Hardball: nothing gets my blood boiling more than...

[girl gone mad]

journalists saying things like: "nobody was talking about occupation during the run-up to the war" and "everybody believed it was going to be a cakewalk."

Lehrer and Matthews were just saying those very things. "Nobody" got it right, so it's okay that they dropped the ball. Hello? Many, many people were saying it wasn't going to be a cakewalk and Iraqi's wouldn't like being occupied. The media chose to ignore those voices, and now they use their own ignorance as a convenient excuse. Elitist jerks.

[arcane1]

1. I don't believe for ONE SECOND

that the neocons *actually* expected parades and flowers

they knew damned well what they were getting into, and anyone who argues that the neocons "got it wrong" are just arguing within the false frame that these liars established

[texastoast]

10. They might be liars

I wish they were. There would be hope (maybe, no?) of some rehab in the future. I think a lot of them believe that the whole world really, really needs the American way (and just aren't aware of it and need to be shown the light). So self-deluded are the neocons that arguably sufficient grounds exist to get them committed to mental institutions.

[Cat Atomic]

13. Oh, I believe it. Remember, Pearle and Wolfowitz were the

idiots who, back in the 80's, thought we could simply install loudspeakers in the mountains of Afghanistan and watch the Soviet Army defect en masse. To the Mujahadeen.

And this AFTER the Soviets had been fighting there for years, and were well aware of the fate of the average captive Soviet soldier.

They're out of touch and simply stupid.

[StephNW4Clark]

2. We should send them the

Letters to the Editor, the Congressional testimony and reams and reams of evidence by us "ordinary" folk and foreign policy wonks and military wonks like Clark and Shinseki who said THIS IS GOING TO END IN DISASTER.

Do we have to do ALL their research?!?!

[LeinesRed]

9. Don't forget Robert Byrd...

throw in almost every word he's spoken from the Senate floor

[Solly Mack]

3. That's right up there with:

"who knew Bush would be this bad?"
"who knew Bush would do this?"
"Bush fooled me"

[dsc]

4. actually can you find even one published piece

which suggested Bush would be this bad. The closest thing I saw was Ivins book and even she felt he wouldn't be as bad as he was on foreign policy.

[Solly Mack]

8. Yeah but who needed a published piece to tell them that?

I certainly didn't need a talking-head, pundit ,or political writer to tell me.

[dsc]

15. Than I am sure you can supply some evidence of your wisdom

I am sorry but literally no one anywhere felt Bush would be this bad. If you honestly knew how bad he would be you were close to unique if you weren't unique.

[treepig]

16. that's easy

"My fellow Americans," Bush said, "at long last, we have reached the end of the dark period in American history that will come to be known as the Clinton Era, eight long years characterized by unprecedented economic expansion, a sharp decrease in crime, and sustained peace overseas. The time has come to put all of that behind us."

Bush swore to do "everything in power" to undo the damage wrought by Clinton's two terms in office, including selling off the national parks to developers, going into massive debt to develop expensive and impractical weapons technologies, and passing sweeping budget cuts that drive the mentally ill out of hospitals and onto the street.

During the 40-minute speech, Bush also promised to bring an end to the severe war drought that plagued the nation under Clinton, assuring citizens that the U.S. will engage in at least one Gulf War-level armed conflict in the next four years.


http://chak.org/pages/onion/bush_nightmare.html

[Robbien]

5. In the run up to war over 350 pro-war guests were asked to

come on the talk shows. Only three anti-war guests were invited on the shows. I heard Amy Goodman say this.

So, their statements are right, nobody was talking anti-war because the anti-war voice was not allowed to be heard.

[LeinesRed]

6. I couldn't believe it!

EVERYTHING was spelled out beforehand.

[LeinesRed]

7. The media outlets

were too busy with their war countdowns and embedding their lame talking heads. I don't want to rip on the real journalists that are still there, just the ones that flew in and reported from an air craft carrier and then flew out.

[benddem]

11. The testimony by Generals Hoar and Clark

before the Senate Armed Services Committee spelled this all out. General Hoar warned of increased Al Queda recruiting and the dangers of House to House fighting. Both he and Clark said more troops were needed. You should be able to google that Testimony.

[StephNW4Clark]

12. Clark is psychic. Along with everyone else who had reservations about war

http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html

Force should not be used until the personnel and organizations to be involved in post-conflict Iraq are identified and readied to assume their responsibilities. This includes requirements for humanitarian assistance, police and judicial capabilities, emergency medical and reconstruction assistance, and preparations for a transitional governing body and eventual elections, perhaps including a new constitution. Ideally, international and multinational organizations will participate in the readying of such post-conflict operations, including the UN, NATO, and other regional and Islamic organizations.

Force should be used as the last resort; after all diplomatic means have been exhausted, unless information indicates that further delay would present an immediate risk to the assembled forces and organizations. This action should not be categorized as “preemptive.”

Once initiated, any military operation should aim for the most rapid accomplishment of its operational aims and prompt turnover to follow-on organizations and agencies.

If we proceed as outlined above, we may be able to minimize the disruption to the ongoing campaign against Al Qaeda, reduce the impact on friendly governments in the region, and even contribute to the resolution of other regional issues such as the Arab-Israeli conflict, Iranian efforts to develop nuclear capabilities, and Saudi funding for terrorism.

But there are no guarantees. The war is unpredictable and could be difficult and costly. And what is at risk in the aftermath is an open-ended American ground commitment in Iraq and an even deeper sense of humiliation in the Arab world, which could intensify our problems in the region and elsewhere.

- STATEMENT OF
GENERAL (RETIRED) WESLEY K. CLARK
U.S. ARMY


BEFORE THE
HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


SEPTEMBER 26, 2002

[bossfish]

14. The thousands of anti-war protestors didn't get their attention?

Most of us didn't dispute:

Saddam was a thug

Most of us did believe:

Iraq was not a threat.

Our $4bn military would win the military part easily.

Taking over their country was a BAD idea - colonialism/imperialism doesn't work.

A lot of us believed:

Bush and his cabal are a bunch of lying douchebags.

If they would have invited me to guest on their show back in the fall of 2002 / spring of 2003 I would have expressed these thoughts.