Miller, Abizaid and Sanchez Senate Hearing 8:30am ET

[maddezmom]

about to start live on CNNI.

Edited to add the I, not sure if it's oon reg CNN or not.

[Lindsay]

1. Thanks for the heads up.

It's on C-Span as well.

[Paradise]

2. Thanks!

Looked for it, after reading your post, and found it on C-Span. :)

[maddezmom]

3. Abizaid: we will address the "systemic problems" at Abu Ghraib

he repeated that phrase twice

[nodictators]

4. Check out this AP article about the Senate hearing (spin alert)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040519/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq&cid=512&ncid=716

3 U.S. Generals to Discuss Prison Abuse

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer

Comments: The first paragraph (one sentence) in the article gives the gist of the story, as usual.

The next two paragraphs present quotes from right-wing House Repub Duncan Hunter, followed later with praise for three other Repub senators:

The Senate Armed Services Committee is "basically driving the story" of prisoner abuse and "jerking out these battlefield commanders" while their troops are in a shooting war, Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., said.

"The Senate has become mesmerized by cameras" and "they have given now probably more publicity to what six people did in the Abu Ghraib prison at 2:30 in the morning than the invasion of Normandy," said Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

---snip---

Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and Susan Collins of Maine have been among the most aggressive questioners of witnesses in hearings that followed publication in the past three weeks of photographs that appear to document abuse at the prison near Baghdad.

The article then discusses yesterday's Senate hearings. Quotes are from Tom DeLay and Jim Inhofe.

See if you can find any mention of Democratic senators anywhere in this article. I can't!


On edit: minor format correction

[kentuck]

7. Warner said Abizaid had been been in Washington for the last 2 days

And that Rumsfeld had requested he appear? So what is Duncan Hunter talking about?

[maddezmom]

5. Sanchez: takes full responsibility for the "setback"

is that code for abuse/torture pre-approval?

[maxrandb]

34. Did You Catch Sanchez's Opening Statement?

Chilling! Made reference to the turrist impacting elections in Spain, said they would target Iraq elections and then said even OUR election. It was like he was saying "vote for *, or the turrist win"!

Did any Dems call him on this? Seriously, this was one of the most chilling opening statements I have ever heard. Can't fid a link, but can someone post some of his drivel?

[TacticalPeek]

38. Sanchez knows he's behind the eightball.

(On MSNBC now)

Somebody with nexis should find the number of public statements by US generals about US elections.

[kentuck]

6. Now Rumsfeld, Abizaid, and Sanchez have taken "full responsibility" ?

But so far, it is only empty words from each of them.

[TacticalPeek]

8. Sanchez just lied about why MI was put in command of MP's.

Force protection my ass.

Sanchez is blowing smoke for Rummy, and will not succeed. That's ok, since he bears huge responsibility here.

Levin highlights the fact that this testimony puts Sanchez at loggerheads with Taguba.

[maddezmom]

9. Camp Cropper Red Cross detailed 50 allegations in July 2003

Abazaid: not all levels of command rec all reports

[aneerkoinos]

10. Serious difference between Sanchez and Taguba

Which Sanchez admits, about what did Sanchez order about putting MI in charge of AG mean. Seams that Sanchez is disagreeing with Karpinsky also.

[Eloriel]

11. So far just See No Evil, Hear No Evil and For heaven's sake,

SPEAK No Evil.

Disgusting. If this is the character and integrity of our top brass in the Army, ptooey. Disgusting and disappointing. I'm hoping some more aggressive questioners can shake some shit loose.

I'm particularly disgusted with Abizaid -- his demeanor says it all: I'm not tellin' you guys NUTTIN' and I'm pissed to be here. Quietly defiant.

Warner just saying: I've just been informed another disk of pictures has been found... Wow.

McCain coming up. Go, John, show us your stuff. PLEASE.

[maddezmom]

12. McCain: Pappas was in charge of Abu Ghraib

[Gin]

14. Warner just announced another CD has been discovered. He will say

more to the committee later.

[maddezmom]

15. missed that

trying to multi-task :)

[maddezmom]

45. here's a link to the story

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1515&ncid=1515&e=2&u=/afp/20040519/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_prisoners_disc_040519135720

[TacticalPeek]

13. Warner just announced that DoD informed him that they found another CD.

And it will be sent to the committee.

McCain up now, perhaps this will get less bland.

[maddezmom]

16. McCain: to Miller, do you believe you orders were misinterpreted?

not giving a clear answer....yes or no?
Answer by Miller: it was a breakdown in leadership

[nostamj]

17. test

on edit:

sorry, i wasn't able to start a thread and needed to see if i could post at all...

[kentuck]

18. They do seem "put out" to be there, don't they?

Who are these buttholes that would question us, the Generals?

[maddezmom]

19. Abazaid: to Kennedy, I'll take responsibility for all reports I received

then goes to Sanchez...looks like maybe some or most of the reports were kept at low level.

[TacticalPeek]

20. Abazaid: "This system is broken."

Referring somewhat to report distribution snafus, but it's really responsibility distribution that is showing itself as rotten.

[Spazito]

21. I am getting from this...

there was no set "chain of command" and that it was deliberate in order to make it more difficult to lay blame on those who are really responsible for this.

[TacticalPeek]

22. Roberts assumes the burden of listing all the good things that happened.

I guess some puke has to do it.

[notadmblnd]

23. We need to get these names in order

Bush/cheney
Rumsfeld
Cambone
Bremmer
Sanchez?
Pappas?
Barbara Fast?
Karpinski
mp's

These names with ? marks are all names I've heard in leadership. I'm not sure of the correct order. Can anyone list these in proper order?

Each and every one of the people should resign or do time in jail. these people are supposed to be the leaders. Incompetence or ignorance is no excuse.

[Karenina]

43. Hey! Don't forget

Wolfowitz
Feith
Myers
Kimmitt

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, said the Red Queen! ;-)

[TacticalPeek]

49. Miller, Boykin, Major Whatshername (MI).

[kentuck]

24. Byrd has Abizaid by the balls !

A direct, simple question. Does anyone at the Pentagon have to approve any interrogation methods?

[Spazito]

25. Bird's onto one of the key questions...

Abizaid is dancing as fast as he can and won't give an answer! Bird is asking who had to sign off on the rules of engagement.

[TacticalPeek]

26. Byrd is asking questions too hard for Abizaid to answer straight,

about Pentagon approval.

The general hangs his head, eyes down. An aide attempts to make the discussion technical.

[maddezmom]

29. yeah, then a military attorney answers for him

not looking good

[TacticalPeek]

27. God bless Byrd!

[Tinoire]

28. Byrd was great! n/t

[kentuck]

30. Continued here if interested...

rtsp://video.c-span.org/encoder/iraq051904_sen.rm

[TacticalPeek]

31. C-span cuts to House as expected. C-span3 picks it up.

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_org.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CSO

Allard mostly puffed.

Reed got some ground covered on who approved what practices, but the answers leave me hoping these guys were sworn in before this started.

Sessions . . . it's hard for me to listen to Mr. Sessions speak. Patience, my soul.

[maddezmom]

33. CNNInternational and BBC still showing n/t

[maddezmom]

32. Sanchez denies report in paper he approved

Report: Harsh interrogation OK'd for 1 inmate
By John Diamond, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by guard dogs, excessive noise and inducing fear as interrogation methods against a single Iraqi inmate at Abu Ghraib prison, according to a description in the classified annex of a military report on prisoner abuse in Iraq.
A government official who has read most of the 6,000-page classified portion of a report by Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba said the document describes a case in which Sanchez, the senior U.S. military commander in Iraq, approved specific techniques to induce an Iraqi prisoner to talk. The official described in detail the Taguba report's account of the incident. Access to the classified portions of the report is limited.

The disclosure comes a week after Lt. Gen. Keith Alexander, the Army's senior intelligence officer, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he was "not aware of any situation where Gen. Sanchez gave written approval or requested" any of the harsh interrogation methods.

The special interrogation techniques were authorized in guidance used by the U.S. Central Command, which is running the Iraq military operation.

~snip~
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-18-harsh-tactics_x.htm

[greatauntoftriplets]

35. My summary of what they are saying....

"We love war, we love war, we love war."

[kentuck]

39. Generals get their glory and their stars in wars....

For personal reasons, they love war.

[TacticalPeek]

36. Nelson exposes the fault line: MI in tactical command of force protection.

Very well done. Asked Sanchez if he knew of any other instance when this had happened. Sanchez gave a blurry 'No', disguised as a soldierly recognition of commanders' general duty to do what they need to protect their troops.

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

But now c-span3 drops it for the 911 hearings. Damn!

[Spazito]

37. I am getting it streamed from here...

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[kentuck]

40. Hillary up now....

Asking General Miller about document and he knew nothing about it ??

Then to General Sanchez: Asking about a slide that was projected on the wall at Abu Graib prison?? Nothing insidious about that slide..says the Colonel.

For some reason, the military guys look like some leftovers from the old Soviet military...

[LittleApple81]

41. I think the most stable link is C-Span radio. Just go to www.Cspan.org

and choose the radio link. You don't see their faces but can hear their voices. And it is not interrupted.
senator Graham asking good questions now. He has not seen a more disfunctional military structure in his life.

[kentuck]

42. Lieberman up now..

Complimenting the miliary....Time to clean the wound and move forward.

[thebigidea]

44. we'll all move forward - swept away on a wave of pure JOEMENTUM!

[LittleApple81]

46. inhofe now: newspapers are wrong! Abizaid denied the paper

accounts categorically and inhofe believes him.

[LittleApple81]

47. Inhofe: we don't show how much our great soldiers and loved

in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[jayfish]

55. They Love Us Enough To Kill Us. -NT-

Jay

[LittleApple81]

48. inhofe's heart is "broken" because the generals are in front of the

committee. He wants them to go back to be able to continue their great responsibility and doing the great jobs.
Afghanistan SUCCESS STORY????? Where is this guy living? In outer space? With his head up his butt?

[jayfish]

50. Inhofe IS An Outrage.

Where was all this hand-wringing when WJ Clinton was testifying for getting a bj. How important was it for the CiC to be focused on his, most important work.

ON EDIT: Where was the discussion of all the good things that were happening under Clinton.

Jay

[LittleApple81]

51. "These detainees are the worst type of human being, planning to attack the

USA and kill Americans..." Does this sound like Bush*'s speeches before going to war?

I am listening on C-span radio so I don't know which of the generals said that.

[keithyboy]

54. Forgetting that no Iraqi planned to or did kill Americans until we invaded

WTF Inhofe is an ass.

[Spazito]

52. Inhofe NEVER asks questions, just pontificates...

I thought a hearing was for the senators to ASK questions of those testifying but obviously I am wrong.

[maddezmom]

none can give specifics about coalition lives that have been saved

based on any of the interrogation.

[Spazito]

56. Are any democrats insisting on an independent inquiry into any...

of this? Most of the repubs on this panel shouldn't be there, they are not there to ask questions, they are there to ensure the cover-up is successful, imo.

[LittleApple81]

53. Inhofe: punish the soldiers! punish the soldiers! He doesn't believe

anybody higher up is involved.

[LittleApple81]

57. Bayh: he is so mellow he might just disappear into the woodwork.But

he asked if the general Abizaid thought that they had enough troops in Iraq. Up to February, yes sir.
But now he says there are certain kinds of troops they don't have enough: MPs, etc.
ESSENTIALLY: THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS!!!
THE ENABLERS IS WHAT HE IS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH.
He wants more international groups.
Did I miscalculate the number of troops? Maybe, but we have adjusted. The enemy also has a vote (WHAT THE HECK DOES THIS MEAN?)

[LittleApple81]

59. Abizaid: we will not win this war militarily. No sh*t, Sherlock!!!!

[LittleApple81]

60. Bayh mentioned the flag wrapped coffin pictures are important too.

A balance to protect our troops and preserve our honor.

[TacticalPeek]

58. I notice Warner is sometimes taking or allowing lots of extra time

for 'cleanup' at the end of a senator's questions. Beaucoup time after Inhofe. Like a talkingpoint was missed, or an answer not leaving the right impression that needs 'reframing'. I thought the closed session was after this. Seems like they've already worked some of this out?

Abizaid saying that we don't have enough "enablers" (MP's, civil affairs, humint, etc) in country or in the forces period. That's the kind of stuff our allies would have been good at, if aWol had not driven them away.

[LittleApple81]

61. Lizzy Dole: eeeewwww puke....kiss military bottom, you are wonderful

I just want to take the time to discuss how wonderful your work has been how wonderful you are how grateful we are... this is not what the hearings are for, the last I heard.

[LittleApple81]

62. Dole now reading a letter from Al-Zarqwai (this guy really has 9 lives,

doesn't him?). She says he has the mobility to move besides Bagdhad. The general agrees with her, of course.

[LittleApple81]

63. Can you confirm that Al-Zarqawi was the Berg beheader. The

general said he couldn't say for sure. But he can believe.
Does Al-Zarqawi have connection with resistance.

[LittleApple81]

65. Dole: SARIN!!!!! MUSTARD GAS!!! IN BAGDHAD!!!! this woman

is a horror. Are our soldiers protected enough to fight this thread?

[LittleApple81]

66. What are you doing to protect civilian (I guess contractors???) in Iraq?

What are these questions doing during this hearing? This hearing is to find out about ABUSES.

[LittleApple81]

67. CONTRACTORS ARE HEROS TOO AND DOING GOD'S WORK!!!!

One of the military (radio, sorry I don't know which). What is this crap!!!! are our generals fundies too?

[TacticalPeek]

64. Dole reeeeeks!

What mindless bs.

There's bad guys in Iraq, and in Iraq, guess what: bad guys.

[LittleApple81]

68. Now Nelson: could you please help us clarify here:

You used the words: it is a hard thing, it would take a long time.
We keep getting different statements that are interpreted different ways.
Do you consider part of your mission to disarm the milita like Alq-Sadr?
Yes. Said the general.

[LittleApple81]

70. Does your mission include provide security in the streets?

The guy is reluctant but says "unfortunately that is the case".
In some areas in Iraq iraqi police forces are doing really great (by Iraqi standards ).
They want to fight for their country but they want to fight for Iraqis, after they respond to Iraqis it will improve.

[TacticalPeek]

69. Nelson asks if Abizaid's mission is to destroy the militias.

Abizaid says disarm or destroy bad ones like al-Sadr's, and try to work with good ones.

That's close to taking sides in a civil war. Come to think of it, guess that's something we have to do if we remain there. :(

[PaDUer]

71. Hawaii's Akaka up now...n/t

[LittleApple81]

72. Question about contractors. They are responsible to the proper

units. If you are an interrogator they respond to the intelligence units. They work and are responsible to the army.

[LittleApple81]

73. What kinds of contractors do you have?

any contractors that are from 3rd world nations.
Yes, translators. they do an excellent job for us. Can you name some of the nations. Answer: no, sorry I cannot.
They are responsible to DOD. Answer: we will get the information to you about the countries where the interrogators are from.

[LittleApple81]

74. You told Karspinski that you were going to Gitmoize Iraq's prison.

Asked of Miller.
Miller: I never said that.
Some of your instructions might be misconstrued by the civilian contractors. There were no civilian contractors at that time, they were on their way.

[LittleApple81]

76. Question for Abizaid: trying to change army doctrine.

was it related to systemic abuse. Abizaid: no related to interrelationship of army and intelligence.

[TacticalPeek]

75. Miller mentions that contractors worked on intel 'fusion'.

That's weird. That's just a few folks at HQ. We couldn't be THAT short of military intel bodies. Not sure I like the smell of that.

[napi21]

77. Lyndsey Graham is actually acting as a responsible Sen.

For a Pub., Graham has asked some very responsible and probing questions during these hearings, both today and in the past. I thought it was funny that he inserted "Generals, do you feel it is harming the war effort by asking you to be here today?" Obvious smack in the head to Sen. Inhof. HE HE

I guess his being a former JAG Officer is overshadowing his partisanship for a change.

[TacticalPeek]

78. Nice of Shrub to schedule this press opportunity to step on the hearing.

CNN, MSNBC, Faux. Ramblerambleramble, gimme my energy policy bs.

What a fool.