I hate being called dumb for saying the troops need to be brought home!!!

[rocktop15]

EVERYONE I talk to thinks that this is, somehow, the worst idea they have ever heard in their life. I proudly say that the best way to support the troops is to bring them home!!! UN in.......US out.

[aquart]

1. One problem: UN has no interest in going in.

They're peacekeepers. When we leave, the civil war starts. I say, leave anyway. We can't win. This garbage of rebuilding infrastructure is just that, garbage. They will explode everything we build. They will take nothing from us.

We have to leave. We've done our damage. We've destabilized the MidEast. It won't get better until they do their killing and settle it between themselves.

They are about to go thru Hell and it is all our fault. ALL OF IT.

[IHaveADream]

4. it's time to leave.

This war was never thought through. They went in expecting a bed of roses and what they got was a bed of thorns. Rumsfeld and bush f*cked up big time. There is no excuse but there can be diffusion.

Everybody in the entire world hates us now. It is time we healed our country and healed our world. We must elect John Kerry.

[JayS]

2. Remember the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan though. n/t

n/t

[rumguy]

3. The point is to get them out in a way that doesn't clusterfuck things

even worse than they are now.

If you just mindlessly say - get the troops out - and nothing else, most people will not listen.

Communication requires more than slogans.

[turiya]

5. how about this

No matter how long we stay or how many "terrorists" die, Iraq will never be a just or legal cause.

[rumguy]

6. the argument still needs more specificity

[IHaveADream]

7. That's true . . .

you can't destroy an ideology with bombs and bullets.

[calimary]

8. Fuck it! I don't think you're dumb. Not at all.

It's about the only option we have left if we don't want to see a LOT more of our troops come home in transfer tubes.

The longer they're there, the worse it's gonna get - ON THEM.

Bring it on, indeed.

As to the argument, how 'bout - as long as WE (read: the U.S., Americans - either military OR civilian) remain there, we will be a lightening rod for everything that could possibly go wrong. Our very presence is sufficient aggravation. If you keep picking at the scab, it's gonna keep getting bigger and more infected. It will NOT heal. The only way to stop the raging infection and promote the beginning of healing is to remove the main irritant. You got a big, dirty splinter in your foot? What should you do? Leave it in? Jam it deeper? Wiggle it around. Stick in a few MORE? Or remove it so the infection can be stopped.

[incapsulated]

9. I proudly say..

I have no idea how to get out of this mess, right now, with this administration, without a total meltdown in the ME.

We stay, and try to suppress a popular uprising. We leave, and there is chaos and civil war that may well spread to other countries.

Bushco refuses to allow anyone to have any influence or control over the situation except the good old U.S., so we are fucked and alone.

Even if Kerry and a team of the best diplomats, strategists and military people took over tomorrow, they would still need to pull off a miracle to straighten this out, now.

[Doctor Smith]

10. The U.S. military is stretched almost to the breaking point,

I don't think any other countries have enough capability to contitute a U.N. force if the U.S. pulls out.

[izzie]

11. Is the reasoning we are keeping them from fighting each other?

It is time we stopped killing people to bring them freedom, which we are not going to let them have any how. God did not give Bush this power to blow up the world and we should come home and stop letting old men send young men to be killed as they get rich.

[Piperay]

12. Getting out is not going to be easy

and is going to require someone with more intelligence than chimp and a good plan.

[Mountainman]

13. Here is my plan.

We call for a general cease fire. We pull our troops back to the green zones. We let the Iraqis form their own local governments. We diplomatically work with these local governments to develop the oil resources and to stabilize the country. The Iraqis sell the oil on the open market using the revenues to rebuild their country. The local governments form a central government. We recognize the central government and apologize for the damage to the country and give all the aide we can to help rebuild it. We let all nations bid on the contracts.

While this is going on, because of the stability in the country we gradually reduce our troop numbers replacing them with UN troops.

I haven't thought this all out yet but basically what we have to do is get rid of the PNAC idea and replace it with international diplomacy to bring peace and stability to the Mid East. We need to dramatically change the perception of the US in that part of the world and rebuild the support we had after 9/11.

All this requires a regime change in this country. I fear that if Bush Co has another 4 years we will see a much worse situation in the world. I saw Pearl on C-SPAN and even though the war has gone badly he still says the same things he said a few years ago. This administration has no plan other than to stay the course that is leading to disaster.