House and Senate have both introduced foreign-born President amendments…

[Junkdrawer]

File this under :wtf:

This came up on a somewhat unrelated thread, but it was the first I heard of it.

Hatch latest to back presidency amendment
By JOAO FERREIRA, Standard-Times staff writer

NEW BEDFORD -- U.S. Sen. Orrin G. Hatch, R-Utah, introduced a proposed constitutional amendment this week that would allow foreign-born citizens to become president. For one New Bedford resident, this is a victory.
A bipartisan group of House legislators introduced a similar amendment about a month ago.
"This is a major, major, historical step," said Raimundo Delgado, a New Bedford resident who has spent 25 years fighting for such an amendment. "Now we have another front that we were looking for in the Senate side. This guy is the leader of the Republicans. He has been in the Senate for 27 years. He is a very prominent leader."

more...
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/07-03/07-12-03/a01lo010.htm

Note the dateline: July 12, 2003. That’s almost a month before Arnold’s surprise announcement. I tell ya, you just can’t make this stuff up.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

1. Fuckers

[Trek234]

28. Nice to see how much dems love minorities

Well, as long as you get their vote with some people...

[Junkdrawer]

36. Reading a lot into a single word. Say, what party are you with?

:think:

[ThorsteinVeblen]

39. Is an Austrian a "minority"?

What the hell do you mean?

[tom_paine]

59. He mean the Standard Bushevik Talking Points

How come you're anti-Catholic?

How come your anti-Black?

Oh yeah, those groups are native born.

(pauses to receive latest RNC Balstfax)

How come you're anti-latino?

(accepts pat on head from Uncle Karl and the promise that he will get to lead the Neighborhood Roundups in a decade)

[Alexander]

2. Well, this means Jennifer Granholm could now be president.

Which I wouldn't mind one bit.

But I still think this is a bad idea. Isn't there a big enough pool of possible candidates that were born here that we can choose from? I mean, the fact that some idiot decided running Dubya was a good idea doesn't mean that there's a lack of talent in this country. Heck, most of the Democratic candidates are pretty decent, and they were all born here.

[JNelson6563]

20. Granholm!! She's got my vote already!!

That would be delightful!!

Silly R's, they are so short-sighted. Remember how gung-ho they were about term-limits? Then they learned how easily they could rig elections and now they all regret that vote.

Idiots.

Julie

[Ediacara]

3. this is a little screwed up on priorities

although I always thought it was unfair to people who were born somewhere else and then emigrated at age 2.

But hey, for every unqualified Arnold they throw at us, we can throw a very qualified Granholm and Albright back at them.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. Coincidence??? I Think Not!!!!

Let's see: Try these names out for size. I'll just replace "President" with "Furher"!

Furher Schwarzenegger
Furher Murdoch (Heil Hitler!!!)
Furher Moon (:wtf:)

I'd OPPOSE this amendment if I were YOU!

[Trek234]

29. I love this amendment

Go spread your racist BS some place else. Because a person is Austrian that does not make them a nazi.

Arnold could not POSSIBLY take advantage of this amendment for YEARS. Why? Because that's how long it takes to amend the constitution. This is a rediculous fear.

[sujan]

34. I second that

[ThorsteinVeblen]

41. Just because a person is a Democrat doesn't mean he's smart.

"Because a person is Austrian that does not make them a nazi."

Murdoch is Australian and the Reverend Moon is from Korea I believe.

And of course just being of Austrian descent doesn't make one a Nazi, but in this case Arnold's father WAS a Nazi and Arnold has been on record publically supporting a Nazi war criminal who murdered Jews in World War II.

[acerbic]

38. Ah-nuld as President would be an interesting experiment

...just to see if the freepshits could still go on ranting about Clinton's womanizing and "immorality" without making their heads explode from the hypocricy and doublethink. :-)

I'd OPPOSE this amendment if I were YOU!

...but are you implying that a foreign born person would automatically or more likely be worse and more dictatorial than one born in USA?

[htuttle]

5. Have a happy, happy day, Citizen!

So maybe the movie 'Demolition Man' was prescient?

(In the future, Snipes' character mentions to Stallone's character that Schwarzenegger was president at one point while they were both frozen...).

[Brian Sweat]

19. Lucky Bastards

I hope someone freezes me if that idiot ever get elected.

[OldSoldier]

53. It was Sandra Bullock's character, not Snipes'

Wesley Snipes' "Simon Phoenix" didn't exactly engage in philosophical discourse with Stallone's "John Spartan" past trying to kill him.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. After 9-11? Good luck!

the xenophobia in this country will never allow it. Hey GOP clueless ones! :hi:

[Junkdrawer]

18. I could see both coasts, the NE and the SW going for this...

but there's a whole lot of Middle America that just might have a problem with this.

[diamond14]

7. that was the ONLY thing that held back Henry Kissinger...he

really wanted to be the 'appointed VP' after spiro agnew quit following conviction of housing fraud (spiro stole $$$ from public housing projects)....Kissinger as VP would have then made him president when nixon resigned in the face of imprisonment...instead, Gerald Ford was selected....

and Kissinger (wanted by several Nations for war crimes) actually whined about it on TV...that just because of his German background, he couldn't be President....

[Junkdrawer]

8. California has always been a big defense contractor state...

Throw Arnold in there and THEN throw a mess of defense dollars their way, and suddenly Arnold looks like an economic genius....

Nah, couldn't be...could it??

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Connecticut too

per capita I'm sure it is greater than California.

[MiltonLeBerle]

17. Exactly the scenario I see coming down the pike.

I'm going to love being a new New Zealander in the not-to-distant future.

[Walt Starr]

9. So the Repukes are out to make "Demolition Man" a prophetic

movie.

Just what this fucking country needs.

:eyes:

[demigoddess]

10. This from the party that

1. dislikes immigrants, especially those of color
2. wants to keep the constitution just like it was in the 1800's
3. wants to take away the right to vote from women

[GainesT1958]

12. Hmmm...does this mean that...

Repubs think so little of Jeb Boy that they're resigned to running Ahhnold for president in 2008? :eyes:

B-)

[Junkdrawer]

13. It would take them that long to get it through 37 state legislatures...

Constitutional amendments are not easy things to do.

[tom_paine]

26. No, Ahnold will be Emperor in 2017

Here is the Imperial Succession of Amerika:

2001-2009 Emperor Chimpy*
2009-2017 Emperor Jeb
2017-2025 Emperor I'm-a-Bushevik-But-My-Name-Ain't-Bush-So-Stop-Saying-This-Is-An-Empire
2025-2033 The Mad Reign of Emperor George P. Caligula

I was wondering which Imperial Whore would play puppet. I'm still not sure the fix is in for Ahnold. Plus, as a steroid abuser, he might not live that long.

And Hatch would NOT be supporting this amendment unless the Busheviks told him to.

[Junkdrawer]

32. Nah. Put Arnold in the middle - he'd make a great wartime president...

And if anything happened to Cheney in the 2006 time frame...

[GOPisEvil]

14. Sweet! This means I can be President.

:bounce:

Things just get curiouser and curiouser 'round here...

[tameszu]

23. Me too! But more importantly Granholm!

:bounce:

Some Republicans do have a sense of fairness, occasionally. I really doubt that Hatch is plotting for Ah-nuld. And Jennifer "I'm a MIL--er, rock star with 70% approval" Granholm is probably the biggest threat on the horizon--she'll be my once-Canuck gal in '08 or '12 if this thing goes through!

By the way, on the substantive principle: if the United States, which proudly defines itself as a nation of immigrants, can trust you to vote and die for it (the latter of which doesn't even require citizenship) and even become a member of Congress or a state governor, then why shouldn't you be allowed to run for any office after you live here for 25 years? It just seems to make sense...

P.S.: I'm pretty sure that Hatch is aware that Granholm could whip Ah-nuld's ass. If there's any political calculation going on here, it's that the GOP leadership wants to do something that's relatively innocuous and doesn't do much marginally, but has symbolic power to look more "compassionate conservative" among minorities. It's do bad the Dems haven't had a chance to beat them to the punch on this because they've been stuck in the minority. I'm convinced that it should help the Dems in the long run, though, since they tend to have a pretty solid lead among immigrants .

[Mel]

15. I remember the day

I heard Hatch on the floor talking about this that's when I knew they where up to more dirty tricks.

What we need to do is Target these Republicans and start with Hatch, Sanatorum, Delay, Thomas that ought to keep us busy for while. Whatever it takes dirty tricks the thing is I don't think we will have to make it up it's just a matter of taking them on!

Republicans are win at all costs until the Democrats start fighting fire with fire we are doomed.

I'm real sorry that some people don't want to get down in the dirt but if we don't have people on our side willing to do so we are sunk, toast, through, the great experiment is over as we know it.

This is by far the sickest our Democracy has ever been we are in deep trouble here and what we are fighting is fascism. Real sorry some people don't like to hear that word but it's the truth!

My idea on the changing of the constitution to allow foreign-born citizens to become president....Take em' on say okay then that means_________insert name of whomever would make them have a fit, would be eligible too win the presidency.

I happen to like the idea it's just that once again the pukes are going to take this and use it against what's good for the people. Anyone surprised? Take it and turn it on them!! That's the key. This type of idea will backfire on the pukes their supporters are not known for their diversity.

[bif]

16. Great!

n/t

[Brian Sweat]

21. Question

Ignoring the Arnold factor, is this a good thing or a bad thing.

Are we, as liberals, opposed to allowing someone who was not born in the U.S. to be president. I think it is kind of stupid to say that someone who was born in Canada, but moved to Michigan when they were three weeks old cannot be president. Not only that, but if you were born overseas because your American citizen parent was stationed there while serving in the military, you cannot become President.


I would support an amendment, that would at least rectify some of the silly aspects of the rule. However, I do think that the President should be someone who was raised as an American.

[Junkdrawer]

22. Hey, I'm all for it...

And I can think of a few other anachonisms I'd like to see fixed while we're at it. The Electorial College and that one about "a well regulated militia" come to mind.

[ButterflyBlood]

35. Your second scenario is untrue

such a person would be an American citizen at birth and thus a natural born citizen and thus eligible. However I do agree with throwing out the requirement altogether.

[Art_from_Ark]

63. The requirement is to be a "natural born" citizen

In other words, a citizen from birth. Theoretically speaking, even if you were born overseas, you would still be eligible to become president, if you met the criteria.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/03.html

[Junkdrawer]

24. Kick

:kick:

[Clete]

25. This could backfire on them.

There are many Americans of foreign birth that could run then and they aren't all Republicans. Madeleine Albright comes to mind off the top of my head. There are also scads of former army brats, who are American, but not able to run for President because of their being foreign born.

[rasputin1952]

27. This Ammendment would NEVER pass...

it is another ridiculous piece of tripe from the GOP.

Most of the people I know are offended that they have to prove they can work in this country, after they've lived here all thier lives!
Thisw will just tick off more people.

Fortunately, it is extremely difficult to get an Amendment passed. I cannot picture 67 state legislatures going for this thing...even if it gort past the US Congress.

Hatch should be tarred and feathered by the people of Utah for this little gem.

[Trek234]

31. Your post

makes absolutely no logic at all.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

40. One doesn't "make logic"

Logic is. One's argument can "conform to logic" or "make sense" or "have logical cohesion".

Your post "makes absolutely no logic" at all.

[tameszu]

30. For the life of me,

I really can't see why this amendment would be a bad thing. It might not pass, but you can bet it will have extensive bipartisan support.

Despite its source, it is liberal through and through. And more foreign-born people support Dems on balance, by a longshot. Which party did Pat Buchanan emerge from again? You can bet that he'll be on the front lines opposing it.

Plus, two words: Jen Granholm.

[ButterflyBlood]

33. I'm for repealing that

a President Granholm would be great. Arnold would never win a nationwide GOP primary, how well would a pro-gay marriage, pro-choice, pro-gun control candidate do out in fundie land? For that matter Hatch should know he's screwed out of Utah as well for his pro-choice and pro-gay stances.

[Starpass]

37. You are all going to rue the day we fuck around with this constitution for

idiotic means. And you are falling for this scum who have risen to the top of our nation to shred our constitution. Put in all the goddamn admendments that you want that "get you off" for the moment and you ARE going to go down in the sewer which is were this nation is headed. Hell, let's make a constitutional amendment that says that one must be of the Nazi party in order to be the real Christian rulers of this nation. Ohhhh, you don't like that?? Well, just like the CA "thing" get use to it. Because we are headed for some sort of uncontrolled "direct" vote of the people. Give us Barabus (sp.?)...know what I mean. Or, give us Ventura and Arnold 'cause then we will all be happy and rich and secure. Amendments are for very serious social problems. They are not so are foreginer can rule this nation........it may seem so innocent today,....how about tomorrow?? Wake up and grow up and realize we are in danger.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. further proof that repukes HATE out Constitution

[DavidNY]

43. I actually think this amendment would be a great idea...

I've always found it unfair that someone who came to this country as a young child, was naturalized along with their parents and raised as an American from an early age, and always considered themself an American since they were old enough to think about such things, would be ineligible for the Presidency because of an accident of where they were born. America is, fundamentally, a nation made up of immigrants and their descendants, and it doesn't seem right to me that how far you can rise in this country should be determined by whether your family came here just before or after you were born.

A long enough residency requirement for foreign-born citizens-- either the 35- or 20-year versions would work, I'd probably go for 25 or 30 years-- would eliminate the chance some seem to be concerned about that anyone who could really be described as a "foreigner" would be elected. And for anyone who's concerned about Schwarzenegger in particular, as others have pointed out his eligibility for Jennifer Granholm's would be a perfectly reasonable trade. Even from a purely pragmatic point of view, it's a shame for Democrats that under our current Constitution such a popular, charismatic Democratic governor of such a large _swing state_ (which Michigan is and Califoria likely will never be) is barred from the Presidency.

[liberalpragmatist]

45. Yup -- this amendment's a great idea

And, honestly, I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that Arnold will ever be president. Even if he wins the governorship (no definite thing) he's still waaaaaay too liberal for the GOP and I doubt that mainstream America would accept him.

Granholm's a much more likely possibility, and, frankly, I could really live w/ that

As for Kissinger wanting to be president -- so what? it didn't happen, it's not gonna happen -- Kissinger's old and it's 3 decades since then.

[TennesseeWalker]

44. The Constitution

well, at least they've gotten the whole Nation to start respecting the Constitution again. Folks are starting to wake up to the BS.

[mitchum]

46. Roll on...what's one more job?

[burr]

47. outsourcing for executive leadership, the wave of the future...

This will become a critical part of our constitution once we stop having elections. Do you not believe in the new world order which pappy Bush stated that he wanted to create? Nazis believed in their own world order as did the Romans, but now America must have its new order to prevent another 9/11.

[elcondor]

48. Now, I'm not normally into conspiracy theories . . .

but this is certainly worthy of a tinfoil hat re: Arnold running for governor. I'm not going to let Dubya force me out of my country and away from my family, but if Arnold winds up in the White House, Canada will look pretty appealing.

However, I'm not against this amendment in theory because there are quite a few foreign-born American citizens who are in public office and deserve just as much of chance at being president as anyone else does.

[ButterflyBlood]

62. oh come on

Arnold would be nowhere near as bad as Bush. If you can stand Bush you could certainly stand him.

[Eloriel]

49. Wake up, people!

Starpass has it about right.

There is NO reason for this amendment at this time. None. So why is it being introduced? None of you knows, do you? Neither do it.

BUT

If you folks haven't learned that nothing this administration does -- and that undoubtedly includes this little gem -- is for the good of the people or the United States, then you haven't been paying attention and probably deserve what's happening and going down from here.

Yes, it should be just that automatic, instinctive, knee-jerk a reaction: Oh, Repug initiative? No way! Repug = Bad.

For the record, I'd be against this even if it were a Dem initiative. Why? Because I trust the Founding Fathers more than most of the idiots we've got in Congress right now. Because it feels safer to me for the top job to go to people whose roots are firmly planted here on U.S. soil and therefore whose loyalties are more likely to be fully American.

Plus, I'm tellin' ya -- any Constitutional provision that kept a Henry Kissinger out of office is okay by me.

You can call me racist if you want to. If this were the ONLY "discrimination" we practiced against the foreign-born it would be one thing. But it's not. So anyone concerned with this bit of alleged "racism" in the Constitution can go fix all the rest of the racism in this country and get back to me.

Eloriel

[KoKo]

50. AGREE! Eloriel! I was just wondering yesterday when they would overturn

that little part of the Constitution which kept Kissinger from running......now that the great "Terminator" is being pushed all over the Land!

Come On Folks! Wake Up! It's worse than even I (who has the darkest view of what's going on in America) thought if this is overturned!

Think about it! Shwartzenneger gets an hour for his speech and Gore get's cut off by MSNBC!

This is not just fun and games and Media running after "celebrity." This is serious! These wing nuts were already transposing pictures of Reagan on the screen beside Swartz the day he declared he was running. And this was MSNBC, CNN, CNBC (and probably Faux, too....but I never tune to them).

How much more of a coordinated effort does it take to realize this "discrimination issue"...as some of you see it, is part of their strategy. They are truly insane.....but it doesn't mean we have to be trapped into following their insane view of what America should be under their rule! :nuke:

[liberalpragmatist]

55. Come on

Barney Frank has been introducing this amendment for YEARS. You think that someone who moved from mexico when they were 2 months old should be ineligible, since they are "so obviously not American"? Isn't the prospect of Granholm as president a good one? Do you really think the Republicans would dare nominate Arnold? The christian right is never going to tolerate a secular, pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control candidate who glorifies violence and sex in his movies and who's married to a Kennedy. And what makes you think that Arnold is even going to get elected? It's no sure thing --Bustamante has a VERY good chance, esp. as the campaign drags on.

[KoKo]

57. The Repugs would certainly dare to nominate Arnold......Just look! And

Kissinger? I would not change the consitution on this.

[barbaraann]

51. I think Schwarzenegger might be the Project Paperclip candidate.

Here are some reasons why I believe this:

1. Austrian "farmboy" with family Nazi connections. Arnold has BFEE connections. BFEE has Nazi connections.
2. Steps taken by Arnold to counterract Nazi connections by having the Simon Wiesenthal center vet Nazi past.
3. Charmed rise through the bodybuilding world.
4. Charmed rise through the moviemaking world.
5. Incredible success in the investment world. (How did this man escape losses in the dotcom implosion????)
6. Republican ties, including meeting with Ken Lay.
7. Apparent sham marriage to a Kennedy. (She looks like the life has been sucked out of her and there are reports he in not faithful.)
8. After making "Total Recall" runs in CA recall.
9. Congress preparing to allow a foreign-born President.
10. Part of the media/entertainment "dumbing down" and sadism-infusing of Americans.
11. Started the gas-guzzling Hummer craze, picked up by the military-industrial complex.
12. Receiving non-stop positive publicity from the media since his announcement that he is running in the recall.
13. Conniving, focused, and relentless--fits the BFEE/Nazi profile.
14. President Bush is NOT campaigning for Schwarzenegger in California even though the White House is probably behind his candidacy. They are covering up the connection for a reason. (As noted above, there is ALWAYS something behind BFEE actions.)

And, putting on my extra-heavy-duty tin foil hat, it might just possibly be that the California energy crisis was designed not to bankrupt California but to destroy Gray Davis and open the way for the recall.

Flame away. :-)

[Junkdrawer]

52. Well. he does fit the Reagan/Bush profile of Known Name Puppet...

Say, could I get that phrase trademarked?

[barbaraann]

56. Yes, and Gore Vidal often talks about the alliance between the

military-industrial complex and the movie industry.

[Junkdrawer]

58. OK: (tinfoilhat firmly in place) Arnold as the John Wayne of our time...

Suppose you're the military-industrial complex (MIC) and you're planning a future of Operation Northwoods attacks followed by increasing foreign campaigns to secure mineral resources for the war machine. You need a puppet president that rallies the gun toting, flag waving population to maximum effect. Now, they dress their Bush doll up in a flight suit, but privately even they have to agree he looks silly. So who do you get? Hmmmm.

[barbaraann]

60. The Bush men are effete, aren't they?

Depleted of vitality, force, or effectiveness; exhausted: the final, effete period of the baroque style.
Marked by self-indulgence, triviality, or decadence: an effete group of self-professed intellectuals.
Overrefined; effeminate.
No longer productive; infertile.

They are always pathetically trying to achieve manhood but all of the Texas swaggering, macho talk, etc. doesn't work, IMHO.

[proud patriot]

54. Argh

:mad: this unfriggin real :wtf:

[RetroLounge]

61. Yup, so When we run out of Bush* Brothers

to f*ck up the white house, they can install one of their Saudi Royal friends...

Yes, I just LOVE seeing Dems here agree with a Bush* proposal to amend the constitution.

and eventually, amendments become common place, just like California proposition whatever on every ballot, and people start voting on them without thinking.

Flag burning amendment?
Anti-Choice ammendment?
Tax Cut ammendment?

Yeah, great idea, you sheep...