It looks like Kerry will be elected the next President. We have a problem.

[Cleita]

Even if we have a legitimate election for a change, the novo-nazis who now have power in our government aren't going down without a fight. Believe me they aren't. One of the ways to install imperialism, is to arrest anyone who disagrees with the present regime. So between November and January, there is a lot of time to arrest everyone involved with the new President, charge them with treason or whatever trumped up charges they can come up with, conduct a kangaroo court and keep King George in power because he is what is best for us.

Anyone want to challenge me?

[Eric J in MN]

1. Why bother? Bush controls the electronic voting machines.

Why bother? Bush controls the electronic voting machines.

Diebold machines will show Bush winning by whatever amount they choose.

[Cleita]

2. Even if they do, a big turnout against Bush will still win the election.

I am confident there will be a big turnout. The polls out today with Kerry ahead confirms it with me. Since most of those polls are conducted in red states in the Middle West, it says his best supporters are pissed off.

[Eric J in MN]

3. During the 2000 election, -16,000 votes were recorded for Gore

During the 2000 election, -16,000 votes were recorded for Gore.

As long as Diebold can report negative votes for John Kerry, there is now way to elect Kerry, and no need for post-election arrests.

[Cleita]

35. They aren't getting away with it this time.

But, we are still in deep doodoo because they have gained so much power.

[Eric J in MN]

47. Yes, they are getting away with it. The Voter Confidence Act

Yes, they are getting away with it. The Voter Confidence Act isn't scheduled for a vote in the House or Senate.

Diebold can report whatever election results it wants.

A meaningful recount will be impossible.

[Eric J in MN]

48. For people who want to read about the -16,000 votes

For people who want to read about the negative 16,000 votes for Al Gore from a company later purchased by Diebold in Volusia County, Florida:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm

[TheWizardOfMudd]

52. Eric

I am ignorant about voting machines, except in Oklahoma. We fill out a big form by using a special pen to color in an arrow that has a blank space in the middle of it, next to a candidate's name, on a paper voting ballot. Then, the ballot is fed into a machine which registers the votes and stores the paper ballot in a bin.

Isn't this a good voting machine? Who else uses them? As far as I know there have been no problems.

[Eric J in MN]

53. It sounds alright.

With the voting machine you describe, if anyone suspects a miscount, the paper can be reviewed and used for a recount.

My biggest concern is with elecronic voting machines which don't print paper ballots and therefore don't allow a meaningful recount.

My ideal is for people to count the votes instead of machines, but the machines you describe sound alright.

I don't know which other states use the machine you describe.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

55. I think it is a good machine

I hope people with leadership qualities like you can influence other states to use them, whatever they are. I don't think there has been a problem in Oklahoma for years and years with these machines because, obviously, each individual precinct can count the paper votes if there is a problem or challenge. It has happened, and nobody ever complained after a precinct recount.

Thanks

[coloradodem2005]

37. What polls. Address?

[neverborn]

39. Volusia County is all I know.

[Cleita]

41. And tell us what the results were there?

eom

[Cleita]

40. Here you go.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/14/bush.kerry/index.html

[OKNancy]

13. All right, that's it

Stop it! When you post stuff like this it does nothing more than suppress turn out. Why vote, it doesn't matter anyway. Sorry, but that is just overwought, emotional bull-pucky.
I'll say it right now....Kerry is going to win, and voting machine problems won't make one bit of difference.

[Cleita]

14. Sigh.

We know Kerry is going to win. We knew Gore won. The problem is, will they actually become President?

[OKNancy]

22. I hate rehashing 2000

and it sucks real bad and it still hurts, but there was a lot more problems with Gore and the election than just Florida.

Democrats are united now, despite the b.s. posted on DU.

[Cleita]

25. If what is posted on DU is is BS, why do you post at all?

It seems you are not in the right camp.

[OKNancy]

33. I knew I should have qualified

my post.. and written..."not meaning you"

There is a lot of BS written on DU and anyone who reads here for very long knows that.

As a Clark supporter, I saw so many lies posted here that I thought I would have to have a full time job just debunking them.
"Haitian man-titties" was the most fun to research.

[Cleita]

36. I stayed out of that forum deliberately.

There was nothing constructive about it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. Wrong. There were a lot of problems in 2000, but...

...you can't blame those problems on Gore.

First, the captive mainstream press was pounding on Gore from Day One. The message being delivered by Gore was NOT getting to the public.

Second, the same voting "problems" encountered by Democrats in Florida were also encountered by Democrats in Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Missouri, Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. Voters were either blocked from their polling places, and/or polling places were shut down with voters still in line, and/or voters were told that their regular polling places were closed and that they would have to go all the way across town to vote.

"B.s. posted on DU"?? What exactly do you mean by "b.s."??

[cally]

4. If it's true that the military top brass leaked

the Red Cross report and the photos, then they won't allow a * takeover.

Every election, I either celebrate or mourn the day after the election when I find out who won. This time, I'll wait until Kerry takes the oath of office and see chimpy fly off to Crawford.

[Eric J in MN]

5. The idea that the news media will report a Kerry victory and then

The idea that the news media will report a Kerry victory and then Bush won't leave office is absurd.

Bush doesn't want a civil war.

[cally]

6. Before 2000, I thought it was absurd

that the Supreme Court would rule that all the votes should not be counted in a Presidential race. I agree it is somewhat absurd, but I still won't completely celebrate until January 20. You can celebrate election day.

[Eric J in MN]

8. I'm expecting Diebold to select Bush, so I'm not expecting to have

I'm expecting Diebold to select Bush, so I'm not expecting to have anything to celebrate on election night.

[Cleita]

7. Are you so sure?

When he brings the troops home, and he is being backed into a corner to do so, whom will he turn them on? I say the other camp, the evil, elitist, gay loving, abortion loving, forest loving LIBRULS.

[Eric J in MN]

9. What corner? His mansions? Running another baseball team?

What corner? His mansions? Running another baseball team?

Don't you think Bush would rather buy another baseball team than plunge the country into a civil war?

[RC]

12. I agree

These criminals cannot afford to lose. They know they will go to prison.

[Eric J in MN]

54. Nixon didn't go to prison and neither will Bush or Cheney or other

Nixon didn't go to prison and neither will Bush or Cheney or other top Bush officials.

[molly]

10. I will challenge you - Kerry will be our next president

BTW - I'm going to bed - I am very tired - so I'll respond in the morning.

We the people will win - take my word.

[Cleita]

11. Fair enough.

I don't know what dark corner of my mind this comes from, but if things can't get worse, I think I can say in the next eight months, we will be living in interesting times.

[gasperc]

16. we will get stuck with a bigger pile of turd, fucked economy, Iraq

I mean, the complete fuckation this jackass has caused in just four fucking years is unbelievable. In 1992, I felt very hopeless and pessimistic about the future, worked like hell for Clinton and by 2000 things were looking pretty good. Now this fuckhead gets in and in just three years we are at war in two countries, the world HATES us, we're bleeding jobs and we have a $477billion deficit after we were supposed to pay off the debt by the end of the decade.

:wtf:

[Cleita]

43. Worse than that, he as taken us back to the end of WWII.

I know. I was alive then. Let's hope we can recover as well.

[OKNancy]

19. Snap out of it

They are creeps and power grabbers, but this kind of stuff has been going on for ages. If Kerry wins, they will moan and groan and scheme and plot, but it won't be any worse than when Bush I lost.
( Kerry will be smarter than Clinton and not give the vast right-wing conspiracy a chance go after any perceived weakness)

[Cleita]

21. Again, I must say, you are sure?

Bush I seemed not to be propelled by religion like our little gift from Christ.

[submerged99]

15. The military would arrest him and take great pleasure in "interrogating"

The State department is embroiled in a public feud with the Pentagon and the military despises Rummy, Wolfowitz and the other Chickenhawks. If Bush tried to pull a coup, he would be imprisoned in a heartbeat and the military men that the Chickenhawks have been sandbagging would take great pleausre in "interrogating" them. Even the whore pundits like Brooks, Friedman, Will, Carlson etc are turning on the Chimp and Co. because they know the people are fed up with them and at the tipping point.

[Cleita]

18. I so hope you are right, but do look how Chimpy got into power

to begin with. He beat out McCain in the primaries even though he was the dim son candidate, and just got shoe-horned in there.

Surprising, no?

[Generator]

17. I know many here think otherwise, but seriously I disagree

that these are the worst sociopaths ever installed in government.

Hey, there's that Nazi word again.

They are incompetent arrogant fuckups. Some of them are idiots and some are pretty near evil as they come. But really, does anyone read History around here? This is hardly the end times. If they were truly as evil as you feared, I wouldn't be able to write this and you wouldn't be reading it. The cracks wouldn't be showing everywhere from every side, because they would actually truly be SMART enough and evil enough to shut everyone up.

But I know I'll never convince anyone.

Yes, I believe Kerry is going to win and the country will probably go back to being as messed up as it was under Clinton and Kerry will turn out to be too "Repuke" for my blood, and I'll even threaten to vote for a third candidate (maybe Dean will run again yeah) in 2008 then I'll get scared and vote for Kerry again no matter how dissapointed I am in him because I will remember how awful, horrible and near to disaster four years of Bush were.

[Cleita]

24. It's never the end of times.

"They are incompetent arrogant fuckups. Some of them are idiots and some are pretty near evil as they come." This pretty much explains Nazis to me. Read about the period if you aren't up to history in that sector, but I am sure you are so analyze what you know.

At the end of the Third Reich, Hitler tried to do end times. He ordered that what was left of Germany was to be destroyed. All the fields of food were to be burned, all the petroleum burned, all the factories destroyed, everything that would allow people to survive was to be scorched. Fortunately his orders weren't followed. It still was awful.

[OKNancy]

28. Thank you

Maybe it is because I was a history major and am a former history teacher, or maybe because I lived through Nixon, but I find all this doom and gloom a bit too much.

Also I don't believe in "evil". I think everyone acts in their own self-interest. When their self-interest collides with your(my) self-interest then that is when we have a problem. "Good" people try to act on their own self interest so as not to hurt others, "evil" people don't care.

[Cleita]

30. Words are labels aren't they?

I am sick of people still thinking we have a democracy. We don't. Look at history. Look at the pattern. If a dumb stupid secretary type like me can see it, why can't you?

[Alerter_]

20. Protect our Constitution - Get the State Government involved

Especially with issues like the war, the National Guard, and the TORTURE - our state government need to be informed and aware and consulted about EVERYTHING that is going on.

Anyone - Democratic or Republican, federal or state - that has been elected to public office, or judges that were appointed, need to be immediately informed of every detail.

Democrats should work with Republicans, conservative and religios, to stop the torture and war and bring the criminals to justice.

Any Republican or Democrat working for the Bush regime - or compromised by them - should be isolated and NOT cooperated with. We are the majority.

[Cleita]

27. Yes, real transparency.

eom

[Maddy McCall]

23. Oh, come on! That is just ridiculous. That's what the freepers were...

...saying about Bill Clinton during his final months as president.

I think some of you give the neocons WAAAY too much credit.

[Cleita]

26. I might guess that the reason they said all this shit about

Clinton was because they thought about it. At the time, I also thought it was ridiculous. I still think it's ridiculous if it is us, but I don't anymore if it is them. Wake up will you!

[Maddy McCall]

29. LOL! If someone doesn't share your gloomy foreboding...

That person needs to "wake up?"

The conspiracy theories on DU this week are quite comical.

[Cleita]

31. Laugh away. On January 20 or 21 I may join you, but not before.

I guess dumb people like me aren't allowed an opinion.

[Maddy McCall]

32. No, I don't think you are dumb.

And you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I just don't share your pessimism.

[Cleita]

34. Excuse me, but in my dictionary pessimism is a sort of

neurosis or negativism about everyday things. What I am talking about is, if you have experienced what, and kept up with what has happened since Bush selection and you aren't aware of what is going on, wake up!

I have to admit I am old and I remember things from WWII and up so I have a little edge on a lot of people on personal experience. These are dire times and scary.

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v2.0
==================
 
The time now is 10:31:03PM EDT, Friday, May 14, 2004.
 
There are exactly...
2 days,
1 hours,
28 minutes, and
57 seconds left in our fund drive.
 
This website could not survive without your generosity. Member donations 
pay for more than 84% of the Democratic Underground budget. Don't let
GrovelBot become the next victim of the Bush economy. Bzzzt.
 
Please take a moment to donate to DU right now. Thank you for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[Trajan]

44. Damn, You guys are GOOOOD ....

Some rather interesting posts in this thread ....

Funny thing is: I think everyone is a little bit right, a little bit wrong, and a WHOLE LOTTA we dont know ....

I dont trust the fascist GOP to EVER go away quietly, nor will I get so distressed by the possibility that they wont ...

Hey: they ARENT Gods .... They are fallable, and they are prone to failure like anyone else ...

Then again; History is replete with ready examples of powerful parties using military power to subjugate and overthrow gentle people ...

Will THIS cabal attempt the OVERT overthrow of the 'greatest nation that ever existed' ? ... I doubt it, but we really CANT be sure what the future holds ...

Will they try to subvert the will of the american people by COVERT fraud and subterfuge ?? .. Heck: have they ever STOPPED ? ...

We cannot know precisely what the future holds ....

While the darkest possibilities justify pessimism, the self-interested individual, one who chooses to maintain a decent balance between pessimism and optimism, could perhaps wish to NOT ponder such darkness; with equally compelling justification ....

'What ? .. ME worry ? .... '

Anyways, Great thread ...

You guys are smart; you MUST be DUers ...

[BiggJawn]

45. That's a little blatant even for the Bushies...

Sort of like "Hey, we weren't supposed to lose, so before I have to hand this thing over to that Kerry guy in January, we're gonna fuck it up so bad that nobody can fix it.."

No.....

His style is more along the lines of "Mah Fella Murkans...Th' unspeechable has happened an' we have been attacked here in our homeland agin....I have declared a State of 'Murgency, and have issued Zekootive Orders halting the transfer of the presidency to Mr. Kerry. This is only TEMPORARY (just like my Skull n' Bones name that I've held fer 30 years) an' as soon as TWAT is won, Ah'll gladly step down an' let Mr. Kerry take office. In th' event that doesn't happen in either our lifetimes, I don't know what my nephew George will do....Thank you, Gawd Bless Murka, an' go shop at Wal-Mart!"

Of course, THEN they will come down on us, Jackboots stomping, on the 20-30 of us that can tear ourselves away from "Nekkid Titties Showcase" on TeeeVeeee long enough to hit the streets....

[Cleita]

56. That's probably the type of sneak attack they will try.n/t

[pezcore64]

46. hey , im with ya

down with the nazi's and fascists!

[izzie]

49. Ill wait to the day after to count on Kerry. I watched Bush hack down

McCain and I recall Nixon had a hit list and people like G. Gorden Liddy that helped him.Watch was goes on now. We are a pretty much half and half country.

[reprobate]

50. If all dems voted absentee ballot there would be no problem

[TheWizardOfMudd]

51. I hope about 20 million gun owning constitutionalists . . .

will go to Washington and straighten things out, if that happens.