How do "Christian" rethugs reconcile their bloodlust with this?

[rumguy]

"You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

snip

"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..."

This is from the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount.

How can rethugs and freepers strut around and pretend they are big-time Christians? How do they internally reconcile this? Does anyone know?

Bush says our enemies have "no soul". The freepers cheer on death and celebrate when our "enemies" are killed. I'm confused.

[Sirveri]

1. Don't forget

they also are some of the most die hard supporters of the Death Penalty as well.

[rumguy]

2. not only do they support it but they actually take joy in it

some of them do anyway...

[KissMyAsscroft]

3. They see no problem with it..

They aren't logical people...they believe in Arks and shit. I just ignore them.

[DaveSZ]

4. I'd like to ignore them too

But, they control all 3 branches of our government, so it's a bit hard to ignore them.

Ignoring them is the reason we're in this mess.

-

On another note, I point this out to RW 'Christians,' that Jesus was the prince of peace, and they freak out.

The Fundies tend to look at the Old Testament for their views instead of the New Testament.

That's where all the pro-war, gay bashing stuff is.

[izzie]

14. I did also

That is a did. I never figured they could get so much power as they were so un-American. I can recall them saying they would take over from the school boards up and I frankly thought it was all silly. Some even said it would be a Christian nation and their type of Christians. Now I believe they mean it.

[Mechatanketra]

5. Dispensationalism.

There is a significant block of Christianity which basically sees all of Jesus's actual teachings as relevant only to the world after the notional Second Coming. Effectively, only listen to Jesus while Jesus is here, and otherwise we're still supposed to adhere to the Old Testament (except when Saul of Tarsus said we could ignore it -- so eating bacon is OK but being gay is not despite the fact that they have the same weight in Leviticus).

Frankly, most of the beliefs that make up what we call "Christianity" are a crock of **** with no actual connection to what Jesus would have taught, even assuming we can take the Gospel's word that Jesus actually existed and taught this stuff. It didn't take even a whole generation before people (such as the aforementioned Saul o'Tarsus) to start whacking at the message with a hatchet to fit their own aesthetic.

As Bill Hicks (man, I miss him) put it: "Fundamentalists believe the Bible is the exact literal word of God ... then they change the Bible. 'I think what God meant to say, was ...'"

[Gman]

6. They hate Jesus

Jesus is the New Testament. The New Testament is a major nuisance and inconvenience to the RW because it conflicts with their brutal and violent lifestyles and preferences. The RW wishes Jesus was never born. They would gladly do without Christmas if it meant they wouldn't have to do the "turn the other cheek" or "love your neighbor" crap. Regardless, they choose to ignore Jesus' commandments to do these. Jesus has made the RW's lives miserable and they hate Him for it.

[asjr]

7. That type of Christian really gives

Christianity a bad name.

[SOteric]

8. It's really difficult to find answers to so complex an issue, but

in many cases Fundamentalists and fiercely right wing conservatives have a common trait: others tell them what to think and how to interpret.

And then there is a need to show their loyalty and faith by zealously and unquestioningly parroting the dogma.

Sadly, such traits are not limited to our own country, nor to Fundamentalist Christians, nor even to this century.

[progdonkey]

9. ignorant fundies

I've actually found that Fundies are some of the most ignorant-of-the-Bible people I've met. I remember this one die-hard Christian (who was actually a rather nice guy) at my school who was pretty dumb. I mentioned how Joshua had commanded the sun to stand still (the basis of the whole Church dogma of geocentrism--besides Aristotelianism) as an example of logical fallacy in the Bible, and he said he didn't remember ever reading that.

How can you say you love God and the Bible when you haven't even taken the time to read the whole thing? (Maybe this guy in particular was just extra dumb: he believed that Nazis were far left!) I have plenty of other experiences with Fundies not knowing the Bible, though; difference of interpretation is one thing, but not knowing a fully fleshed-out event is something else entirely!

Fundamentalists spend so much time quoting the Old Testament when Jesus basically said the Old Testament had become obsolete with his arrival (they have to quote the Old Testament; how else will they decry the never-mentioned-by-Jesus subject of homosexuality?). These people just find strength in believing that some things are certain and they are among the few who are privy to the truth; it's so much more comforting to believe that everything is planned out and all you have to do is read this one book to know everything that will ever occur.

Part of it as well is a sense of identity (really just a different conception of certainty). Freepers and their ilk have always defined themselves as white, male, American Christians; each of those define who they are and why they matter. For the extreme racists, the view would be, "I may be a murderer, but at least I ain't no nigger!" and so on. Likewise, the extreme Christians would say, "Well, I may be an alcoholic, adulterous child molester, but at least I ain't no raghead Muslim!"

It's not anything in the Christian religion that attracts them to it, nor is it anything in American ideals; it's simply that they need to feel like they matter, and the easiest way is to believe the things over which they had no choice make them superior to others. Why make the effort to better yourself when you can just convince yourself that you're already superior to others with no effort at all?

[Mike Niendorff]

10. You just hit it right on the head.

> Why make the effort to better yourself when you can just convince
> yourself that you're already superior to others with no effort at all?

Bullseye.


MDN

[girl gone mad]

11. It's just bigotry..

disguised as religion.

It's an ancient text, difficult even for scholars to interpret, contradictory and vague. This is part of the reason for its survival in the modern age.

Fundamentalists rely on an audience uneducated both in Biblical and real world knowledge, since a fundamentalist interpretaion is contrary to modern knowledge and experience. Many fundamentalist churches encourage homeschooling in order to avoid exposure to secular teachings and actively discourage college attendance (of course, more fundie colleges are springing up now that a college degree has become a standard requirement in so many professions).

[SuffragetteSal]

13. bigotry disguised as religion

I couldn't agree more with your statement.

[BeHereNow]

12. Christian checking in:

The fact is-
The fundies highlight their bibles with
blood stained markers at their
hate monger study sessions.
Trouble is, their copies don't contain
the New Testament, only Old Testament
passages along with snippets of
"Notes from Hitler and Busholini"

It my experience in dealing with X-tians,
that they can only spew garbled text, taken
out of context to suit their particular agenda of hate.
The majority of them, have NO clue what Jesus
asked of his Church- simple things concerning
love, and two simple physical acts to demonstrate
spiritual truth in a physical state.

Please do not confuse Christianity with
Evangelical delusionaries.
They are wolves in sheeps clothing and
they do not know Jesus.

BHN

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. They dehumanize anyone who is not just like them

so that it is ok.

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[noonwitch]

16. Because right wingers are "little picture" christians, they can find verse

to support their own views. Like:

"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father and the daughter agaisnt her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more thanme is not worthy of me.
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth me is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." MT 11:34-40

What fundies will do is quote the first part of the passage, and ignore the context of the rest of it to justify violence and war. They just don't want to see the big picture. That makes them Pharisees.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. How do they reconcile the passage you quote

(which is actually from Chapter 10 of Matthew) with this verse from five chapters previous to that:

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God" ? (Matthew 5: 9)

Then there is this passage from the Book of Isaiah, which dealt extensively with prophesy about the Messaiah:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace"
(Isaiah 9:6; used verbatim in Handel's Messaiah)

[Catholic Sensation]

18. Thankfully the Vatican was against the war in Iraq, our death penalty, etc

which makes me glad to be a Catholic. Of course it wasn't always like this, but people can change apparently.

That's not to say the Roman Catholic Church never condones war and fighting. Sometimes it is necessary, and I can't imagine anyone genuinely thinking responding to 9-11 was antithetical to the teachings of Jesus.

By the way, the only Christian groups to support this campaign in Iraq were the Southern and Independent Baptists. The Southern Baptists are boycotting Disney for it being too sexual, and the Independent Baptists won't let college kids who date hold hands, and until 2000, wouldn't allow interracial dating. The Christians who supported the war probably believed the crap about liberation and weapons of mass destruction. I believe that now, most Christians see this as an awful war. Most Christians aren't idiots, the only problem is that quite a few of the loudest amongst us are idiots.

[Az]

19. Belief is not about adhering to the doctrine

It is about adhering to what you believe the doctrine is. And this belief about what the doctrine claims to be does not necissarily come directly from the doctrine itself. It is a combination of social constructs and personal biases.

People will reject the bible when it says something they disagree with. If it does not fit their world view they will not be able to internalise the teaching. Just as when their beliefs are refuted by science or reality.

Belief cannot be directly confronted by logic, truth, or facts. It can only be shaken when doubt has already entered into the person's mind. Zealotry is about adherence to the belief, not the doctrine.

[Killarney]

20. They say there is a difference b/t individual & military action.

One fundy told me (when I told her that I don't think Jesus would approve of what Bush has done) that the Bible condones violence by governments. That's why the death penalty and war are OK by her, because the government is doing it. :eyes:

They will basically find any way to justify their bloodlust.