Draft Dean for VP

[sjgman9]

<a href="http://draftdeanforvp.org/">Imagine, Dean for VP!</a>

This would provide some much needed energy to the Kerry campaign. OK DUers, what do all of you think of this prospect?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Bad idea...

...and wrong forum (this should probably be posted in the General Discussion: 2004 Election forum).

Dean's a NE moderate. Kerry would fare better by picking someone from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Anyhow, welcome to DU, sjgman9! :hi:

[rwheeler31]

2. Whoa

this will not work. He will have a prominent place in the party.

[Kiliki]

3. No way

Dean would scare off moderate swing voters.

Better Edwards or Clark.

[Cheswick2.0]

4. many of his supporters are moderate swing voters

so what are you basing your opinion on?

[Kiliki]

8. the moderate swingers I know...

err... make that swing voters, I guess "swingers" could give the wrong impression ;)

I know there is debate over whether the press saddled Dean with the leftie image when he is actually more of a centralist or if it was a deserved title- but I travel mostly in moderate circles and either way, they bought it. Dean is associated with the far left (which is great if you are far left) and I think someone more identified as a Clinton democrat type (centrist) like Edwards or Clark would bring in more votes.

I'm not being original here, this was a recurring theme earlier in the election cycle when these guys were all still fighting for the nom.

[Cleita]

15. Screw the moderate swing voters. Weren't they the guys

Lieberman was supposed to entice in the last election? It didn't work that well did it? The swing voters voted for Bush anyway. We need Dean or Kucinich to get the left wing voters to the polls to vote at all or at least not vote for Nader.

[JI7]

16. Clark and Edwards

or some other southerner who can reach out to moderate republicans is the best as they have shown they can bring in some votes.

[Cleita]

19. How about someone who appeals to those of us out West

who provide the major amount of money to the US Treasury, which we usually don't see back as much as we might need it? The South shouldn't be that important anymore. They have had 150 years to recuperate from the Civil War.

[JI7]

23. i am out west

i live in california. and california isn't the only state that will vote on election day. the south will also so it's important to take them into account.

[Cleita]

26. When I was forced to vote for Clinton,

I didn't realize then what a good president he would be except that he didn't come through with the reason I voted for him, universal health care. He didn't disappoint except for that. History explains why. Now, Kerry has said that we should have the same health care "insurance" that Congress has. We know that won't go through and it will become a non-issue like health care became during the Clinton administration. Can you see why I want Dean or Kucinich on board? Those southern guys will not look after the interests I want looked after.

[JI7]

28. "you"

and many want clark,and many want edwards and many want others. and there is no way of knowing what health care will go through especially if republicans keep control of congress. the issue wasn't that clinton didn't care, it was that he had to deal with a republican congress.

[Cleita]

30. So, for the 18,000 Americans a year, who die needlessly because

they don't have access to health care, why worry. :toast: This is to the future 18,000 Americans who will die without health care because, oh gee, it's a Republican Congress.

I want the person who will CONVINCE that Republican Congress that 18,000 needless deaths a year of tax paying Americans is not acceptable.

[JI7]

31. and it's your opinion

that the others don't care or wont convince republicans and that the ones you support will convince them.

[Cleita]

33. Until we have socially responsible health care in this country

that isn't done for ferengi style profit, I can't say any candidate gives a damn.

[Mz Pip]

35. I live in CA

and would love to see Clark on the ticket.

MzPip
:dem:

[Lorien]

34. They came out in droves for Dems in 2002

didn't they? :eyes:

We need someone with a PULSE for VP. My moderate Dem dad HATES Kerry because he thinks he's a "pussy". Remember; when voters are worried, they would rather vote for "strong and wrong" rather than weak and right. We need a VP with charisma and bold ideas to balance out the ticket.

[Cleita]

36. Amen.

We are stuck with Kerry for Prez and I'm not saying he won't be a good President, but we certainly need someone who represents the left, not the middle for VP. Remember the left these days is anyone who used to be a moderate back when we actually had two parties.

[Kiliki]

39. I agree.. so clearly we need Clark ...

Has a pulse, is strong, has charisma, AND as an added benefit for those who like me think it actually matters- will appeal to moderates.

[Eloriel]

5. I don't want him tainted by being in the Kerry administration

In ANY capacity.

It's way bad enough to watch him pimp for Kerry. The ONLY saving grace is that he never says anything while doing it that isn't true -- true of Kerry, and true to Dean's own beliefs and values. THAT I can respect.

I want him to continue building a formidable counter-DLC organization which helps get GOOD people elected across the U.S. I don't want him anywhere near Kerry. Ever.

[Terry_M]

6. That's pretty much how I feel

As VP he wouldn't be allowed to speak as freely, or push for change as hard.

[angryinoville]

7. What if he stayed on as a Kerry advisor?

[Terry_M]

12. As one of many advisors

his impact would probably be small.

[Cleita]

17. So unless, we have another primary Eloriel, what should he do?

I'm not such a purist that I don't think a foot in the door is a waste of time. Dean will fade into oblivion if he doesn't become active in the mainstream scheme of things. I don't want that to happen,I mean him fading into oblivion.

[Oddman]

9. yah . . . that'll happen . . .

when bush puts a man on mars . . .

[shance]

10. Dean is the best choice. No one connects with Americans better.

Nobody is more committed to doing the best job possible.

We would be lucky to have him accept the VP position.

[Oddman]

13. Except if he was offered and accepted the VP position

Kerry would lose . . .

[wndycty]

51. LOL

He really connected with Americans in the primary didn't he.

[stickdog]

11. No.

IMHO, Dean is better than that.

[The Blue Knight]

14. Yea! Draft Dean! So we can get smashed in November!

Karl Rove would blow his load if Kerry nominated Dean as his VP.

[mzmolly]

18. I like it, but doubt it will happen.

:(

[mzmolly]

20. This is interesting...Picking Howard Dean for VP helps John Kerry win the

election

1- Kerry will have great difficulty bringing Nader voters back into the Democratic fold. With his progressive record and anti-war stance, Dean can bridge the gap with Nader. Without these Nader voters, Kerry cannot win a close election.

2- In spite of the dissonance in their positions on Iraq, Dean also gives Kerry cover on the war in two ways: (a) he is a bona fide anti-war candidate who appeals to those for whom this is the over riding issue of the election (b) if Dean sees enough synergy in Kerry's current positions and his own positions on Iraq to run as his VP, this gives Kerry new credibility among anti-war voters.

3 - Dean brings enormous clout and connections within the Latino community, where Bush and the Republicans have a three month head start in Spanish language media and setting up field offices in key states. Dean was endorsed by Hilda Solis, Richard Alarcon, Rocky Delgadillo, Lucille Roybal-Allard, Javier Bacerra, and many other high profile Latino electeds. Dean for America also mounted Southwest Victory Express, one of the largest outreach programs among all campaigns in heavily Latino New Mexico and Arizona, and those connections can still be activated on behalf of Kerry.

4- Dean enhances Kerry's appeal to independents and moderate Republicans, many of whom supported Dean. Kerry has to get Republican defections to compensate for the defections of conservative Dems, and he has to win the independents. Dean can help deliver both.

5- Dean greatly enhances Kerry's fund raising by bringing the "Deaniac" machine and its hundreds of thousands of small donors into play. DFA is the only other Democratic campaign that opted out of matching funds. Dean can help offset the traditional, and not widely known, Republican advantage among small donors.

6- Dean solves the problem with the perception that Kerry has a lackluster stump persona by turbocharging the campaign overnight. It is like having someone pour a drum of Red Bull into Kerry's herbal tea. At the same time, Kerry's steady demeanor helps temper Dean's energy. They complement one another to great advantage.

7- As a former Governor, Dean solves any residual problem with the perception of Kerry as a "Washington insider."

8- Kerry is a hunter. Dean is a hunter. Dean received the NRA's highest rating as Governor of Vermont. Together, they neutralize the Republican NRA advantage better than any other Kerry/VP combo. This gives them a real chance of being competitive in the South and Mountain West, and their positions on the Brady Bill, the Assault Weapons Ban, the Gun Show Loophole, etc., are much more progressive than Bush/Cheney for urban voters.

9- As the frontrunner and prospective nominee for several months, Dean is the only Democrat who has been in the national presidential spotlight and shown he is tough enough to take the heat from the Bush/Rove/RNC attack machine and still punch back.

10-Dean is a bicyclist (www.cyclistsfordean.org) who was endorsed by 21 members of the Congressional Bike Caucus. Kerry is an avid bicyclist who loves cycling so much he takes his bicycle on the campaign plane with him. (www.cyclistsforkerry.org coming soon.) Between the two, they would appeal to the entire spectrum in the 3.5 million strong cyclist advocacy community nationwide.

11- Picking Dean shows that Kerry is not an overly cautious dithererer, but is bold enough to take a "risk" and buck conventional wisdom and is his own man.

12- Finally, all those primary voters who chose Kerry over Dean because they thought Dean was not as "presidential" as Kerry, even though they liked Dean's positions on the issues better, now get to have their cake and eat it too.

[JI7]

25. Nader wants "prowar" candidates to be Kerry's vp (gephardt and edwards)

nader himself has said he wanted those who voted for iwr to be kerry's vp.

[mzmolly]

27. I spose - It helps Nader gain the anti-war vote.

;)

[JI7]

29. so nader voters will vote for him even after he said that

and they claim to be anti war. then they aren't worth the effort to get their votes since they can't be depended on.

[mzmolly]

54. Sure they will. They'll claim it was a smart political move by RN.

Remember they are poised to vote for him anyhow :shrug:

[lastliberalintexas]

44. Do you really not get it?

OF COURSE Nader wants a pro-war VP candidate on the Kerry ticket. How else do you think Nader can increase his numbers?

2 Dems who voted for/support the war could mean double digits for Nader in November. Hopefully our party isn't that stupid.


That said, I agree with Eloriel. I don't Dean anywhere near Kerry's ticket. If Kerry were to lose in November, his thus far lackluster, DLC style campaign would not get the blame it deserves- only Dean would get bashed (as is evident by some of the posters in this thread even).

[JI7]

45. oh, i DO get it

these people are so anti war yet they dismiss the fact that nader himself favors 2 candidates who voted for iwr. and that means if they are willing to overlook nader on that part then they can't be depended on to vote for kerry in any case. and edwards has already proven he can help bring in voters more than anyone else besides kerry so he isn't a bad choice.

[lastliberalintexas]

47. Sorry, but

you really don't get it if you think that Nader really does favor 2 pro-war candidates for any reason other than to help his campaign.


Personally, I don't really care who gets picked and don't have a dog in that fight. I'm not trying to push one candidate over the other, as so many others are doing here.

I am simply saying that we listen to Nader at our peril, since his primary goal is to increase HIS numbers, not ours.

[johncoby2]

21. Leave Dean alone

He doesnt want the position. And Id ont want him to be offered it.

Nothing like pouring cold water down the back of the party with selecting Dean as the VP.

It is not going to happen, but we expect to see Dean out in force this election year.

[WilliamPitt]

41. "We"?

Are you with the Kerry campaign?

[JHBowden]

22. 2 Northeasterners = bad idea

Balancing the ticket regionally seems like the best idea.

[kaitykaity]

24. Agreed.

Maybe a General from Arkansas would do it? :evilgrin:

[Nicholas_J]

32. Funny

Dena was the Bush Administrations perfect opponent, and the one they frequently stated they would have the least problem defeating, as Dena was very easy to marginalize as a far left wing candidate, even though Deans record is remarkably conservative. Dea would be a detriment to the ticket for that very reason. After all was said and don, after all of the polls, when it finally came down to the wire, only a small percentage of people would vote for Dean as the nominee. As focus began to shift to Deans record as Governor, how it clashed with his statements as candidate for the nomination, only true believers, who were as unwilling to look at the inconsistancy between Dean the candidate, and Dean the Governor, as those who support Bush are unwilling to look at the multiple array of reasons that Bush kept stating were the reasons to go to war in Iraq. Dean would drive as many people away from voting Democrats . When Dean was at the top of the polls, there was a good deal of discomforting statistical data within those polls. When Dean was polling in the upper 40's to Lower 50 percent as the person Democrats would vote for, the same polls were showing that if Dean were the nominee. tyhe largest percentage of democrats would cross vote and vote for Bush. Not just vote Republican, but VOTE FOR BUSH. Kerry was the candidate who evoked the smallest number of democrats who would vote for Bush if he were the nominee. Gephardt would drive away a few more than Kerry, Edwards and Clark, more still. But one in five democrats would vote for dubya had in many poll, had Dean been the nominee. Same thing is likely to happen if he is the VP nominee.

[NashVegas]

50. Yeah. Rove Wanted Dean, Just Like Al Queda Wants Kerry

When are people going to stop swallowing that crap?

[Nicholas_J]

53. Only those who supported Dean

do not beleive it.

The facts are that Dean would have been the easiest candidate to marginalize. He was essentially a conservative, but how simple would it have been for Republicans to attack the first person to allow ANY legislation which gave gays the rights to civil union as a a radical supporting the "radical gay agenda" that the far right insists exists in the gay community. There would be no problem attaching that stigma to Dean, though Deans role in the area was rather secondary, in that he never took and active part in taking side in the legal wrangling that resulted in the Vt Supreme Court decision. Also, Dean a supposed fiscal conservative, claiming to have gotten government under control in Vermont, but who in fact raised the state budget from 980 million dollars, to 3.5 billion dollars in a scant 11 years. Who wanted to raise everyone's taxes by repealing ALL of the Bush tax cuts. These would have been merely two very powerful weapons in the hands of the Republican smear machine. Why do you think that Dean, the darling of the polls, failed the moment he faced the public. In the weeks before Iowa, the media began to actually publish a good number of articles dealing with actual events that occurred during the Dean administration of Vermont. Dean could not counter the effects of these events, leaving him wide open to attack. He could not get around the fact that it was his own hand that signed civil unions into law. every state south of the Mason Dixon line was lost to Dean the moment he signed such legislation. And the entire midwest. The gay issue is still a very powerful issue lurking in the back of every national campaign. The nation is still heavily divided in this area, and Dean, for good or ill is a gay political poster boy. Given the actual polling on support for gay marriage, or civil unions, this is a strongly divisive issue, in most cases, a negative one, for anyone running for office anywhere outside of the northeast or west coast.

Dean was the perfect target, not because he stood up for so many issues, but because he was rather opportunistic in his use of them. ALmost anything he has done in his career to advance it, by changing his stance when there was an opportunity to do so, could be used againt him far more easily than any other candidate. A Dean nomination would have been a Bush landslide in 2004,lgitimizing the Bush administrations rule.

Kerry has escaped the ability to have any of the attacks of the Bush administration by totally avoiding every element of Dean's campaign. Dean wished to repeal all of the Bush tax cuts, Kerry very carefully has stated that he wishes to keep the middle class tax cuts, so all of the Bush attacks on how much Kerry would increase taxes has fallen by the way side and none of it would have stuck. On the gay rights issue, nothing can be used to attack Kerry. His stance on leaving it to the states leaves Kerry immune to such attacks. He does not deny gay rights, but he does not support them at the federal level. If you do not think that these issues would have not been serious weapons in the hands of the likes of Rove, you know almost nothing about politics.

[NashVegas]

56. Keep Telling Yourself That

You may believe it, but don't expect the rest of the world to.

Do you know why Kerry is about to become the nominee? Because the elites who like to fancy themselves in charge saw the writing on the wall: Bush is an incompetent failure at hiding the corporatist agenda and everyone with a brain in their head was beginning to see straight through his administration, no matter how hard the media tried to hide it.

Kerry got the nomination because he's not going to stop the gravy train, and because he'll take social progressives and tuck them in at night and sing them softly back to sleep.

As soon as the so-called elites had their candidate, the mainstream news media started removing the floor from under Mr. Bush's administration, and they will keep doing so right through November.

As far as the all-hallowed middle class tax cut goes, Dean was right: there was no middle class tax cut.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4678768/site/newsweek/

[Nicholas_J]

57. Facts

not beliefs.

Kerry got the nomination, because he had a chance of beating Bush. Dean lost because he could not beat Bush. Even many people who voted for Dean in the primaries had large doubts as to his ability to beat Bush. Exit polls in New Hampshire, for example showed that 54 percent of those who voted for Kerry beleved he had a chance of beating Bush. Contrast that with the 22 percent of these who voted for Dean in New Hampshire, his own back yard, beleived that Dean could win in a run against Bush. Occams razor. The simplest answer is generally true. Conspiracy theory generally is not.

There was a middle class tax cut, Deans claims, and yours, in opposition to that will not change the facts. 54 percent of the money from the Bush tax cuts went to the bottom 99 percent of the tax paying population, 46 percent went to the top one percent. You can make the statement all you want, but it does not concur with fact.
There was in fact a middle class tax cut in federal taxation.

Dean was perceived by the general public as running a campaign for president diametrically opposed to his record as governor. The fact are that as governor, the rich got tax cuts under Dean, the poor and middle class received a grater burden, accoring to the Instute of Taxation and Economic Policy, a non partisan think tank. While Dean was governor of Vermont, the rich got richer, the poor got poorer, the middle class stagnated, more people fell out of the middle clas andd into poverty and the percentage of people working in no benefit, low income minimum wage jobs grew. Dean frequently made statemetns regarding axing Social Security and Medicare, and raising the age pf retirement.

There is one thing that is anathema in politics, That will kill a campaign faster than anything else. 4 little words. they are..."What I meant was". Dean had to retract and make excuses for his past statements and behavior so often that the public, in general, did not trust Dean. The only people who ended up supporting him were the same ones he started with. Those who simply would not look at Deans past with an unbiased eye.

Dean was not the liberal that he tried to portray himself when it was convenient. Nor the centrist he tried to portray himself at at other times. Dean was simply one of the most conservative Democratic Governors of the last half century. He had one of the highest rankings for conservatism given to any Democratic Governor by the Cato Institute, one of the best known conservative libertarian think tanks in the country.

After a while the disconnect between Dean the candidate, and Dean the governor became simply too obvious for most of the voting public to ignore.

Facts are fact. There was no conspiracy, no mind control. Dean simply did not measure up for the job in opinion of the public. The fact that Dean would have preferred that the media hide his past record, rather than to do what the is supposed to do is not the medias problem. It is Deans. Considering his statements on the bill of rights, and his past statements stating thatt as governor, he wanted to appoint judges who were willing to ignore the bll of rights, this comes as no surprise. Many of Deans nominations to the Vermont Judiciary have been brought to court for many violations of the first amendment.

You can beleive what you want about Dean. He lost. mostly because he did not measure up in the minds of the voting population to something presidential. He was not trusted.

[stickdog]

59. Kerry got the nomination because Gephardt kamikazied his campaign

into Dean's while Kerry & Edwards stayed positive down the stretch, corporate media didn't say a single unambiguously good word about Dean after 12/03, the "scream" got played about 6,567 times between Iowa and New Hampshire, and the entire primary system was set up to ensure that whoever won Iowa and NH would win the whole thing.

[Nicholas_J]

60. Gephardt Kamikazed Deans campaign for good reasons

There was nothing that Gephardt reported about Dean that was not true.

Again, the average voter is fairly congnizant about what they get in their income tax returns. In fact, it is one of the things that they probably pay very close attention to. The result was simply that a lot of people listened to Dean (and Gephardt) talking about repealing the middle class tax cuts and said that Dean may be right about some people not getting tax cuts, but he is not right about MY tax cut, and I dontg want anyone who is going to take it away, Thus in Iowa, Dean who until then was the leader of the pack, and Gepardt, a favorite son from next door to Iowa saw thei campaigns go down into the toilet. Everything that Gepardt exposed about Deans record as Governor, and every statement that Dean made was factual. Almost all of them were reprints of articles from major Vermoont Newspapers.

Someone told the truth about Deans record. BooHoo. Dean started the negative campaigning, long before Gepahrdt began attacking Deans record as Governor. In June of 2003 in San Francisco , Dean not only lied about both Edwards and Kerry's position on Iraq, minutes afterwards outside the hall where the meetng occured, Dean admitted that he knew he was misrepresenting their records, and sent a letter of apoligy admitting it. When Bob Graham threw his hat in the ring, Dean made off handed comments about Graham age being an imediment to his being president (As Dean put it, Graham would be in his 70's if he won and ran for a second term, leavin the public to decide what he meant, again ,Dean had to apologize for this) In South Carolina, when Kucinich cornered Dean on his past statements about raising the age of Social Security, Dean stated that he "NEVER" made such statements, Within two days Dean was apogizong for his past statements about raising the age of Social Security, but neglected to apologize for lying in front of millions of Americans on television days before about having made the comments to bgegin with.

Dena did make comments supporting Newt Gingrichs ideas on freezing Medicare and Social Security spending. Dean supported Gingrich's level of cuts. He did not support the lower rates that Clinton wanted.

There is nothing inappropriate in Gephardt pointing out what Dean has said and done. There is a great deal that is inappropriate about Dean directly lying about the records of other candidates, Edwards and Kerry' record on Iraq when he did in in San Francisco, and lying about Kerrys record on voting for Farm Supports in Iowa when Deans campaign attributed the vote of Bob Kerry to John Kerry, and did not retract it, or offer an apology. In fact Deans campaign kept distributing pamaphets that attributed the vote to John Kerry for the campaign in New Hampshire for the entire week after the Iowa Caucuses. Dean knew it was a lie, and kept promulgating it.

Gephardt never attributed anything to Dean that did not come out of Deans own mouth, not just in the 1990's but as close as a few months before in the campaign. Dean made his statements about raising the age of Social Security not just in the 1990's while Gingrich was attempting to do it, but as late as the spring of 2003 on Meet the Press during a Tim Russert interview, just weeks before Kucinich nailed him on it in South Carolina.

And the whole primary and caucus thing in Iowa and New Hampshire didnt insure squat. When the microscope was on Dean as the actual voting got to be real, more people did not like what they were seeing and hearing and Deans own past came back to haunt him, There was nothing that was attributed to Dean during the Campaign about his philosophy of Governing that Dean did not hold or act on while he was governor. Which is why the Vermont Democratic Party lost almost a third of its membership to the Vermont Progressive Party while Dean was Governor. The loss was greatly attributed to Deans conservatisnm. As Governor, Dean had more support from moderate Republicans than he did from Liberal Democrats or Progressives.

[stickdog]

61. To summarize:

Dean eats babies! Millions of them!

Dean can do nothing right (Dean always lies) and Dean's opponents can do nothing wrong (any bad thing anybody says about Dean is 100% true)!

Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! Must keep attacking Dean! ...

[Nicholas_J]

63. Finally

you are using the common sense god gave you.

[stickdog]

58. Dean is strongest where Bush is weakest.

1) Iraq War
2) Deficits
3) Jobs
4) Telling the Truth

[Yupster]

37. How do you draft a VP candidate?

Kerry's just going to pick whoever he wants to isn't he?

[JI7]

38. you don't

and yes, kerry will pick who he wants. and it's not going to be based on petitions. if he is looking for what voters want then he might go by the primary results where edwards did second best.

[WilliamPitt]

40. An all-New England ticket? Mmmm, not so smaht.

[Justitia]

48. We currently have an all-Texas team

contrary to the phony Wisconsin posing by Cheney.

Just pointing out the ruse of a "balanced ticket". I live in Dallas and know right where the Cheney's live. I also know where their Houston house is.

When he changed his voter registration to WI barely under the time limit to be eligible for VP, everyone here in town had a great laugh over that.

[Beaker]

42. abso-f*ckin-lutely not.

it's way wrong.

also- it's the candidate who chooses his running mate...not the party, not the people- it's the candidates first major decision- (and for Al Gore it was a ba-a-a-d decision)

[stilladeaniac]

43. Has my support...n/t

n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

46. It would be one sure way to get me to vote for the ticket

And a lot of other people I am sure, including swing voters. I don't know about anywhere else, but my Dean meet-ups were half democrats, half republicans and third party folks.

[NashVegas]

49. No, Don't

Dean can be far more effective out in the field, unmuzzled.

[Angelus]

52. Say bye bye to Kerry getting elected if that happens.

[info being]

55. Done

[Zinfandel]

62. I like Dean..but two New Englanders on the same ticket?

Although two Texans are in the WH now...even if Cheney is really from Wyoming.