The pro-war Bush guy at my office now thinks it was a huge mistake

[Hamlette]

He gave me so much grief for being anti-war. Calling me unpatriotic and a "damned hippie." So I ran into him today and said: "You still loving this war of yours in Iraq?" To which he replied: "Nope. I've changed my mind. It was a huge mistake."

We talked a few more minutes and I said: "Certainly you're not going to vote for Bush again are you? He said "I don't know but I don't like Kerry." I asked "why not?" and he said: "He's too wishy washy, you know, the flip flopping thing." To which I replied: "You flip flopped on the war. It's better to flip flop than to "stay the course" when you know you are wrong."

I left him standing in the hall nodding his head.

A couple of weeks ago I thought the war was a losing issue for us. Maybe not.

[countmyvote4real]

1. Try to keep him away from the kool-aid.

One sip and he'll find "flip-flopping" is much worse than the * Iraq folly, lies and global embarrassment of our country.

[kentuck]

2. Excellent response !

:)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. Good work, Hamlette. Your userid makes me hungry, BTW. EOM

[boobooday]

4. Wow -- you totally nailed that one!

That's awesome.

:hippie:

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Bill Wade]

5. Hmm, I wonder why he changed his mind?

I doubt it was any peaceful reason, or feeling sorry for thousands of innocent dead Iraqis.

[rolodomo]

6. Wow, you turned the flip-flop issue around on him...

but in a positive, personal and poignant way. I keep thinking this whole flip-flop issue will be the next big thing to attack *'s credibility with. I hope the Kerry team is just holding off for now, until they're closer in, when they get a good shot at chopping off the plank * has walked out on.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. That was what was so sweet about his response. The Nobel prize

for comebackery, and it doesn't even sound like he was nasty about it.

I think a good response for the flipfloppery thing, in this time of shrubco "staying the course" straight into hell, is to point out how comfortable they are with shrubco never admitting any error or change of course while the whole country feels like the Iraq war is some kind of nightmarish pit we need to climb out of.

[rolodomo]

10. Yep, that is a good point: he never admits to a mistake...

and he never fixes his mistakes. That's weird..., "Al Gore" type weird (using SCLM language here).

[kskiska]

23. He's never admitted to a mistake his whole life

He never had to. Someone would come in and "fix" things for him, then set him up in another venture where the process would be repeated. No one can do that now.

[leesa]

7. He doesn't notice Bush flip-flopping on a daily basis for his entire

tenure? How blind are these people?

[gratuitous]

9. It's tempting to bring down the hammer

But now is a good time to press the advantage. We don't have to turn Hamlette's co-worker into a rabid DUer, but let's get his vote come November.

Excellent job responding to the "flip-flop" charge. Supply a couple of Bush's flip-flops every now and then (you know he'll make them), and lock this guy's vote up for November. He'll persuade himself given a chance, and now that he's looking at things with a new set of eyes, that chance appears pretty likely.

[robbob]

18. I guess he didn't hear anything about that

on Faux news?

[calimary]

11. A WORLD-CLASS response.

I'm gonna remember that one!

[AP]

12. These torture pictures have really turned things around in a way that

I never thought possible. And the Berg thing seems to be compounding people's feelings about the war being wrong rather than playing into a sense of vegence.

Those torture pictures appear to have had a greater impact than every march, every protest, and every critical word written and spoken about the invasion since it started.

I think people really ask themselves how in the world can the US be bringing freedom to country where you have to assault, rape, torture, eloctrocute, and humiliate its citizens.

Americans know that those pictures are the iconography of freedom-repression and not freedom-brining.

[sampsonblk]

13. Give this round to Zawahri

For once, he got his message out and it made sense: this murder of Berg was in retaliation for the Abu Ghirab prison war crimes.

I am not in favor of the terrorists, or this murder. My position is the same as the Berg family. But its clear to me that this kind of thing is not what they do every day. So its equally clear that the act, the filming and the publication of it were meant as a statement about the prison disaster.

Journalists, since 9-11, have consistently refused to allow the terrorists "message" to get out, favoring Bush's (bogus) claim that they hate us because they hate our freedoms.

Once the public connected Berg with Abu Ghirab, I think the dye was cast - this Berg thing is solidifying support for our anti-war, anti-Bush position.

[AP]

14. The damage was already done by the US prison torture pictures.

In theory, Zawahri should have undone the outrage. The Berg pictures should have made Americans mad at Iraq. Instead, we're mad at Bush. We're saying NONE of it is worth it.

I reiterate, there was no erosion in support for Iraq despite all the efforts (including Dean's and Will Pitts, Joe Wilson, uranium, and jokes about "Mission Accomplished").

Those pictures of Americans humiliating Iraqis in prison, the pictures with the German Shepard, the thumbs up, that caused ALL the damage.

I really think Berg was a blip.

[bpilgrim]

15. the TIPPING POINT

and EVERYONES EFFORTS played its part, imho.

:hi:

peace

[proud patriot]

16. Man that was a great response

:thumbsup:

[Delano]

17. How infuriating.

I guess I should be happy that many are changing ttheir minds, but WE ALL SAW THIS COMING! This is playing out EXACTLY as we said it would. I have been somewhat surprised at individual acts like the Berg beheading, but overall, the war has gone exactly as I expected. The only thing I didn't count on was sky-high gas prices to cause eventual stagflation...

A LOT of reputable people, including conservatives, advised against this war. Why do these people believe Joe Scarborough and Bill O'Liely over respected experts?

It was SOO obvious too that they were lying or at least exaggerating a lot about the WMD.

I wish I could be happy about this...

[Occulus]

19. The war is a WINNING issue for the Dems

IF they have the strength to ask the really hard question.

[opihimoimoi]

20. I suspect this guy may be embarrassed and hates to lose Face

Be gentle, allow him slack to change his mind with honor and a little face left hanging. Better odds for a complete change of heart.

[Hamlette]

21. It's difficult to admit a mistake as tragic as this one

that's why I thought the war was not a winning issue for Dems. Although all of us believed the war would be a disaster none of us predicted this. The irony is breathtaking. (The secrecy of this admin and the abuse of the basic human rights of the people who were to greet us with candy and flowers is what may well bring them down. Whew. Karma rocks.)

I intend to get this guy's vote. It was a good natured ribbing on my part. He apologized for giving me crap about the war. Given my position at work he has to get along with me so it won't get nasty. (I'm not his boss.) None of the republicans I have talked to at work (the only place I rub elbows with republicans) support Bush.

Someday I'm going to get up the nerve to take on the Rush listener in the office or the two rabid anti-gay marriage people.

[JawJaw]

22. going down

"But the Captain said we
had to stay the course.."

[Oddman]

24. Great analogy!

I think it is finally sinking in! A rigid, bullheaded, unalterable and defiant course can lead to unequivocable disaster after disater.

Blood is on the hands of our Lady MacBush.

Out damn bush! Out, I say!!