BBV: Cleveland Plain Dealer: Touch-screen voters should vote absentee

[BevHarris]

I think this is the first time a major newspaper has supported this solution.

http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/1085736821222791.xml

Tom called me while I was in Cleveland (thanks to a local activist, Doreen, who does a dynamite job getting the press on this issue).

We discussed solutions, and he had the guts to get the vote absentee campaign into a major newspaper.

Remember: It is not a total solution. There are significant problems with the chain of custody for absentee ballots; without key auditing procedures(currently not in place!) ballots can be disappeared between the post office and the elections division; if the printer is not trustworthy, the system can also be rigged by ballot substitution after the votes are removed from privacy envelopes, and absentee votes are counted by computers and not by hand. But if your only option is a touch screen with no voter verified paper ballot, and your state allows it, do plan to vote absentee.

Snippets from the article:


Want your vote to count? Skip the polls

"For voters in about 15 counties in Ohio, there could be one sure way to make your voice heard on Election Day in November. Don't go to the polls. Play hooky. Take a little trip to Cleveland. Plan ahead to have yourself marked absent.

..."For some voters this year, absentee voting could become the best way to work the system to guarantee their votes count. Old-fashioned absentee ballots will be the surest way to resolve their concerns about new-fashioned electronic voting. There are good reasons to have concerns, according to many election officials, computer scientists and voting activists across the country.

"Their objections have slowed the rush to electronic voting, but close to 30 percent of the electorate nationally, and about 15 counties in Ohio, still could have e-voting this fall.

..."For concerned voters in those counties, the solution is easy: Get an absentee ballot. Tell the election board you'll be out of town. And to be scrupulously honest about it, come to Cleveland."

[RedEagle]

1. And Get Involved

Vote absentee if you can, then volunteer or become a poll worker.

Become part of the observation crew, beside party reps.

The last thing most election officials want is citizen involvement- so it's the first thing you should do.

They'd rather manage machines that cannot be audited, so they never have to do recounts, than people.

Well, it's time they faced reality- it's our vote and our voting system- not theirs.

It's your piece of democratic government- get on it.

[redqueen]

2. Great posts you two!

Thanks so much for all you do!

Even absentee worries me, since so many people are so poorly trained.

:scared:

[BevHarris]

13. The last thing most election officials want is citizen involvement

That's one of the main roadblocks to paper ballots. People who have gotten used to doing things in private tend to resist open auditing and the accountability that comes with it.

[AP]

3. Most places allow you to walk your absentee ballot right into the

BoE or the polling place on election day.

If you're afraid of the postal service or chain of custody from delivery up to election day, you can remove 95% of those anxieties by walking the ballot to wherever it needs to go at the latest possible (convenient) moment.

At least, everyone in BBV counties should request an absentee ballot and check the rules for returning it.

[BevHarris]

10. Agreed. The only reason I didn't add that important safeguard

was because I'm not yet sure of the rules on this. It would be a shame to have anyone lose their vote because they returned it in person on election day if only mail-in is allowed. Note to myself: Get up to speed on the rules for this.

[Andy_Stephenson]

4. Also educate others...

without a ballot there is no proof. This is a campaign we should all be promoting. I know I do...I did yesterday at the folklife festival here in Seattle.

[Seemann For Congress]

5. Isn't there a case??

Isn't there a case that recently threw ballots out? How risy would this be, if they're setting precedent like this?

By the way, this is my first post here. My name is Ted and I work for the Jeff Seemann For Congress campaign (he says hi).

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. Tell Jeff hi for me

and to keep up the good work.

[BevHarris]

11. That's why checking the rules for ballot return is important

I think it wasn't actually absentee ballots in Maryland. I believe that what happened was that some voters -- over 100 voters, if I recall correctly -- did not want to vote on the touch screens so polling officials gave them absentee ballots. This happened at the polling place. Later, Maryland refused to count these ballots.

I also worry about the use of challenge ballots for those opposed to touch screens. These are not counted until a week or so later, sometimes only if they will "make a difference." The biggest concern I have if a lot of people do challenge ballots is that the election gets called by the media without any representation at all for what's on the challenge ballots. Candidates concede based on projections, and the projections omit challenge ballots altogether.


Bev

[BevHarris]

12. Welcome to DU, Ted and Seemann for Congress

Bev

[newyawker99]

22. Hi Seemann For Congress!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Wapsie B]

6. But are all the absentee votes counted

everywhere in the US? I've been hearing reports of absentee votes in some areas only being counted if the race is close. Just repeating what I've heard.

[AP]

8. I think that's a rumor to discourage absentee voting which is considered

favorable for democrats.

Before BBV, the biggest reason Dems liked absentee voting alot was because it's alwasy the democratic precincts which are crowded and have long lines, and it's more often a democrat who is an hourly employee and can't afford to wait in long lines and is thus discouraged from voting.

Democrats usually encourage absentee voting in order to keep democratic precincts uncrowded and moving quickly on election day.

I've poll watched, and I'm familiar with vote counting in a couple different precincts, and everyone I've seen counts EVERY ballot, including absentee ballots.

I've heard the rumor that absentee ballots are only counted if the closest race on the ballot is closer than the number of absentee ballots, but I've never seen it happen.

[RedEagle]

9. Provisional vs. Absentee

The difference is between provisional ballots vs. absentee.

Then there are differences in state laws.

Absentee means you are registered to vote and just need or want, depending on your state, to vote absentee. Some states require a pretty legitimate reason, others even allow you to do it every time.

Provisional ballots come into play where there is any question about your voter registration. Those ballots require the registration record to be confirmed or cleared up first.

What was discovered after the recall election and some primaries, was that some areas declared they didn't have to count provisional ballots unless the race was close. That requires scrutiny of each states law that most of us don't have time for. Could be the law says they don't have to be counted unless the race is close, could be just local election officials saying that. Always check.

Find out about absentee ballots state by state.

If you can vote absentee, do so instead of voting on DRE's.

As/per a post above, you might consider delivering those ballots by hand to the polls or the county auditor's office. (If you truly can't vote absentee in your state without a really good cause, I think I'd deliver them in person early to the auditor's office. Showing up at the polls with an absentee ballot kind of negates the reasoning.....)

Come to think of it, one of the best ways to help stem the spread of DRE's it for LOTS of people to begin requesting absentee ballots. If election officials are trying to convince counties and states to ante up for those expensive, short-lived systems, (compared to punch cards or optical scan) and they realize people ARE NOT going to use them........hmmmm. Yep, register to vote absentee, then find a way to get those statistics to the county officials who must facilitate the purchase of DREs. If they see a run back to paper, they sure can't justify the expense of paying for vapor ballots.

[BevHarris]

14. Yes. In Ohio, deliver it to the county elections office, not the poll

because you're supposed to have left the county to be eligible for absentee balloting. So drive to the elections office, drop off the ballot, and on election day, put one toe over the county line.

[RedEagle]

16. Check, check, and re-check your State's Election Laws

BBV can't go over each state's election laws with a fine tooth comb.

Make sure if you vote absentee, the vote is not wasted.

It's better then voting on the DRE's but only if you can assure it will be counted.

FYI, I would actually take a look at the state laws myself, knowing how some local election officials interpret- or let the state elections office interpret- those laws for them.

[AP]

18. Many precincts allow you to deliver it the poll on the theory that your...

...plans might have changed.

You requested the ballot anticipating that you'd be out of town. You end up staying in town. Since you've already filled out your ballot, you can just drop it off at the poll.

Theoretically, it's exactly the same thing that you would have filled out if you hadn't even requested the absentee ballot. Only in touch screen jurisdictions would that theory not apply.

[AP]

17. "kind of negates the reasoning"

I'm not sure about that. I think that a poll worker might either enter your votes in a machine at the site or put the ballot in a folder which they'd deliver to the BoE who would then count it and add it to the tally that night.

Either way, they'd still have to keep the ballot as a record. They wouldn't just throw it into the trash. So, in theory, if every voter in a BBV district voted absentee and took the ballot to the polling station on election day, there would be a paper record of every vote which would become part of the record.

And you're totally right. If everyone did vote absentee, you'd be doing what you did before you had BBV, but you'd have added a milion dollar intermediary system nobody was using.

[RedEagle]

19. "kind of negates the reasoning....."

AP, sorry for not making that more clear.

If you are in a state where they are stringent about absentee ballots, only for a good reason, i.e., you cannot vote on that day or get to your poll on time, then it doesn't make sense to drop it off at your poll because obviously you did manage to make it there.

Hope I cleared that up.

Otherwise, absentee away!

May be the best protest to lodge this coming election.

Imagine mass requests for absentee balloting across the country, so that a paper ballot is preserved.

And do make that distinction. The next thing they will push for is Internet voting instead of paper absentee ballots. Ugh.

[AP]

21. But like I said, you're allowed to do it in the places I know about.

You'd be breaking the law if you mailed it in and you were in town that day (or if you requested the ballot KNOWING that you weren't going to be out of town). And this applies in states where you have to swear that you satisfy a requirement that you believe you won't be in town.

Plans change, and you can request a ballot based on tentative plans. If you end up being in town on election day, you can drop it off at the poll.

[BevHarris]

15. And by the way, encouraging absentee votes really pisses off

Mischelle Townsend, of Riverside County California. Which is another good reason to do it.

[Andy_Stephenson]

20. I had an interesting conversation about her last night.

No one in Riverside likes her it seems.

[BevHarris]

23. You're stuck with touch screens in New Mexico

Albuquerque Journal May 31:

Voters Reminded Election Is Electronic

"Don't show up at the polls for Tuesday's primary election expecting to vote on a paper ballot. New Mexico Elections Director Denise Lamb is reminding county clerks that, under state law, people must vote on the machines provided at the polls, unless there are special circumstances.Lamb issued the directive after hearing from a few voters who said they would demand paper ballots at the primary election, apparently because they fear their vote would be tampered with if it were cast on an electronic machine."

"In New Mexico, Lamb said, it has usually been paper ballots— not machines— that have caused problems in past elections."We've been using electronic voting machines in New Mexico for 20 years," she said. "In previous elections, when we've had delays or glitches, they have always involved paper ballots."

"The history of machine voting here isn't flawless.In 2002, Bernalillo County commissioners delayed certifying election results after a 12,000-vote discrepancy was discovered in election totals. A company official from Sequoia Voting Systems, which supplied the machines used in early voting, said a software problem caused the discrepancy, but the outcomes of local races weren't affected.

"The company said at the time that all early votes were tallied, but there was a problem with the software program that generated reports on the results. The company fixed the mistake, and commissioners later certified the results."