"Progressives" and the Elections

[bigtree]

Do progressives have to show that it can actually win national elections before we follow them? What do progressives think of the majority of voters who don't vote for their candidates?

Isn't the progressive movement's power in effecting change dependent on building coalitions? Do progressives serve their cause by unleashing such scorn on those who are sympathetic, but don't articulate policy as forcefully and as directly as others might?

Don't progressives need to coalesce if they want to further their agenda in our political system of compromise? In this election?

Just what does it mean that the country hasn't embraced candidates who are seen as progressive in presidential elections? What does it say about their argument? How can progressives convince the rest of us of the value of their argument and the worth of their candidates with the dismal record of success statewide and in presidential contests?

I realize that in the House there is a sizable contingent of progressive representatives. But not in the Senate.

What does it say about the message of progressives since they have trouble electing candidates statewide or nationally?

I think what the voters decide matters. I believe the fact that these progressive candidates don't get elected is a reflection on the popularity of their message. That's why I am baffled by the claim that they would do better than more centrist candidates in the general election. Where is the evidence of that?

Hasn't the progressive movement failed so far in converting the majority of the electorate? Or does it matter at all that their message doesn't seem to produce a majority of votes?


Me Book

[Senior citizen]

1. Who represents us?

"I realize that in the House there is a sizable contingent of progressive representatives. But not in the Senate."

Have you noticed many females or minorities in the Senate? What about poor people--we're the vast majority of the country now, so surely we should have at least one representative in the Senate.

Yes, there are a few progressives in the House. But until we get free and fair elections, nonpartisan redistricting, the return of the Fairness Doctrine, publicly funded elections, proportional elections, instant runoff voting, etc., etc., only big corporations will continue to be represented in the Senate.

:kick:

[Imperialism Inc.]

6. Good points.

Here is a question. Whatever our proportion is in the general population, don't we deserve to have that same percentage in the Congress? Otherwise it is just "taxation without representation".

But the current powers will never let that happen I am convinced. For all the talk of democracy this and that and the other , actually doing some simple things (like those you mention) to increase it is the last thing you will hear 'em talk about doing.

[LoZoccolo]

2. On the support of the electorate...

Hasn't the progressive movement failed so far in converting the majority of the electorate?

From what I see a lot of them don't try. They're willing to sit on message boards and revel that they can make us throw a spaz by threatening to vote Nader or write in some candidate, or hurl accusations that they're not being served by candidates, but they're not willing to actually go out and present a clear message that can't be steamrolled in thirty seconds by right-wing pundits. Not that their aims are weak, but they need to go out and make a more bulletproof case than "well I'm doing X because I'm a real progressive" - one that can hold it's own in the marketplace of ideas and spread itself.

I've said this a lot - go to the people with your case and the candidates won't be able to ignore your issue. One example I give is how gay and lesbian activists have been very effective at getting clear messages out to win the support of several times their actual constituency - the issue of same-sex unions is now a big issue in this election, despite the fact that only something like six percent of the population maximum would register for one.

[Senior citizen]

9. No, the progressive movement has not failed.

It hasn't succeeded in converting a majority of the electorate yet, but it is making good progress.

I believe that even the pukes and freepers have message boards, and I don't see you accusing them of not trying.

It is easy to steamroll messages when you own the media or don't let people with opposing views post to your message board.

The problem is not that progressives don't make a "bulletproof case" for populist and democratic ideas, but that you guys aren't open to reason and shoot us down with real bullets.

Suppose you have a brilliant concept--would you like to try explaining it to someone who lacks basic logic and reasoning skills, is obsessed with faith-based, mumbo-jumbo, and is eager to kill anyone who isn't? They're not shopping in the "marketplace" of ideas, they're shopping in the arms and WMD market--and selling there too.

Fascism has never had a good or marketable idea. It converts the majority through brute force. It may pay false homage to civilization, but it believes only in the law of the jungle: survival of the most violent, ruthless, and inhumane.

[Classical_Liberal]

3. It says money talks

. We almost got Dean nominated. We are learning.

[Imperialism Inc.]

4. Money and media.

Sometimes media talks all on its own ... money or not :(

The counter question of couse is, would the centrist dems stands a snowball's chance in hell without us?

[Classical_Liberal]

5. No they wouldn't

stand a snowballs chance in hell without us, but then we end up with Bush. Other offices are also important. I want progressives to get elected to congress as well.

[Imperialism Inc.]

7. Oh I agree to be sure.

[2Design]

8. you have to be willing to follow them no matter what

If you can let the rw influence you by tearing down your candidate, you have lost.

If you want progressive values to get out there, you must support those candidates. Get their message out there.

RW has the media, the radio.

Dean seemed to do it by going out and talking to people. One on One

People are tired of being marketed to. Talked at. Talked down to. They want to know they count and that someone cares.

Rush doesn't care, Bush doesn't care. They just have a big marketing arm....

Getting people to vote for the progressive guy no matter what the media, the rw, the polls, or anyone else says...that is the hard part.

The media played a big role in the loss of 2000 and 2002. They start calling the presidential race before the west coast polls close. People don't bother going to the polls if they think their guygal is losing....

Or like in the primaries....everyone started voting for kerry because of the media.....all of those candidates were in play right up until the convention. People let the media sway their vote. Very few voted for their guygal.

We must win back this country this year.

Having all these polls and conversations about kerry's VP or what if he does this or that......or what if nadar.....or what if the sky falls....

do you want to move toward progressive.....then you vote democratic. If you don't like who that is, then get out there and be a candidate.

how many races are being run in every state unopposed by a democrat? And then some races we have 5 democrats against one repub? Now that will cost us.

Get one democrat in every race at every level and then get out and vote for that person.

I went to vote last year. We had two senators up for reelection. Both repubs. Totally unopposed. I can't run for senator. I have too many skeletons. I wouldn't even get out of the gate.

We need candidates in every race. Florida has 59 unopposed repubs races. Va has some too.

But this year with the house seat, some democrat has stepped forward against schrock. That person has my vote. They may not vote for all the values that I cherish but there is a better chance they may vote for one or two that I chose.

The repubs will not vote for anything I value. Their form letter answers show that. I got a form letter back about immigrant on a letter I sent about the torture. Giving me their laundry list of reasons they believe whatever.

So I have rambled. must stop now.

[depakid]

10. Put together a questionaire on all of the major issues

Then look for valid and reliable data on where the majority of Americans attitudes, beliefs and values lie on each of those issues.

If you do that, I think you'll find your evidence.....

[Senior citizen]

11. Don't tell me what to do.

What good is evidence? Many people in Nazi Germany had evidence of what was going on. So what?

Had you passed around questionaires, you'd have found that the vast majority of Germans at that time liked Hitler and disliked Jews. It was extremely dangerous to say anything else, but most were just going along to get along. You know how peer pressure, pressure to keep the job that pays the rent and feeds you, and the pressures of a police state can sway opinions.

If we progressives weren't doing an excellent job, freepers wouldn't be here criticizing us, trying to distract us, and trying to tell us what we should do instead of the excellent job we're doing.


:kick:

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Ranked voting will give you a more honest answer

People still check off the name of who they think "can win", not who they want to win. Give people the opportunity to place a vote for both and I think we will see a rise in the number of progressives who take office. Cut the "Golden Rule" factor out of the electoral process, and you'll see even more take office.

[Speed8098]

13. Progressives don't vote in numbers

As witnessed in the 8 years of the Big Dog, and the overwhelming numbers of votes for Gore over *, progressives outnumber conservatives.

They just don't vote.

If everyone in the country voted, the republicans would never hold office.

We are the majority.

Personally, I am offering rides to people who can't get to the pols. I also carry voter registration forms with me at all times.

The only way to win this is to "GET OUT THE VOTE"

Go to your local community college and get these kids registered.

I have a sign in my car window that simply says VOTE IN NOVEMBER.

The more voters we have, the better our chances of winning this thing.


On Edit: Spelling :)

[BeFree]

14. Anti-government feelings

Most Americans have anti-governement feelings. The Cons play on that emotion, while secretly increasing the government's power. It has had a great deal of success, eh?

Progressive, by the very nature of the word, is a pro-government feeling. Progressive government requires active involvement by it's citizens. That's why it's appeal is limited. Most folks don't want to be involved.

Republicanism does appeal to a majority of folks because it asks little of the citizens time. "Vote Republican, just sit back, we will take care of things for you" they say. Problem is Cons control that party. Progressives say: "Come, join the battle, get involved".

Somehow, someway, we must beat back the hypocricy of the Cons and make it fun to be involved in the government. Then we shall rule, again.