60 Minutes II/tonight/ 8 p.m. ET

[Reciprocity]

Dont forget tonight.

Soldier talks about shooting of Iraqi prisoners, says ‘who cares?’

NEW YORK - A video that shows a young American soldier admitting to being a participant in the shooting of two Iraqi prisoners will air on “60 Minutes II.”

“I hate it here,” she says. “I want to come home. I want to be a civilian again. We actually shot two prisoners today. One got shot in the chest for swinging a pole against our people on the feed team. One got shot in the arm. We don’t know if the one we shot in the chest is dead yet.”

The CBS newsmagazine (which airs at 8 p.m. ET Wednesday) obtained the video diary of the soldier, whose name was withheld, talking about conditions at Camp Bucca and Abu Ghraib in Iraq, where Iraqi prisoners were held
For more...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4955074/

[madmax]

1. Another link

Inside Iraq's U.S-Run Prisons
May 12, 2004

Long before the pictures taken inside Abu Ghraib were broadcast on 60 Minutes II, there were warning signs that something had gone terribly wrong with the U.S.-run prison system in Iraq.

60 Minutes II exclusively obtained an American soldier's home video from Camp Bucca in Southern Iraq and Abu Ghraib in Baghdad, where American soldiers have been accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners.

The video shows a young soldier's disdain for the Iraqi prisoners. She says: "We've already had two prisoners die...but who cares? That's two less for me to worry about."

Two other soldiers who were at Camp Bucca and are accused of abusing prisoners there tell Correspondent Dan Rather that the problems began with the chain of command -- the same chain of command that was in charge of Abu Ghraib when the pictures of torture and abuse were taken.

Rather's report will be broadcast on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday, May 12, at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The home video obtained by 60 Minutes II shows what conditions were like at both Camp Bucca and Abu Ghraib.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/11/60II/printable616849.shtml

[roguevalley]

2. God. I wished I lived on another planet. Truly.

[Kanary]

4. I'm with you on that!

I believe that we more sensitive and caring people are here to do something about all this ugliness, but......any effort just results in failure, and dragging down those of us who really care.

I just don't see any answers. If we could only DO something.

Other than that, I want to wake up on another planet, where people are able to care about each other.

Kanary

[calimary]

7. Shit, I said that to a friend of mine this very morning.

[Reciprocity]

3. Thats a good read.n/t

[Tinoire]

44. Urgh, Where did MY Army find such people?!

Her videotape shows she didn't like Camp Bucca, or the people under her control: "These people get fed better than we do. Every day, they eat white rice, chicken. Every day we eat MREs. They are suck f****** a**holes. They f*** guys for pleasure and they f*** women for breeding. Excuse my language. I've been around a lot of people who cusses every day."

<snip>

“This is the compound, the ones that always break out. They have ... usually about three a week that breaks out. And of course, every time that I'm working, they never do it," she says on the videotape. "‘Cause they're scared of me. I actually got in trouble the other day because I was throwing rocks at them."

She says she threw rocks at the prisoners because they had been throwing them at her. In her video diary, she catalogs the other dangers in the camp: "This is a sand viper. One bite will kill you in six hours. We've already had two prisoners die of it, but who cares? That's two less for me to worry about."



Master Sgt. Lisa Girman

It’s a charge echoed by then-Master Sgt. Lisa Girman and Spc. Tim Canjar. Girman is a state patrol officer with 17 years in the reserves. She specializes in detaining prisoners of war.

<snip>

The commanders in charge of these two soldiers at Camp Bucca were also in charge of Abu Ghraib. One of them was Col. Jerry Phillabaum, a 1976 West Point graduate. He says: “Master Sgt. Lisa Girman took vigilante justice against a prisoner that she believed had raped … Jessica Lynch.”

<snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/11/60II/main616849.shtml

JEEZ!

[kaitykaity]

5. kick

:kick:

[Reciprocity]

8. kick

[kaitykaity]

9. kick

:kick:

[Blue_Tires]

6. I'm truly embarrassed

these people wear an american flag while doing these things

[Reciprocity]

10. It's on.n/t

[CatWoman]

11. OH..............MY........................GOD..........................

This shit is unbelievable.

[matcom]

12. more scotch on the way

my glass got empty quick

fucking a DAMN

can i say the word BITCH now?

[frank frankly]

details, please

much appreciated

[matcom]

14. i'll get banned for telling you what i want to do to that "england"

BITCH right now.

yeah, your a victum

C***

[Solly Mack]

16. You, too? She's pissing me off

[LynneSin]

32. I'm about ready to break open the booze myself

Maybe it's because I've never served in the military - but that Lynndie is just a horrible horrible person. In fact all of them are. I don't care who is in command. I have a boss at work that I have to listen to his "orders". If my boss asked me to do something that I knew in my heart was wrong - I would say something about it.

That gal looked way to happy in those photos while she tortured prisoners

[Solly Mack]

40. and that's the crux of it..England was required to follow her last LAWFUL

order...and not any illegal orders and or suggestions inbetween.

her last lawful order was NO abuse/torture...all orders to the contrary of that were illegal for her to follow..which is why "just following orders" is a crock of shit.

Sure, higher ups are also guilty...but as for these enlisted soldiers-they know the last lawful order is what they go by.

[Cocoa]

13. mean girls

[Solly Mack]

15. Very mean n/t

[ikojo]

17. Lynndie England came across as a calous you know

what. She exhibited absolutely NO remorse in the portion of the interview shown on 60 Minutes II tonight. What a good little nazi guard she would have made.

Just following orders sir.

[ikojo]

18. Lynndie England came across as a calous you know

what. She exhibited absolutely NO remorse in the portion of the interview shown on 60 Minutes II tonight. What a good little nazi guard she would have made.

Just following orders sir.

[CWebster]

19. Don't forget the boys...

http://www.hiiraan.com/htdocs/2004/may/Ghraib/iraqi_pow.htm

Scroll down.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. I think Lynndie just fried some of the Brass

.
.
.

I am starting to believe her.

Like she said "we didn't just wake up and say let's do "this" tomorrow"

Orders came from on up.

Fry Rummy FRY!!!

[peekaloo]

41. CBS Early Show this a.m. showed a portion of the interview where

she used the term "psy-ops". "Just following orders". Also that the participants were told to smile and what gestures to use for the photos.

I find her a tad disingenuous.

[Robbien]

21. The first two guards seemed like they had

much more humanity and were in a very risky situation.

The guard on the homemade tape just seemed inexperienced.

[matcom]

22. "inexperienced"

yup. it was "inexperience" that caused her to tell how they killed two prisoners the night before and they didn't have to "deal with them anymore"

two down, 7,000 more to go

:puke"

[CatWoman]

24. she sounded like a little snooty pampered bitch

[matcom]

25. THAT puts it mildly

i remember (as you do) that WE had our 'training' early on

FUCK THAT

what happened to being a HUMAN first???

"BITCH" is being kind to that HO

[Robbien]

33. What I heard was a tired hot frustrated very young girl

who cared about nothing and wanted to go home. That is what I meant by inexperienced.

[Ripley]

23. I agree...2 guards for 500+ prisoners?

Who threw rocks at them and then rioted! Criminy..that ain't their fault. Altho, the accusations will never be know to be true will they?

(The woman and man were kicked out of the Army, but not courtmartialed last year for "kicking prisoners in abdomen and groin" in retribution for Jessica Lynch being raped. They say not true.)

[napi21]

30. If there were only 2 guards for 500 prisoners, Rummy's in trouble.

He wasn;pt the only one who said that. The other guys said there were 45 guards for 7,000 prisoners.

This should be easily proven by wprl records and it seems to me this documents that Rummy's program of only needing a few "boots on the ground" plan is BS.

[Bunny]

26. The first two guards did seem to have some humanity

and, if their accounts were true, were in a dreadfully unsafe situation. They traded their care packages from home for med supplies for the Iraqis.

The young woman on the videotape was 20 years old. 20. When I was 20 my biggest concerns were where my next beer/joint was coming from, and, do I really NEED to go to my 8 AM class? She seemed to truly despise the Iraqs. We ask an awful lot of young people, I guess.

Lynndie came across very badly. No remorse, no concern for her actions, nothing other than following orders. Which is probably true. I doubt that they independently cooked that shit up. But she seemed to be enjoying herself in the pics, and nothing in her interview made me believe otherwise.

[matcom]

28. fuck Lynndie

lock her up. forever.

[Ripley]

31. But why is the focus so much on the females?

I'm not defending their apparent disgusting actions and alleged abuses, however no one starts threads saying...Gee what gentlemenly guys we have in the Army. Or "What bastards!" I find it hard to believe that with such a small number of females in combat positions or guards or CO positions, that the blame seems to focus on those few.

Where the hell is the interview with the 9 men in the pic with the naked guys tied together on the floor?

[CWebster]

34. How about these guys?

http://www.hiiraan.com/htdocs/2004/may/Ghraib/iraqi_pow.htm

[shance]

35. Good point. I guess its the Martha Stewart syndrome. More expendible

you know.

:)

[Robbien]

36. Or it could be that when told to shut up by the military

the guys follow that order while the females are willing to talk to sixty minutes. The show had four females who were talking and only one guy.

[Ripley]

38. Honestly, I wonder if it isn't part of a larger "plan."

Maybe a backlash to get women out of the military, or at least out of combat theatre. See, women don't belong there! Female General is to blame...incompetent, lack of leadership.

But if they did that, wouldn't they have to have to draft a whole lot of young men?

[Bunny]

39. (donning flameproof suit)

Because these women are the exception that proves the rule?

And our collective psyche is having a great deal of trouble processing this.

Despite historical (and anecdotal) evidence to the contrary, we simply cannot easily grasp that young women can be capable of this conduct. These women could be our sisters, daughters, cousins, sweethearts, etc. And OUR women simply would not act this way.

Just as we are shocked and repulsed when a mother kills her baby(s), but not especially so when a father does it.

It jars the senses. That's what makes it noteworthy.

[Ripley]

42. You missed my point.

I don't deny that females can be capable of sadistic behavior. I don't doubt that they could torture as much as the next guy.

I'm just curious why Lyndie's face is all over the TV and media and yet no one could identify any of the men from those pictures.

Seems unbalanced to say the least.

[shance]

43. No, of course you are right....look at Ma Barker, Bonnie (and Clyde)

Lizzie Borden, whoever.

However, the discrepency we are talking about is between men and women in this particular situation being the military. Someone brought up a good point that perhaps the women were more apt to talk about these torture incidents. That may be true.

However, I would venture to add that in a organizational structure that has historically been an all male regime, its the women that are going to be scapegoated and used first. Not to mention its been the photos of these women, namely Lyndie (sp?), that have garnered so much attention from a male dominated/owned media. Why?

A good example of similar treatment would be corporate America. Its the alpha male who in almost every case, survives the fallout. Its the minorities who get hit with the balance owed and the damages incurred.

[TacticalPeek]

29. "The first two guards"

One, maybe two MP's watching 500 prisoners? Prisoners have razors and soft-ball-size rocks?

Forty or fifty MP's guarding 7000 prisoners? Putting down a riot?

Prisoners eat fresh food and MP's MRE's?

If true, seems to fit the general FUBAR Rumsfeld foisted on history.

And that description of "leadership" types around at the start of the riots, then nowhere to be seen? That rings true, fer sure.

[VolcanoJen]

27. Lynndie admits far worse things happened at Abu Ghraib

Interviewer: Did other things happen in Abu Ghraib, that we have not seen in photographs, that people would be interested in?

Lynndie: Yes.

Interviewer: In fact, were there a lot worse things happening than what we've seen in those photographs?

Lynndie (looks at her attorney before answering): Yes.

Interviewer: Can you elaborate on that?

Lynndie: No.

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