Berg video shows person with a 'US military cap' in frames

[Lori Price CLG]

News Update from Citizens for Legitimate Government
May 17, 2004
http://www.legitgov.org/
http://legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

Berg video shows person with a 'US military cap' in frames (globalfreepress.com citing Aztlan.net research) Berg decapitation video was filmed inside the Abu Ghraib prison --by Hector Carreon, La Voz de Aztlan, May 16, 2004 "...The most telling evidence that the video of the decapitation of Nicholas Berg was taken inside the Abu Ghraib prison can only be detected by performing a frame by frame analysis. La Voz de Aztlan did just that and some revealing frames came up that are difficult to see if the video is played on normal speed. Towards the end of the video, at frames 9306 through 9368, a person with a US military cap temporarily pokes about a quarter of his left head into the video. His neck, left ear and part of his cap and visor can be seen." (WARNING!! Graphic animated photo on Aztlan.net site.)

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=227
http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm

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[newsguyatl]

1. on edit

i just see a hand. skeptical about this claim.

[7th_Sephiroth]

4. i dont trust aztlan

they have alot of racist views and are openly working to undermine the goverment in the bad way

[PeaceForever]

35. That's true about Aztlan, but irrelevant to the point

No big deal, but you've made the ad hominem fallacy. Please read about it at http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

[Tansy_Gold]

92. I am not a logician, so I would like an explanation

If VozdeAztlan offers racist, homophobic information which is generally known to be untrue ("disinformation") but is cited as a relevant source in the Berg video analysis, why cannot information from other sources which frequently disseminate "disinformation," such as the CIA, FBI, Washington Post, CNN, etc., be considered relevant?

(edited typo)

[hexola]

94. Because we can look at the video...

And we can make our own conclusions...nobody is really citing it as a "relavant source" - they were just the ones that pointed it out...we can do our own alalysis on this one...

[PeaceForever]

114. Ok, I'll try to explain

What you said was that Aztlan is racist, and therefore their claim is false. The reason that's a logical fallacy is that their views on race are really irrelevant. If Aztlan told you the ocean was blue, would you say, "No it's not, since you guys are racist"?

You hear this fallacy all the time from Rush Limbaugh. Just listen on a typical day and, rather than actually look at John Kerry's beliefs on the issues, he'll attack Kerry's character.

Anyway, so just look at the Berg video yourself, and draw your own conclusions.

In regards to this question: "why cannot information from other sources which frequently disseminate "disinformation, such as the CIA, FBI, Washington Post, CNN, etc., be considered relevant?"

I think it certainly can be considered relevant.

[QC]

121. If a site believes that "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is genuine,

doesn't that call their judgment into question, at the very least? It doesn't necessarily mean that everything they say is false, but it does mean they are not to be trusted.

And yes, the "Protocols" is published on that site, along with lots of other bigoted hooha, including an article arguing that Jews deserve to be persecuted because of killing Christ and corrupting local cultures. The site, which is apparently the work of only one or two people, is about as legitimate a source as Stormfront or GodHatesFags.com, which is why it is so offensive to see it treated as Gospel on a liberal site like this one.

If you don't believe me, check it out for yourself: http://www.aztlan.net

[Baltimoreboy]

126. They are so bigoted

That they have the protocols in TWO languages. They also hate gays. Why is anyone from DU EVER going to that piece of crap website under normal circumstances?

[Djinn]

37. what does

"are openly working to undermine the goverment in the bad way"

mean? what's "the bad way" and WTF is wrong with wanting to undermine THIS government?

That said - I don't see and head there and certainly don't see a cap. I do see a man that was definelty NOT alive when decapitated though

[Mika]

84. Dr. Raul Castro Guevara??

Dr. Raul Castro Guevara debunked the video?? :crazy:

[lumpy]

108. Look closely/study the animated video

posted on the site. One can clearly see the head and the dark cap with white patch and ear.

[oostevo]

5. Check the aztlan.net link

There's an animated gif of the frames.

[Baltimoreboy]

68. Along with enough racism and homophobia

To fill an entire army of Nazi stormtroopers.

I've never seen anything like that site. Asscroft could lock them up tomorrow and I'm not sure I'd blame him.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beetwasher]

14. Oops!

Not so sure anymore...after looking at it more...It could be a slightly curled pinky finger that looks a bit like an ear...

[maggrwaggr]

17. It's somebody's hand and pinky finger

probably taking another photo

[troublemaker]

21. THANK YOU!

You would have to really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really want to see a "head" to see a plain, unobscured hand as a head.

[Beetwasher]

25. Not Necessarly True

I did see an ear at first, but then I was able to see it was actually a slightly curled pinky finger that does, remarkably, resemble an ear...

[Beetwasher]

22. You Might Be Right

Looking at some more it does now look like a slightly curled pinky finger that at first could (and did to me at least) appear to be an ear...

On edit: I'm almost certain now you're right! Amazing how perception can play tricks on you. It's somewhat humbling...

[JCMach1]

77. exactly, it's already been assumed more than one camera was used

[lumpy]

105. I see the cap

Dark cap with white patch with printing. You have to look at it several times to get the picture.

[Dropkick]

2. That's a mighty white ear under that hat, too

.

[lumpy]

106. The pale ear is clearly shown.

Thanks for noting this.

[ElementaryPenguin]

124. kick!

:kick:

[notadmblnd]

3. a local radioshow here today

they were talking about at the very end of the tape there is a western voice saying something to the effect "thy will be done". Has anyone else heard this being talked about?

[Dropkick]

9. yes, from breakfornews.com

http://www.breakfornews.com/berg-thywillbedone.mp3

[HFishbine]

85. For goodness sake

This phrase is repeated twice. It is undeniably clear the first time it is said that it consists of five syllables ("Thy will be done" is four). The second utterance is truncated by an edit.

[LeahMira]

100. Intriguing...

It's intriguing, but remember that none of us understands Arabic, which the executioners would logically be speaking. Quite possibly, there are Arabic words that sound much like "thy will be done." I'd be interested in hearing what a speaker of Arabic would hear.

[Straight Shooter]

7. I'm waiting for the tape analysis of the alleged "Thy will be done"

which is supposedly spoken by someone with Western intonation.

As for the cap insignia, has it been identified with any particular military or paramilitary organization? I can't bear to look at any graphic still shots.

[maggrwaggr]

19. it's not a cap, it's a finger on somebody's hand

[hexola]

34. Could some of our Christian DU'ers elaborate on "Thy will be done"???

I'm trying to research this a bit...

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.asp?ViewBible=Matthew+6%3A9%2C10

I'm familar with some of the phrases - but very Bible stupid...

[leftofthedial]

49. from the lord's prayer

"...thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..."

[hexola]

51. So we have Arabs killing a Jew, and somebody reading the Lord's Prayer...?

Yeah - something wrong there...

[Must_B_Free]

58. Last Rites

listened -

we are chasing shadows here.

You can't tell what is said. We may as well be looking for clues in the clouds - they hold as much detail.

[Tansy_Gold]

93. Last Rites??

A distinctly Catholic rite performed by Arabs for a Jew?

Oh, I get it. The CIA included a priest in their murderous five-some. Makes perfect sense!

/sarcasm off/

[hexola]

96. I think the "terrorists" are Iraqi Abu Grab prisoners forced to kill Berg

...at gunpoint by fundamentalist Christian soldiers...who would be reading the Lords Prayer as they conducted the execution...(tinfoil required)

But news is breaking - 4 People have been arrested in connection with the beheading...so we may know sooner than later...

[Cheswick2.0]

81. Our Father

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name
Thy kingdom come, they will be done on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we forgive our deptors.
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever and ever Amen

It is from the prayer Christians say Jesus gave us when asked what we should pray.

[hexola]

82. How does that fit into Mathew 6:10?

Just curious - is Mathew 6:10 = the lords prayer? or is the Lords Prayer part of Mathew 6:10?

[hang a left]

120. "Thy will be done"

is part of the Lord's prayer but, it is also a prayer in of itself. It is also an ending to a prayer. Such as "Thy will be done, in Jesus' name, Amen.

[KittyWampus]

8. There Are Legitimate Discrepencies In Berg Case

hopefully there won't be a ton of dreck to discredit what is real.

I have no opinon... did not see video.

Just saying...

[crossroads]

127. This link gives many reasons to believe the video is fake!

http://topplerummy.org/berg/


:kick:

[Lori Price CLG]

128. Here are a few more oddities sent to CLG

Sent to CLG by Eric Smith:

"Terrorist mastermind Zarqawi has announced his name but hidden his face. The CIA has said it is indeed Zarqawi, but he appears to be reading his own speech from a paper.

The person holding the knife -- allegedly Zarqawi -- has a Black hood at the video's beginning, but there is an edit (the camera time signatures change) and the knifeholder is then wearing a WHITE hood (and no bulletproof vest).

You'll also find the following oddities in the heavily edited video, which was heavily edited, presumably in a lab or on a pc:

WM-----|-----Video Clock-----|-----Screen Shot
0:00 ---|--- nothing ---|-------Arabic letters
0:05 ---|--- 13:26:24 ---|--- Nick Berg speaking
0:09 ---|---- 2:18:33 ---|--- Nick Berg sitting
0:20 ---|---- 2:40:33 ---|--- Speech in Arabic
4:36 ---|---- 2:44:56 ---|--- Speaker pushes Berg over
4:38 ---|--- 13:45:48 ---|--- Decapitation begins
4:43 ---|--- 13:45:52 ---|--- Picture lost
4:44 ---|--- 13:45:59 ---|--- Picture returns, decapitation continues

So, if we are to assume the timestamps of the two (?) cameras are accurate, this means Berg was beheaded at 13:47:49 (1:47) but at 2:44, nearly an hour later, he is sitting with his head intact.

<snip>

At frame 13:46:27, there is an edit and a person with a white ear and a green cap is seen entering from the right. Then the video is re-edited.

Matt Drudge reports that 'The statement in the video was signed off with Zarqawi's name and dated 11 May' , but Berg's body was reported found on May 10th -- the day before the video was apparently made!

Pay attention. This one is definitely a setup."

(Eric citing www.libertyforum.org) The CLG website has numerous oddities surrounding the death of Nick Berg, as well.

[charlie]

10. Anybody else see it?

I don't. I just dumped the frames from the animation and I don't see a head, ear, or cap.

[newsguyatl]

12. nor do i

just a very white hand holding the camera :shrug:

[Nevernose]

13. I see a few fingers

on the left hand side. The text at the Aztlan site suggests it is holding a video camera, but I see neither a camera, a hand, a hat, an ear, or anything else.

[Dropkick]

23. Screencap from the gif

http://www.pbase.com/image/29095948

edited to fix link

[Dropkick]

28. Can't tell, could be finger or ear

Next there will be an Anastasia Romanov ear matching trick to catch the culprits.

[BlueStateGirl]

36. In the screen cap it looks like a finger. When I watched the gif it looked

like an ear, and part of a shaved head.

Now, I'm not so sure.

[Dropkick]

39. The more I look at it

The more it looks like a finger. The left index finger outside of a handheld strap (that's the way I hold my handheld).

[WilliamPitt]

73. IT'S THE GUY HOLDING THE OTHER CAMERA, right?

I've seen a lot of stuff saying this was filmed by two different cameras. Would that hand to the right be the other cameraman?

[hexola]

74. Are there any shots that look like they came from that "other camera"?

Genuine question - no sarcasm...

[charlie]

75. Who knows?

We don't know how many cameras were used, except that it's possible, maybe likely, more than one. And we don't know what footage was used from which... meaning, we don't know much.

[JetJaguar]

76. Yes

One on a tripod.

The other hand held.

Either a third camera, or the first camera
removed from the tripod is seen with the finger.
This was probably edited out because it would have
shown the second camera man and or more of the room
as it was moved behind and to the right of the handheld.

In the opening section of the tape, there are
also signs of an edit between these two cameras,
tripod on left handheld to right.


Two cameras make sense, Three a possibility.
If there is a third nothing in the video appears
to come from it.

[Tansy_Gold]

95. Question to JetJaguar

You wrote:

"This was probably edited out because it would have
shown the second camera man and or more of the room
as it was moved behind and to the right of the handheld."



Question: What are you suggesting was "probably edited out"? -- these frames (and if so, where did Aztlan get them), or the switch from tripod to handheld and any footage shot in the process?

I know this may sound a bit pedantic, but I was confused at first and just wanted to clarify for myself what you meant.

Thanks

[JetJaguar]

133. It may have been more appropriate to say

that this part was never edited into the final product.

Meaning my speculative tripod camera move.

Not having anything to do with the fing(ear).

Just addressing the question of multiple cameras involved in the video.

On review I don't believe the tripod camera was moved,
having looked at the time stamps.

And seeing what appears to be one handheld film another.
I am now leaning to the use of Three cameras.


1 Tripod
2 Handhelds

Tripod: 12 hour clock, about 1 hour off of others(Daylight Savings?)
Hanhelds: 24 hour clock, unsynchronized, set close to same time.
All cameras in or about a minute apart from each other taking into
account DST and 12/24 hour discrepancies.

Tripod- tp- Left
Handheld1- hh1- Center
Handheld2- hh2- Right

Order of edit

Camera,Time stamp, <Chronological order>, length

hh1, 13:26:24 -26:27, <2>, :03

tp, 2:18:33 -18:43, <1>, :10

tp, 2:40:33 -44:12, <3>, 3:39

hh2, 13:45:47 -45:52, <4>, :05

hh1, 13:45:59 -46:33, <5>, :34

hh2, 13:47:47 -, <6>, unk.

at 13:47:52 the video I watched locks up here, so not sure if this is end.



-------------------------------------------------


Chronological order (tp time stamp changed to reflect 24 hour DST assumption)

tp , 13:18:33 -18:43 Introduction
(7 min. gap)
hh1, 13:26:24 -26:27 Introduction
(14 min. gap)
tp , 13:40:33 -44:12 Proclamation
(1.5 min. gap)
hh2, 13:45:47 -45:52 Decapitation
hh1, 13:45:59 -46:33 Decapitation
(1 min. gap)
hh2, 13:47:47 -


Just some more speculation, on my part.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. I didn't online, but I saved the gif and viewed it on my computer and

the image lightened. The back of the head, ear and cap brim are distincly visible.

Pretty fucking chilling.

[HFishbine]

87. Now all we have to do

is find a man with a fingernail on his ear.

[BlueStateGirl]

18. It took a few minutes to figure out what I was seeing, but yeah,

It is an ear, with a green military style cap, and an obvious military hair cut.

[Catch22Dem]

11. A hat doesn't tell me anything though

While I believe something very shady is going on with this Berg thing, the fact that one of the people off camera has a BDU cap, doesn't tell me shit. Plenty of people have those. They're everywhere. And I'm sick of the whole "white" arab thing. There are plenty of very, very light skinned arabs. I've been to the ME on a number of occasions, and not everyone is a skinny brown guy.

Gimmie something I can use here.

[mot78]

24. Don't forget the "fat Arabs" crap

I've stayed the hell out of the Berg threads, because these Berg conspiracies are just crazy beyond belief. My question is what would * have to gain from killing Berg? Today's WMD discovery is more in line with what I would expect from *. But finding some random guy and beheading doesn't help with public opinion.

[Minstrel Boy]

32. Berg wasn't "some random guy."

Haven't you been paying attention?

For starters, Berg was connected to Moussoaoui and was a business partner of a shady buddy of Wolfowitz.

He wasn't killed just for psyops. That was just the gravy.

[hexola]

42. Not * ...perhaps outsourced mercanary nutjobs!!!

The outsourcing of the Iraq war has probably opened the door for all kinds of whacks to go over there...

Ok my tinfoil take on Berg...He ends up -somehow- in Abu Grab...mistaken for a Peace activist...

The "terrorists" that killed Berg were really Iraqi Abu Grab inmates that were forced to behead Berg at gunpoint. Behind the guns are a group outsourced Soldier of Fortune types who believe they are spreading the Christian empire...and a peace activist would be seen as the "enemy"

[GodHelpUsAll2]

43. Let me see........

What could * gain?????? Stir up anger and rage here and make people feel better about the ocupation? Could be,,,,,,,, Get the really zealous nuts even more fired up about his war?????? Maybe..........
Make the abuse to the Iraq prisoners seem so minor in comparison? Maybe............... Yep, those are definitely gains for *.

Any more questions?

[durutti]

129. If it was a conspiracy, I don't think Bush was involved.

Consider: if intelligence officers where responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere (as it appears they were), then they could have directed something like this in order to take the heat off themselves.

[PragMantisT]

15. interesting n/t

[The Shadow]

20. Look Carefully

It looks more like a finger,(pinky?)when you watch it, you can see what appears to be a fingernail on the so-called ear.

Great job by Hector to find that, perhaps it is a camera person though.

What does anyone else think?

[Beetwasher]

27. Yes, It's a Pinky Finger

Someone's left hand which means it's not the camerman's because the camer is to the left of whomever's hand it is...

[Guaranteed]

134. It actually looks like a right thumb, to me.

Definitely NOT an ear- I don't see an ear or a hat or anything like that.

Someone needs to lay off the crack pipe.

[Minstrel Boy]

29. Yeah, I think you're right.

pinky it is

[Beetwasher]

31. The Dark "Band" Across the Tops of the Other Fingers

Could be the "grip" on a handheld video camera that your three middle fingers pass through while your pinky sticks out and is exposed like that. Anyone who has a handheld should recognize it if you look closely.

[seabeyond]

40. i'm with pinky too

and looking like a second camera person that got a bit in the shot

[Catherine Vincent]

26. Why would this person wear a US military cap at a beheading?

[Lori Price CLG]

30. Berg: Americans 'had day-to-day control over me before they X-ferred me'

Berg: Americans "had day-to-day control over me before they transferred me" Contradicting information --What happened next is unclear. The Iraqi police chief has denied that his forces in Mosul took Nick Berg into custody; a U.S. consular official at first told Berg's family that he was in U.S. custody, but officials in Washington later said she was misinformed. According to Berg's own account, in an e-mail sent to his family April 6, Iraqi police arrested him on March 24, and took him to see American military police. They said they would perform a background check on Berg; a day later, they returned and said they had no interest, but that the FBI would want to check him out. The exact timing is not known. He was placed in an Iraqi police cell block with 70 petty criminals and what he called accused "war criminals." The Americans, according to Berg, "had day-to-day control over me before they transferred me" to the Iraqi police cell.

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2004/05/16lastdaysofnickb.html

[ConsAreLiars]

33. Be very distrustful about this source.

Poke around and you will see why.

Remember that Cointelpro operations work by sewing disinformation and diverting attention from the main enemy by fomenting internal squabbles over irrelevancies. I won't watch the video, but anyone who looks at that little .gif file and claims to see a US military cap like the one in Pic 4 is being devious, or is hopelessly gullible or seriously deluded. My inclination is to put Aztlan.net in the former category, but the second and third might also be valid. Claims like this do nothing but discredit honest efforts to understand what really happened.

[Lori Price CLG]

38. And.... the myriad of other 'oddities' surrounding the Berg murder?

There are tons of them. One, or even a few of them, means nothing in and of themselves. But, combined, one would have to admit, there are quite a few pieces of the puzzle that do not seem to fit. For example, the time-stamp jumps (by hours) on the tape. Hence, an EDIT was carried out. Why would al-Qaeda edit the tape? Why is Berg wearing an orange jumpsuit, as the prisoners of the U.S. wear? The named killer of Berg by the media (Al-Zarqawi) allegedly (reported in the mainstream media) DIED in March, etc., I could go on and on....

-Lori Price

[seabeyond]

46. oramge jumpsuit

i dont see the jumpsuit as prison issue. it has the same cut, but husnad saw it was a two piece in the video and thought hte neck is the same cut to me it is a much thinner silk type material opposed to the thicker cotton

the material doesnt look the same

[ConsAreLiars]

59. Before you "go on and on"

check each alleged oddity. The time stamp jumps and edits are fully consistent with two cameras set (almost) one hour apart. If you are suggesting that Berg was still wearing his (US) prison-issued jumpsuit rather than one provided by the captors, or that he never left the prison, explain why people who saw him after his release never mentioned this odd costume. Why choose to believe one lie (Zarqawi dead or amputated) from the US over another? Not to mention the "SAME white chair" silliness or the "SAME color wall" or racist stereotyping that "Real Muslims Never Wear Gold" or Ayrabs are all scrawny and never wear white shoes and don't fidget or stand in an "at ease" posture.

All the "oddities" I have seen are either factually false or based on simplistic worldview where "some" means "all" and conclusions yield facts rather than the reverse.

None of this criticism is to suggest that the US wet-work operatives would be unwilling or unable to stage and carry out the murder of this young man. I just don't think they needed to act directly. In my view, the killing was the inevitable consequence of many actions by the US and the CIA especially, and no special operation was needed to bring it about. Sure the Cons will try to use this, but they didn't need to "do it" to be the cause it. One more name added to the list of those killed by the hate-monger's "War on Terra."

You're doing a very good service with your site. Don't get tricked into chasing after this red herring.

[hexola]

62. You're thinking too big...think small groups of whackos...

Like cults...maybe someone's smaller, private war...

[ConsAreLiars]

65. "think small groups of whackos..."

That describes the Fundie fanatics on both sides. They are hard to tell apart sometimes. They are equally vicious. Still, the facts do matter.

[hexola]

66. Agreed - few facts in evidence...

but I've wondered about hardcore Christian Fundamentalists...the Iraq must be a pretty attractive oppourtunity for them to get involved in spreading the Christian empire...all the outsourcing makes the perfect oppourtunity for would-be Christian terrorists to infiltrate.

[Lori Price CLG]

64. To bumbler:

Thank you for your compliment about the CLG site...

To be sure, some of the 'oddities' surrounding the Berg murder that CLG has presented will turn out to be merely coincidences and/or meaningless tidbits.

But, I choose to disseminate the information, and folks can 'sort it all out' in their hearts and minds. As, we sure won't hear/read about ANY of the oddities via Faux News, MoreSh*tNoBrainsCable, or CensoringNewsNetwork.

It's the quintessential (what Faux declares but does not practice) "We report, you decide."

-Lori Price

[ConsAreLiars]

67. I very much appreciate what you do

And examining these questions is a worthwhile part of it. Prejudging these questions serves no one.

Gathering together info - good.
Questioning the official story - essential.
Mistaking "maybe" for reality - fatal.

The analysis of the tape I referred to was here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=bookmark&forum=104&topic_id=1596064

[neebob]

90. Not to mention the apparent belief

that they don't have access to quality video equipment or know how to work the crappy old 1980s camcorder that seems to have been used.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

41. it looks more like a pinky finger/hand holding a camera

than a ear with a recognizable hat.
i am very suspicious of the official account of the situation, but i don't see anything that allows me to recognize a specific kind of hat.

maybe someone who sees it could outline it?

[rumguy]

44. there is no FUCKING military CAP

I'm starting to understand why witches were burned and the jews were slaughtered by the millions. People see things that aren't there, it's a simple as that. They see them and then believe they are true and then pass it on to others. It's sad.

I'm so fuckin' pissed that anyone would claim that is a military cap!

I dare anyone to step foward and say there is a military cap in that video.

I dare you...

[Beetwasher]

45. I Never Saw a Cap, But I Did See An Ear at First

But after watching it several times it became apparent it was a finger (pinky), but it did/does have a remarkable resemblence to an ear!

Perception's a bitch. We can all be fooled. It's actually quite humbling and sobering when you see it in action.

[hexola]

47. Pinky, Ear, - what I see is Desert Camo...

I dont care what body part it's attached to...anyone else see that...?

[rumguy]

48. I saw fingers holding what is probably a camera

nothing more

[hexola]

50. They seem to be backing out of the frame as he slices...

Like they took a step back...I'm looking in the lower right...

[rumguy]

52. yep they are there briefly

did he back out of the frame, or just move? did he get out of the way of the main camera?

Well I don't know...but there sure isn't a military cap there....

[hexola]

53. I cant see a cap - just the color of Desert Camo fatigues...

Sort of below the "hand/ear"...

[rumguy]

54. I don't see that

sorry :shrug:

[hexola]

56. Here's my screen cap...with arrows

[rumguy]

57. the top thing is a pinky

the bottom part is side of the hand...

that's what I see, and pretty clearly - I'd bet money on it...

[Must_B_Free]

61. you can seven see the finger nail.

it looks like someone holding a camera

[RapidCreek]

71. Obviously the CIA, MI or one of Rummy's secret squads

Is seeking to dilute valid points of discrpancy in the Berg story with obviously moronic sasquatch drivel. Looks like a few of them might even be member of this board.....I'd hate to think anyone could be as stupid as some evidently are in this thread.

Get a clue people. An EAR? For christs sake it's a goddam hand holding the lens of a camera! Don't get sucked in with this silly shit....you're doing exactly what they want. Focus on that which is obvious not shit you need a real vivid imagination to see. The more you entertain silly bullshit the sillier you look.

RC

[Castilleja]

131. You are right, Rumguy, from what I saw

The "cap" shape comes from the wall showing between a couple of the men standing around the body.

[pocoloco]

55. Gimp

frame 1 full veiw of Berg's head
frame 2 little finger appears Bergs head obscured
frame 3, frame 4 no movement
frame 5 finger moving out of picture, the object obscuring Berg's
head appears to be a cap with an insigni on the left which
wpuld mean the wearer is looking directly left?
frame 5 & 7 cap moves slightly left and then down staying in focus.
frame 8-11 cap goes out of focus but still obscures berg's head

What did I miss, my eyes beginning to water??

By the way "The Gimp" is freeware rated almost equal to Photoshop by some. Linux and Windows version.

[hexola]

60. Not a video tool

they seem to analysing the video tape...not these web videos/animations...

[pocoloco]

63. Yes, bound to be more detail!

[Dying Eagle]

69. The walls still make me think

Look at the pictures, what are the fucking odds that Abu Ghraib Prison and this Terrorist hideout would have the SAME COLOR WALL. I mean think about it.

[hexola]

72. Not just the color - the lighting...

It just looks like the same lights reflecting off the same color walls...this is the hardest evidence to dismiss...

[Dookus]

70. Sorry...

I see a pinky, in the posture of a left hand holding a video camera. This also ties in with the different time stamps - they used two cameras.

[JCMach1]

78. A camo hat doesn't strictly mean the head is American

however, I do see one wearing such a hat and filming. It looks like the camo brim of a hat.

[JCMach1]

79. Even if it is a hat-- a note of caution please...

The Iraqi army uses a wide variety of uniforms, either indigenously produced or purchased before the 1990-91 Gulf War from countries including Pakistan, France, and Great Britain. Regular army troops are mostly issued olive green or light brown utilities, as well as several variants of olive green/light brown field jackets that offer only limited protection from the weather. Another commonly issued item to regular troops is the British-style olive green/light brown “woolly-pully” sweaters. A wide variety of field caps and winter pile caps are used.

Camouflage uniforms are abundant among Republican Guard troops, since many areas of Iraq have foliage. The Republican Guards use various patterns, from French four-color desert, to tropical, to European disruptive pattern material (DPM) — not so much for their camouflage effectiveness but for their quality. The Republican Guards also use several indigenously produced, predominantly green, woodlands camouflage patterns. Two dozen different types of camouflage uniforms have been identified, and they are not issued on a unit basis, as is often reported. Some units are equipped entirely in a specific pattern, but this is due to the availability of the uniforms at the time. It is also very common, even in Republican Guards units, to mix shirts, jackets, and trou-sers of different camouflage patterns, or olive green/light brown garments with camouflage...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/insignia.htm

[neebob]

80. I see an ear and neck of guy with a shaved head

OK, that's interesting. According to this site, shaved head guy + orange jumpsuit + wall color + resin chair = filmed at Abu Ghraib. Not that I don't think it's possible, but that's pretty weak. The chair thing is just stupid.

Anyway, this prompted me to poke around until I found the video and watched it. http://video.bmj.net/Alluh_Akbar.wmv - thanks, Freeper Adam36. Maybe it's my old dinoputer - playing a second or two, buffering for a few seconds, playing another second or two - and the fact that my speakers are broken so I don't have audio, but I didn't see what I expected and have to say I'm less horrified and haunted than I was just thinking about it.

What I saw was three or four minutes of Berg sitting there, then he's on the floor with the guys holding him down, then his head is on his back. I tried to replay it, but it started doing the buffering thing again so I gave up.

Here's what I think: Most people have decent enough technology to shoot a video nonstop and have it look real - not be all grainy and choppy and questionable. If my 15-year-old son wanted to cut a guy's head off, videotape it, and put it on the internet, he could do it (using someone else's computer) and no one would doubt what they had seen.

So here we have these supposed way-serious terrorists who can't even make a convincing video. I think someone cut the head off of a corpse.

[trumad]

83. I agree ...

next question would be how did Berg become a corpse... As we've seen in the last several weeks, torture sometimes leads to death...

[neebob]

86. That would explain his looks

Pale, thin - I'm not convinced he was alive anywhere in that video. Does he move at all? I couldn't tell.

Even if he was alive while sitting in the chair or on the floor, it's plain he'd been through an ordeal.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain how he got into Iraq without an actual contract, and why he and/or his dad thought it was a good idea after being caught up in a federal investigation.

[seabeyond]

88. facial and eyes mouth nothing changed throughout

i thought that odd. he moved. would start tensing up, loosen shoulders. tense up, release shoulders. did that like three times. but face didnt change or move throughout

[drfemoe]

117. every time

he *moves* his shoulder, the guy standing behind him moves his leg.
Never blinked once.

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/05/12/beheading_video2/index.html

I've watched it two times at the above source. It seems it might be better quality than what others have reported.

I'm not planning to view it again. It is very disturbing. It wasn't "gruesome" in the way one might expect.
The photos of the (other) civilian casualties of war fit that description more fully.

[neebob]

130. You're right

After watching the Salon version on a better computer, I have to take back some of my earlier comments. It does seem to be a better, um, production than I said, except for the time stamps and the screaming that starts before they grab him. He seems to be alive in the chair; sitting on the floor, I don't know. I still think he was dead when they cut his head off.

Could be because I watched it with skeptical eyes, but I don't think it's as gruesome as they say. However, it is disturbing, and now I'm not so sure.

[TrogL]

110. I thought of that - yes, he does move under his own power

About 30 seconds in he shifts around a bit to get more comfortable.

[Lori Price CLG]

98. US video standards are technically lower than Iraq's, etc.

So, why is whenever the CIA/Faux News wants us to see a 'foreign' video, it always seems to look green and grainy? Just curious.
It is reported that Iraq uses the PAL broadcast standard, which is superior in quality to the NTSC standard, used by the US. (See technical details below.)

The first colour TV broadcast system was implemented in the United States in 1953. This was based on the NTSC (National Television System Committee) standard. NTSC is used by many countries on the American continent as well as many Asian countries including Japan. NTSC runs on 525 lines/frame.

The PAL (Phase Alternating Line) standard was introduced in the early 1960's and implemented in most countries except for France. European The PAL standard utilises a wider channel bandwidth than NTSC which allows for better picture quality. PAL runs on 625 lines/frame.

The SECAM (Sequential Couleur Avec Memoire or Sequential Colour with Memory) standard was introduced in the early 1960's and implemented in France. SECAM uses the same bandwidth as PAL but transmits the colour information sequentially. SECAM runs on 625 lines/frame.

http://www.alkenmrs.com/video/standards.html

[ArkDem]

89. Wow, great source!

.

[Baltimoreboy]

91. Sarcasm?

Please tell me that was sarcasm.

[meow mix]

97. heres a clip too - i see pale ears, shaved hair, greenish looking cap

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2004/180504militarycap.htm
oops!

[mzmolly]

103. Looks like a hand held camara to me?

???

[ElementaryPenguin]

113. kick!

:kick:

[durutti]

135. Oh, please...

That could be anything. It's too blurry to even tell for sure.

[2Design]

99. Orange jumpsuit tells me he was in usa custody.

We are the only ones who give out those orange jumpsuits... this is a usa slaughter of one of its own and we don't know why ....this is why some are afraid to speak up....bushCo kill people without remorse

[seabeyond]

101. explain the shine, thinner material, and silk like appearance,

please

it also appears more bagging and jammie like. though neck same cut and an orange

it does not look the same

[mzmolly]

104. The entire video is *off* and grainy.

That explains any color difference, though it looks orange to me.

Your not saying terrorists issues pink shiny jumpsuits are you?

One suggestion that has been made is that Berg was released wearing his prison uniform and never made it to his desitnation?

[soup]

116. Wouldn't this guy notice (and note)

if he was wearing an orange jumpsuit at the gym?
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/15/Worldandnation/A_jolting_awareness_t.shtml

------
Things he did note:

a Westerner with ivory skin and a red beard

black steel-toed boots

His skin, hair and thin beard made him stand out in a gym filled with Iraqis

The TV pictures and still images of a captive Nicholas Berg were nothing like the man I met. His skin was pale, his youthful beard thick and sculpted, and he seemed smaller.

-------

If I were to question anything about this particular article, it would be the difference between a young man with a thin red beard and and a man whose beard was thick and sculpted.

[rumguy]

102. My god man! You are a hoot!

That orange suit proves the USA killed him? WTF?

Let's think about this for a second, ok? The CIA wants to kill a man to make it look like AQ did it..hmmm, think they'd leave on the his orange prison jump suit. Duh!

But anyway, it doesn't look anything like an actual prison jumpsuit...

What the hell are you thinking?

[Tansy_Gold]

111. I think it's time to rent a movie

Antonioni's "Blow-Up" comes to mind.

I haven't seen it for maybe 35 years. . . . . . .

You wanna bring the popcorn, rumguy?

:evilgrin:

[QC]

107. Ears don't have fingernails. Fingers have fingernails. n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

109. On the video - the cap is to the bottom right.

Can be viewed for few seconds. The person pokes their head in for a few seconds - then jerks back. It does look like a person with a military haircut. I can't really see the cap though.

[ElementaryPenguin]

112. I see BOTH - a pinky AND a white FACE w/military CAP (through underarm)

It appears out from under someone's underarm.

It seems that people on this thread ARE NOT LOOKING AT AND COMPARING THE SAME THINGS!

The face, hat, and EAR are NOT the clearly visible PINKY FINGER and camera - they are a bit higher and little more toward the center of picture. The face is obscured a bit by shadows - but look closely - it is there - and it does appear to be a military figure looking on.

:puke:

[charlie]

115. Man, I've looked and looked

Had all the separate frames laid out in front of me since yesterday. I still don't see what some of you are seeing.

[ElementaryPenguin]

118. Look at link from post #97

Not really hard to see the guy's face coming from beneath an underarm - he's nearly looking right at us. I can see how it would be radically improved by lightening it - it is dark.

[ElementaryPenguin]

123. Actually, it wasn't #97 - it was the Aztlan site w/motion

sorry, my fault.

[John BigBootay]

119. Dumb. n/t

[ElementaryPenguin]

122. And DUMBER!

:think:

[sofa king]

125. BDU caps

http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/0103.html?id=TIgxfzpy green
http://www.armynavysuperstores.com/bducapshats.htm woodland

Stars and Stripes article on "cap-molding." Mostly about the floppy hats, though, not the baseball-style ones.

"Cap molding mostly is an enterprise of officers and warrant officers, since sergeant majors tend to frown deeply on this sort of innovation. The officer corps is in a better position to take the heat."

If I see anything in those pictures at all, and I'm not sure I do, I see a woodland BDU long-brimmed baseball-style cap with the corner of the bill trimmed. Long ago as a kid I used to have an old green BDU which had the corners of the bill trimmed at a roughly 45 degree angle and the fabric re-sewn.

I have no idea why it was like that, but if I can go entirely into the realm of suggestion, the longer-brimmed baseball caps are probably preferred to reduce reflection on camera, scope, or binocular lenses.

The corners of the brim might be trimmed to lower the instances of them appearing in the camera frame when one is filming. Or, it might be because really old caps tend to wear at the corners:



The S&S article above seems to indicate that the baseball caps are only for indoor use in Iraq, with the floppy full-brims preferred for outdoor use to protect the back of the head.

Okay, now my own shiny hat comes off and I have to say this: this doesn't tell me shit, either.

[genius]

132. I've been telling people about this all day.

As far as I can tell, CLG got this story before any of the other Democratic Internet groups. I strongly recommend that everyone sign up for CLG's news updates.