New Berg Conspiracy Theory...

[southpaw]

For any still interested:

TOP STORY: English Words Spoken on Nick Berg Beheading Video

ATSNN has uncovered a shocking revelation contained in the audio portion of the Nick Berg beheading video. Listening closely, at the very end of the video when Berg's head is being held before the camera, you can hear background voices and whispers. One voice, however, is very clear. An American-sounding voice, speaking english.

Instructions for hearing the voices:
Open the file in any appropriate media player for playing MP3 files. Slide the audio control over to approximately 5:10, or about the last 5% of the audio track. Now begin listening with the sound turned up as far as you can tolerate, or with a decent pair of headphones.

At 5:12 you'll clearly hear the following english statement in what certainly appears to be an American voice:
"How wicked was that?" (pause) "Huh?"

This is followed with a response:

"hoo-ah"

Then you'll hear another short pause, followed by:
"How are we gonna..." and the audio ends in mid-sentence.

After you have listened a few times at regular speed, select the slow play speed and re-listen. This is a shocking development found in the original, unmodified Nick Berg beheading video.

[LittleApple81]

1. link? n/t

[southpaw]

2. Link!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread51616/pg1

[Straight Shooter]

16. Another link, where they increase the volume each time

No screaming, just the focus on the words. Except in this case, they think the words might be "They will be done."

Also has been speculation about, "Now we are done."

http://www.breakfornews.com/berg-thywillbedone.mp3

If the link doesn't work for you, go to http://www.breakfornews.com and click on the link for the Berg tape.

[durutti]

52. It's a Rorshach blot.

'Nuff said.

[Must_B_Free]

76. exactly - an excercise in futility

to me it sounds like

"ou ood de duzuh... ou oood dee duh."

Meanwhile, in case you haven't notices the wheels have fallen off Bush Regime. They are now eating their ownevil spawn... Bush's "Keep the faith" meeting today was a flop.

Why are we wasting our time looking at clouds when there are so many other important details?

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, but, good god people, yesterday it was "thy will be done" and now it's "how wicked was that?"

I'd love to find something concrete here, but so far we have:
-one of several million white plastic chairs.
-a "prison outfit" made of sheeny silk with wide sleeve openings
-speculation about some garbled sylables
-argument about how much blood is seen in a crap resolution video
-a finger called an ear

basically all worthless bullshit!

meanwhile we are ignoring
- a wandering Jew in a Muslim warzone
- terrorists had his email address
- explanation given by his father for said email is suspicious (a vagrant with a laptop and wireless modem offering to send email on a bus?)
- another bonesman running the Oklahoma campus
- Leading dem candidate torpedoed in a single day by a misconstrued audio clip in favor of another Bonesman.
- How may Philadelphia Jews do you know that choose go to college for "a few weeks" in Oklahoma and sleep on couches and get arrested?
- the last man to see him alive speaking at a Freeper rally?

can someone say "more important things?"

[parasim]

3. I hadn't heard about that...

... but I'm going to check into it.

The chilling thing is, the "hoo-ah" thing was something that the soldiers at the Rumsfeld/Meyers road show last week in Iraq were all yelling when Rummy came up to speak. "Come on, let's hear a hoo-ah that'll shake the marble!" somebody said when he came up to the podium. yikes!

[markses]

4. Hoo-ah is, of course, a traditional

esprit de corps response.

I thought it was once limited to only Airborne, but now apparently all Army use it. (Hence Al Pacino's "hoo-ah" in Scent of a Woman).

[southpaw]

5. I didn't hear the "hoo-ah"

But I have only listened a couple of times, focusing mostly on the last snippet before the audio ends. If it is there (hoo-ah) it is said quitely...

[writekid]

6. not enough for me

sounds can be added in post production. however, i did hear some interesting talk about the suspiciously scant amount of blood. where was the splattering? some think he was already dead when the beheading occurred. think about it. why wouldn't they want to show the actual act?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Forget all the conspiracy theories.

Just look at the timing of the video release.

Who benefited?

[HawkerHurricane]

10. Absolutely!

Whoever murdered Nick Berg timed it in such a way that it HELPED Bush's poll numbers. Which tells me that either

a. They wanted to help Bush's poll numbers
or
b. They're idiots

Now, the why(s) of possibility 'a' are what get interesting (and more speculative).

[QC]

12. How did it help Bush's poll numbers?

Is there some new poll that the rest of us here haven't seen?

[HawkerHurricane]

13. He got a blip.

It wasn't much, and might have prevented free fall... Yes, I know, he's behind Kerry and getting behinder, but it did shore up his base.

[0007]

49. The video kept junior from dropping, it stopped the bleeding for a moment

[WoodrowFan]

14. choice C

that they don't give a rat's ass if it helps Bush of not. Not everything in the world revolves around the US election. I see the same logical error here time and time again, if someone sees a benefit to Bush then it must be that Bush did it. Life is NOT a zero sum game where the person who benefits the most is the person responsible.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. While I agree generally,

this video didn't come out in a vacuum. It came out just as the torture pics were being released and the heat was getting very hot. Is it proof? Nope. Is it highly suspicious? Yep. Taken into context with the fact that the heat was being applied to intelligence services, the same IS that could produce said video, it doesn't pass the smell test. All I can say is that my bullshit detector went off the scale the moment I heard of the video, let alone saw it.

[HawkerHurricane]

19. I never said Bush did it...

nor that he arranged it, or anything else. I just said he benefited. The people who did it either knew he benefited and did it that way on purpose, or didn't know and are fools.

[Cooley Hurd]

85. BTW Hawk...

...nice pic of the 'urrikin! :thumbsup:

[jobycom]

37. Did more than help poll numbers, it killed the Abu Graib momentum

Rumsfield was in serious trouble. People were making links to Bush. The Berg video slowed the momentum of that story, and has allowed them to obfuscate, twist, lie, and no telling what else, so that now Abu Graib is just about the grunts and the courts martial, not about Bush.

Having said that, just because someone benefits from an action doesn't mean the action was planned for their benefit. Just because politics matter to us doesn't mean they would matter to a frustrated insurgent trying to drive an invader from his home. America has had three presidents since the last invasion of Iraq, and things have not improved. While some Iraqis may grasp the political situation here, others just see the whole country as a nation that has to be defeated and expelled.

So I guess what I'm saying is I would add a 'c' to your list-- they don't think Bush is the only problem, so they don't care what happens to his poll numbers.

[bullimiami]

87. Remember

The Iraqis have been actually finding out who they had.
They have been releasing non-hostiles.

This looks like these characters decided to reenact the Pearl killing with a little extra.

[southpaw]

9. Welcome to DU, writekid...

There's been a hell of a lot of talk around here about various elements of the beheading that were suspect... blood spray (or the lack thereof) being one of the more convincing anomolies..

This one (the 'english words') is one I had not heard yet...

[hexola]

7. Do you think the 5 "terrorists" are soldiers or prisoners?

I wonder if the "terrorists" are not prisoners forced at gunpoint to do the deed for the cameras...?

[southpaw]

11. I have no idea who they are...

But I doubt they were forced at gunpoint to do what they did... they seemed to be all gung-ho about it.

[Cooley Hurd]

83. OMG! Lynndie was doing a Buddy Jesus in the pics!!!!

Who knew she's a Kevin Smith fan? :shrug::evilgrin:

[WoodrowFan]

15. I thought you heard Satan saying "Led Zep rocks!" (NT)

[funkybutt]

36. HAHA

maybe we should listen to it backwards

[Q]

17. Copying the last several seconds of audio...

...I converted it to AIFF format and brought it into Sound Studio. Filtering out the background noise...I was able to isolate the voices. It does indeed seem that they're saying exactly the quoted words. If what I'm hearing is correct..it's indeed the voice(s) of an American.

[Fuzz]

20. Can you upload that for us somewhere?

[Q]

30. I don't have the capability of uploading...

...But I have to say that I 'experimented' again...this time adding 'noise gates' to the audio. I then had a neighbor listen to the audo without telling him anything about the origin. I asked him to write down what he 'thought' he heard. He also thought he heard an (english) voice saying that which has already been quoted.

- Even if we can't discern the exact words...it's clear that these voices are not that of 'Arabs' . They are Americans speaking behind the scenes at the end of the video...unaware that their voices are being recorded as part of the background noise.

[Az]

21. Careful

Play it to someone that has not read this thread or been told what to expect. There is a very well known ability of the mind to impose form on chaos when instructed what to expect. Think of it like clouds in the sky. You know that cloud is not really shaped like a duck but as soon as someone says it looks like one you can't get it out of your head.

[seabeyond]

23. absolutely

like the ear/finger post. said it was ear and looked like ear, until i saw it was a finger. and now so looks like finger, grinnin. but was just sure was an ear for a moment

[seabeyond]

22. out of this whole thread someone checked it out

thanks q. i cant do all that, but will see if husband will do tonight. i am thinking, kinda significant

[Q]

41. It takes a bit of effort to find the right filters and noise gates...

...but it's well worth the time.

- It's still hard to distinguish some words...but certain words, like 'that' and 'how we gonna' and the softer 'hoo-ah' stand out from the rest.

- Frankly...I had never listened to the very end of the video before because it just sounded like background noise. But sometimes it takes someone to point these things out before they're studied in detail.

- I'd like to hear from others who have the ability to 'clean up' audio and get their impressions.

[parasim]

58. see my reply #57

I did clean up the audio and tried to figure out what was being said.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. I hear that, and it makes sense.

Initially, some thought it was "Thy will be done," but there are too many syllables. The intonation wasn't right for the phrase, and it seemed an implausible remark.

"How wicked was that....huh?" It not only sounds like it to me, but it sounds like something a perpetrator would say.

If you want to hear for yourself, here's a sample of the final seconds of the audio, with increasing levels of volume:

http://www.breakfornews.com/berg-thywillbedone.mp3

[Az]

25. Sorry

I cannot agree.

The first comment is indistiguishable and the second one has a different rythm to it.

What I do see happening here is similar to the the back masking scandals. People were listening to all manner of records struggling to hear messages contained in them. After they were told what to listen for they would here it. In trut there was often nothing there.

The mind is a very effective device for finding patterns. Unfortunately it evolved with a tendency to favor finding in the positive rather than the negative. To understand this consider two cave men peering into the jungle. He thinks he sees a shadow moving in its depths. The one that has a mind better suited to spotting patterns will bolt assuming it is a predator. The one that is shall we say skeptical will stick around to investigate further only to have confirmation served up by the presense of a saber tooth tiger chewing on his leg.

Conduct a blind experiment with this sound bite. Play it to someone that has no idea what it is about. Ask them what they think it is.

The link provided above shows exactly how you would sway a person into believing they heard what you wanted them to. Its a text book case of forcing an image into a persons mind. It even includes the mock skepticism which helps to make a person think they discovered the message.

[seabeyond]

26. was it english

or another language

[Az]

27. From what I heard I cannot determine what it was

There is simply not enough evidence. The trouble is now that the idea of what is being heard is in the public's mind any attempts to improve the quality of the sound bite will favor confirming this claim. There are a multitude of things that can be done to sculpt a sound.

It may very well be what is being claimed here. But the evidence we have is too shabby. There is too much psychology at play in this situation to see this as evidence.

Until this is cleared up in some manner this is evidence of nothing. It needs to be approached rationally and without bias. And we may have to accept that it is just Arabic muttering that matches vocal patterns of phrases we are familiar with.

[seabeyond]

28. ya well husband doesnt buy into conspiracy

he doesnt know what was talked here,. and he knows how to do this stuff. and i trust him. so will let him see.

thanks though az
appreciate

[Q]

32. It's no wonder you can't determine anything from 'what you've heard'...

...because you're listening to the raw audio. It's strange how posters like you dismiss these things out of hand because of 'psychology'.

- This will never be 'cleared up' unless people like DUers continue to tear it apart and examine it piece by piece. I've worked in video and audio production for several decades and I can tell you one thing for sure. These are the voices of Americans. How do I know? Because there are simple audio techniques where background noises can be reduced within a certain decibel and frequency range...forcing relevant audio to the front.

- The voices are that of Americans. You can argue about WHAT they are saying...but not WHO IS saying it.

[jobycom]

34. If it's that convincing, take it to your local media station

Play it for them, show them what you are hearing. Might just get something started.

[Az]

39. When you modify sound

You always run the risk of changing the content. I am not unexperienced in sound work. I used to do work as a sound technician.

When you pass a sound file through filters you are attempting to filter out what YOU do not want there. Typically we know the original sound source so our bias is in line with what is present on the file. We mold the sound to fit what we expect. But when you the source is unknown and we begin filtering sound files looking for messages and content you bring your own biases into the picture.

Now I have not listened to the audio you created. I do not know the techniques you used to create it. There are any number of explanations for what you believe you are hearing. If we could get someone to open and FTP server for you to upload the files to that would help us evaluate this on the same page as it were.

This is not to say in any way that what you have discovered is not the truth. It is only to say that you do not have conclusive evidence. There are too many potential entry points for errors in your analysis. This does not mean we give up and walk away. It means we have to examine it closer and maintain a clear methodology free of any bias. We keep digging.

And as to what I can or cannot argue about the very idea that you cannot argue about something is the hallmark of dogmatic thinking. Not a good way to initiate a rational search for the truth.

[jobycom]

44. Just so you two don't get frustrated

Some of us are reading both of your explanations. Good discussion.

[alfredo]

31. Is there an Arab Linguist in the house?

I am reserving judgment.

[ArkDem]

69. I'm a cunning linguist.....

close enough?

[alfredo]

74. As long as you learned your skills at Monterrey.

Or points south.

[parasim]

57. I agree with you

Before I listened to this mp3 where the guy is saying that they say "Thy will be done", I captured the audio from the original video that I downloaded the day it surfaced.

That audio clip is way too persuasive in getting people to think what they want them to think. and certainly can be misleading.


Anyway, here's the results of my little test.
(btw, I've been doing sound design/editing for going on 2 decades now, so I pretty much know what I'm doing)

I captured it in 24bit to get the best possible sample from the already compressed track in the video clip.

I then applied a number of filters, including compression, a fat EQ and a noise gate and played around with the parameters. I want to play around with a little more but here's my first pass thoughts on it:

- As far as I can discern, the words spoken are "How's that?" then ha... hoo... (i didn't hear hoo-ah) then something like "how we da" then it cuts off.

- "How's that?" is as plain as day to me, the rest can be made to sound like whatever I want it to. it could be "How we gon..." Now we done?"

- Although I agree that it does sound like a western voice, I also know that I was expecting that going in, so perhaps I've been too predisposed to hear that.


I agree that people can be preconditioned to hear what you want them to, so I plan to further my little test later when my son comes home work by having him listen to it and tell me what he hears. a blind test. if anything. I am not going to say anything about it before hand.

I'll try to come back here and post my findings.

[reprobate]

29. Sounded to me like: "Now we're done".

[Lou_C]

33. They are built like Americans

They do not have the physique of "terrorists" that have been hiding out and living on barely any food.

[jobycom]

40. All terrorists look alike?

Iraq wasn't some starving nation before we invaded. And Iraq is becoming a mercenary magnet, like Afghanistan or Chiapas. Our racist stereotypes of Muslims make us believe that all Muslims are the swarthy males Ann Coulter wanted to stripsearch. Look at the pictures of the Chechnyan president who was assassinated. He was barrel-chested and pale skinned. Saddam was chubby. The 9-11 "mastermind" (forgot his name) was chubby. There are plenty of well-fed angry people in Iraq. Iraq is a melting pot of Iraqis, Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Caucasians from the Caucasis region (no idea on the right spelling), etc.

We got used to seeing pictures of Taliban Pashtu from Afghanistan. They are very tall, and very thin, often. But they aren't the only "terrorists."

I'm not saying that proves anything, only that the appearance of hooded men in black suits with bad lighting and grainy exposure doesn't prove nationality.

[Az]

43. What people are reacting to is not specifically their look

Its more their body language. Because we percieve body language on a more subconscious level we have difficulty putting our perception into words. We only know that they do not "look" how we expect them too.

Their body language in fact is more in keeping with western societies. The fidgety actions and inability to stand still are more in keeping with westerners brought up on a steady diet of TV and the resultant ADHD that so plagues our society.

This evidence is not conclusive and merely indicitive. It suggests where we should look for more evidence.

[jobycom]

47. I get that

I'd just need to see someone who is an expert on the body postures and language of all possible Muslim groups, first. I have (or used to) a lot of Muslim friends from the Middle East, from different regions. I didn't notice any particular stationary quality to them. Many fidgeted during long lectures, they twirled pencils when they were nervous. They reacted much like Americans do to given situations. I didn't notice any subconscious discomfort on my part with the way they moved or stood. They spoke more deliberately, but that was because they were speaking a second or third language.


Great explanation, though. Thanks.

[Az]

48. Just guessing here but

Your muslim friends are probably living here in the states. They have probably even been exposed to the same culture you have and will exhibit many of the cutlural traits you do as some that survive within their family traits as well.

It is entirely possible that the attackers were muslims such as from Chalibi's entourage. They had lived in exile for years and could very much be expected to exhibit such traits.

[jobycom]

51. Some

Most were students who were here for a few years until returning home. A couple were residents or citizens here. How long does one have to be in America before they start standing like Americans?

[Az]

54. That is a pretty wide variable

It would hinge upon how much they embrace our culture and how much they reject their own. It would be further dependent on how close knit their ties are to various subgroups over here and their particular practices and habits.

[jobycom]

59. When you get that subjective

your previous argument falls apart. There are plenty of places in the Middle East to watch television, eat sugar-laden products (sugar is an Arabic word, I think), and do whatever it is that makes Americans ADHD and have short attention spans and all that.

For that matter, you put people in front of a camera, and they are going to pose the way they see other people in front of cameras posing.

I'm not dismissing any arguments on who is behind this, but I don't believe the shape or posture of hooded, black-robed men in a badly light, grainy film is evidence. Too much like profiling for my taste.

[ElementaryPenguin]

35. Thanks for your work - this thing gets stinkier by the moment!

I was convinced already by the rest of the evidence, and if this is what you believe...holy shit!

[ArkDem]

38. I distinctly heard the white chair say

"Four more years....".

[Q]

45. Perhaps the 'chair' is saying 'four more years'...

...because it knows America is too afraid of the truth to ask the tough questions?

[ArkDem]

56. Hard to say. It's been my experience that chairs tend to

speak first and think later.

[John_H]

63. Then it says,

"Man, y'all are as white as me. So knock off the nose wiping--it's un-Islamic. And don't you know desert dwellers don't have those fancy watches, do not tie their scarves in white-boy fashion, or speak Russian or English, or non-Jordanian or whatever you guys are speaking? So take off that gold ring, you fat western fuck. how wicked was that. Hooah."

[ArkDem]

64. No. No. Chairs might take part, at times, in looney conspiracies

but they will never speak of them.

[Ripley]

67. ROFLMAO!

Now that is the funniest thing I've read in weeks! Thanks.

[paritom]

42. 2 lefties

Thanks for posting this!
I listened to the "original" version of the video (wary of audio being added in) and there are clearly a couple voices with American accent, rhythm and intonation at the very end. What they say is less important then the fact they are there.

Also, while the islamic taboo against using the left hand generally concerns shaking hands, touching food and offering things to somebody, I find it odd that two of the terrorists (the two on the right)touch their own face with their left hand (a couple of times each). 2 out 5 lefthanders?

[PotatoBoy]

46. I believe the Berg thing is fishy, but come on, guys

Do you honestly think that if these were Americans behind it, and these are American voices at the end, that they would've not cut them out? Do you think they just filmed this thing and uploaded it, without reviewing it? Come on. Anyone with even 1/4 a brain would've said "whoops, our voices are in there, let's cut that out."

Seriously.

[0007]

50. Were not dealing with the smartest administration! Have you forgotten?

After hearing the bumbling generals, and the cabinet members anything is possible.

These folks have less than 1/4 of a brain wouldn't you say?

[PotatoBoy]

61. Would you say this video was not approved by higher-ups?

Do you think this video would've been more professional looking if it had been run by higher-ups with a brain? Do you suppose that this video was a rush job done by puppets, and not approved by higher-ups?

[Desertrose]

62. my guess is they were told to "do" something to take the heat off *

to take the focus off the prison abuse & make Arabs look bad...so this is a western version of something to do just that...and gee, the Berg kid was poking around causing trouble anyway...so lets just do this....but we'll kill him fisrt cause even we don't really want to cut his head off while he's alive...tooo messy you know?

I swear from the track available to me, the last words sure sound like "what(re) we gon(na....)"...as in what are we gonna do now...next...with the body"...who knows??

Yes yes, I know...total speculation...but given bushco..unfortunately not really all that farfetched....
:shrug:


Peace
DR

[0007]

75. I don't know, but 'ya got to admit it was a sloppy job by sloppy

people that are feeling the pressure.

[Minstrel Boy]

53. But they run no risk of anyone but "fringe conspiracy theorists"

pointing these things out.

There's nothing and no one to hold them to account. They know they'll get away with it. So why shouldn't they rub our faces in it?

[Q]

55. You seem to have come to your own conclusions...

...about what the voices mean. You're also making the assumption that those who shot/edited this video were careful and professional.

- It appears that they rushed this video out without noticing the several seconds of background 'noise' at the end. Indeed....few noticed it until it was pointed out..so it's easy to believe the editors of this video overlooked it as well.

- The point is that there are indeed voices at the end of the video that APPEAR to be of western dialect. Can it be proven? Time will tell. The point is not to dismiss it out of hand simply because it's 'hard to believe'.

- The implications are frightening. And frankly...I'm not sure 'I' want to find out that Americans were involved.

[PotatoBoy]

60. We need a larger sample set

..in order to judge what language/dialect is being spoken here. Only then would we be able to start figuring out if it's English, or something else...

[ArkDem]

65. I hope you aren't living in your own private Idaho.

.

[PotatoBoy]

68. What's that supposed to mean? n/t

[ArkDem]

70. Your handle Potato Boy....The B-52's Private Idaho

Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo
You're living in your own Private Idaho
Living in your own Private Idaho
Underground like a wild potato.
Don't go on the patio.
Beware of the pool,
blue bottomless pool.
It leads you straight
right throught the gate
that opens on the pool.
You're living in your own Private Idaho.
You're living in your own Private Idaho.

Keep off the path, beware the gate,
watch out for signs that say "hidden driveways".
Don't let the chlorine in your eyes
blind you to the awful surprise
that's waitin' for you at
the bottom of the bottomless blue blue blue pool.

You're livin in your own Private Idaho. Idaho.
You're out of control, the rivers that roll,
you fell into the water and down to Idaho.
Get out of that state,
get out of that state you're in.
You better beware.

You're living in your own Private Idaho.
You're living in your own Private Idaho.

Keep off the patio,
keep off the path.
The lawn may be green
but you better not be seen
walkin' through the gate that leads you down,
down to a pool fraught with danger
is a pool full of strangers.

You're living in your own Private Idaho,
where do I go from here to a better state than this.
Well, don't be blind to the big surprise
swimming round and round like the deadly hand
of a radium clock, at the bottom, of the pool.

I-I-I-daho
I-I-I-daho
Woah oh oh woah oh oh woah oh oh
Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah
Get out of that state
Get out of that state
You're living in your own Private Idaho,
livin in your own Private.... Idaho

[PotatoBoy]

72. Ahh... hehe

Right :) No, I'm not living in my own private Idaho.. or Idaho at all for that matter. Thanks for the tune though. :)

[spooked]

71. Anyone with 1/4 a brain wouldn't take photos and videos of

US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners either, would they??

[PotatoBoy]

73. Definitely not

But soldiers did that..whether or not it was an order from higher up, I don't know. So I'm assuming this Berg video was put together by soldiers then, without guidance from anyone with intelligence.

[stavka]

66. The Complete Conspiracy

Our own Vince Foster Conspiracy? The death of Nick Berg gathered from about the net.

Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.

Iraqis, ours and theirs, who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?

Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity. Furthermore, numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.

A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. It seems there would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Might he have been killed in the video gap so as to save those pictured the horror of doing what a script called for? Might he have been dead already?

The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.

The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in at least 2 color photos taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair seem minimal, but I’m no expert on lawn furniture.

Several of the men in the film are fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Fedayeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.

Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be also hard pressed to find Arab or Pakistani men with pasty-white hands.

The eight Koranic uses of the Arabic word "slaughter" seem to be pretty much an agricultural or neutral use, as in slaughtering animals and thinning the herd, or killing the Prophet's female camel. No use of meaning either sanctioned execution or Divine sacrifice exists in Koran, so why use it in labeling a jihadist statement?

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=slaughter&size=Fir
st+100

Also seemingly inconsistent, from the original (Notably English) website according to this translation.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm (See bottom half of page)

The word "pagan" does not appear in the Koran, yet is used at the start of this aforementioned statement.

The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes, at least hopes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to confirm an alleged al-Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.

Firearms experts have stated the assault rifle carried by one man was a "Galil." This actually is an expensive and comparatively rare Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Fedayeen and other insurgents almost universally use the cheap, ubiquitous, and locally prevalent AK-47s.

The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law, and extremely unlikely for an Islamic fundamentalist, yet a probability for a middle aged Westerner or Israeli.

The murders appear to be wearing bulletproof vests, two are wearing a popular middle-eastern desert garment, the Ski mask; and one is wearing either clean tennis shoes or US styled khaki desert boots. All rather unusual for on-the-run terrorists in Iraq.

The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. Either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.

There appears to be a left ear and partial head briefly in the lower right frame during the brutal murder; that person may be wearing a khaki field cap typical of western regular armies and not guerillas.

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2004/180504militarycap.htm

Take two pieces of paper and write something, like “She sells seashells by the sea shore” on both sides of each in four different colors. Mimic the movements of the speaker and his paper flipping. You’d be amazed how many times you are reading from the same page or reading something upside down.

Does somebody say, “Thy Will Be Done.” or "How are we gonna..." In English at the end of the tape?

[Octafish]

78. Great first post!

A Wolverine, are ya?

A hearty welcome to DU, stavka! Where ya been?

[seabeyond]

79. i still oppose using orange suit as the same one issued by u.s.

it is not. the shine and material is different. it obviously isnt the same garmet, and there is so much other stuff to say. that they made it look like a prison suit says something, but hold firm, it is not an u.s. issued garmet.

the chair, was all over chabaladed (sp) house. even a foot thing and table, per husband. i say well, he was set up by america, but owuld like to see if that furnishure is sold in baghdad.

[ForrestGump]

88. Thanks for the wrap-up. I haven't kept up with the proliferating

suite of conspiracy theories here on DU, but here are a few items of Devil's advocacy that occur to me:

Language, body language, body structure, skin color, "he just seems American," etc -- Al Qaeda isn't comprised solely of Arabs. These people could very well be from Bosnia, or wherever, or even from some place like the UK or the good old USA, and still be legitimate Al Qaeda f***wits. And, of course, some Iraqis are overweight and certainly many Arabs are. Ditto with the pale skin.

Exsanguination -- weird things happen. Maybe the blood angled another way. I resisted seeing the video, so can't comment directly -- saw no point in seeing it because, though I'm sure I could handle it, why play around with something that may well mess my mind up forevermore? Anyway, the bottom line is that someone, dead or alive, was most likely decapitated and that someone was supposedly Mr Berg. Procedural details don't really change much in that respect, especially for the victim.

The orange jumpsuit -- could mean anything, and gets you into a wacky area of second-and third-guessing. Why would Americans faking this video overlook that glaring orange prison garb? Why would terrorists dress him up in it? The answers to those questions are moot in light of the fact that any of us could buy an orange prison jumpsuit via mail order.

The chair -- disingenuous to state that it's "standard issue military chair." It's also standard-issue Wal Mart chair.

The assault rifle -- you or I could go out and buy a Galil today. Factor in the local (and internayional) weapons black market and the likelihood that an Israeli assault rifle could easily be of the 'spoils of war' category and the alleged presence of this weapon becomes a red herring.

The gold ring -- some Islamic fundamentalists wear them. after all, where do you think all the jewels sought by the likes of Alladin and Ali Baba came from?

The bulletproof vests -- another item that you or I couold get hold of. Also another item obtainable as a very useful war trophy.

The ski mask -- a classic terrorist accessory, regardless of climate.

The white shoes -- am I given to understand that we're not even sure that these are athletic shoes? The white athletic shoe red herring was laughable -- these things are ubiquitous worldwide. "US styled khaki desert boots" is almost as silly a conspiracy clue...that style is widely available, and has been for a long time, and the actual boots could again have come to their owner's feet as war trophies or via the black market. That we're staking so much on pale shoes of indeterminate nature is beyond a joke.

The left ear -- or maybe a finger.

The English words -- (1) Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band; (2) Americans don't hold the monopoly on the language, and that includes accents.



Yes, there's a lot of fishy stuff here, but much is predicated on extremely tenuous or likely-bogus clues. And sometimes even a long series of coincidences is just a long series of coincidences. I wouldn't be surprised if the most dire projections and speculations arising from this footage prove true, but I think we need to be as little more open-minded (truly open-minded, including a healthy dose of skepticism and ability to see multiple conflicting possibilities, rather than straight simple-minded swallowing of the more outlandish ones) when considering this kind of evidence. The possibility that someone's vomited in the petunias here, and that this video indicates the blackest of US black ops, does not justify some of the more hysterical silliness that counterproductively swept this GD forum in the wake of the film's surfacing. It's one thing to explore all possibile dimensions of a suspected conspiracy and another to cling to the supposition of a conspiracy and attack anyone who questions aspects of that conviction or who offers alternate or complementary explanations.

[Octafish]

77. Kick to the pants of the BFEE

:kick:

[AngryAmish]

80. I'm sick of tinfoil this and tinfoil that

Everyone must ask themselves what they are doing to solve this mystery. Do you expect the truth from the nazis running this country?

[PotatoBoy]

81. Check it out.. idiot #4 trying really hard to cover his identity

Look at the video, at 2:42:26. Idiot #4 pulls the scarf a little tighter around his face. Seems pretty paranoid about revealing his identity eh?

[FreakinDJ]

82. Kick

[ForrestGump]

84. Paul is dead. I bury Paul.

Cranberry sauce....

Some Muslims speak English with an American accent, ya know.

[bullimiami]

86. Weekend at Abus'

I suspect maybe they tortured him to death.
With the arrests and the computer thing and whatever he might have seen at ABU and then lying about having had him in custody.
Then all of the lame lies about his whereabouts in Iraq.
And then the suspicious nature of the video.
Then Bushco declares it to be Zarqawi then its one of Saddams relatives.

Come the hell on.

I think the US spooks had him, toyed with him (ie beginning of video), tortured and killed him (maybe not intentionally but during 'interrogation') and then they decided to make "Weekend at Abus'" with his dead body.

a) gets them off the hook for the murder
b) makes a nice propaganda film for the reichwingers.