To those who think the Berg video helps Bush...

[Dookus]

here are today's top headlines from various news websites:

Drudge: New prison pics "worse"
CNN: Congress seeing more abuse images today
BBC: New abuse photos are 'even worse'
MSNBC: Appalling:congress members shaken after viewing new abuse photos
ABC: Worse yet
Yahoo: Lawmakers: new abuse photos disturbing


I really don't understand how people can think the videotaped slaughter of an American civilian in direct response to the torture scandal somehow helps Bush.

[progressiveBadger]

1. Maybe in the short term

Because it pisses off the general populace and focuses them on revenge instead of shame because of the torture.
But come November when we are all going to the polls thinking about the last four years in utter disgust, I think it's only going to hurt him.

[yardwork]

29. Hey nosferatu, welcome to DU!

[progressiveBadger]

32. Thanks!

[Beetwasher]

2. It Only "Helps" in Deflecting Somewhat From the Torture Scandal

and in enraging his hard core frothing base.

Otherwise, everyone else is sickened by it an only reminded of the fact that Bush got us into this cluster fuck to begin with. And now that his approval ratings are reaching critical, it can only make matters worse.

[girl gone mad]

4. Yep.

It gives the RW new fodder for their "righteous anger" campaign, but it also reminds the country of just how bad things have gotten in Iraq.

[w13rd0]

8. But lately...

...BushCo has focused solely on "getting out their base". They've been wildly pandering to the RW nuts.

Mamon demands sacrifice.

[hippiegranny]

3. possibly they "hoped" it would deflect

but like so many of the straws they've been grabbing at, it came up way short.

[Dookus]

5. my point is

there's not stupid enough to even consider the idea that such a thing would help them.

[No2W2004]

15. No, what they REALLY think is that

WE are that stupid. They think that showing a 'Murikan getting his head chopped off will get the masses frothing at the mouth for revenge. They are finding out that WE aren't as stupid as they think.

[Jim Warren]

21. Maybe, maybe not

Perhaps you're right, time might tell but even then what are the chances we'll ever know the truth?

It occurs to me though that a case can be made that the horror of the Berg video 'softens' the upcoming prison torture and abuse pics/story.

[calimary]

33. All I've observed that it's done is simply underscore just what a mess

this whole misbegotten Iraq affair has become. I've heard it back from three disparate places today - where I did NOT expect to hear anything. My family's lawyer (talking about one of his office mates, a cheery fellow who ordinarily comes bouncing in happily every morning at 7:30am, until THIS morning (Wednesday), when he arrived and was standing there, staring out into space. And apparently he kept murmuring "that could be MY son. That could be MY son."

Doctor's appointment today - she volunteered that "bush has certainly made a big mess in Iraq. I don't think things look too good for his reelection." Also, an accountant friend said almost the same exact said - "bush has made a mess in Iraq." And "bush certainly hasn't done a very good job."

Three - no, FOUR people, counting our lawyer's colleague, who won't be on the bush bandwagon this fall. And I know our lawyer voted for him in 2000 (calls himself an independent who leans republican).

I think the self-anointed King of Perception has misjudged this one, too. The clear OVERALL impression all this has contributed toward - is one that just underscores what a horrendous screw-up the whole Iraq misadventure has become.

[Djinn]

34. but they were stupid enough

to beleive they'd be welcomed with flowers by the Iraqi's? That it would be a short engagement, that Ahmed Chalabbi would be popular with Iraq's population etc etc

I havn't really formed an opinion on the Berg murder (apart from that it was horrible natch) but the powers that be have proved themselves to be pretty stupid and/or naive many times

[billybob537]

6. No help for SHRUBBY

This is all a result of BUSH*LIES. this is just another in a life-long series of failures. He never fails to fail.
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[Pithlet]

7. It's not going to help, especially in the long term.

Bush already has the base "NUKE EM ALL!" crowd anyway.

[Beetwasher]

11. "The Nuke 'Em All" Crowd

are the only one's that this will "help" Bush with. It gives them something to change the subject to when the torture allegations come up.

Everyone elses is sickened with the whole Iraq cluster fuck and it's Bush's war and his burden.

[bahrbearian]

19. I hear that every day at work "Nuke Them All"

When I engage them in debate they shut right up, They don't want to hear the Truth.

[Walt Starr]

9. Do you think there may be copies out there in cyberland somewhere

with the person holding them just waiting to see if the ones in Pentagon custody are relased or not?

I figure we'll see the pictures one way or other, and it'll be even worse if the U.S. government doesn't release them yet they end up on the internet anyway.

[Dookus]

13. I know they'll come out

There isn't EVER only one copy of digital media. CBS evidently already has a bunch of them, as does the Washington Post.

What we're seeing now is a lot of posturing to "soften us up" for their eventual release.

[WilliamPitt]

10. Been watching the TV?

Most people, sadly, don't read. They watch the tube, and the tube has been flogging the beheading story.

Oh, and there was the banner headline on today's Boston Herald: PRISONER ABUSE, IRAQI STYLE, with the photo of Berg about to get killed.

I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm just waiting to see if you're right.

[Dookus]

16. Imagine, for a minute...

that you're on the other side. You're in a high-level meeting with Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld et. al.

The topic is how to draw attention away from the prisoner abuse scandal. Do you REALLY think the option they'd choose is to murder an American civilian and have the murderers state it's in response to the prison abuse? I can think of a few thousand better alternatives.

[TNOE]

26. Unfortunately - yes I can

How low America has sunk. Remembering they were behind 9/11 - they had no problem killing 3,000 - what's one more?

[kentuck]

12. In the sense that it replaced the prison abuse story.....

it did help him. It did take a lot of the wind out of that story...at least temporarily. The Berg story gives them license to do more evil deeds, because the people's tolerance level has been increased dramatically.

[Dookus]

14. umm...

my point is that it did NOT replace the prison abuse story. In fact, it adds more focus to it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. The one possible way it does help is to create more hatred of Arabs

If there were ANY motive to it being done by the Bushies it would be to paint all arabs as so inhumane that they deserve to be nuked. I'm not saying that is so..but they have been dying to use nukes.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. Have you missed the "nuke 'em all" bandwagon?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1587364

And I've seen a rash of similar sentiment on boards that have not been particularly freeperish.

It's about the zeitgeist.

[Dookus]

20. I believe it will take more than the murder

of one person to convince the majority of Americans to use nukes in the Middle East. The few loudmouths who advocate it today were advocating it last week, too.

[Mountainman]

22. All the wing nut talk shows are in lock step calling for more war

How is it that you can hear the same theme from Laura Ingrahm in the morning till Michael Reagan at night? They all are trying to help Bush and if they are using the Berg killing to attack the left then it helps Bush.

[Walt Starr]

23. Echo Chambers playing to the base

They are shoring up the base over Torturegate. They don't want to lose the base over the fuckup of being caught being as evil as Hussein.

[GWBrips]

24. Yes, this killing helps Bush!

The terrorist's have made a huge timing error. Everyone knows you can't beat the U.S. The U.S. beats itself, and we were well on the way to this state with the prisoner abuse pictures. This murder only strengthens the resolve of the American people whom are in favor of this war!

[Old and In the Way]

30. Certainly makes one wonder why Iraqis would be willing to

help Dimson by galvanizing his base with this video. Seems that is rather counter-intuitive. "Boy, the Bush administration is really in trouble with the prison tortue pics. Hey, let's take the heat off George and putting it back on us by staging a sadistic beheading!"

But, then again, there seems to be an interesting correlation between this administration's embarassments and sudden AQ videos showing up on the scene to distract the media from the domestic story.

Reminds me of a dysfunctional, mutually co-enabling couple....

[beyurslf]

25. I dont see how it could help.

Makes me sick to think about and makes even angerier at the thought of our men and women there for no purpose.

[LoZoccolo]

27. Because people redouble their anger.

It's not rational, but people think al Quada and Iraq have something to do with each other, or maybe they just think the people involved are cut from the same cloth or whatever, so you'd expect them to reinforce warlike sentiments and get behind whoever's responsible for the war. You and I know that makes no sense, but I guess I'm so cynical after all this that I expect that of people.

[MGKrebs]

28. I'm with you Dookus.

I'm not saying everything is at it appears, but I just don't see how any sane person would concoct this plan and hope to achieve any positive result.

The strangest thing to me about this story is that Berg was Jewish. He enters a combat zone in which radical militant Muslims are widespread and pissed off? Being Jewish isn't immediately obvious of course, but still...

So after he is released by Iraqi police (many of whose allegience cannot be known), and during which detention his true identity is presumably ascertained, he gets picked up by militant Muslims. I would check the cel phone records of those Iraqi policemen in Mosul.

[robbedvoter]

31. NYC papers headlines: BARBARIANS! (NY POST) SAVAGES! Daily News

and a few other I can't remember exactly.

[FreakinDJ]

35. J_U_S_T_I_F_I_C_A_T_I_O_N For T_O_R_T_U_R_E

Believe me the Freepers are pointing to all of this as why the US needs to use such tactics.

[SOteric]

36. For the most part, I agree, Dookus. But I'll add that I'm reserving

space in my observations for intellectual doubt.

It's not impossible or even entirely improbable that this horrific thing might help Bush. Not only in reference to what NSMA has said about it inciting anti-Arab sentiment; too, it could aid in generating that overwhelming, sickening fear that some middle Americans have suffered since 9-11.

One of the primary steps in the actual process of brainwashing is to leave the subject in a state of heightened fear for their life and personal safety for an extended period. Then present them with a 'saviour,' an individual who solely holds the answer to the subjects safety.

It's not out of the realm of possibility. So, I hold open some intellectual doubt. I'm not interested in fear-mongering though. That just contributes to their cause.