WHY is Zell Miller STILL a "Democrat"??

[jtb33]

I mean, does he espouse ANY of the traditional Democrat values? That aside, is there some benefit he reaps from keeping the "D" next to his name? I know there are DINO's and RINO's, but I don't understand why they stay that way... Please help me understand.

[gulfcoastliberal]

1. Good Question!

Isn't there some kind of parliamentary procedure the dems can use to expel traitors like Zell? Get him the fuck out of the party!

[saracat]

19. I wish there was.

I can't understand why he can give a keynote speech at the Repug Convention, and endorse Bush and remain a Dem. Precinct committee People can be busted for supporting a member of another party ,why not a Senator? Is he not an elected Party Official? Did he not run as a Dem/ Does he not have super delegate status at the convention? Think of it.One of our super delegates goes to the Repug convention instead, or maybe he goes to both, the troll!

[Hippo_Tron]

26. You can't force somebody to change political affiliation...

But that doesn't necessarily mean they can't kick him out of the caucus. However, at this point it makes no sense. If he were a young senator who had just been elected or re-elected to another six year term, it would be a different story. But the guy is in his 70's and he's only going to be a senator for another six months and after that he's not a problem.

[NutritionFacts]

30. Yes

The constitution explicitly says that the two houses of congress can manage their members... including expulsion.

[tcfrogs]

32. Fine, expell him

but what good would it do????

He's not running again.

I think it would be bad for the party to try to boot a current member, PR wise. Don't you think the media would love that? Dems try to ouster Senator? Right before (six months, that is) an election that will likely vote Rep anyway?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. Because the Party hasn't thrown his ass out, along with several others....

...like Lieberman, Biden, and Bob Kerrey.

JMHO.

[JohnnyFianna1]

4. Why Kerrey?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Did you catch his performance during the 911 Commission hearings?

[TSIAS]

29. Disagree slightly

Those three really aren't in the same category as Zell. At least all three of them do support Kerry.

[leyton]

3. Not all politics is national.

Zell Miller obviously concerns himself more with national politics since he's in the Senate, but I'll bet that while he was Governor of Georgia and before, when he was rising through the ranks of Georgia politics, he aligned pretty well with the state Democratic party. As such, the Democratic party has been the one to propel his career into the Senate, so I'd suppose he's a Democrat out of loyalty to his state party, not necessarily the national party.

[MilDem]

5. He likes the role

He likes being a Democrat so he can say "shame on Democrats for not being conservative. I feel alienated from my own party." He loves being showered with praise by Republicans, and he likes being paid attention to. (If he was a Republican, no one would care what he says.)

He does espouse the traditional values of old-school southern Democrats. Remember, the South used to be a one-party state controlled by ultra-conservative Democrats.

[mitchum]

6. Because he thinks he can damage us a lot more as a Trojan Horse...

rather than going to his natural cesspoool in the repub party.
This way, Miller can present himself as a "Democrat" who deplores the "terrible" direction of the Democratic party. He serves as a very useful propanganda tool for his republican masters.
I despise the lowlife.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

22. Agree with all this. More propaganda value for shrubco as a Dem. EOM

[wyldwolf]

7. The REAL question is...

When we retake congress and the White House, will he change the name of his book to..

A National Party ONCE More?
Was Always A National Party, I just Lied?

[Hippo_Tron]

36. "A National Party No More, The Conscience of a Conservative Republican"

[LunaC]

8. He's the Mole! n/t

[Cleita]

9. Probably so a real Democrat can't run against him.

So if two neo-cons are running in each party, the neo-cons win. Just speculating.

[doni_georgia]

14. He's retiring this year, so he's not running against anyone

HOWEVER, I wouldn't be surprised to see him run again for governor in 2007.

[PurityOfEssence]

10. 'cuz there are strange fellas in his basement and bats in his belfry

(If this is inscrutible, it comes from a comment of his that he considers the Democratic Party his home, but like living in an old house where he has these strange people in his basement.)

He's being pig-headed, and he's being obstructionist: if he truly has any feeling for the party, he should see that whether it's really changed all that much, whether he has or whether he's just realizing the difference, if he cares about it at all, he should leave. He's not in step with the organization, to put it mildly, and being so is one of the elements of belonging to such an organization.

[Eurobabe]

11. hellifiknow?!?

[jtb33]

12. Thanks!

I appreciate the quick replies. I had no idea about "traditional southern Democrats".

I just *have* to ask though... what exactly is a "conservative Democrat"? (other than defining it by saying "Zell Miller" - heh)

[bigbillhaywood]

15. Oh yeah, who do you think enforced segregation--Democrats.

For many years after the Civil War, the Republicans were still considered the party if Lincoln by white Southerners. The Democratic Party held dominance for nearly 60 years through an uneasy alliance of liberal Yankee Dems and racist Dixiecrats.

When the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed by a Democratic administration, many defected to the Republicans. But the Republicans didn't really start taking hold of the South until Nixon. I spent most of my youth down South, and I still remember that even in the 80s, many Southern Republicans were more liberal than the incumbent Democrats. In the 90s when Isakson (R) ran against Zell for Senate, Isakson was the more liberal of the two on social issues. Zell Miller is truly a holdover from a bygone era when Southern Democrats were more conservative than their Republican counterparts. Lucky for the Democratic Party, though, folks like Zell are a dying breed.

[HawkerHurricane]

18. Answering your questions...

Once upon a time...

Political parties are alliances between often disparate groups. Prior to the 1930's (when FDR started changing things) the Democratic Party was the party of Northern White Ethnics (Irish, Italians, Poles, Etc.)(NWE) who felt oppressed by the factory owners AND Southern Whites who worried about what would happen if Blacks got real political power. The Northern branch was run by successful NWE who wanted to see their countrymen have a better life (at least that's what they said). The Southern branch was run by wealthy Southerners who used the blacks as a bogeyman to keep the non-wealthy white majority voting for them in spite of being actively against their interest.
The Republican party was, in the north, the party of the wealthy elites... including the professional class... and the anti immigrant/anti Catholic movements. In the South, they were the party of the working class (mostly black) while trying to convince white working class they were being manipulated.
In modern terms, then, the conservatives were Northern Republicans and Southern Democrats, while the Liberals were the Northern Democrats and Southern Republicans.

In the years of the Great Depression and WW2, the Southern Democrats became more and more angry at the national party... a national party that more and more made common cause with the working class in the North, INCLUDING blacks... In 1948, Strom Thurmond broke with the Democrats to form the Segregationist Party. The true reason for the effort was to break the control of the party by Northern Democrats by forcing their candidate (Harry Truman) to lose. It failed. The backlash against blacks in the south during the 1950's was so bad, that the Northern Democrats, allied with the Republicans, were able to push through much civil rights legislation, topping off with the signing of the Civil Rights Amendment by LBJ. LBJ said that he had just lost the South for the Democrats for a generation... he was right.

The Republican party saw a opportunity to take advantage of the Southern Democrats defection, and did so under Nixon: the Southern Strategy. Nixon spoke out of both sides of his mouth (a skill he was very good at), telling Northern crowds he supported Civil Rights while telling Southern crowds he favored States Rights. (as a aside: whenever I hear the words 'States Rights', I automatically translate it to what it means: Screw you.) Southern whites voted for Nixon, and Nixon gave them what they wanted: more racism. Southern Democrats became Southern Republicans. Shortly after that, Southern and Norther blacks became Democrats... and Democrats became the liberal party. It didn't happen instantly; of course, but you can look at the presidential voting records. The 'Solid South' went from being pure Democrats to being pure Republicans.

Conservative Democrats are the last remnants of the Southern Democrats who for whatever reason haven't changed parties. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were, in many ways, Conservative Democrats from the South... except that Carter was a good man, and Clinton was a great politician; neither of them followed the anti-civil rights and pro states rights line of the other Conservative Democrats.

All right, more than you wanted to know.

[AlCzervik]

13. Because he's petty, mean and spiteful

and appointed, sound familiar. The appointee's tend to stick together.

[Claire Beth]

16. good question....

he isn't a true democrat.

[spanone]

17. He's not a democrat....he's just too cheap to change his stationary.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[billbuckhead]

21. I think Zell and the two Joes are more reps of the Military-Industrial com

I think Zell and the two Joes are more representative of the Military-Industrial complex than the Democratic party. Zell represents Lockheed and the banking industry. His number job is to keep those bases open and factories humming.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. Joe and Zell are in two totally different leagues...

Lieberman is trying to push the party to the center from within. Joe does criticize the liberal wing of the party but not the party as a whole. Zell is Frist's sock puppet on the democratic side of the isle. If they need somebody to sign a piece of paper to make something "bipartisan", Zell is their goto guy. As much as I disagree with Lieberman's politics, he still works for and supports the democrats. Zell Miller is simply doing everything he can to help the republicans at this point, which is why I think he perfectly fits the definition of DINO.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. Some rats jump ON to sinking ships

!!

[Hippo_Tron]

27. You guys make too much out of it, the truth is that he's just a looser

He wanted to be a national leader of the party but only made into the senate later in life. He discovered that he'll never be a big leader in politics and decided to spend the rest of his career drawing attention to himself. By endorsing Bush, he gets to see his face on TV and gets the freepers to buy his book saying:

"Oh, well there's one democrat who gets it."
:eyes:

[LSdemocrat]

28. Bush wants him to remain a Democrat

Just so Bush can say, "I'm a bipartisan uniter. Democrats support me."

[bushwakker]

31. So he can get his name in the newspaper and his face on TV

If he was just another run-of-the-mill, wacked out, right winger no one would pay attention to him. He's more useful to the GOP as a "Democrat" then as one of their own.

[TheWizardOfMudd]

33. Don't give him any party money. I heard him tonight on Hannity's show.

He's a freakin' fool and an idiot.

[xultar]

34. Can't we run a Kick Zell Miller campaign @ the DNC? n/t

[bigbillhaywood]

I think Zell gets a bad rap, he's really an okay guy. I like him...

Made you look. He's a dick.

[napi21]

40. He has done one good thing.

As much as I hate Zell, and I live in Ga and voted for him! If he changed parties now, it would give a greater majority in the Senate to the Pugs. I know he almost always votes with the Pubs, but I think it would be worse if he actually switched parties.

For what it's worth, I've sent him MANY letters, as one of his constituents....never get any replays either. I think he is trying to preserve his legacy, and as much as I hate to say it, most Georgians agree with him.

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[Wapsie B]

38. Well, when a senator from the northeast

switched to independent, repugs started shouting that the Dems paid him off to leave the gop. Knowing how well the repugs project things, my belief is that the gopers probably slid a few under the table to good 'ol Zel so that he'd remain a Dem and hurt our cause.

[John_H]

39. This time daschle let him screw kerry. Jeezzus.

Not only does Zell let chimp call every one of his fucked up initiatives "bipartisan," not only does he provide the media whores with a"democratic" perspective that invariably agrees with the senate, but he helps the rethugs play a game that makes kerry look like he prevented unemployment extensions from passing. And wee little tommy worries about losing a few votes in South Dakota, and, as per usual, does nothing.

[PurityOfEssence]

41. "Cuz I'll never join the party uh them damn bluebellies!"

Save yer Confederate money boys, the South will rise again!"

[jtb33]

42. I appreciate the replies!

I understand *better* why he still has that "D" next to his name.

On the flip side, are there any Repubs that are like Zell Miller or Joe Leiberman?