Berg was arrested twice in 2000 for trespassing at Oklahoma U.

[Minstrel Boy]

Some interesting stuff here from Michael Wright, in Oklahoma:

Today from the Norman city court clerk I obtained a document confirming that Nicholas E. Berg, who reportedly was decapitated by militants in Iraq, was arrested twice for trespassing on the University of Oklahoma campus during the spring of 2000. Earlier, OU police had reported that he had been sleeping on couches around the campus. He appeared to be living as a vagrant during that period. The OUPD actually contacted him six times.

...

...Are we to believe that someone would really voluntarily surrender his email password to a stranger he met on the bus? This is apparently the story which Berg told the FBI to account for the fact that the password and Berg's email address were on Moussaoui's computer when they searched it, after 9/11.

If Berg was the one who bought the ticket, then appearing to be a vagrant would have been a way to gain the trust of Al Qaeda, for infiltration purposes. They would be likely to trust someone who appeared to be a misfit and alienated from mainstream American society. Also, it has been reported that Berg had been in possession of anti-Semitic literature. That would be another tactic for gaining the trust of Al Qaeda.

How does one who was a vagrant in spring 2000 make the transition to independent businessman in Iraq, doing telecommunications work, in 2004?

http://www.jerrypippin.com/Wright_OP.htm

More here from Wright, on the ticket purchase:


Former Senator David Boren is currently president of the University of Oklahoma in Norman, where I reside. In the fall of 2001, I was talking to an OU library employee who told me that she was present when an FBI agent was interviewing her colleague. From this encounter she learned that an OU library computer terminal had been used for an online purchase of an airline ticket for a 9/11 hijacker who was on the plane which crashed in Pennsylvania. She also told me that the person who made the purchase had not been a hijacker. Contrary to expectation, he was a white American male, but he knew he was assisting the hijacking operation.

http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/sting.html

[Bronco69]

1. This story just keeps getting

wierder and wierder.

[VOX]

114. Isn't that the truth?

Who knows where this will end...

[DulceDecorum]

116. GlobalFreePress asks:

Did Berg work for the CIA?

Nick Berg and Oklahoma: Student only in 1999, CIA link?
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=244
plus more on moussaoui, boren, edger etc...

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=252
Nick Berg's OK and Trespassing Records

[ewagner]

2. I won't believe this

until there are second, independent sources......

[Minstrel Boy]

13. I understand why you'd want to wait for a second source, but

the problem is there are precious few people in America doing true investigative reporting. Too many important stories never get a first source, let alone a second.

Consider Daniel Hopsicker (the madcow link in my sig line), whose work on the Florida connection to 9/11 is unrivalled, simply because nobody else is in the field and on the case. He's unearthed and compiled a number of very serious and disturbing facts by going to primary sources - for instance, he's the only reporter to have a sit-down interview with Atta's stripper girlfriend. No one else, certainly not the corporate media, is doing his work. And though he's a sole source, his work remains verifiable via paper trails and tapes of interviews.

When we have just a single source, I think this is an important standard: is it verifiable?

[wtmusic]

21. You're right, any non-mainstream alt sources are buried

No one wants to take a chance on being wrong. The corporate way. A stripper's testimony? It's a long shot, but could be valuable info.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Hopsicker is one of my favorite sources of information on the alleged....

...hijackers. You're correct...he is REALLY good at what he does.

The stuff the disturbs me even more about the hijackers is the fact that at least five to six of them attended U. S. military schools. That implies strongly that they were ALREADY OFFICERS IN THE MILITARY OF ANOTHER COUNTRY. Since we're being told that fifteen of the alleged hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, what are we to make of the sum of this data? Were the Saudis working with the NeoCons all along?

[wtmusic]

18. Yep

Fever's running a little high

[maddezmom]

3. it just keeps getting stanger and stranger

what was that commentreported in an interview on CNN, Nick's father said something about AQ killing their best friend? Yikes

[nonconformist]

5. I keep thinking about that comment too

Curious and curiouser.

[Flubadubya]

7. He said Iraq was killing its best friend...

not Al Qaeda. Just FYI. :)

[maddezmom]

9. thanks, thought I saw a quote that said AQ

[freeforall]

34. I saw the quote as well

It said "Al Quaida" and I was astonished that Nick's father would say that, and wondered what was going on. I was surprised to see that there wasn't anything on the news about it.

[mzmolly]

44. I thought he said "Iraqis killed their best friend"

Not AQ.

[Minstrel Boy]

47. "The al Qaeda that killed my son didn't know what they were doing. They

killed their best friend."
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/13/iraq.berg/

[mzmolly]

50. Ok ... but in it's entirety.

Berg's father said Thursday his son was someone who simply wanted to "help people, not to hurt anyone." "He was not disrespectful of danger, he just didn't recognize danger in people," Michael Berg said. "The al Qaeda that killed my son didn't know what they were doing. They killed their best friend. Nick was there to build Iraq, not to tear it down."

I think he was speaking about Nick Berg's intentions in Iraq.:shrug:

[Minstrel Boy]

51. Yes, I think you're right about that.

But the "they" in "they killed their best friend" refers back to "al Qaeda." Which still strikes me as peculiar.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

4. This absolutely reeks, MB.

I won't draw any conclusions yet, but the evidence is certainly pushing us in one nasty, nasty direction.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. There's more to this Berg story than the official public line.

You would have to be certifiably insane to be an American and a Jew and then suddenly decide to go bum around Iraq and look for work. It just don't add up.

[Eloriel]

8. Boren - CIA ties

Found this info in Comments on Marc Perkel's site:


I have no idea who killed him, but the reason given for Nick Berg's being in Iraq sounds odd all right. Are small businessmen sneaking into Iraq in droves, anticipating business opportunities? Not hardly.

Radio communications does sound like a good cover for an agent. It would get you access to places, communications technology, and opportunities to place surveillance equipment.

Curiouser and curiouser: Nick Berg studies for "a few weeks" at the University of Oklahoma in Norman, OK. Coincidentally, Zacharias Moussaoui studies at a flight school in Norman, OK. Berg coincidentally happens to lend his computer, and give his password, to an "acquaintance" of Moussaoui (first reported by the family to be Moussaoui himself, but the FBI says they never met).

Following the WTC disaster in which Moussaoui supposedly was set to be involved, the U.S. invades Iraq (non sequitur). Berg travels to Iraq, visits the prison where military intelligence is interrogating Iraqi prisoners, later gets picked up himself and is killed on tape.

Is it a coincidence that the president of the University of Oklahoma, David L. Boren, is a former U.S. Senator and Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee with extensive, continuing right-wing and CIA connections? See http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=David_L._Boren and read down to quoted article by Michael Phillip Wright. (Wright elsewhere has written that based on a conversation with a University librarian, in his view confirmed by the results of a FOIA request to the FBI, one of the hijackers' tickets was purchased via a machine at the OK University library.)

Finally, is it a coincidence that Norman, OK, is only about 7 miles out of Oklahoma City, site of the Federal Center bombing?

Just asking. Seems like Oklahoma crops up a lot for sparsely populated state. Correct me if I have any factual errors in here.

Posted by: Ex-Fed at May 14, 2004 11:25 PM
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html
http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html

[maddezmom]

12. who is Davis S. Doran ? cuz he has a few ties to al-Taee

http://www.cfr.org/bio.php?meety=&id=8907&puby=2003

[jean]

15. David L Boren - spookier yet - the mentor of CIA's Tenet???

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=David_L._Boren

'Transferred from file David Boren:

Former U.S. Senator David Boren, now the president of the University of Oklahoma, is called the mentor of CIA director George J. Tenet. Boren is also interesting because during 2001 Zacarias Moussaoui spent six months in Norman, home of OU, and was taking flight lessons there before he moved to Minneapolis, where he was arrested and later charged with terrorism. He was also receiving wire transfers from the Hamburg Al Qaeda cell while in Norman. Additionally, in August 2001 Boren arranged for CIA officer David Edger to have a visiting professor appointment at OU. Edger had earlier been in charge of CIA surveillance over the Hamburg Al Qaeda cell, which included lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta.

When the Minneapolis FBI was asking headquarters for permission to examine Moussoui's computer in August 2001, Tenet's CIA assisted them in their obstruction of a search which may have yielded information to unravel the 9/11 plot before the attack took place. Readers are invited to see these articles where I explore the odd events involving these four men:

Global Free Press 03/08/03 (this link would not work for me)

My AOL Journal, Michael Wright, Norman, Oklahoma

[maddezmom]

19. Boren and Tenet were having breakfast together on 9/11

`snip~
After the terrorist attacks of 2001, it was learned that whistle blowers at the Federal Bureau of Investigation had approached the CIA beforehand to warn about possible suicide hijackers, having gone nowhere with their warnings to superiors at the Bureau. But, Tenet failed to sound the alarm, too, possibly because the FBI agents hadn't followed proper protocol.

Tenet was having breakfast with former Sen. David Boren (D-OK) on the morning of September 11, 2001 when they were told of the World Trade Center being hit by airliners. Tenet, excusing himself, remarked that the attacks had Osama bin Laden's signature on them. Then he asked himself aloud if the attacks might have had anything to do with that guy in Minnesota (accused "20th hijacker" Zacarias Moussaoui) who wanted to learn how to fly planes.

When it comes to preventing an attack on the United States, protocol be damned.
http://www.politicsol.com/dailybriefing/pf/2003-07-13pf.html

another Bizarro coincidence???

[Minstrel Boy]

25. "another Bizarro coincidence???"

Sure, why not? What's another coincki-dink gonna matter? Nobody notices, and if they do, we'll call 'em crazy conspiracy nuts. Pile it on!

[Minstrel Boy]

35. Boren wrote the National Security Education Act of 1991,

establishing the National Security Education Program (http://nsep.aed.org/index.html). I wonder whether Berg had a relationship to the NSEP?

FYI, Boren's also a Director of American Airlines and Texas Instruments. Guy has fingers in a lot of pies. (Or is he, rather, up to his elbows in one big pie?)

[WHAT]

85. then there's the put options...

prior to 9/11...American Airlines and prior to that United Airlines which is tied-in by Kru (can't remember his name) but tied to Tenet:

http://www.careers.state.gov/officer/how.html FTW

it seems like there are relationships here. :shrug:

[Aries]

103. "Buzzy" Krongard

a fact that deserves to be remembered:

Suppressed Details of Criminal Insider Trading Lead Directly into the CIA’s Highest Ranks

http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html

CIA Executive Director “Buzzy” Krongard managed firm that handled “PUT” options on United Airline Stock

by Michael C. Ruppert

"...Until 1997 A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard had been Chairman of the investment bank A.B. Brown. A.B. Brown was acquired by Banker’s Trust in 1997. Krongard then became, as part of the merger, Vice Chairman of Banker’s Trust-AB Brown, one of 20 major U.S. banks named by Senator Carl Levin this year as being connected to money laundering. Krongard’s last position at Banker’s Trust (BT) was to oversee “private client relations.” In this capacity he had direct hands-on relations with some of the wealthiest people in the world in a kind of specialized banking operation that has been identified by the U.S. Senate and other investigators as being closely connected to the laundering of drug money.

Krongard joined the CIA in 1998 as counsel to CIA Director George Tenet. He was promoted to CIA Executive Director by President Bush in March of this year. BT was acquired by Deutsche Bank in 1999. The combined firm is the single largest bank in Europe. And, as we shall see, Deutsche Bank played several key roles in events connected to the September 11 attacks...

also:

"...A September 21 story by the Israeli Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism, entitled “Black Tuesday: The World’s Largest Insider Trading Scam?” documented the following trades connected to the September 11 attacks:

- Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options… Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these “insiders” would have profited by almost $5 million.

- On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance;… Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent “insiders,” they would represent a gain of about $4 million.

- (The levels of put options purchased above were more than six times higher than normal.)

- No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.

- Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6. Morgan Stanley’s share price fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks. Assuming that 2,000 of these options contracts were bought based upon knowledge of the approaching attacks, their purchasers could have profited by at least $1.2 million. Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw 12,215 October $45 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in those shares had been 252 contracts per day . When trading resumed, Merrill’s shares fell from $46.88 to $41.50; assuming that 11,000 option contracts were bought by “insiders,” their profit would have been about $5.5 million.

- European regulators are examining trades in Germany’s Munich Re, Switzerland’s Swiss Re, and AXA of France, all major reinsurers with exposure to the Black Tuesday disaster.

On September 29, 2001 – in a vital story that has gone unnoticed by the major media – the San Francisco Chronicle reported, “Investors have yet to collect more than $2.5 million in profits they made trading options in the stock of United Airlines before the Sept. 11, terrorist attacks, according to a source familiar with the trades and market data...."

[Minstrel Boy]

17. Boren is CFR and S&B, got Tenet his job, and helped him keep it!

In the legislative branch, a number of Rhodes scholars and Skull & Bones members have been in Congress, and former U.S. Senator David Boren (CFR member) is both a Rhodes scholar and Skull & Bones member, who on August 26, 1992 wrote an article in The New York Times advocating a rapid deployment force for the U.N. to facilitate "the new world order." During the Clinton presidency, Sen. Boren as a Rhodes scholar persuaded President Clinton to make George Tenet head of the CIA, and then Sen. Boren as a Skull & Bones member persuaded fellow Bonesman President George W. Bush to keep Tenet in that important position.
http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/03-18-04/discussion.cgi.77.html

David Boren has been president of the University of Oklahoma since 1994, the year of his resignation from the U.S. Senate. He had been Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and in 1987 appointed George Tenet to be its chief of staff. This appointment launched Tenet on the career path which led to his being named CIA director in 1997. Columnist John Curtis discloses the fact that Tenet had no military, criminal justice, or spy experience when Boren gave him his job.
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/sting.html

[mzmolly]

48. Wow. This is all so very strange.

:(

[ladjf]

26. Boren is a member of the Skull and Bones fraternity.

No tinfoil hat story, just a curious fact.

[SpiralHawk]

82. And so is Temporary's Uncle, Jonathan Bush

who is president and CEO of Riggs Bank -- which has been much in the news lately, having been fined $25 million for - basically -- laundering money for Saudi's with terrorist connections.

Temprary (George AWOL Bush), his father, his grandfather, and his Uncle Jonathan -- like Boren -- are all Skull & Boners.

But that, of couse, is all just a coincidence. So any lurking media should -- as usual -- ignore all this, and make haste to inform the public about the latest twist in the Kobe trial.

[Generator]

53. Links to OKC bombing/middle eastern terrorists and 9/11?

All very fascinating..when I was doing research on 9/11, the name Jayna Davis came up.

http://www.jaynadavis.com/crogan1.html

If you have time to go down the rabbit hole....

[theHandpuppet]

97. Local TV News (NBC4) in D.C....

... reported (accompanying the announcement of Berg's death) that he was a well-known figure among the relatively small radio-communications engineering community in the capital area, having received several contracts for work here despite his curious background. Though at least one of these contracts consisted of simply painting an antenna that was so high few were willing to climb it. Anyhoo, just noting this since he did have contacts in the D.C. community.

Don't know what to think of this whole sorry affair and although I have genuine sympathy for his grieving family, something is truly amiss here.

[Minstrel Boy]

108. August 2001 Boren arranges for the CIA agent surveilling the Hamburg cell

to have a visiting professorship appointment to Oklahoma University.

Former U.S. Senator David Boren, now the president of the University of Oklahoma, is called the mentor of CIA director George J. Tenet. Boren is also interesting because during 2001 Zacarias Moussaoui spent six months in Norman, home of OU, and was taking flight lessons there before he moved to Minneapolis, where he was arrested and later charged with terrorism. He was also receiving wire transfers from the Hamburg Al Qaeda cell while in Norman. Additionally, in August 2001 Boren arranged for CIA officer David Edger to have a visiting professor appointment at OU. Edger had earlier been in charge of CIA surveillance over the Hamburg Al Qaeda cell, which included lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta.
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=David_Boren

[robbedvoter]

10. Unlike his dad, Nick was a Bush supporter. keep that in mind.

[kentuck]

11. I need to know more about this...

?????

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

16. Yeah, what happened to those two "Israelis" in the van in Tennessee??

That were turned over to the INS ?? Any more news about that?

[seabeyond]

20. nada that i have heard.

?

this is a different type leader in isreal, and is complementary in using the violent warmongering religion, not the pure, lite, love approach. the ends justify the means kinda guy. i dont trust him anymore than bush

[starroute]

39. Berg's partner Aziz and the 1994 crack vial case

The people commissioning the crack vials that Aziz got in trouble for manufacturing were apparently Russian-Jewish crime figures in the Philadelphia area.

I've spent the last few days trying to sort out the connections between the Russian Mafiya, the Israeli Mafia, and the Russian immigrant underworld in the New York and Philadelphia area. They all seem to be connected to some degree, but the exact relationships are far from clear.

The Israeli Mafia is heavily involved in drug smuggling (they largely control the Ecstasy trade), money laundering, and South African diamonds. (The diamond trade is one area where it's easy to do money laundering.) They're also setting up shop in Las Vegas.

The Russian and Russian-Jewish immigrant gangs seem to be more into petty scams, like credit card fraud and crooked moving companies. However, many of the Russian Jewish immigrants have dual US-Israeli citizenship, which helps them duck out of legal trouble here. And there are some cases, like the recent Tennessee one, which involve both moving van companies and actual Israelis.

No matter how it all adds up, the bottom line is that these are very strange people for an Iraqi businessman like Aziz to have been involved with.

[spanone]

67. Here's story about it .......strange

http://www.madcowprod.com/index55bb.html

[PaDUer]

23. Might very well be..

I've read a few articles relating to this also.

[Nashyra]

28. I don't know where the post is but try and find the post that

idenified the first passenger killed on the Americans Airline Flight, the flight attendant called in the passenger seat and if I remember correctly he was some sort of Israeli covert?

[seabeyond]

29. interesting, huh, hadnt heard this

or if i did one of the zillion things and forgot. lol lol.

hm

[Minstrel Boy]

32. Hijackers of Flight 11 seated next to "an elite Israeli commando"

WASHINGTON -- In another tragic irony of Sept. 11, three of the five Islamic hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11 were seated next to an elite Israeli commando. And it may just have gotten that Jewish passenger killed before all the others.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26676

This is Daniel Lewin, who had gone on to found the Internet communication company Akamai:

U.S. attack: Akamai founder dies in World Trade Center crash

http://archive.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/11/010911hnlewin.xml

[robbedvoter]

37. "isreal" or isn't? was that a TV show? "Believe it or not?"

Outside of david Duke realm, we say "Israel". Pass it on.

[TNOE]

22. This is all sounding like a great mystery novel

I have suspected since last week that Berg was/is CIA/Mossaud

Speculations of the video being fake - probably true; obviously not muslims or arab executionors with white hands and big builds and shiney white sneakers, fake accents, etc.

Berg's picture really does not look very much like the Berg in the orange jumpsuit - and honestly that severed head looked fake to me too.

If the body returned without a head - how to identify? Did anyone do DNA tests?

I suspect Berg is really alive and well and living under another identity....... or he became a dispensible asset - but he is sounding very much like a spy to me. I hate to speak ill of the dead - but who knows - maybe he's not even dead. All we do know is once again we are being deceived.

[PaDUer]

64. I find it interesting that

the Berg family was denied the right to view their "dead" son's body, especially since the father has been so vocal..

[TNOE]

104. Wow, I totally forgot about that

thanks, just gets weirder and weirder.....

[ladjf]

24. David Boren is a member of the Skull and Bones frat.

I'm not implying any connection between Boren and Berg. But, it is true that Boren is a member of Skull and Bones.

[enough]

27. Wright's pages are worth looking at.

Thanks for this find, Minstrel Boy.

There is a LOT of material here, too much to take in right away, but a lot of "coincidences" centered around the University of Oklahoma, Moussaoui and other known Al Quaeda men, CIA, and 9/11.

Wright's theory is summarized in the heading of the article:
David Boren and George Tenet -- Was Their Bungled Sting Operation a Factor in the 9/11 Attack? He believes Tenet and Boren were trying to infiltrate Al Quaeda and wanted to keep other investigators away.

He seems to be quite well documented, with many links and footnotes.

Just a couple of tidbits:

snip>

CIA Agent David Edger Arrives as OU Visiting Professor in August 2001

CIA agent David Edger arrived on the OU campus in August 2001 to begin his duties as a visiting professor in the political science department. Up until that month he had responsibility for surveillance of the Al Qaeda cell in Germany, whose membership included Ramzi bin Al-Shibh (photo at right) , paymaster for the Al Qaeda organization, and Mohammed Atta, a hijacker on one of the airliners which crashed into the World Trade Center (WTC). Edger was described by The Norman Transcript as an "expert in intelligence collection, counterintelligence investigations, and political action" The newspaper also reports that he has directed espionage and counter-espionage activities. Edger was in Chile in 1973 when the CIA was overthrowing the Allende government. During the month of Edger's arrival in Norman, hijackers bought their 9/11 plane tickets.

Edger (photo at left) is a native Oklahoman whose appointment at OU was arranged by Boren , who also teaches a class in political science. During a speech in Tulsa , Edger expressed his interest in covert action and infiltration. Penetrating and manipulating terrorist cells was listed as a goal of CIA counterintelligence operations in a declassified CIA document approved for release in 1999. See page 21 of the document.

snip>

Tenet's CIA Influences FBI to Obstruct Search of (Moussaoui's) Computer

Tenet is able to influence the FBI, and in August 2001 did so in such a way as to assist the headquarters in its obstruction of the Moussaoui investigation. Time reported that the CIA at that time described Moussaoui as merely one having "extremist views." 15 Additionally, Tenet's CIA offered the misleading statement that information from the French "didn't say Al Qaeda or anything like that." In striking contrast, FBI agent Coleen Rowley's May 2002 letter to director Robert Mueller emphasized that the French had confirmed Moussaoui's "affiliations with radical fundamentalist groups and activities connected to Osama bin Laden" within five days of his arrest.

On the morning when the leisurely breakfast with his mentor Boren was interrupted by the news of the 9/11 attack, Tenet suddenly found his memory about the true identity of Moussaoui. The Washington Post reported a comment from this breakfast conversation: "I wonder," Tenet was overheard to say, "if it has anything to do with this guy taking pilot training." He was referring to Zacarias Moussaoui, who had been detained in August after attracting suspicion when he sought training at a Minnesota flight school.

more>

[Minstrel Boy]

30. The Boren-Tenet relationship and the Oklahoma connection

are certainly curious, and largely unexplored until now.

I don't agree with Wright's supposition that 9/11 was a "bungled sting" - there's too much evidence elsewhere that suggests it wasn't an intelligence failure, but a success - but he's dug up some important stuff.

[JayS]

33. It gets stranger. Listen to the audio clip about the current...

...state trial of Terry Nichols. That secret service agent does a great job of describing a tape that doesn't exist...not to mention the FBI listing as evidence nine tapes that don't exist...

And guess who was reported to be involved with the bombing investigation...Jamie Gorelick. That name sound familiar?


********************************************
Go to http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1846269 for a short (3:33) but interesting audio clip. Click on "All Things Considered audio" and you can listen in RealAudio or Windows Media.

Also of interest:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040419/ap_on_go_c ...

Document: Oklahoma City Bombing Was Taped
By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer
Mon Apr 19, 6:59 PM ET

WASHINGTON - A Secret Service document written shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing described security video footage of the attack and witness testimony that suggested Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) may have had accomplices at the scene.

"Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation 3 minutes and 6 seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service reported six days after the attack on a log of agents' activities and evidence in the Oklahoma investigation.

*SNIP*

An entry a day earlier on the same log reported that the security video was consistent with a witness' account that he saw McVeigh's getaway car in the lead before a woman guided the truck to its final parking spot in front of the Murrah building.

"A witness to the explosion named Grossman claimed to have seen a pale yellow Mercury car with a Ryder truck behind it pulling up to the federal building," the log said. The witness "further claimed to have seen a woman on the corner waving to the truck."

A Secret Service agent named McNally "noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the Federal Building and then pausing (7 to 10 seconds) before resuming into the slot in front of the building," the log said. "It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."

*SNIP*

[starroute]

42. So do we need to look more closely at the OKC bombing?

OKC has been mostly been an area for right-wing tinfoil-hattery. The left has tended to stay away from it because it looks like an attempt to shift blame onto brown-skinned folk instead of white supremacists. In particular, Judicial Watch has kept trying to blame the Oklahoma City bombing on Iraq. See http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/newsletter/2002/0502b.shtml

However, the affiliations of the figures cited by Judicial Watch as proving an Iraq connection are far more problematic. See, for example, http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/forms/11-gulfwar.html :

According to computer security expert, Peter Kiwaja, the CIA was deeply involved in the pre-war planning for chemical and biological warfare in the Gulf War. On The Zoh Show on October 10, 1995 Kiwaja related how he was contracted to supply a "computer based security system for PIT, Product Ingredient Technology, of Ishan Barbouti International (IBI) in Boca Raton Florida." Ishan Barbouti, who has since died of an alleged heart attack, was an Iraqi national who constructed Libya's chemical and biological weapons plant, Pharma 150. According to Kiwaja, the residential West Palm Beach PIT plant was conducting more than the above-board food processing business -- hydrogen cyanide, otherwise known as Prussian Blue, was also being developed there and tested for war theater gas masks. Kiwaja took his discoveries to the CIA and U.S. Customs and was recruited under a code name to find out as much as he could. "The Government told me that they were international terrorists," and yet, "as I was proceeding with my rapid deployment team, which was comprised of combat vets who were stationed throughout Texas and Oklahoma," said Kiwaja, "we began to encounter FBI counter intelligence and U.S. Intelligence involved with the same people that I was reporting to the CIA."

And the Barbouti trail also leads in other provocative directions -- see http://www.prop1.org/legal/prisons/92wack.htm :

As reported on ABC's Nightline last year, the three companies in which Barbouti invested were TK-7 of Oklahoma City, which makes a fuel additive; Pipeline Recovery Systems of Dallas, which makes an anti-corrosive chemical that preserves pipes; and Product Ingredient Technology of Boa Raton, which makes food flavorings.

<snip>

Assisting Barbouti with these investments was New Orleans exporter Don Seaton, a business associate of Richard Secord, the right-wing U.S. Army general turned war profiteer who was so deeply enmeshed in the Iran-contra affair. It was Secord who connected Barbouti with Wackenhut. Barbouti met with Secord in Florida on several occasions, and phone records show that several calls were placed from Barbouti's office to Secord's private number in McLean, Virginia; Secord has acknowledged knowing Barbouti. He is currently a partner of Washington businessman James Tully (who is the man who leaked Bill Clinton's draft-dodge letter to ABC) and Jack Brennan, a former Marine Corps colonel and longtime aide to Richard Nixon both in the White House and in exile. Brennan has gone back to the White House, where he works as a director of administrative operations in President Bush's office. He refused to return repeated calls from SPY. Interestingly, Brennan and Tully had previously been involved in a $$181 million business deal to supply uniforms to the Iraqi army. Oddly, they arranged to have the uniforms manufactured in Nicolae Ceausescu's Romania. The partners in that deal were former U.S. attorney general and Watergate felon John Mitchell and Sarkis Soghanalian, a Turkish-born Lebanese citizen. Soghanalian, who has been credited with being Saddam Hussein's leading arms procurer and with introducing the demonic weapons inventor Gerald Bull to the Iraqis, is currently serving a six-year sentence in federal prison in Miami for the illegal sale of 103 military helicopters to Iraq.

[JayS]

52. We do need to look more closely at the OKC bombing.

There are just too many things coming out that don't sound right, mostly in the area of missing evidence. If this was a sting operation that went horribly wrong and was covered up, we still need to find the others involved, especially those that remain in the country that know how to make bombs.




Here is a little interesting reading:
http://www.intellnet.org/news/2002/11/16/13525-1.html

In July 2001, in the FOIA lawsuit filed by an Oklahoma journalist, the Justice Department reluctantly conceded the existence of 23 videotapes. The tapes photographed the area around the Murrah Federal Building between April 15, 1995, and 9:02 a.m. April 19, when the bomb went off.

This is significant because the government has long denied the existence of surveillance videotapes that are alleged to show John Doe No. 2 exiting the Ryder truck with McVeigh before it exploded. The Justice Department has steadfastly maintained that only one surveillance videotape, from the nearby Regency Tower apartments, captured the events of April 19. The government produced a blurry, black and white image of a large Ryder truck heading east on Fifth Street toward the federal complex at McVeigh's trial.

Is the Regency Tower's videotape the only record of scenes from the morning of the bombing? The judge who presided over the FOIA case says no. After looking over a confidential index of the surveillance videotapes in federal custody, U.S. District Judge Wayne Alley ruled: "The FBI's list of responsive material from its Oklahoma City Field Office includes numerous other tapes dated April 19, 1995, from several sources."

Where is the videotape of the vehicle that resembled McVeigh's yellow Mercury Marquis parked directly north of the Murrah Federal Building moments before the blast? FBI Agent Jon Hersley testified he viewed photographs from that security tape in April 1995. McVeigh trial Judge Richard Matsch granted the Justice Department's request to seal much of the evidence, including videotapes.

*SNIP*


I liked this blast from the past:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2001_hr/062001transcript.html

In the Oklahoma City bombing case, the FBI revealed only a few days before the defendant was scheduled to be executed that it had violated its discovery obligations by failing to turn over thousands of pages of documents to the defense. While the trial judge later ruled that this violation did not undermine the defendant's conviction or death sentence, the trial judge noted that it was up to others to hold the FBI accountable for its conduct. Whatever questions the belated document production raised about the efficacy of the FBI, the trial judge concluded that the integrity of the adjudicative processes leading to the verdict and death penalty were sound. The judge said, ``There is a great deal of difference between an undisciplined organization and an organization that is not adequately controlled that can't keep track of its information.

*SNIP*

[starroute]

55. Remember the questions about whether Padilla was John Doe #2?

http://www.intelwire.com/padillaOKC011104.html

"Shortly after the announcement of alleged al Qaeda dirty bomber Jose Padilla's arrest in June 2002, a number of Internet sites posted a comparison of Padilla's 1991 mug shot to a police sketch of John Doe No. 2, a never-apprehended suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing. Stories on the comparison appeared in the Wall Street Journal and the Boston Herald, as well as on the Web site of the Village Voice, NBC's "Today Show," and NPR's 'Here and Now' radio news program, among others.

"INTELWIRE has extensively investigated Padilla in an effort to confirm or refute such a connection. As of this writing, no conclusive evidence exists on either side of the debate. While some misconceptions about possible links have been disproven, there is a surprising amount of circumstantial support for the premise.

"However, it should be stressed that no case for an Islamic extremist connection to Oklahoma City has yet met the 'smoking gun' standard. Although some government and independent investigations of the case continue, as of this writing the case for a link is still unproven."

[JayS]

56. I always thought that the conspiracy theories were interesting...

...but largely groundless. Now I don't know...

Fun conspiracy site:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/okc_coverup.htm

[michaeld]

61. A good site

Actually, I think it's a pretty solid OKC site. Some documents seem to place Atta in Oklahoma City in 1995. Another coincidence? Compare his picture to the picture of John Doe Number Three. Damn spooky if you ask me. Several other reputed AQ members were also in Oklahoma City in 1995. Some that end up being involved in one way or another with 9-11. Another coincidence? Now, we find out Nick Berg was in OKC/Norman in 2000/2001 at David Boren's university. Apparently one of the 9-11 tickets was purchased at an OU library computer - (by a white male nonetheless!) Another "coincidence"???

[JayS]

63. Before I heard that NPR segment...I would have thought...

...it was a wacky site. Perhaps I should wear tinfoil more often. :)

[starroute]

86. Here's another site with Oklahoma City links

http://www.serendipity.li/more/ok_bomb.html

It's right-wing, or maybe libertarian -- anti-Clinton, anyway. The sort of thing I would have dismissed until recently. But leaving aside the mutterings about Waco and Mena, most of what is being said there is indistinguishable from what is said here about 911.

- Comparisons to the Reichstag Fire.

- Damage greater than one car-bomb could have inflicted. Seismograph readings showed five separate explosions.

- Same company carted the ruins away and buried them as removed the ruins of the WTC.

- Government quickly came up with an official story and refused to acknowledge any other possibilities.

I don't know if Oklahoma City might end up pointing back to everyone's favorite suspects, or if there are going to be some hard truths to swallow along the way. But either way, if there's even a possibility of it being an important part of the larger story, we're going to have to be willing to look at it straight on.

[Minstrel Boy]

71. Padilla compared to John Doe #2:

hmm...

[seabeyond]

79. amazing likeness

thanks for sharing this

[Must_B_Free]

81. A little background on this deception

the image of the sketch you are seeing had been intentionally distorted to deceive you. It is widened from the orginal. Also the resolution is lowered to hide the wide chin and difference in hair style. John Doe 2 is clearly a caucasian with combed back hair.



The Freepers were the ones pushing Jose Padilla as John Doe #2 to use it as justification for the Iraq invasion.

The first time this deception emerged on DU, they even went so far as to add some lines from Padilla's face to the sketch to make the resemblence more alike.

[Minstrel Boy]

84. Thanks for the correction.

To me, the original is an even closer match, particularly compared to the b&w pic.

I've avoided the OKC story because it seemed the freep zone, but there do seem to be unanswered questions here, some of the answers of which freepers won't like.

[hedda_foil]

109. Nichols first wife was Lana Padilla.

From an article linked above. Is this just a coincidence of last names or is there a relationship?

http://www.jaynadavis.com/crogan1.html

An Oklahoma Mystery

New hints of links between Timothy McVeigh and Middle Eastern terrorists

by Jim Crogan

<much of interest about OKC but here's the relevant snip>

The TV reporter, who has since quit the station, also interviewed Lana Padilla, Nichols' first wife. She told Davis that McVeigh had given her ex-husband thousands of dollars and paid for his first trip to the Philippines. Nichols, who is now awaiting trial in Oklahoma City on state murder charges, traveled extensively to the islands and eventually married a Filipino woman. Padilla has now been subpoenaed as a prosecution witness in Nichols' state case.

<snip>

[Minstrel Boy]

110. wow, good catch there n/t

[JayS]

112. It seems like everything in the news these days comes...

...back to Oklahoma City. It is like some bizarre "Seven Degrees Of Kevin Bacon" game.

[stickdog]

93. Of couse the OK bombing stinks, folks.

What were the chances that the first major act of terrorism on US soil would kill scores of little kids?

[Alerter_]

113. the Oklahoma connections have been talked about by Gore Vidal

and even Freepers (blaming it on Clinton somehow) for a long time. There are many disconcerting connections that should be investigated.

[wabeewoman]

49. That's the part I don't buy...

"I wonder," Tenet was overheard to say, "if it has anything to do with this guy taking pilot training."
Someone in Tenet's position doesn't 'accidently' let slip ANY information he doesn't want out there. Same with the AQ remark.

[seabeyond]

31. d*mn people

and timothy mcviegh in oklahoma. why that state. adn nichols connection to phillipine al queada

always so many darn coicidences with all this

[darkstar]

36. Another question:

Did one have to pass a security screen to work on the 2000 RNC communications install?

Just my opinion, of course, but I would think a freelancing *communications* subcontractor would have a simple background check run on him, w/ arrests being a deal breaker. Just my opinion, of course. The piece said OUPD, not Norman police, so that might make a difference.

I ask b/c I worked at a university sports auditorum/student center in the 1988 and Reagan came through campaigning for Bush. Lots of us w/ broad access to the builing were checked out a 2-3 weeks or so before in face to face interviews: arrest record, high school attended, mother's maiden name, fingerprints taken, etc. And we wern't applying for jobs in a sensitive area, we already worked there as coaches, office workers, maintainence, etc.

[Straight Shooter]

38. That was my question, too, and now it sounds even odder

He's arrested in spring of 2000, and yet by fall of 2000 he's installing sophisticated communications equipment for the RNC? Gimme a break.

Who hired which company that employed Berg for the RNC job?

[starroute]

54. Berg is starting to remind me eerily of Lee Harvey Oswald

There's the same impression of someone drifting around seemingly at random, winding up places you wouldn't expect, apparently having support from obscure sources or repeatedly being investigated and then let go.

There's also the same sense of not being able to tell which side he was on. With Oswald, his connections pointed simultaneously towards the US and Russia, the pro-Castro and anti-Castro Cubans. With Berg, the connections are both pro-Bush and anti-Bush, Israeli and Iraqi/terrorist.

And I get a feeling that both men were essentially innocents, and patsies in the end.

[darkstar]

102. Yeah, I was going over much the same in my mind, starroute

I kept on thinking we were gonna learn Berg taught himself remarkably fluent Arabic.

But one other notion has crossed my mind: Both violent deaths were captured on film/tape and are shocking iconic images that will stay with the Amrican psyche.

[starroute]

105. Violent images as psychological manipulation?

I started thinking about this when there was a long thread on psychological torture a few days ago. The use of violent images is one basis of mind control. It's the shock-and-awe factor -- it messes with people's heads and makes them more vulnerable to implanted ideas.

The whole decapitation scenario -- whether real or fake -- and its release in a way that would ensure the manimum number of people see it seems like a set up to control people's beliefs and emotions in just that way. In fact, it may serve two different purposes -- giving Bush's base one more thing to hate Iraqis over, whole making his opponents feel confused and helpless.

I think we're all experiencing the application of "stress techniques," and we'd do well to start learning how to counter them.

[SpiralHawk]

83. BINGO Straight Shooter

That question nails it. Why would the RNC higher someone with a clearly questionable record to be involved in something as sensitive as the communications?

Something is damn fishy about the Berg beheading.

[TNOE]

40. MORE disturbing - Is THEY don't even care we know

Just like 9/11 - that isn't going anywhere and they know it.
Just like Condi - she wasn't going anywhere and they knew it.
Just like Donald Rumsfeld - he isn't going anywhere and they know it.
Just like Bush - he isn't going anywhere - and they know it.

Now - what are we to do about it?


Deliberate Anomalies

5-16-4

It is a sad thing, deeply deeply sad, for a young man to have his head cut off for the sake of someone else's politics. Anyone who could look at these pictures and videos without feeling profound revulsion must have a few cards missing from their deck.

So it takes a certain amount of fortitude to take a really good look at these nasty images to get to the many anomalies in the first place, but that is the task of a detective isn't it?

Unfortunately, in today's news environment, every one of us who wish to be responsible citizens must also become a detective.

Because of the prevailing culture of lies, deceit and treachery, everyone of us with an active mind must continually examine and question everything put before us by the mass media.


But no one seems to have caught on that all these discrepancies - and more - that are in this video are there for a reason. They want you to know who did it. They, yes that THEY, the same old THEM as always. Bob Dylan said it long ago, "...the executioners face is always well hidden..." But THEY are more than willing to tip their hand to us today, because they don't care if we know, and they want us to know that they don't care. They are as much as telling everyone with a brain in their head, "Hey you with a brain in your head, watch this!" They are really saying "Get out the way you summer patriots, we can do you as easy as we can do this Berg dude!"




http://www.rense.com/general53/delib.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

43. Precisely. We know, and they want us to know.

I believe that, on a certain level, they want us to be intimidated by just what they're capable of, and they risk it because they run no risk: no one who could challenge them is going to call them on their lies, and there's nothing we can do about it. The checks no longer exist which could hold them accountable.

As a covert op, the Berg killing looks practically sloppy. The hidden faces, the wall the same colour as Abu Ghraib, the orange prison attire.... But who's the American media going to believe, it's lyin' eyes or the official story?

No one in the mainstream US media has the courage or the independence to do the simple work that could even suggest that US military intelligence might shoulder some guilt for Berg's death. There are only unexamined "mysteries" and "bizarre coincidences."

[Toucano]

41. Oklahoma's Laptops for Vagrants program was a complete success.

Wasn't the original story that Berg had lent an al Qaeda agent his laptop while they travelled on a bus and that's how al Qaeda got his email password?

I wasn't aware Oklahoma was providing vagrants with laptops, but it really appears to have worked out well. :crazy:

I hope Michael Wright will put the arrest documents online for us to examine.

It's time to start connecting the dots.

[Must_B_Free]

77. Not only laptops, but also wireless internet access?

recall the person wanted to send the email from the bus. There are no phone lines in the buses when I come from.

[seabeyond]

80. something wrong on the internet bus thing

and this was four years ago or more. something wrong there

[mzmolly]

45. My understanding of the "bus" incident.

Still, there are things about Berg's story which don't add up. Are we to believe that someone would really voluntarily surrender his email password to a stranger he met on the bus?

To my understanding Nick Berg let a friend who didn't have an email (use his email address to send a note to a friend) the email and password was then passed around to other students one of which was Mossaoui?

Hi, I'm foreign and I dont have an email, how do I send a note to a friend. "Well you can use my email if you'd like..." doesn't sound all that suspicious if we belive what Nicks family says ... "he belived the best about everyone."

This was also explained.

How does a one who was a vagrant in spring 2000 make the transition to independent businessman in Iraq, doing telecommunications work, in 2004?

Nick traveled to MANY countries doing this work. Iraq was one of them. He was a skilled student and excelled in related classes. He was also adventurous and optimistic. He had no family so we "went for it." It's not all that odd as far as I'm concerned.

What is odd is the white chair, orange suit, yellow walls that Nick Berg was surrounded by ??

[bloom]

46. In a letter to the editor

in this mornings paper, someone was wondering "where all the attention went" in the media for the Berg incident.

The media probably knows its' a fraud. Won't say anything, of course.


This is interesting about the OK-9/11? connection.

[nomatrix]

58. There are many things that should be questioned OKC/911

Frank Keating- FBI and Governor of Oklahoma at the time of the bombing

His brother Martin keating wrote a manuscript in 1991, four years before the OKC bombing. Keating could not get this work published until after the bombing.
The Final Jihad is now a book. It's a story of terrorists based in OKC who decide to bomb a federal building. Tom McVey is the name of one of the terrorist. The terrorists in The Final Jihad are stopped by an Oklahoma highway patrolman for a broken tail light.
Four years later in OKC, reality gives us Tim McVeigh, pulled over for a missing license plate.
Martin Keating also predicts the TWA downing and the World Trade Center bombing.

After the OKC bombing, he said he had copies of the surveillance film from the Southwest Bell building across the street from the Murrah building.

Did you know there were missiles in the Murrah Building?

http://www.okcbombing.org/News%20Articles/missile_murrah.htm

"The missile, about 3 feet long, actually had an inert warhead and only a small amount of rocket fuel, and the government says it did not contribute to the massive explosion that day. Instead, it tumbled into the rubble of the Alfred P. Murrah building."

[michaeld]

62. AND....

If you remember, for two days everybody thought Frank Keating was Bush's choice for VEEP. Drudge had it splashed for two days and others picked it up as well. Suddenly, the rumors are squashed when Bush announces that the man who had apparently PICKED Keating (being the selection guy) was going to be on the ticket himself! Dick Cheney. Was it too "hot" of a choice? There are so many weird things about OKC that it just boggles the mind.

[Minstrel Boy]

74. What game is being played?

If OKC is linked to 9/11 and both implicate powerful figures in and out of government as well as elements of federal agencies, to what end does it serve?

I think we have an inkling of who's playing, but what are they playing at?

A rhetorical question, actually. When I despair, I know the answer. I just like to hold out hope that some of my paranoia is unwarranted.

[michaeld]

57. Finally signed up to respond

This is a fascinating thread that is right down the line with my studies on 9/11. I had to finally sign up on DU to say that we are getting closer to the truth with the OKC connection. I have followed the Nichols trial very closely. There have been BOMBSHELLS come out of this trial that seem, to me, to link Nichols with AQ via the Philippine cells. Nobody has explained how Nichols could afford his frequent trips to the Philippines. One photograph shown shortly after the Oklahoma City bombing, showed nichols with a man now identified as an AQ leader in the Philippines. The Jayna Davis book is a MUST-READ for anybody trying to figure out - not only the OKC bombing, but SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785261036 ......... The truth will be found in Oklahoma City. All the dots connect through OKC and Norman (Norman is really just a suburb of Oklahoma City). Remember McVeigh's lawyer, Stephen Jones? In his book, Others Unknown: The Oklahoma City Bombing Case and Conspiracy http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0788195522/ makes it perfectly clear that he believes that McVeigh told him very little and took a vast conspiracy to his death. Jones also has recently been quoted as saying he believes that OKC was a "prelude" to 9-11. Jones believes that if the truth, as he is connecting it (but has yet to talk about), is almost too mind boggling to believe. Actually, his book is a good start, clearly stating that McVeigh was a part of a much larger conspiracy. "Others unknown". The secret to 9-11 and the AQ/CIA/etc. link is in this city - Oklahoma City. The truth will be found here:

[hexola]

59. Welcome To DU!!!

[nomatrix]

60. Welcome to DU Michaeld

We've got U.S. Rep. James Traficant's investigator John Culbertson. Traficant's in jail now.

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/nation/story/1144761p-7975049c.html

"A judge ordered a consultant who worked on the Oklahoma City bombing investigation to testify about images of the destruction he purportedly had."

-snip-

"An Oklahoma City police detective this month seized nine computers, hundreds of disks and other items from Culbertson's home in Virginia in an attempt to find video or photographs of the bombing.
An affidavit filed in support of the search warrant said Dallas attorney Thomas W. Mills Jr. saw the images on Culbertson's computer on Aug. 26, 1998, some showing the building before the bombing, then with a "small glow" at its base, then with a "ball of fire rising from the building." The existence of the images has not been confirmed.
Culbertson has said he turned relevant images over to the House Judiciary Committee several years ago and does not have what prosecutors want."

-snip-

"Culbertson was a consultant in the investigation of the bombing and served as chief of staff for convicted former Ohio Rep. James Traficant. He is now a journalist with a publication called the Arkansas Chronicle."

[Minstrel Boy]

69. Great post, michaeld!

I haven't paid much attention to Oklahoma City, but I'm seeing that's been a mistake. I picked up a used copy of Others Unknown a couple of weeks ago. Your post has bumped it up on my reading list.

Again, welcome. :hi:

[freeforall]

78. Welcome to DU michaeld!

Very interesting post. I believe all of these terrorist incidents were connected.

:tinfoilhat:

[spooked]

65. Nick Berg WORKED at the Abu Ghraib prison

"During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates."

http://journals.aol.com/bmiller224/OldHickorysWeblog/entries/1207

[nomaco-10]

70. Not only did he work there, he may have died there as well. /nt

[hexola]

75. It does not say he worked AT the prison..."Abu Ghraib" is a town...

He worked in the same town as the the prison - it does not say he worked IN the prison...

[stickdog]

95. Berg's emails said that he could see the prison from the tower he

was climbing.

[Must_B_Free]

76. Abu Ghraib is the name of the area

it is not solely the name of the prison facility. So Berg worked somewhere in the viscinity of the prison.

[mitchum]

66. "Curiouser and curiosuer..."

Was Berg recruited by black ops, and then duped into a horrific fate?

[spooked]

68. I read online last night that Berg WORKED AT the University

I am still looking for the link...It was something about supervising events at a stadium...that's what I recall.

[Straight Shooter]

72. Berg worked as an attendant at Lloyd Noble Arena in Norman

Berg was arrested twice in the spring of 2000. What else happened in the spring of 2000? I guess it's just coincidence that Colin Powell and Doren renewed their close friendship following Powell's visit to Lloyd Noble Arena:

http://www.poncacitynews.com/NewsArchives/0300folder/lo032900.html#Colin%20Powell%20Proves%20To%20Be%20Engrossing%20Speaker

NORMAN — “You are not Generation X — but you are the Generation of Excellence,” Gen. Colin Powell, chairman of America’s Promise — The Alliance for Youth, said Tuesday as he saluted student volunteers at the University of Oklahoma.

Powell was speakng at Lloyd Noble Arena at OU.

On Saturday, over 2,000 OU students will scatter into the communities of Norman and Moore to take on needed volunteer projects.

Tagged as “The Big Event,” the student initiative has young volunteers doing service projects for more than 60 agencies. The service-oriented activities range from weeding yards to painting homes.

For Powell and OU president David Boren, Tuesday’s rally was the renewing of a close association. Their friendship was formed when Powell was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and then Oklahoma Sen. Boren was the chairman of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

Powell praised Boren as “one of the greatest public servants I’ve met in my life.”

-snip-

Edit to add link: http://legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

Also see stickdog's post: The last witness to talk to Nick Berg alive: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1615190

[andino]

87. I don't mean to poo poo on this but.

there are a number of reasons that the OUPD busts people.

I go to school here at OU and to be honest with you I have seen TONS of homeless people carried off by the OU Police. They have their reasons for doing it too. Norman has this little mental hospital here that has a habit of releasing mental patients a little too soon. There have been a number of times that I have personally seen these guys yell at students and sometimes just do crazy crap (An example was a guy that masturbated LOUDLY to people as they walked by a garden on campus but that is another story). Since these people have no where to go they usually end up sleeping on a bench, in the library, or in the dorms on a couch. And since most places on campus are WIDE OPEN to the public, the OUPD patrols them pretty regularly and will bust anyone that doesn't belong there. The last thing that OU needs is for some student to be attacked by a mental patient from Griffin Memorial Hospital. I have seen the OUPD come up to a group of students (goth type people) and ask to see all of their student ID cards. I am sure that if they didn't have them that the OUPD would have given them the boot.

And as for the Norman police department, well, I am sure anyone who has gone to college knows about how the town cops are. They are supper willing to had out a citation to anyone who even looks like a college student. Hell, I am willing to bet that the number of tickets that they write on Lindsey (the street that runs through OU) keep the city of Norman in business. Same goes for the OUPD. They are both more than willing to your ass in jail as well. They get more money that way. So it is no surprise that the guy got tossed off of OU but, I hate to burst your bubble here, it's really not that big of a deal. It happens all the time here.

[hexola]

88. Hey, that Jesus image in your sig - Isn't that the same gesture...

that the soldiers in the Abu Graib torture photos are making?

1 finger pointing and 1 thumbs up? Where is that Jesus from?

[andino]

89. It's called 'Buddy Christ' and it's from

a little film called Dogma by Kevin Smith of Clerks fame.

Here is a picture of him in the film.

[progressivebydesign]

92. You should warn people about putting that photo in your post!

I have no interest in seeing murdered prisoners... It physically pains me, literally.

Having said that.. the guy in the glasses, which abuser was he? He looks like one sick M.F. in that photo. His eyes are creepy.

[starroute]

98. The "pointie" photo of Lynndie England is similar

One hand with a finger extended, the other with a thumbs up. In the context, it seemed she was simply pointing at the prisoner. But the soldier in this new photo is clearly not pointing at anything.

Is it just a can-do/we're-number-one gesture, or is there something more to it?

[Straight Shooter]

90. We're just curious why a "vagrant" would end up at the RNC

Also curious why someone from Philly would go to OU. Philly has one of the best colleges in the nation, no offense intended to OU. And Berg had a job, working at the Arena. Surely a likeable kid like Nick Berg had friends in OK. If his job didn't pay enough, did he have no friends to stay with?

If he was picked up for displaying mental problems, that makes the question even more insistent: how does someone who is on the wrong side of the law in the spring make it to the RNC in the fall, helping to install communications systems?

In and of itself, the OU incident is no big deal. But in light of all the other inconsistencies and unanswered questions about Nick Berg, it is a matter which is worthy of investigation.

[andino]

91. Good point.

On a side note, OU does have a very good mechanical engineering program. Maybe not as good as others but it is the best in the Big 12. That could be a reason for his trek to OU. That and football :).

[crossroads]

94. This is some mystery!!!

:wtf:

[loudsue]

96. Once again, DUers do the work of the media, CIA, FBI,

:bounce: You guys are awesome!! :bounce:

:kick:

[JayS]

99. It is a thankless job...

...but someone has to do it. :)

[Minstrel Boy]

100. "Berg had been arrested for trespassing, OU police say"

Today, from the Knight Ridder service, Kansas City Star (registration required):

(KRT) - Here's today head-scratcher in the stranger and stranger case of Nick Berg, the Philadelphia-area man whose videotaped beheading in Iraq has caused an international uproar.

Why did campus police at the University of Oklahoma - where Berg somehow got entangled with 9/11 terrorism suspects back in 2000 - arrest Berg twice for trespassing?

...

Chan said that, after receiving complaints from staffers at the Oklahoma Memorial Union that Berg was camped out there, police issued a warning and then twice arrested him for trespassing, a misdemeanor. He said the arrests were in April and May 2000, but Chan did not have exact dates.

"It appeared he had no other place to sleep," said Chan, adding that Berg was no longer a student when the misdemeanor arrests took place.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/8706964.htm

[ptsmknhipy]

106. OU visit

I thought Berg played tuba in the band? Did he not attend OU officially? Why would a kid from Penn want to go to OK anyway? Why does OK keep popping up in all this weired stuff? I grew up there, and brother, you can't even buy a real beer there. Its the buckle of the bible belt. This story is going to really grow some legs.

[loudsue]

101. I've been wondering about something here:

Could Nick Berg have been installing CIA/FBI equipment on a great many towers, both here and abroad, that are designed to do one of a few things:

1) Serve as a "secret" communications network, using a black ops type of technology that can be used to keep tabs on phone or communications use (like interceptive/wire tapping technology), or even video surveillance equipment? OR
2) as a separate frequency that can be used for goons/terrorists to communicate privately w/ one another?

If he is installing equipment all around the world at certain locations where things blow up and terrorist acts occur, AND if he's involved in the communications for the stolen RNC election fiasco, AND if he's involved in Abu Ghraib towers, THEN he's suddenly silenced -- conveniently just as the prison scandals are erupting AND we need a "terrorist act against the US" to sway the rednecks against thinking brown-skinned people could be victims.... he just seems to have a talent for being in the "most focal" point locations at all the wrong times.

Now, let's say Michael Berg was speaking sincerely about his son, that Nick thought the best of everybody, trusted people -- let's say Nick Berg was a tad bit too trusting. And let's say that some goons asked him to use his talents to "help the war on terrorism", and gave him some goodies -- I mean, a computer that can use dial-up on a BUS four years ago would be a DREAM MACHINE to someone who's a communications techie.

I've worked with a lot of people who are tower-climbing techies (I'm in that industry). Many of them climb these monster towers - even seen 'em climb over 1,000 feet up, and some of them are fairly fearless when it comes to their trade. Many of them have enough specific expertise concerning antennas and communications wiring experience. But for the CIA/FBI/RNC to find one who is really a fan of their philosophy, and who is not an alcoholic/heavy drinker (which many of them are), and especially someone who was fairly good-hearted and naive....he'd be the perfect wide-eyed government enthusiast to go about installing whateverinthehell type of surveillance or intercept equipment the government would want installed. But... that same naivety can make someone not clear on when they're saying something they shouldn't say! Naive and trusting people are good patsies, but not good "agents".

It is very easy for communications workers to "listen" from communications centers -- which Berg worked on.

So....here's Michael Berg, Nick's dad, who is skeptical of our government to begin with. And here's Nick Berg meeting with people in Iraq that the black ops guys may or may not want him to be talking to .... about THINGS they may not want people to know about, especially not someone who is skeptical of our government...Michael Berg. Or, similarly, maybe Nick comes too close and "hears something" from his communications installs that he's not supposed to hear, and mentions it off-handedly. It may be time for him to be silenced.(?)

Or, it may be that he had to go through a witness protection/ identity change thing to go deeper, and this "body" we've seen isn't HIS body.

The look on the guy's face, and his body language before his execution, was NOT the look of someone who didn't trust his captors. The strange time-lines on the different videos says there was something very fishy going on, regardless if he was executed, or if someone else was executed & beheaded that 'LOOKED' like him. The spoken Russian on the tape is extremely suspect.

The timing of his 'beheading' couldn't have been more CONVENIENT for the same folks whose "political convention" he worked on 4 years ago, the same folks who manage the FBI/CIA, the same folks who are knee deep in OKC, Iraq, and 9/11.

I'd like to see this kicked for the day crowd.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Minstrel Boy]

107. "Naive and trusting people are good patsies, but not good 'agents'"

Very true. And I agree with you about this: "The look on the guy's face, and his body language before his execution, was NOT the look of someone who didn't trust his captors."

Berg didn't appear to believe himself in mortal danger. So why didn't he? Did he know who were under the scarves?

[ptsmknhipy]

111. Ding Ding

Minstrel Boy, you are the first person I've seen that picked up on this. It bugged me from the instant I first saw this video. The look of Nick Bergs face showed not the slightest bit of fear or nervousness. I think he was completely suprised when he was grabbed. Contrast this with the looks on the faces of Dan Pearl and Shoshana Johnson last year where you could easily see the fear. Sorry, this guy is dirty. For his story to be clean at face value is as likely as someone loosing 3 wifes to drowning in the bathtub and actually having nothing to do with it.

And as far as the CIA using him to bug lines and towers. They employ the best in the world for that. And then those guys go out with Recon and Seals to do the job. I assure you every communication line in Iraq was monitored before we invaded.

Doc

[mzmolly]

115. The only other explaination is that they questioned him several times on

tape and he thought this was yet another one of those times?

There are times when he is being questioned in a white chair, but before the beheading he is seated on the floor? Perhaps he thought this was just another Q and A session?

He also was in tremendous shape before he was captured by ?, and in the video he looks emaciated. If that was the case, his level of strength would be severely limited.

I recently read a story in which a friend worked out with him at an Iraqi gym, said he was in excellent shape physically.

A close examination of the picture of him sitting in the orange suit shows a man with narrow arms and very slender legs. His captors obviously didn't feed him well for the month they had him, he may have been near death anyhow?

Does this guy look like he's in tremendous shape - a former football player who lifted weights?

Not any more he doesn't.



Looking at these pics, you see a very thin man-narrow shoulders, not a weight lifter in great physical shape?



And, look at his thin legs here?

I don't know how much I question his not fighting back?