Favorite US President, 1789-1845

[UrbScotty]

The top two from each poll go to the final round, sometime early in the week, UNLESS someone gets 50%, in which case they go to the final round all by themselves.

All terms started and ended in March (that's when inauguration day was back then), unless otherwise noted.

(F)=Federalists
(DR)=Democratic-Republican
(D)=Democratic
(W)=Whig

[JHBowden]

1. Who voted for Jackson and why?

Was it because of his stance against centralized money power? I'm confused.

[genius]

2. Some Klansmen.

As a Demoocrat, I'm kind of embarrased about having a slave-trader and an Indian-slaughterer in my party. Did Jackson do anything decent besides win a battle in the War of 1812 after the treaty was signed. On second thought, that was a blooper on his part too.

[sallyseven]

4. How could you not vote for Harrison?

He dd nothing wrong.

[genius]

5. You mean because he died before he could mess up the country?

He was an Indian fighter too.

[JHBowden]

6. Tippecanoe and Tyler too!

Yup.

[Rowdyboy]

9. Unfair!! Judged by todays standards on issues, none of these men pass

the smell test. Its absurd to expect them to be pure during a period when slave trading and Indian slaughtering were acceptable behavior in general society, strongly encouraged by both the government and the people. Of course we don't accept such behavior today. What has that got to do with anything?

Is Jefferson, the greatest genius of the Revolution, evil because he was a slave owner? Washington?

Jackson's accomplishments as a fighter against the business and banking elite earn him respect as an American president. His populist appeal was unquestioned and he was a totally appropriate representative of the people for that period.

Most important of all, Jackson, like Gore, had an election stolen from him by the business elite. In 1824, Jackson lead a 4 man field easily, but the eastern elite used the electoral college to steal the election for the son of an ex-president-John Quincey Adams. Adams only served one term before Jackson came back and kicked the living shit out of him. Sent him back to Boston, so to say.

Sound familiar?

[RoyGBiv]

13. I don't disagree with all that...

But, I wouldn't be so hard on JQ Adams, especially not to the extent of making a comparison between him and the Shrub.

Adams was an ineffective President, in part because of the justifiable outrage over how he got elected. But he was one of the nation's best Secretaries of State under Monroe. As a Congressman after his Presidency, he almost single-handedly led the battle against the Gag Rule that effectively denied abolitionists from exercising their constitutional right of petitioning the government. He was one of the few brave enough to stand up against the slave power. "...though the heavens fall, let it come..." He was an amazing orator too.

I highly suspect that if Shrub had been in his position, he would have been the one that argued in favor of instituting the Gag Rule.

[mot78]

3. He was the founder of our party

The Democratic Party was created in reaction to the Corrupt Bargain of 1824, where Henry Clay pledged to give his Electoral College votes to Adams in exchange for being appointed Sec of State. This pissed off Jackson, who had a plurality of the popular vote AND Electoral College votes, and resulted in a new party being formed for the purpose of getting him elected in 1828. Ironic though, because the Democrats were originally the anti-big government, white power RWers that we now detest, while the Whigs were the party of big government and to a lesser extent, the Abolitionist/Free Soiler Movement, and their programs and views of the Federal Government ultimately won the day (with the irse of Whiggish programs passed under Lincoln, the Progressive Era, etc.)

[genius]

7. Jefferson founded our party. Jackson just shortened the name.

He probably couldn't pronounce names that long. The name was originally the Democratic-Republican Party. Lately, publishers have been trying to change history by inaccurately calling it the "Republican" Party.

[RoyGBiv]

8. That's been happening for a long time...

It's not a new phenomenon.

Both parties have long claimed Jefferson as their ideological founder, partly because his positions on various things are often outwardly contradictory and can be spun in support of various positions.

For all the bad press that Jackson, imo deservedly, receives, a great deal of it could apply just as easily to Jefferson.

[genius]

11. Sorry. We have direct links to Jefferson. The Repubs are from the Feds

When I was in school, the history books used the full name of Democratic-Republican.

The Republicans traced their roots back to the Whigs and the Whigs traced their roots back to the Federalists.

The good news about Jefferson is that he tried to list slavery as one of the King's attrocities in the Declaration of Independence.

Don't let the names confuse you.

[mot78]

14. But the Whigs were not just ex-Feds

Many of them, like Henry Clay and Daniel Webster, were DR's. THe fact that the DR's were the only party during the post-1812 Era of Good Feeling amde them, perhaps the only "big-tent" party in history, where factions of every political spectrum belonged. All of the candidates in the 1824 Elections were DR's, including Jackson.

[RoyGBiv]

15. I'm not confused...

Read Michael Holt's The Rise and Fall of the Whig Party. Whigs claimed Jefferson just as loudly as the Democrats.

Everyone can trace their roots to the Democratic-Republicans because, as Mot78 said, during the first couple decades of the 18th century, everyone was a Democratic-Republican.

In any case, I don't doubt the books you used in school used the full name. So did mine. Books today still use the full name. However, some books have always shortened the name to either Democrats or Republicans as well, sometimes due to an author's personal preference, sometimes for other reasons, some valid, some rather arbitrary.

[mot78]

17. Text books today call the DR's "Jeffersonians" or

Jeffersionian Republicans. If you want to look at politics today, this country has become really partisan, in a way not seen since the heyday of Jacksonian Democracy.

[RoyGBiv]

20. Some do, yes...

Although, in this context, "republican" refers to the particular concept of "republicanism" as a form of government, not a political ideology per se.

[mot78]

10. That's not correct

In 1824, the only political party was the Democratic-Republican party, which was founded by Jefferson, and the states-rights Anti-Federalists that originally formed to oppose the Constitution and campaign for a Bill of Rights. The Federalists gradually died off, and the DR's was the only party standing. Because of this, they encompassed every possible political faction, with big government and abolitionist types like Henry Clay and Daniel Webster, to small, pro-slavery people like John C. Calhoun and Jackson. Jackson and his supporters founded the Democratic Party as a soapbox for Jackson's White House bid, and to advance the Southern-Western frontier agenda of small government. The Remaining DR's became the "National Republicans" briefly, but became the Whigs in reaction to Jackson killing off the Bank of the US.

[mot78]

12. Here's a good way of explaing this

Nevermind, I can't post it properly.

[bullimiami]

34. Isnt it interesting

That one of the greatest most truly democratic and popular (to us) presidents came directly after one of the most right-wing fascistic anti-constitutional presidents ever.
W is a soul mate of Adams with his sedition act and his love of jailing dissenters.

[No2W2004]

16. I gave Tyler a vote

Not because he was a great president, or even that good of a president, but because of what he did to assure that the executive branch couldn't be co-opted by party leaders.

When Harrison croaked, the Whigs all assumed that Tyler would pretty much let Henry Clay and the Whig leadership run things. They considered Tyler as an "Interim President" or as just a caretaker. Tyler had the balls to stand up to Clay & the Whigs and established himself as POTUS. No * after his name. It set an important precedent that was much more important when Andrew Johnson was battling the Radical Republican congress.

[mot78]

19. Tyler was an example of ideological purity vs. pragmatism

Tyler and Jonhson are reasons why people don't want McCain as Veep. If Kerry got shot and McCain took over, he would be battling Congress non-stop.

[UrbScotty]

23. Interesting thought - but I still think Jefferson's sexier.

There, I said it.

[UrbScotty]

18. Let's talk about Jefferson!

The replies thus far have been about Jackson, but T.J. has a lot of votes so far.

Which makes sense - you know, Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase, diplomat, etc.

So... What do you like most about Jefferson?

[Snow]

21. And for that matter, why is Madison getting ignored? -n/t

[UrbScotty]

24. Yeah, I kind of like Madison, too.

He did play an important role in writing the Constitution.

[mot78]

22. T.J. has done stuff that both Liberals and COnservative applaud

He cut defense spending drastically, believing that a militant foreign policy was bad for America, and opposed Adam's Alien and Sedtion Acts, which were kind of like the Patriot Act in their day.
He was for small government in general though, and detested urban values (which many RWers do today).

[UrbScotty]

25. Someone resurrect Jefferson!

He would be Bush's Public Enemy #1.

[RoyGBiv]

26. What I like about TJ

I like TJ the intellectual philosopher and radical reformer.

I have questions about his personal life, financial sensibilities, and record as President.

[UrbScotty]

27. Kick

55

[Charlie Brown]

28. and no votes for James Monroe

You'd think having a Doctrine named after him would warrant something

[newyawker99]

32. Hi Charlie Brown!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Fenris]

29. Madison

[UrbScotty]

31. Yeah, he's underrated. (nt)

[wuushew]

30. Just remember Washington freed his slaves

What was Jefferson's reason not to? Didn't at least one of his daughters die? Who were his heirs.

Also Federalism rules the Jeffersonian naive and quaint agrarian vision was not in synch with the upcoming industrialization of America and in any case much of the opposition to federalism and powers over monetary debt involved protection of the Virginian land owner class of which he was a propertied elite.

[RoyGBiv]

36. Jefferson's slaves...

Jefferson's slaves were sold to pay his enormous debts.

[Retrograde]

33. can I vote for the first six?

I wouldn't be too embarrassed to have any of the first six around today. If I had to pick one, I'd go with John Quincy Adams, not so much for what he did as president but for his work as secretary of state and later in the House.

Yeah, they all got their warts, but they managed to keep the country more or less working during the first crucial decades.

linda

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Washington.

He stepped down.