Beheading conspiracy...(MUST READ, HONESTLY)

[Bush_Sucks]

Consider the facts...


1) Extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials.

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on
the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible
blood on it.

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg
would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly
dubbed in.

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by
family.

I believe that Berg (or this lookalike character) was first killed (perhaps by lethal injection, poisoning, etc.), then decapitated after dead (explains lack of blood spraying everywhere). Berg video released at height of furor over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to release additional torture videos. Now torture videos will be witheld from public for reasons of national security. Now "patriots" everywhere will laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies". Sensitivity level of public gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners. Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing. Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic situations. George W. Bush sleeps well tonight while Berg family lives in torture. Serves Berg's father right for opposing Bush and the war of aggression against Iraq.

[Bush_Sucks]

1. I'm gonna kick this forever if I have to...

Unless someone tells me all this has been posted before.

[Mountainman]

12. The thing that gets to me is how all the talk shows are calling for

the US to increase the war effort now. It is too much like an orchestrated thing.

Also, why is there no accounting for his whereabouts after April 10?

How did he lose so much weight in one month?

[kalian]

2. Everything is pretty much what has been discussed here at DU

Bottomline is: the sheeple were fed another fake Osama tape...

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. I keep repeating...

I will not buy into that line of thought
I will not buy into that line of thought
I will not buy into that line of thought

.. because even as disgusted as I am with the current administration and their PNAC'd strategies......

THIS MUST BE BENEATH even the most diabological American system.

(As gullable as that my sound... some glimmer of what is right MUST remain...)

[FarLeftRage]

4. I came to that conclusion

just as soon as I heard about it.

I would not put past anything that these thugs do in the name of their greater glory.

All of sickens me so....

[still_one]

5. BULL SHIT

Berg was killed because of the incompentence of this administration to go after al quaeda, which is not a CIA/Mossad venture. Clarke, and every other expert in the field knows the origins of al quaeda. Where are you coming from?

[Taverner]

6. You had me going until this:

"Berg was killed by Al-Quaeda (known to be a CIA - Mossad joint venture"

Well I highly doubt it it's "known" to be this...you may think it to be but that doesn't make it "known" to be...

[Bush_Sucks]

9. Yeah, you guys are right about the Al Qaeda thing...

I'll delete it.

[charlie]

7. Link for that article

http://www.infowars.com/print/iraq/berg.htm

[Bush_Sucks]

13. Thanks for posting the link...

I got this from another message board and wondered where it originated from.

[zydeco]

8. This is so far fetched

if there was anyone other than the current cartel running the show I would not even reply. I wouldn't discount any theory at this point. It is more than possible.

[redqueen]

10. Could you please provide some detail on this part?

Berg was killed by Al-Quaeda (known to be a CIA - Mossad joint venture).

How is this known? I didn't know it. Can you provide some info to back that assertion up?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Muslims in Iraq

have condemned the execution as being against Islam. Muslims do not do what these men did. You treat captives with respect. There is only one Avenger, and that is God.

[QC]

22. Christianity does not permit frolicking with prostitutes.

But that didn't stop Jimmy Swaggart.

Islam does not allow suicide, but that has not stopped suicide bombers.

The idea that no person who identifies with a particular religion would ever do such and such a thing is absurd. People violate their stated beliefs all the time. Bush himself is an excellent example, a man who professes his Christianity all the time but never hesitates to lie or get people killed.

[TNOE]

14. Very concise

I think you've really put things (questions/facts/what's known) together nicely. I did not watch the video - knew better as I saw something on a freeper site weeks ago showing supposedly what "Islams" do... which in one case was behead a person. I really wished to God I had never clicked on that site and had never seen it - but fortunately the vision I had seen left for the most part eventually.

Might as well add one more "weirdness" to the mix - but I clicked on a site today - believe it was Prison Planet - and they said they were not show the video out of respect for the family - but there was a picture of the head - and I don't know.... maybe its just me - and obviously have no experience at this - but I swear that head did not look real to me.... at all. Looked like a mask....

[patriotvoice]

18. When you die, your face freezes.

Dead animals, especially humans, do not look real. Our eyes are innately attuned to the subtle details of facial expression -- the sparkle, the liveliness, the nuances -- that a dead face is horrid and appalling.

[TNOE]

19. Yea, I did know that

was with my mother-in-law when she died - had tube in her throat and for whatever reason the nurse left me in the room while she was "preparing" her - and I asked if she could help me close her mouth - and she said "no honey, we can't do that now" - and I realized it was froze...

but still.... it just really looked FAKE.... but like I said - what do I know - just add that to the mix.

[napi21]

15. The most curious point is the lack of blood.

A lot of the other points could be argued away one way or the other, but the lack of blood is, as the Pubs like to say, troubling.

THe biggest most pressurized blood vessels in the body are in the neck. There should have been blood EVERYWHERE!

[MrChupon]

24. see, I don't understand why this is such a big deal

I don't understand why lack of blood implies CIA inolvement.

Of course it means he was dead ahead of time, but whos to say Al Qaida didn't just kill him then put on the video?

Couldn't this just have been legitimate Al-Qaida who didn't have the stomach for beheading a live man?

[Sweatynipples]

my point

At this point I don't know what the administration is capable of doing. However, I believe this berg story is going to escape from the news within a week while the jail scandal will last for a lot longer. (especially if people see our soldiers having sex with inmates) I do not believe our administration had anything to do with the video but I can see them rushing the video out to the public for everyone to see, thus weakening the abuse pictures like you said.

[Fleshdancer]

16. The Abu Ghreb connection freaks me out a bit

and some of the excerpts of Berg's emails are finally coming out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21951-2004May12.html

SUNDAY, Jan. 4, 12:44 p.m.

I am well here in Iraq - for the last two days I have been in and around Mosul (Northern Iraq, on the outskirts of Kurdistan) which is a welcome break from the smog and crowds of Baghdad. Of course Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, is crowded and smoggy too, but at least we're only 20 kilometers from some bona fide hills and open space. ...

Tomorrow (Monday) I'll inspect a site in Sinjar (west of Mosul, towards the Syrian frontier and as close as I'll ever come to Syria). Then I'm back to Baghdad to hire our local business manager and hopefully get on two 1000' towers outside of Baghdad at Abu Ghreb (the site of a notorious prison for Army and political prisoners). So I am reasonably confident we can score some work out of this. It's treacherous, though - there are so many parties involved in this work and they all subcontract to people and none of them are specialists like us. ...

[patriotvoice]

17. Cross Reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1587446

[Mick Knox]

20. My responses as I grow weary of the "theories"

Consider the facts...


1) Extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

I would only agree if I agreed our gov did this and I don't. Timing is seemingly beneficial as the torture is now off the radar.

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for withholding additional materials.

Yes, but I'm not sure reinforces your overall theory.

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

True, prior to his release. It doesn't reinforce your theory. I'm sure he has eaten at McDonald's before, doesn't mean McD did it.

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

Lets pretend for a second you were a CIA hit man doing this: there is no reason to put him in that suit. Just as plausible - the terrorists could have put him in that suit to make a statement regarding Gitmo.

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

See above.

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

It was obviously condensed to make it smaller for download IMO.

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

I don't think that is clear. What is clear is that it is screwed up. If the CIA Dubbed it, I would imagine it would be perfect. Looks amateur.

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on
the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

Man, I hate to watch again to see if this one is true; maybe I will later. I did notice the odd flipping around.

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

I don't agree the hands are lily-white, all Muslims are brown, or all Arabs are Brown, so even if they are lily-white, it doesn't make it a CIA Job.

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

I don't agree with this stereotype.

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible
blood on it.

I saw pools of blood in the video I saw. It formed clearly. How many heads have you cut off exactly? Other videos I've seen of heads cut off are the same - pools of blood.

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg
would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

I don't agree - he did resist as much as possible. He was tied and held down.

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

They sure were open when his head was held up. I don't agree they killed him before, but even if they did - It doesn't make much of a difference. If I pretend a CIA Guy did this, I don't necessarily think he would get queasy about cutting his head off while alive.

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly
dubbed in.

The dubbing - I don't agree with it but could be. Maybe they dubbed it in? I don't know. Maybe not. I don't know that it makes it a CIA Job if it was dubbed in. The audio was screwed up, that I give you.

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by
family.

No one, including his family, is saying it is not Berg. I imagine they would be over joyed to announce it was not their son. This is a total non starter. Maybe they made him say it, maybe he read it off of a card after providing the info, maybe he did do it for sympathy.

I believe that Berg (or this lookalike character) was first killed (perhaps by lethal injection, poisoning, etc.), then decapitated after dead (explains lack of blood spraying everywhere).

I don't. I have seen other decapitations on video and haven't seen this spraying either.

Berg was killed by Al-Quaeda (known to be a CIA - Mossad joint venture).

I don't agree with that at all. No one I respect in politics is even saying that.

[Fear]

21. Could anyone explain to me whey their pants are

tucked into their shoes?, what is that?.......do they do that in the millitary? (ANY military?)

[Fear]

23. just do a search on beheading in google, will bring up some info about it

I guess it's interesting to read to see what history teaches us about it all. Also I would like to point out *THE BLEEDING PART IN THIS STORY!!!*:


Saudi Arabia - the beheading capital of the modern world.
Saudi Arabia uses public beheading as the punishment for murder, rape, drug trafficking, sodomy and armed robbery, apostasy and certain other offences. 45 men and 2 women were beheaded in 2002 and a further 52 men and 1 woman in 2003.
The condemned of both sexes are given tranquillisers and then taken by police van to a public square or a car park after midday prayers. Their eyes are covered and they are blindfolded. The police clear the square of traffic and a sheet of blue plastic sheet about 16 feet square is laid out on the ground.
Dressed in their own clothes, barefoot, with shackled feet and hands cuffed behind their back, the prisoner is led by a police officer to the centre of the sheet where they are made to kneel facing Mecca. An Interior Ministry official reads out the prisoner's name and crime to the crowd of witnesses.
A policeman hands the sword to the executioner who raises the gleaming scimitar and often swings it two or three times before approaches the prisoner from behind and jabbing him in the back with the tip of the sword causing the person to raise their head. (see photo)
Normally it takes just one swing of the sword to sever the head, often sending it flying some two or three feet. Paramedics bring the head to a doctor, who uses a gloved hand to stop the fountain of blood spurting from the neck. The doctor sews the head back on, and the body is wrapped in the blue plastic sheet and taken away in an ambulance. The body is then buried in an unmarked grave in the prison cemetery.
Beheadings of women did not start until the early 1990s, previously they were shot. 33 women have been publicly beheaded up to the end of 2003.
Most executions are carried out in the three major cities of Riyadh, Jeddah and Dahran.
Saudi executioners take great pride in their work and the post tends to be handed down from one generation to the next.

The cause of death.
Beheading is effective and is probably as humane as any other modern method if carried out correctly. When a single blow is sufficient to decapitate the prisoner, they lose consciousness within a few seconds. They die from shock and anoxia due to haemorrhage and loss of blood pressure within less than 60 seconds. However because the muscles and vertebrae of the neck are tough, decapitation may require more than one blow. Death occurs due to separation of the brain and spinal cord, after the transection (cutting through) of the surrounding tissues. According to Dr. Harold Hillman "this must cause acute and possibly severe pain. Consciousness is probably lost within 2-3 seconds, due to a rapid fall of intracranial perfusion of blood" (blood supply to the brain).
It has often been reported that the eyes and mouths of people beheaded have shown signs of movement. It has been calculated that the human brain has enough oxygen stored for metabolism to persist about seven seconds after the head is cut off.

http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/behead.html

[elperromagico]

25. Would it make a difference if the head were sawed off,

as it basically is in the Berg video, rather than chopped off, as it would be in a country like Saudi Arabia? I'm not well-versed in the workings of the blood vessels in the neck in response to such a sudden trauma, so I'm not at all sure.