting if we express our reality re the death of a 93 year old man whose policies we cannot see as beneficial.

He lived to be 93 years old. He was not by any reasonable means, gypped out of anything in his life. He had every means to make the last years of his life as comfortable as was possible, in his own home. something many poor and even middle class people cannot ever do or hope to do. He was pampered in the last days of his life in his own bed simply because he could afford to be so.

His policies, as president, were no outstanding. We need not adore him for anything at all he did while president.

[thinkingwoman]

64. And another AMEN

well said.

[Q]

65. Republicans CELEBRATED when John, Robert Kennedy...

...and King were murdered. They jumped for joy when Wellstone died. Who cares what they think?

[Kahuna]

66. My take; Reagan died a long time ago. Today it's official...

nt

[jpgray]

67. If being decent restricts me in criticizing his craven policies

Then I absolutely refuse to be decent. The man may have been personable, but he was a wretch, and he destroyed so many lives I doubt a dozen Vietnam memorials would be enough to contain the names.

[GoneOffShore]

75. An eloquent epitaph

to a man who, at best, was only playing a part. If there is a hell, that excuse will not get him off the gridiron.

[NV1962]

72. You're letting aesthetics get in the way of ethics

It may perhaps look distasteful to you, but I have my own hierarchy of values, which in this case differs greatly from yours.

I'm totally with mopaul 's sentiment here.

There's no point in retrofitting hatred of George W's crimes on the dead guy, and comparisons without historic context go nowhere either, but the sum-bitch at the center of the news today represents a destructive turn for the worse in this country. The wave that carried him into the WH swept a lethal diet of simpleton nationalism, intellectual dishonesty, and moral corruption into politics that not only have tainted political discourse beyond repair, but also made figures such as Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Robertson, and eventually even the neocon cabal somehow "respectable" enough to be considered "mainstream."

It made formerly revolting agendas such as blaming "welfare queens" acceptable, and "mainstreamed" it into a stunningly broad segment of blue-collar people. It championed Lumpenproletariat values that primed the stage for an utter simian like George W Bush.

I detest everything that the dead Alzheimer patient stood for, and I'm certainly not going to hide my satisfaction that he's gone forever. Think what you will of it, but I wish the patriarch of ethical misery in government had died much earlier.

That's why I celebrate the demise of a major symbol of rabid, autistic and arrogant stupidity at the helm of a country - and I make neither apologies nor excuses for it.

And I'll add to that the following: it's about effing time people learn to differentiate between protocollary courtesy and political honesty. One thing is to acknowledge the death of a former President of the United States of America and ceremonially dignify that former holder of that representative high office, another is to betray the values and vision one has for a country by granting "honor" to an utmost dishonorable person.

I accept and respect the process and protocol of a state funeral that many see fit for the deceased, but I wholeheartedly despise the person buried.

As I said, I am completely unapologetic for that; if you're truly looking for an ethical angle here, consider it my denial of forgiveness for a soul who hasn't been apologetic for his sins and high crimes during his lifetime. Unrepentant criminals deserve only penance - not misunderstood compassion. But I do commiserate those in hell with their newly arrived companion for eternal posterity.

My contempt for his persona is just that deep.

[Neecy]

83. well said, NV1962

If the country that elected him twice wants to mourn him, they're free to do so.

For those who suffered under his regime, we should be also be free to refute the false sainthood that's being heaped upon this monster. It was hardly 'morning in America' for millions of our fellow citizens, and I refuse to make a peace offering on the day of his death.

[DancingBear]

84. You're reading too much into my post

I make no pleas for courtesy of protocol nor the injection of ethics.

I merely state that much of the behavior exhibited here reeks of something one would see on Free Republic. I find no one on this board making apologies for Reagan or his behavior - far from it. He was, up until Bush 2, the worst President I had ever seen, and I'm 50 years old, Yes, worse than Nixon w/regard with how he left this country.

This, however, does not equate to a demonstrative show of glee upon his death, nor does it equate to the wholly misguided view by many that by not dancing on his grave we are showing some type of compassion. How do you possibly think we are granting honor to him? Please reread my post and find me ANY example of either of the aforementioned emotions.

He is a man that deserves to be hated for what he did - but celebration brings with it it's own set of stereotypes, and they're not the ones I find attractive.

[NV1962]

98. Since you insist...

Highligted in bold, commented below:

• Yes, I lived through Reagan. Yes, I despised him with every bone in my body. Yes, I know of Iran Contra, of air traffic controllers, of lack of AIDS research.
  
  I know it all. And I know too of the glee shown by those on the other side when Wellstone died, and how we all here condemned it.
  
  And now this crap.
  
  From us.
  
  From people who should know better. From people who someone think a giant "fuck off" makes the world right again.
  
  I am beyond disgusted with you. The man is dead - leave him there.
  
  Argue his disgusting politics all you want - I'll be front and center with you, every step of the way. Argue his ruination of this country - I'll be there. Argue that he is the spawn of the bastard that now squats in the White House - you'll get no argument from me.
  
  Just be sure and put on your suit of outrage when someone on our side dies.
  
  It's hanging in the closet, just to the left of your hypocrisy sport coat.

Ok, let's go:

- I know it all: obviously a manner of speech, but you do ralize that that choice of words comes across as patronizing, no?
- the glee shown by those on the other side: why I should care about them? Better yet: does it make sense to advocate for blind symmetry when making value judgements on behavior of others regardless (!) of intent, context and motivation?
- we all here condemned it: oh, did "we" - all of us really? FYI, I was shrugging at the sight of the predictably obvious. Am I a degenerate or otherwise unworthy of being part of "we all" for that reason?
- this crap. From us: mind if I point out your use of "crap" right after your critical mention of "glee"? Moreover: are "we" really to self-consciously behave in a manner that is beyond scrutiny? We must "fight clean" in all and any circumstance?
- people who should know better: would that be because those people really know better (i.e., you singlehandedly divine their hipocrisy because you really know them!) or because it's more fashionable / desirable in an inherently partisan context to portray "them" as better, as it behooves the "real" teamplayers?
- people who someone think a giant "fuck off" makes the world right again: Uhhhh... Either "people" do know better (and therefore don't believe that the world is righted with some major bird flipping) or they're misguided in their belief that an enormous middle finger fixes this planet - but then they don't really know "better" do they? So which is it?
- I am beyond disgusted with you: that's your respectable opinion of course, but if you're really feeling that much contempt in response to behavior that is apparently unacceptable to you, the "symmetry criterion" I highlighted earlier makes "us" automatically immune to your opinion... N'este-ce pas?
- your hypocrisy: this is actually the whole core of your position. You imply that "we all" really do know better, and that therefore "we all" are deliberately betraying our better judgement, and hence deserve your utmost contempt (and beyond...) Well, that looks suspiciously like claiming the ability to read the hearts and minds of "all" people on a message board like this one. That being the case, one might call that arrogance.

However, I saved the best for last, taken from your reply above:
- I merely state that much of the behavior exhibited here reeks of something one would see on Free Republic: no Sir! (please read that as a gender-neutral address...) You didn't "merely" hold up a mirror, alledgedly showing similarity, what you did was state that "we all" know better than to betray "our" convictions, which you "know" well enough to identify a "contradiction." One, I believe that's arrogance revisited, and two: you're projecting ethics.

I'm not very much convinced that you know me well enough - I very much doubt you know "all of us" here to the point of being able to correctly identify "hypocrisy" whenever you see it. In "all of us" no less.

Dancing Bear, I probably could have cut to the chase much earlier here, by simply stating: "thanks for your critique of "all our" behavior but I disagree: expressing that utterly despicable people are utterly despicable is a form of ethical honesty." But if I'd say that, I'd also have to address the issue of form versus content - i.e.: the point of determining if and where a "tipping point" exists, between the two oppoising positions of maintaining protocollary "elegance" in the aftermath of news of the death of a morally reprehensible person, and stating that the deceased person is just so morally reprehensible that the "respect" (protocollary elegance) becomes inappropriate / unacceptable / rejected.

But then, this post would've become longish, and... Oh wait.

:P

Let's just agree to disagree: you think it's inappropriate to metaphorically piss on Reagan's dead body, I think I'll go for #2.

[DancingBear]

101. OK - let's do that

Thanks for the critique, BTW - it was fun to read. I never realized I was so logically bankrupt. But, then again, critiquing is an art form if done correctly and downright silly if wrought with perceived "gotchas." N'este-ce pas?

I used to do a lot of that back in college. Long time ago. Early 70's.

I look forward to bumping heads again in the future - figuratively, of course.

I'll be watching out for that suit of outrage, though :) :)

[Carolina]

107. excellent post , NV

I feel exactly as you do; I have just not been able to express it as eloquently. Thanks

[graham67]

73. Thanks DB

Great post.

[Piperay]

76. Agree...

I remember RR well and I couldn't stand him then and I can't stand him now but you will not find me 'dancing on his grave'. R-I-P RR

[OneBlueSky]

78. well said, Dancing Bear . . . our reaction to Reagan's passing . . .

says a whole lot more about us than it does about him . . . I wish him a peaceful rest . . . as I do anyone when they complete their journey . . .

[Individualist]

79. Agree n/t

[stickdog]

80. WWJVD

What would Jesse Ventura do?

[Angelus]

81. Excuse me while I puke...

I'll say whatever the fuck I wanna say about that rotten, no good, son of a bitch Reagan.

Why must we be told what to say??? Geez. :eyes:

[leftofthedial]

82. and near the good for the goose, good for the gander neckties

hypocrisy is pretending to be sad and respectful when you're not.

The guy was an evil force on the earth and a political blight on my beloved nation. I'm glad he's gone. He never paid for his crimes when alive. As an atheist, I believe he is beyond justice now.

[DancingBear]

90. So if Carter were to die soon

and the Freeps expressed your sentiments, you'd raise a glass and shout "well done, lads"?

Oh, and for the record, hypocrisy is condemning an act while partaking in the same.

Lying is pretending to be sad when you're not.

Kind of a difference there.

[leftofthedial]

92. no. as always with the freepers

I'd ignore whatever they are spewing.

Since the neocons and freepers never even pretend to be sad when a progressive dies or is murdered, I have had plenty of occasions to have engaged in hypocrisy by condemning them were I a hypocrite. Since I haven't condemned them, I am not being hypocritical by saying:

:bounce: YIPPEEE! :bounce: YAHOO! :bounce: YES! :bounce:

Another bastard is dead! Check another one off the list!

I'm raising a glass tonight, for sure!

[playahata1]

95. The reason liberals and other progressives are in the hole now

is because they are too damn nice.

Bullies respect only those who stand up to them. Taking the high road has won liberals and other progressives not a damn thing.

Reagan had no respect for people who did not fit into his vision of what being an American should be -- and I am one of those people. I refuse to be a hypocrite and pretend that I have maximum respect for the man. I do not have ANY respect for the man, because he slandered my sisters as being "welfare queens," was an apologist for racists, allowed crack to flow unabated through my community and used the profits to fund death squads in Central America and other regions in which the U.S. was trying to gain a foothold, and treated people with AIDS like pariahs and left them to die horrible deaths.

You holier-than-thous can complain all you want. This is how I feel. This is my opinion. I have every right to express it. Peace.

[Carolina]

108. couldn't agree more

we're nice, they're nasty and they are in charge of everything. Nixon and Reagan spawned the shit we're in now. Their policies, their people, their dirty tricks thrive in the oval office, the halls of congress and on the airwaves today. But we should be nice ...

Not me. I will not feign mourning, I will not confer honor and humanity on this man just because he drew his last breath, and I will not put on some rose colored glasses.

[mzmolly]

85. Absolutely!

:toast:

[RedEarth]

86. I agree 100%..........let's show a little respect

[RapidCreek]

89. Ronal Reagan is not Paul Wellstone....

not even close. Niether is Joe McCarthy, Stalin, Hitler, Limbaugh, Hannity etc. etc. To compare the two men is insulting beyond belief.

RC

[DancingBear]

100. Can you read??

NOBODY compared the two - I was using him as an example, since he is the last person on "our side" to die.

Oh, nice stretch in lumping Limbaugh and Hitler together - does wonders for your credibilty.

[RapidCreek]

109. Got a question for you.

You say "our side". What side would that be? You know, as opposed to "their side"?

In suggesting the death of Paul Wellstone is no different than the death of Ronald Reagan...you are comparing them. You are comparing what they stood for. You are saying there is no difference.

Is there a difference between a person who hates another because the other has stolen from him, his health, his money, his peace of mind and the furture of his family, and a person who hates another because the others skin is brown?

To you evidently believe there is not.

RC

[sendero]

91. I have to agree...

... this is not the time.

[Geo55]

94. Reagan ain't dead only his body is....

The Freeps feed off the hate....
so feed em'.....ramp it up

[_NorCal_D_]

96. Thank you

:thumbsup:

[Zomby Woof]

105. isn't that special?

So while you're feeling all superior and shit to those of us who are just as entitled to our feelings as the apologists... I say...

Reagan is dead, WOOHOO! :D

[Kipepeo]

110. That's funny

because I don't see ANY Reagan apologists around here. In fact, the biggest point see rational people here making is that the most constructive thing to do IS TO POINT OUT HIS FAILINGS instead of posting a sentence or two about how happy you are that he died and blah bla blah...which does nothing but make us *all* look childish and insensitive.

In fact, if you'll reread the original poster's commments you'll see there is no apologist there:

"Argue his disgusting politics all you want - I'll be front and center with you, every step of the way. Argue his ruination of this country - I'll be there. Argue that he is the spawn of the bastard that now squats in the White House - you'll get no argument from me.

Just be sure and put on your suit of outrage when someone on our side dies.

It's hanging in the closet, just to the left of your hypocrisy sport coat."