Is this in poor taste?

[WilliamPitt]

Le Monde cartoon on truthout

[MikeG]

1. It's about how I saw it.

[Skip Intro]

2. I went with "poor taste"

But that doesn't mean I think it should be censored.

[jmags]

3. How do you think Nick Berg's family would react to seeing that

one day after a video showing him getting beheaded comes out for all to see?

Extremely poor taste.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

4. It's got a certain Ralleque flavor to it.

Actually, take the disturbing nature of the Rall cartoon, increase it by a factor of twenty, and you'll have this one.

[MikeG]

5. Would he have been beheaded if there was no ready audience?

[Minstrel Boy]

6. Sometimes there's nothing more appropriate than poor taste.

Though I think it's a poor cartoon. Took me a while to see the chopping block as a camera.

[VelmaD]

7. There has to be a better cartoon...

out there that makes the point. I'm not sure how I feel about this one other than I don't think it's very well drawn.

[jmags]

9. That's the way I think. I see the point the cartoon is making,

and while it is valid, there has to be a better way of making it. How to do that, I don't know, but that's why I'm not a political cartoonist.

[FlemingsGhost]

8. Brutally honest, for sure.

DUer reactions will be fascinating...

[Lisa0825]

12. Brutally Honest is the best description.

Would I publish it myself? No. Would I censor it? No. Would I prefer not to see it myself? Yes.

[DAGDA56]

10. Le Monde? Oh great, one more reason for some to blame the French...

...I agree with the above posts who say badly drawn, but shouldn't be censored.

[Rowdyboy]

11. Not Le Monde's finest hour

[mopaul]

13. it's brutal, that could be the point

very artsy, nicely rendered, brutal subject matter, probably made on a deadline, in the heat of passion. i don't have a problem with it, but bad taste is trendy, has been for a long time.

plus ya gotta figger it's them damn warped surrender monkey french folks.

i think it could be considered bad taste though. not all political cartoons are funny, not all are profound, but given this subject matter, it could be worse i guess.

i give it a B+

[Hubert Flottz]

31. Nice!

A Royal Flush beats everything else! Oh I forgot that the GOPers will throw down five aces to win!

[drfemoe]

14. Poor taste

But then, a French physician invented the guillotine, and the public was invited to the executions. In 2004, we have a digital crowd of witnessess. Is that what we want?

French, after Joseph Ignace Guillotin (1738-1814), French physician.]
Word History: “At half past 12 the guillotine severed her head from her body.” So reads the statement containing the first recorded use of guillotine in English, found in the Annual Register of 1793. Ironically, the guillotine, which became the most notable symbol of the excesses of the French Revolution, was named for a humanitarian physician, Joseph Ignace Guillotin. Guillotin, a member of the French Constituent Assembly, recommended in a speech to that body on October 10, 1789, that executions be performed by a beheading device rather than by hanging, the method used for commoners, or by the sword, reserved for the nobility. He argued that beheading by machine was quicker and less painful than the work of the rope and the sword. In 1791 the Assembly did indeed adopt beheading by machine as the state's preferred method of execution. A beheading device designed by Dr. Antoine Louis, secretary of the College of Surgeons, was first used on April 25, 1792, to execute a highwayman named Pelletier or Peletier. The device was called a louisette or louison after its inventor's name, but because of Guillotin's famous speech, his name became irrevocably associated with the machine. After Guillotin's death in 1814, his children tried unsuccessfully to get the device's name changed. When their efforts failed, they were allowed to change their name instead.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=guillotine

[AliceWonderland]

15. These days, the harsher the better

The world lurches towards heaven-knows-what, and people are concerned with a cartoon? With all the pap that calls itself news, the best thing may be harsh, poor taste.

It's not the best drawn cartoon, though. It might have even more impact if it were.

[DemExpat]

17. I go along with this assessment - necessary.

Harsh is what is needed, to counteract the global insanity, news spin, one-sidedness, and censorship out there, imho.

DemEx

[pfitz59]

16. What you don't see..........

Bush* holding the ax!

[Piperay]

18. Poor taste nt

:-(

[NotHereLong]

19. poor taste?

a majority says it is in poor taste, but from what i've read in these other threads, most of the 'people' on here want to see that. like the one w/ the link to tell cnn that the pictures of torture arent up for debate...come on.

[Spentastic]

20. Is this more

Of the family Pitt's moral crusade to determine what is worthy of civilised people and what is not?

When CNN can show Iraqis being shot dead while U.S troops cheer I'll allow other nations to show whatever they want.

"Taste" is coded language. It is being used to protect the status quo. Bollocks to it.

[DemExpat]

23. FYI - Pitt is managing editor of Truthout - which published this cartoon.

No moral crusade there.
:shrug:

DemEx

[Spentastic]

25. I know

I've just recently seen some interesting opinions from the family Pitt as regards what is acceptable behaviour for posters on DU. I was just wondering whether this is more of the same? Alternatively perhaps Will is getting in the neck from others.

Just musing.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Actually, no

The truthout editors were debating whether to use this cartoon, whether it was in bad taste or not. I wanted to get more people's opinion. If you can find my moral judgment on this anywhere in this thread, I'll donate $100 dollars to DU in your oh-so-righteous name.

[Spentastic]

32. Fair enough

Just checking. Perhaps you should ask your mum what she thinks?

;-)

[Raven]

33. Do you really have a problem with

trying to figure out what a civilized country should do in times like these? I don't. :-)

[Spentastic]

34. Lucky you

That sounds like that "moral clarity" thing to me.

I believe a civilised society should strive to uncover the facts of any given situation before pronouncing judgement. Taste or comfort may be offended by such discussions.

Actually Mother Pitt what is your POV on this cartoon? I'm genuinely interested.

[Raven]

Well, "the moral clarity thing" seems like something to work toward.

Maybe if we had some of that in the WH we wouldn't be where we are today.

As far as the cartoon is concerned...it took me a while to figure it out. The camera either means a condemnation of the media in general or it is a reference to the abuse pictures...either way, I thought it was pretty heavy-handed and I don't think it will do much to change minds. If I were Truthout, I would find something else.

[Spentastic]

39. Thanks for the reply

Moral clarity is what Bush claims to have. If such a phenomena exists I agree it would be nice to see some. Unfortuantely moral clarity in the real world seems to mean declaring oneself correct and ignoring all other points of view.

[iangb]

21. Poor taste?

On a board with dozens of posts trying to find a revolting video showing a brutal murder, we wonder that a cartoon may be in poor taste???.........Sheesh!

The cartoon indicts a bloodthirsty media......who obviously feed a bloodthirsty audience.

[turiya]

22. there is no such thing as poor taste

I forget who said it, but 'nobody can be offended without their permission.'

[lostnfound]

24. Well, it's not up to your usual standards of excellence, Will.

Your selection of photos / cartoons is usually flawless, and I send many people -- including mainstreamers -- to your site.

One thing I love about both you and my other hero Amy Goodman is that you both convey a great and reliable sense of respect for the individual. I'm sure you wouldn't want Nick Berg's father to happen upon that.

[Jacobin]

26. What's the point?

There's nothing nuanced or informative about it. It's just a depiction of the decapitation.

I think its gratuitous.

[rman]

30. so you didn't notice the camera?

or you didn't think about why it's in the picture?

it is a depiction of deception as well as decapitation.

besides cartoons typically are not informative in the sense that they present new information; usually cartoons are comments on events (not news about events).

[KittyWampus]

28. Doesn't Leave Much To The Imagination... The Way Good Cartoons Do

[Bonhomme Richard]

29. If you had to ask then you already know the answer n/t

[nostamj]

35. for what it's worth....

I wouldn't have used it in one of my threads.

without the bloody blade, maybe. maybe.

[Quahog]

36. Their point is unclear

My gut reaction is that the image suggests that Berg was executed because there were cameras in Iraq recording the torture. That's not a message I am comfortable with at all, and I hope it's not what they intended.

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[scrotim]

38. war, mass death and destruction, govt. deception are in poor taste

...it always amazes me how americans get sidetracked on issues such as the "tastefulness" of a cartoon which comments on a war which has killed thousands and thousands of people in the name of...nothing.

as though the war itself is obviously being conducted within the bounds of appropriate levels of "taste," and that only editorial comment on said war should be bound by civilized niceties.

wtf?

that said, this is a lousy cartoon, regardless of whatever point it is trying to make.

the viewer has to work too hard to figure out the symbolism.

and is the point supposed to be that cameras, read: images, killed nick berg? that if there weren't so many damned cameras and reporters and nosey do-gooders around, this splendid little war would have gone swimmingly? :eyes:

can someone help me out?