You guys really think this election is over, don't you??

[BabsSong]

God, I am stunned. So many people here look at the latest polls, add in the current news and think Georgie is dead. This latest dip in the polls has nothing to do with the prisoner scandle, etc.--hell, Americans think there should have been even more abuse forthese "terrorists". A few weeks ago all hell broke out in Iraq and we heard during the 9/11 hearings that Bush did squat about the warnings that caused 9/11. This didn't turn the people---his numbers went up. They sure as hell aren't disturbed and losing sleep about the prisoner abuse situation. They are disturbed because of GAS PRICES---Americans don't care about other people. They only care if they are bit in the snout. And they got bit. That means they are only about 15 cents away from supporting their PRESEEEEEDENT again. Kerry either right now piles on while they are in the mood to hear 'bad stuff' about Bush to add to their bitch list about Bush or we wait until gas prices go down and Bush's numbers go up accordingly (and they will) and then the public will be in no mood to hear about their "precious". Kerry can right now wed and bed the American people and make them his lovers or we can pass.......again.

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. You're right. Kerry needs to kick Bush while he's down

Or more to the point, all the Democratic "leaders" need to be kicking Bush so hard he can't get up in time for November.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Sensei_Rebel]

45. f bush

f*ck bush has taken a whole new meaning this century.

And if Nader runs he's gonna kill this election.

[shraby]

2. Maybe the polls numbers are

being kept close so that when Shrub steals the election with the electronic voting machines, no one will challenge it cause he was close in the polls.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. It's more than gas prices

if the folks who spontaniously come up to me and confess to me they are Republicans who are voting for the Democrat this year are to believed. They are ashamed at what has happened at the prison, and are ashamed at how our troops are being treated. They see Iraq as a quagmire, and feel that we are entering a recession, not a recovery. Gas prices are merely the icing on the cake.

[BabsSong]

6. then a hell of a lot of people are lying to the pollsters

this thing is still razor close. At DU everyone thinks that if the guy at work says "I hate Bush" who was a Bush voter that means we take it in a landslide. How can I break this to you. That's exactly the same crap I heard here during the mid-terms and we got KILLED---not a bit out voted but KILLED. So stop it. Now Kerry has put out his biography and it is excellent. Now we have to tell the people WHAT BUSH DID TO THEM THE LAST 4 YEARS. They don't know. Too many still love the bastard. We need to INFORM

[left is right]

30. I have said it before

If polled, I will lie about supporting *. They cannot effectively steal the election if they don't have a clue about the degree of stealing it will require.

[stellanoir]

8. yeah. . .I too often hear of the mass defections of the

Republicans. . .yet it's barely reflected in the polls. . .Let's face it. The whole system is manipulated and without amelioration of the nefarious electronic voting machines. . .Kerry will have to amass a 30% advantage to win. So support HR2239 & S1980 and bother your representatives and your secretaries of state relentlessly. . .or we don't stand a chance.

[kaitykaity]

4. Election is in November.

Last time I looked at the calendar, it was
May.

So no, I don't think the election is over.

I also don't think the cap can go back on the
can of worms. It's open, and all this dreck and
drudge is coming out.

People didn't change their opinion of Vietnam
once they saw the picture of the napalmed girl,
or the guy being executed with a pistol. The
torture images are indelible now, and somebody
is going to have to pay for them.

[BabsSong]

11. kait--may I restate??

They ain't dropping their opinions in the poll over Iraq, the prisoner abuse, the escalation of tensions (see my original posts)....this drop is because of GAS PRICES. They don't react for Christ's sake unless it bites their personal asses...don't you know that by now. We DO NOT CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE. Don't you know that by now?? So, all Bush has to do is lower the prices of gas (and they will) to about $1.75 by November and a whole shit pile of people who now do the thumbs down on Bush in the polls will love their precious little Napoleon again. Watch and weep. We either get him NOW or we don't get him.

[Imperialism Inc.]

14. Ah yes, the gas stunt.

I knew I was forgetting one of the already kinda-announced stunts.

[kaitykaity]

16. You make a compelling case, but

I have to disagree.

I guess I have a higher opinion of people than you
do. I think everything is contributing, not just gas
prices but the torture pictures as well. I also think
that the media is turning on Bush to some extent, that
they are embarrassed by their cheerleading and are
beginning smell blood in the water, metaphorically speaking.

Higher gas prices are causing inflation, and that genie
doesn't go back in the bottle easily either. Hell, the
Democrats tried to get Bush to release some of the stratetic
reserve, or at least stop filling it at 300,000 barrels
a day, and he told them to go take a piker.

Look, I know you want Kerry to be more aggressive now,
but smarter people than me have said that "when your
opponent is digging himself a whole, all you have to
do is watch," or something to that effect. Bush is playing
defense, and the courts marshall are starting tomorrow, so
the torture story isn't going away any time soon.

Let Kerry introduce himself with his ad buy, and keep
going around the country under the radar, out of reach
of the Republican attack machine that is largely being
ignored now.

This is a good time for us.

[TruthIsAll]

32. Gas prices are a small part of the reason for Bush's freefall.

People cannot stand the bastard for a myriad of reasons.

If gas prices drop, they will still hate Bush. I am too tired to go through the litany of crimes and abuses he has committed.

You know them as well as I do.

Gas at $2.00 hurts, true. But body bags and WMD lies to start an Iraq oil war and job losses and 3000 dead on 9/11 and the WTC gone and stolen elections and medicare scandals and loss of freedoms and global warming and rape of the environment and corporate fascism hurt a lot more.

[Birthmark]

5. Over? Not one person has voted yet.

So, no, the election isn't over. It hasn't even started. That said, Bush will lose. We should all do what we can to ensure that that happens. We should all act as if the race is just as close as the polls claim. Then, we should all be delighted with the results on Election Day.

[Imperialism Inc.]

7. The thing people are forgetting is Bush's planned "re-election"

campaign.

There will be several arrests, at least 1 high profile one during the Dem convention.

Then, its Saddam time. Yes, some Americans have moved beyond Saddam but not all of them by far.

That will be the talk all through the summer. Some people might forget there even is such a thing as a John Kerry as they relish in the explicit details of the horrendous Hussein and how his Abu Ghraib torture makes ours look like a walk in the park. Mind you, never will a word be said about the US government support of these despicable acts described in all their gory detail.

Americans will go for it, they love their bogeymen. Bush can expect a bump all through the summer for it. It will be used as distraction every time it is needed. We might even see some of the violence subside as Iraqis too turn their eyes to making sure Saddam is properly punished but that isn't looking as likely as I thought it might be before.

Then going in to November we will see more arrests and God knows what other stunts.

It is far far from over, unfortunately.

[Ardee]

9. not everyone just the right wing of the party

In order to justify the abysmal campaign, in order to explain away Kerry's penchant for me-tooisms instead of blasting Bush constantly in order to rationalise the lack of a triple digit lead over arguably the worst president in american history, certainly the most untruthful and ignorant one, they push silly poll numbers that mean squat!

[Alerter_]

10. It scares me that it's not

I have always assumed that however bad Bush was, the institutions of the US would be able to survive. Now I am not so sure. If Bush keeps power after the elections, or if he in any way interferes or cancels them, we have lost our Democratic Republic.

[Blue_Roses]

12. NOT ONLY NO,

but HELL NO! I know what Rove is capable of pulling out of his hat after watching him devour Ann Richards in Texas with his lying, filty ads. He's despicable and Bush will stop at nothing to win. He's OBSESSED with winning. It's gonna be tough right up till the last vote is cast in november.

Hell no, I'm not comfortable at all, however, I would like to think I am extremely cautiously optimistic!:)

[BabsSong]

13. Let me plant this bomb on you---to add to my original post

This weekend in the company of educated people I made a comment about Kerry. The reaction was "oh, I couldn't figure out what you were saying---I was thinking Drew Carey or Jim Carey---" I had to tell them it was the guy running for the Presidency!!! Do any of you now realize what I am saying??? Wish the goddamn Kerry campaign would!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. Maybe you're hanging out with the wrong people.

[mitchum]

25. Damn! Babs, you really do get around

Awhile back you were telling us about knowing several "higher up" Dems who were very worried about Kerry. Now, you are telling us about people who don't even know who he is. You do get around! Are you Zelig? Gump? Capote???!!!

[BabsSong]

26. No....just talking to people at a social gathering whose lowest degree

in college was a BA. All of them were about age 28 to 35-----but then again they are useless..........aren't they?????????????

[mitchum]

28. Hey, If I can't believe an anonymous poster on a message board...

who can I believe?

[BabsSong]

31. that's right honey, I;m really 18 years old and my mom has let

me up this late to be on line. But you believe everyone else...right? Well the occassion was my youngest's 28 year old's wedding shower held in Barrington RI this weekend. All of these "girls" ranging from 28 to 35 are very successful college educated young women who have very good jobs in Boston and the surrounding area. Bet you couldn't match one of their salaries in your wildest wet dreams. But they are soooo not into politics....they are into money and all the lovely things they own. That's fine. Been there at that age and done that. But jesus Christ I at least knew who the hell was running for president at that age. The youth of America deserve what they will inherit. At that age I knew and I voted. So....vote or suffer......I can't save you.

[mitchum]

35. Well, your daughter has some really stupid,bovine friends...

(not surprising, in light of your classist "bet you couldn't match one of their salaries in your wildest wet dreams" comment)

[BabsSong]

38. Well I'm sure they wouldn't give a second look to you dear

and they are tall, sleek, gorgeous........every one of them..eat your heart out.............and the American idol of doing well in suburbia.

[mitchum]

40. Care to make an bet on that , Mom?

I am also considered "tall, sleek, gorgeous"
BTW: It's rather odd that you seem to embrace the very "values" that you seem to deplore in them. But, then again, maintaining an on line persona can be rather difficult, can't it? (Even if it is just an old Mike Myers routine)

[doni_georgia]

43. as if! (Doni's Husband)

I might guess you were from the "dark side" if not for the number of posts. "Eat your heart out..." People don't say such things unless they assume the subject matter to be desirable. Personally, I suspect your daughter's friends could be multimillionaires and not be worth the attendant faults.

But that aside, I will agree that the need here is to INFORM. The people in the area where I live are so ignorant of politics (and just about everything else) that it's scary. That number on the back of the pickup truck...it it the driver's favorite NASCAR team's number, or his IQ? If you have a fish on your car, it's assumed you're Baptist. If you vote, you're assumed to be Republican. A Democratic bumper sticker or yard sign invites glowering stares. One fellow - who is a friend of mine - told me that the rise in gas prices was caused by the Democrats and that the Dems "want the price to go to infinity." (This from a man who also thinks that Dems want everyone to drive all-electric cars or bicycles, both of which would reduce demand for gas to zero - what happens to the price of a commodity that no one needs? Duh!!)

To me, the true key to this election is with the liberal and moderate Christians who voted for * in 2000. Many of these folks voted for * because of his professions of faith. If I were running an ad campaign, I would hammer him on this issue, reminding people of some of the things that he's said and done in the last three years that just scream of his hypocrisy - the lies, the lack of mercy, the lack of humility, etc. Most right-wing Christians are pretty well-versed in Biblical texts, and presenting his actions in contrast to his profession of faith will force these people to think in an arena with which they are at least nominally familiar. I have reason to think this would be effective: It was this exact issue which transformed me from a Repug to a Never Again! Democrat.

Mac in Ga

[Torgo Johnson]

44. They live in Boston !!??

Do you mean to tell me they live in Boston and they don't know who one of their senators is?? Especially one who has been in the Senate and one as high-profile as John Kerry is. Either they are rock stupid or they are so politically apathetic that you could not drag them to a voting booth.

[NoPasaran]

17. Not only is the election over, Howard Dean is the President-elect!

Right?

All those polls can't be wrong!

[Kazak]

18. Well, we've got to turn out the vote of course.

The polls are a bunch of fluff as far as I'm concerned.

[nostamj]

19. HELL NO

where did I say that?

:shrug:

we're dealing with the lowest political monsters America has ever spawned.

the fat lady hasn't even arrived at the theater

and, btw, we don't even have an official candidate yet...

[grasswire]

20. politics 101

...for those highly excitable people here:

When your enemy is killing himself, stand back and let it happen. Just get out of the way.

There is even a deeper strategy than that playing out here. Kerry is beginning to draw some Republicans away from Bush. They're teetering, wondering, hesitating.

The certain way to drive them back to Bush is for Kerry to become stridently partisan. They'll scatter like a herd of bunnies.

WHY???

Because the moment that Kerry goes heavily partisan, the full power of the right-wing press and punditry will come down like thunder from the sky.

Criticisms of Bush will be neutralized as simply partisan.

THAT'S why the soft-pedal works best right now. We're trying to get Republicans to peel off and switch, in a zone of comfort.

[kaitykaity]

21. Yeah, what you said.

:thumbsup:

[BabsSong]

22. As a graduate in poltical science I need to disagree

When you are facing an incumbent, you cannot depend on the opponent self destructing. Every time, the people will pick the devil they know over the devil they don't unless you can give them something to run to. For Christ's sake if they feel adrift from Bush but see no life raft from Kerry, they will swim back to the Bush boat. They would rather cling to a rotten tree than a goddamn piece of pink tutu.

[grasswire]

23. submit your resume...

....to the campaign then. If you're worth your salt, I'm sure they'll adopt your techniques.

[BabsSong]

27. ohhh, that's brillant.....so I guess that campaign will listen to every

person who graduated in poly sci.......well, then again, I wonder what some of them graduated in!!! What's your degree in----I think they need to hear from you in your area...don't you?????????

[grasswire]

42. I'm not the one about to have a stroke here...

...and I'm in full agreement with their strategy and have come to appreciate Kerry too.

You disagree with their strategy. So do something to influence it.

[indigobusiness]

24. Counting chickens before they hatch -dept.

It is wayyyyyyyy early and ANYTHING can happen.

Remember---this country allowed the selection of Bush...who knows what evil lurks.

[Deja Q]

29. You're right, but to a point...

Americans are selfish.

But.

Even the repuke supporters at work who I deal with have expressed concern if not an emotion close to that of outrage over the prison abuse situation. If possibly only because of how the situation would be seen by the world, but they may have had a glimer of sympathy for those abused as well.

It is rather disturbing that *'s numbers didn't go down after the LIHOP revelation though.

And, yes, the opposition party needs to respond in full throttle. I'm sick of repukes blaming things on Dems and Dems doing nothing. In MN, Paw-wussy blamed the budget stand-still on Dems. Totally. (Uh, bipartisanship and compromise is where BOTH SIDES give up on some of what they want. Dems always do. Repukes never seem to do. Sore Paw-wussy, the fault is YOURS. And you're gleefully taking it out on Minnesotans while shifting the blame for YOUR actions (and inactions). :-( )

[BabsSong]

34. Hypno--don't tell me they are pulling that crap in MN????????

Are the Dems responding or looking like they are guilty?? More to the point--will the media give any Dem fair coverage. The midwest (Iowa) is where I was born and raised and lived in Iowa and Wisconsin most of my adult life before coming East. Minneapolis was the Rome to us Lutherans and MN was a Dem bastion. So tell me, gently, is Kerry going to be able to carry the state?? I understand it's getting close and nasty up there.

[dflprincess]

Kerry is up by 12 points in Minnesota

according to the most recent poll. The danger is that people will become complacent. I've already started praying for good weather state wide on election day - the conventional wisdom is that that helps the DFL.

[Beaker]

33. Yes, I think it's over....for Kerry, that is.

my gut keeps telling me that John is going to prove to be un-electable in a national race.

kkkarl r. hasn't even gotten started...

[David Dunham]

36. Kerry will win if we work hard for him. Bush will be toast.

[napi21]

37. You're right about Karl, but he's been dealat a lot of curve balls!

My guess is that Karl is crying under a desk in the basement right now. He's been thrown a lot of curve balls that were unforseen by anybody.

Who knew the prison abuse pictures would ever become public?

Who knew Ariel Sharon would lose on his proposal (that Bush supported) when it went to a vote?

What happens if the SCOTUS rules against Cheney on the energy meetings?

What if most people really believe what Clarke said in his book?

What's the outcome of the 9/11 Commission going to be?

The election isn't over yet at all! But Rove isn;t the miracle man everyone thinks he is. Guess what? He's human! Even a great wall falls after enough rock hit it!

We've got to keep throwing the rocks! Don't let up!

[BabsSong]

39. But the main thing folks is that WE cannot do it....now it is time

for John F Kerry to do it. He can't hope Bush will destruct. He can't hope that MoveOn and organizations like that will get the message out. He cannot count on faithful dogs of the Dems hanging around and taking anything that's thrown out. NOW John F Kerry has to fight. I will assure you right now that it doesn't make any difference if the goddamn Marine Corps fights for Kerry....Kerry has to fight for himself. This election is the first time I've seen this macho shit. We can't control it. But dear god if we have a reluctant prince who wants his vassels to do the dirty fighting, then the stupid, knuckledragger is going to win.

[napi21]

41. You're part right and part wrong.

Kerry does have to fight, but remember, it wasn't Bush making those calls, it was his supporters. Shrub always tries to keep his hands clean!

There is also something to the philosophy that "if your enemy is shooting himself, don't get in the way!"

I agree, Kerry should make statements on the trail about the BushCo misadventures,, but I think he should let it up to his surrogates to say the rough stuff.

[Selwynn]

46. I think you're exactly right.

I think its way to early to get all excited.