Why so many of you NEED the Berg video to be a conspiracy?

[Blue_Chill]

I've noticed that when confronted with anything that doesn't make the US look bad people here go way out of their way to deny or redirect it. The video is disgusting and people here downplaying it are no better then repugs trying to downplay prisoner abuse by pointing at this video. So I ask you, are your beliefs so fragile, so black and white, that you can't tolerate anything that doesn't fit into your severely limited views?

What I've seen here today is disgusting and those of you, and you know who you are, have shamed the left. People on this board that are the least bit decent and good must be outraged, but sadly this board is over run with rude extremists that will attempt to railroad you out if you dare to speak up.

So go on discrediting yourselves, that is what you are doing with knee jerk reactions to this video. Making massive leaps in logic to force all realities to fit in with your deranged view; world good - US bad, it's pathetic.

Today we can truly see that the old ways of the "bleeding heart" liberal are gone. Caring for people has been replaced with this farce of caring when convenient. People who care are obvious for all to see, they have a heart and aren't afraid to show it. Here the loudest voices spew dishonest claims of caring when anyone with the guts to admit it can see this "caring" is simply opportunistic posturing built purely upon reactionary politics.

Rest in peace flower children, you've all died and been replaced with walking corpses who care only of politics and have no room for emotions or ancient concepts of right and wrong.

Hopefully those of you I know are still in possession of your hearts, those of you that actually care about others have the courage to stand up against this nonsense.

[Sandpiper]

1. Thanks for the sanctimonious tripe

Pardon me while I scratch my balls.

[Cocoa]

5. lol

perfect response to this pompous lecture. Let's hope no one takes this bloviating seriously.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. I'm shocked...

that the tin foil types are unwilling ( or unable) to think rationally.

[Sterling]

19. I am shocked

There are still people here with their heads in their ass after years of seeing what start out as theories here turn into fact months later.

Some people have a need to live in a safe reality they create for themselves. Anything that could upset that reality is met with the kind of hostility in your post.

[Sandpiper]

30. I'm shocked

That the pro establishment crowd is unwilling (or unable) to think that anything other than the official explanation could possibly be true.

Some people just can't handle cognitive dissonance.

[Tinoire]

67. Sterling! Good to see you! You who helped break the 9-11 story

I'm simply amused to watch the same people always apologizing for everything.

Glad to see you again!

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. Tell us about your balls

I need some relief from the scapegoating for a while.

:)

[TheWizardOfMudd]

71. Sanctimonious tripe?

No wonder I have no idea what that poster was talking about. Heh.

[Wonk]

2. Conspiracy

An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conspiracy

[rumguy]

3. there was very little of that - and even those questions were based

upon actual facts...

like Berg's being detained for so long by military officials...and then seemingly released into danger...

[Tinoire]

68. Facts matter not to certain people

It gets in the way of their a) illusions or b) mission.

[MuseRider]

4. I was a flower child

and I am a bleeding heart (and very proud of it) and the way I see it is that when our own party tells us to shut up and not question what the man says then there is not a chance in hell we will ever "rest in peace." But of course that is just my opinion.

[Webster Green]

20. Yeah, I'm still a flower child too, .....till the day I die.

Un-apologetic bleeding heart, long-haired, bearded, commie, pacifist, hippie, tree hugging radical.

I actually still wear flowers in my hair sometimes just to fuck with people's heads.

So.....eat my shorts!

[MuseRider]

35. You still

wear them? LOL, thanks. Glad to know ya.

[name not needed]

6. You know why?

Its cause of the fatassed "Al Qaeda" in the tapes, the one wearing tennis shoes, the American prison garb, the yellow walls that look ominously like Abu Gharaib. The timing is just a coincidence I guess. I for one am not going to believe what the mainstream media has told me. I refuse to believe that Al Qaeda releases tapes whenever Bush* needs a jump in his approval rating. I'm sick of the bullshit from these people.

[Spoon]

24. Tennis shoes?

My god, you are aware that Iraqi's do own tennis shoes, right? Jeesh.

[Pithlet]

77. They're fat, white and wearing tennis shoes.

Why, they must be American! Cause, you know, everyone over there is scrawny, brown and barefoot. </sarcasm>

[QC]

91. LOL!

The thing is, though, that you're not far off from what people have been saying all evening.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. Thank you

For saying this. I have been reading DU with disgust all day. So many of us are nothing more then hypocrites and by saying some of the things that we say, feed into the self-fulfilling prophesy of the RW

[Blue_Chill]

25. Nice to see I'm not alone

Thanks for your post.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. We Say?

have a mouse in your pocket?

[Tinoire]

69. "WE"? Thank you! That was my second laugh of the day!

Thanks!

[Union Thug]

9. I don't disagree with you, but..

1. The US invaded their country and slaughtered countless babies, women, children, and men in the process.

2. The US has been engaged in the systematic abuse of Iraqi and other detainees in their charge (gitmo for example)

It doesn't surprise me. I knew we'd see this shit sooner or later. If I were an Iraqi and my child was murdered by the US forces, I'd be looking for a little sweet revenge myself. I certainly don't need to spin this one way or another, it is horrible. But what naive moron didn't expect this to happen?

It's an ugly situation put into play by the snakes and vermin in the American Fascist, err Corporate, err, republican party.

[LittleApple81]

10. I think we have seen so much corruption, lies, destruction of lives and

reputations we tend to expect the worst from the administration. And so many times they have proven us right to expect the worst and more.

The timing of the beheading, the person who was beheaded, the image of those covered faces, make people wonder if the administration didn't stage this. I hope the people who suspect this are wrong... but by the same token I cannot blame them.

[Walt Starr]

11. So, present the evidence that the murderers were, without any doubt

Al Queda. Time to put up or shut up.

Until you do, it is equally plausible this man was murdered by CIA operatives.

There are many "conspiracy theories" surrounding this murder. The most widespread "conspiracy theory" is that Berg's murderers were Al-Queda.

[scarletwoman]

90. "CIA operatives" vs. "Al-Qaeda"

To be perfectly honest, I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.

sw

[ScreamingMeemie]

12. I don't "need" it to be. I question the authenticity of this story for the

main reason is that a father is angry with the U.S. government after his dealings with them. That says a whole lot more than "conspiracy theory" to me.

[DoBotherMe]

13. When the contractors

were beaten and burned I didn't see anyone denying that the insurgents did it ... it looked like a hate crime. This looks like a fucking hit!

[alittlelark]

60. A 'hate crime'?

How about hating the fact that your country has been invaded by looters who are torturing and killing your countrymen?

Maybe the 'fucking hit' is just what it seems.

Maybe it is calculated 'damage control' by those in positions of power who are clinging to straws - or 'straw-men'.

This Reeks

[Az]

14. Question

Are you supposing that those who question the veracity of the story are somehow unconcerned about the fate Berg faced? There are any number of ways that this situation could have been manipulated. I believe that the horror of this matter is so great that we must.... MUST look at it and determine exactly what happened and then make sure it never happens again. To just throw up our hands and accept what we are being fed on this is a disservice to the memory of Berg and his family.

[RapidCreek]

58. Ya know

If indeed Berg was there profiteering...I don't feel to bad for him. He took a gamble and he lost. I do however feel VERY sad for his family. In my present state of affairs I could really use a high paying job of the sort I could get in Iraq....and I have the skills required to get one. I'd sooner rob liqueur stores, however.

RC

[Blue_Chill]

59. Answer

Like I stated it's obvious who cares and who doesn't. One can throw out ideas without being disgusting about it or trying to justify the murder or down play this mans fate.

[bigbillhaywood]

15. I don't believe it's a conspiracy, but your gov't and the media lies to

you long enough, you're bound to distrust anything you see after awhile-- it's only natural. Although I disagree with the conspiracy theorists, I disagree even more strongly with your assessment that they "bring shame on the left"-- their reaction is completely understandable. And it's always good to ask questions. I think a conspiracy is improbable, but I would never dismiss it out of hand.

[bhunt70]

16. I dont.

I also don't need to demonize Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch or Mr. Hamill. I don't need to think Israel did it all or that a missile shot out of a plane hitting the world trade center. Nor do I need to think that Laura Bush purposefully killed her fiance (did she get the Bush Cabal invite the night before?), or that Bush had murdered a woman he raped. Finally, I dont need to make every issue us against them.

I do put a lot of stock in many things here though, BBV, general incompetance in the WH, PNAC, the fact that Zell Miller should be part of the republican party, and many of the social issues discussed.

[Sterling]

22. PNAC was a conspiracy theory.

In fact the person who dug it up was ran off from this site by people who posted things like you just did.

[Tinoire]

72. Speaking it like it IS! They will NOT shut us all up

because our numbers have been growing everyday!

We ARE taking back our party AND taking back our country! The shills and apologists better get the fuck out of the way.

:loveya:

[bhunt70]

81. I'm not sure many people here are trying to shut you up...

but they are allowed to assimilate the evidence in ways other than you presented and have the luxury of not being ostracized.

[Tinoire]

82. Look Bhunt

When I first came to this site it was 95% progressive. Then the Right Wing caught a whiff of it and tried to kill it. Then the DLC Moderates caught a whiff of it and came to 'subdue' it. It is now as infiltrated by the Right as is the DLC.

Why? Why come to this site if you do not agree with what is being said here? (you being generic).

Simply not out to be subdued.

[bhunt70]

93. I think you miss my meaning

I don't have to come hear to agree with every post, neither do you. As long as you can post something you believe to be true or informative etc. and I respect that even though I might not agree with it then I see no problem. I just think I should have the same courtesy.

I admire your tenacity to research some of this, but I don't have to buy into it and if I can respect you promoting your ideas respectfully then I don't see where there is a problem.

I'm a skeptic, I'm not trying to make you stop posting what you want, but I am allowed to disagree and not be pigeonholed into a "freeper-apologist-fox watching heathen".

Thats all I'm asking. If I've wronged you or someone else by disagreeing, I'm sorry. Im not trying to make this Moderate Underground or Freeperville 2, I actually consider myself pretty liberal if I have to consider myself anything, but that doesnt mean I have to buy into everything I read hear.

respectfully

ben

[Tinoire]

94. You haven't wronged me

I'm just a little "shell-shocked" by all the freepers & dormant cells posting here tonight.

I agree with you on variety of thought but I'm getting very tired of the recent intolerance for that, especially under this regime.

Sorry if I wronged you.

Peace

[bhunt70]

79. funny, but if you read my post you would notice I said

that I believed the pnac info...always have. It's very easy to put that information together and see what its about. You can look the actual organization up in a great many places.

and people who "posted things like I just did" are not me. So I'd appreciate you not lumping me in with people who "posted things like I just did". I just happen to be very sceptical of a great many things and just because I don't happen to see the supporting evidence at this moment that a fat white man from the cia wearing tennis shoes killed nick berg, doesn't make me close minded so get the fuck off your high horse.

[Tinoire]

83. In other words, you stick to the safely proven stuff

None of that was 'safely proven' 3 years ago. We had to do a lot of hard work to get it out there. The same hard work some of us are doing today and will continue to do despite the "voices of reason" that keep popping up here to discourage us. And you must admit those voices come in conveniently-timed waves...

[bhunt70]

98. I'm not gonna believe something just because someone told me so...

I come to my own conclusions sooner or later. Sure I discuss things with people, read up on things, looking at how my own experiences, mindset and biases and how they may affect how I see things at first glance etc.

So safely proven? No not at all. But the reasons I believe something is rarely going to be because someone told me its true.

I havent been discouraging you, in fact in another post I applauded you. I'm all for it. By the same token, you should understand that people aren't always going to just believe you because you said/found it. You shouldnt take offense to it.

[Tinoire]

101. Good. So sorry

I agree with your approach and your take on things.

And I understand/appreciate your last sentence. I really don't take offense to criticism & recognize that I am as capable of making a mistake as the next guy; I just really get tired of watching people infiltrate this site to shut us up. It's been the same routine for 3 years- they come and they go but rip our nerves raw as they do so.

These are such scary times with no guarantees.

Sincerely Bhunt70. Thanks

And now, off to bed... Off to laying me down to sleep for the night.

Peace

[FDRrocks]

17. Because of stuff like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1577936

Because questions need to be asked.

[bloom]

18. fWhy is it that the more conservative posters NEED to think

the beheading is NOT a conspiracy?

[bhunt70]

29. more conservative?

[Spoon]

21. Thanks for posting this.

"world good - US bad, it's pathetic."

It is as though some here are set on autopilot. Limited view surely exists on both side of the political spectrum. It's very sad.

For the conspiracy nuts: the boy who cried wolf wasn't very credible.

[Az]

23. It doesn't need to be the US that did it

It could have been Chalibi. It could in fact be Alqaeda. If you do not investigate you only find out what you are told.

[Spoon]

27. Good point.

[Blue_Chill]

31. Thank you for your post

I'm tired of everything being corrupted, time for people to start standing up to extremists.

[bpilgrim]

40. lets start with the ones in the WH

peace

[Sterling]

41. We must put a stop to questions and free thought!

Maybe there are some books in your area that need to be burned?

[thebigidea]

89. Allow me to walk around your video collection with a big magnet, too

speaking of videos, give a ring - we gotta swap...

[Lars39]

26. I want the truth about events, not whatever this corrupt administration

or shytty media decides to tell us. I want truth so that there may be justice for the victims, Iraqi and American, or whatever the hell other country we've f@cked over in the pursuit of greed and power. If that means that avenues are explored that normally wouldn't see the light of day, fine. Either help or move out of the way.

[Spoon]

33. The media didn't tell us anything.

The video speaks for itself.

[Lars39]

43. He was murdered yes, but the rest has not been determined.

[Sterling]

47. What does the video say?

Does it show who the people are who did it? Tell us how you investigated the case and now have it solved. Should we be expecting an arrest soon?

[Roark]

28. Thank you

I came over here today for the first time in a while hoping for an island of sanity after hearing the horrible news.

Instead what I saw disgusted me, both on the video and in the words of those who were desperate to deny the reality. I saw one post in which someone referred to the murderers as "compassionate" men driven to insanity. Sickening, to the core.

I'm sorry, but I won't drink the cool-aid. I can only hope, for the good of this country, that there are still those on the left who remember their values. I sure haven't seen them here today.

[Blue_Chill]

39. Good to see people still stand for more then politics

Values used to be the bread and butter of the left in the United States. Not the morbid psuedo-morality of the right but real values, like compassion and equality.

Thanks for your post.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. you know what you find really annoying about the left?

What you really hate is how often the speculation and conspiracy turns out to be true. We were right about the war being based on lies. We were right about BBV.
Face it, people are going to speculate and question. Nothing ever gets done by people who don't question.

[Blue_Chill]

53. Hello Cheswick.

I'm not attacking people for questioning anything, it may seem that way, but I assure you that was not my intent. However there are such things as values, and there are ways to question things without becoming a some twisted caricature of what this side of the political spectrum once stood for.

I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear on this.

[Sterling]

56. Having your head up your ass is not a value.

Im not sure what you think a liberal is but it is not code for someone who will fall for anything. If you trust the government to tell you the truth you are in serious denial. If that is what you are looking for you probably wont like DU. We examine everything and consider every possibilty. The truth is flushed out through vetting sources and discussing. Not crying like a baby that people are talking about ideas that upset you.

If you stick around you will be better informed for it. Just don't exect DU to change so you are comfortable.

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. I didn't see anyone forcing a glass of Kool aid into your hand.

:shrug:

[Zero Gravitas]

32. All major news events are staged by Bush

period. Apparently everything you hear on the news is just the "official version" designed to direct blame away from Bush. This is obviously true because everything that happens can somehow be twisted to be beneficial for Bush and since Bush is an evil bastard capable of ANYTHING, its OBVIOUS that he Made It Happen On Purpose.

[Tansy_Gold]

88. Including, of course, Henry Waxman's denunciations,

Sheila Jackson Lee's, Dennis Kucinich's, Barney Frank's, Patrick Leahy's, Ted Kennedy's, Al Franken's, Randi Rhodes's. Yep, the bushies control everything.

And of course, they completely control the CIA, the same CIA that DUers are always saying is out to get the bushies for their outing of Valerie Plame.

:::sigh::::

[quinnox]

36. Some good points

I think you hit the nail on the head with the world view cognitive dissonance.

[Misinformed01]

37. Oh kiss my ass. As long as it's not abortion

you are Liberal.

What the hell ever.

If you don't want to read the "conspiracy theories" then put the damned threads on ignore.

Stephanie

[Walt Starr]

45. Thank you

Very reasonable response.

I'm still waiting on the evidence to prove Blue_Chill's specific conspiracy theory about Berg's murder.

[Tinoire]

76. That about sums it up. Thanks! n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v2.0
==================
 
The time now is 10:12:01PM EDT, Tuesday, May 11, 2004.
 
There are exactly...
5 days,
1 hours,
47 minutes, and
59 seconds left in our fund drive.
 
This website could not survive without your generosity. Member donations 
pay for more than 84% of the Democratic Underground budget. Don't let
GrovelBot become the next victim of the Bush economy. Bzzzt.
 
Please take a moment to donate to DU right now. Thank you for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[rumguy]

46. you picked a bad day to grovel grovel bot

[incapsulated]

57. I think Grovelbot knows the truth

But he's not telling unless we donate.

[rocktivity]

42. Berg's story JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE

He goes traipsing off Iraq to look for work that Halliburton And Associates was already doing, gets picked up by Iraq police, turned over the US and questioned for two weeks, gets released only when his parents filef a lawsuit, and then gets picked up al Al Qaeda? Even if it DID make sense, I hope that if we've learned anything by now is not to take ANYTHING the Bush regime says at face value. It's turning out that the recent surge in job creation is a figment of the Department of Labor's imagination. And I even wondered why Don Rumsfeld said "The worst is yet to come" at the hearings. And I was right to: he knew this story was coming out, and expected that the resulting right-eous rage would vindicate him!

:headbang:
rocknation

[KG]

48. snorf!!!

funniest thread starter i've seen this week... :D

[bobthedrummer]

50. Because of the fact that military intelligence and mercenaries

took over Abu Ghraib and "influenced" MP guards to commit crimes, which are now known to the world.

But there is an important influence to add when it comes to the culture within the Defense Intelligence Agency and US Army intelligence-Col. Michael Aquino.

Col. Aquino was a Church of Satan priest that replaced the Church of Satan with his own cult/religion the Temple of Set in 1975 while on active duty. His influence is evident on what has been released so far imo and life experiences.

For the average reader here is a primer on the historic culture of the Defense Intelligence Agency and US Army MI-Col. Michael Aquino and his Temple of Set

Temple of Set Statement to the US Armed Forces (see Temple of Set)
http://www.nightspell.dhs.org/

Temple of Set history
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/satanism/tempset.html

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id163/pg1/

Apologetics for Nazi/fascist ideology charges within the Temple of Set
http://www.necronomi.com/magic/satanism/fascist.set.txt

PSYOPS: The "Temple of Set" and mob psychology
http://www.answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=205198

Now you have a bit of the flavor of the culture of US military intelligence in a national security community culture that includes Nazis, organized crime and mercenaries you can add satanists and setians.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[Tinoire]

80. Book-marked. This stuff has been out for a while but the

lol, "Fundamentalists" won't even give it a second look.

You would think that people who want to stomp "evil" & "Satan" would fucking dig in the right places.

Robert Anton Wilson?

:thumbsup:

[bobthedrummer]

86. Isn't that something fundies and satanists in the same sinking boat!

use this stuff about DIA's Col. Aquino freely-it's absolutely true.
:hi:

[bhunt70]

51. I'm sceptical, but Im sceptical about what I've been told and

what is posted here. I'm not gonna jump on each new theory without evidence. I don't know who/what/why any of this happened.

everyone can connect the dots but everyones picture isn't going to be the same.

[Sterling]

61. So use your brain and sort the BS from the real deal.

That is why DU is cool. Because people here do this kind of thing I usually know about stories days and weeks before the break.

[incapsulated]

52. Yes, well...

I've come to expect this, now. Especially in the GD forum. I don't pay much attention, not after the reading "there were no planes the buildings were wired to blow by Bush" type of conspiracies after 9/11 here and elsewhere.

Also, every once and a while, there really is a conspiracy. And who is going to find it if not the conspiracy nuts? I know I'm not doing that kind of research. :)

As for the far, very far, pseudo-left that feel the need to make anyone who hates the U.S. into a sympathetic figure, I started ignoring them 15 years ago. I have enough to annoy me, as it is.

[Blue_Chill]

55. Well said n/t

...

[Sterling]

66. Yes it was well said and contrary to your very being.

You attempt to shout down any kind of speculation. You are very insulting and obtuse in the process. Don't try to pretend like you actually encourage the work the "nuts" do here.

[incapsulated]

73. Certain topics explode in the GD

The entire forum, for a while, will be flooded with one thing or another. Right now, it's this. Before, it was the torture scandal. Whatever it is, eventually one of of the topics de jour is going to offend you.

I learned my lesson about conspiracy theories arguing with someone about Paul Wellstone's death. They were convinced he was assasinated in a rethug conspiracy, I was definitely not. I challenged him to give me some evidence that there was the adequate motivation to do such a thing, let alone carry it out.

Well, he did a pretty damn good job and I had to shut up. I'm not saying that Wellstone was murdered, but I'm not saying there isn't the possibility anymore, either.

(Or Marilyn, which I never believed until I learned some facts, too.)

[jayavarman]

54. Word

eom

[Tinoire]

84. Yeah right "word"

<sarcasm> Welcome to DU </sarcasm>

Moths to the flame.

[Walt Starr]

62. FACT: The Berg murder WAS A CONSPIRACY

That is one thing that is an absolutely factual statement. It is an undeniable truth that this murder was a conspiracy.

Five men participated in the murder of Nick Berg. We have video evidence to confirm this fact.

That, by definition, constitutes a conspiracy. What remains in doubt is the identities of the conspirators, whether or not there were additional members of the conspiracy, and the veracity of the claims made by the conspirators on camera.

[Blue_Chill]

63. You are correct.

Well done.

[DaveSZ]

64. I agree with Blue chill to some extent, however...

Today the corporate media reported that the Bush Administration was tightening regulations on diesel fuel.

Remember, these are the same folks who gave us the "clear skies initiative," and "healthy forests initiative." I'll bet you anything that this is in reality a ploy by the Administration to actually deregulate diesel fuel standards for the sake of Bush/Cheney campaign contributors while covering their tracks at the same time.

That's not in any way being cynical on my part, that's simply what we have come to expect from this Administration!

Regardless, the corporate media simply parrots what the Administration says without fact checking - exactly like they did with regards to Iraq.

[Walt Starr]

65. Thank you

It's simple, really.

Until there is additional evidence, all we have are theories about the unkowns.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. Sorry, Blue_Chill, but I've been fed the following lies in my lifetime:

(and these are just the ones that I remember off the top of my head)

1. that North Vietnamese warships fired on U.S. vessels in the Gulf of Tonkin, which justified the bombing of North Vietnam

2. that the Shah of Iran was a friend of democracy

3. that the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan for no reason at all except that Communists are nasty

4. that the Iraqis killed 200 premature babies in Kuwait by taking away their incubators

5. that Cuba is a danger to the U.S.

6. that the U.S. invaded Grenada to rescue the medical students

7. that the Nicaraguan contras were freedom fighters (ditto the predecessors of the Taliban)

8. that the Soviets shot down Korean Airlines 007 for no reason at all except that Communists are nasty

9. that Nicaragua persecuted Jews (this was one of Otto Reich's bits of disinformation)

10. that the School of the Americas just trains Latin American officials in proper police procedures

11. (lumping together a whole bunch of lies about elections in El Salvador and Nicaragua in the 1980s)

12. that the Warren Commission Report on the Kennedy assassination is 100% accurate

13. that the U.S. was always against the Taliban

14. that Bush won the White House fair and square

I could go on, but you get the idea. The beheading may have occurred just as the official story describes, but the events of my lifetime have taught me never to accept the official story at face value.

[doni_georgia]

74. Doni's Husband: If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well...

I don't have any clue who actually did do this. Maybe it WAS al Qaeda, but for a lot of reasons, I have my doubts. The post below (see link) adds up some of the reasons. It doesn't even address all of the issues that support the case that we aren't seeing something.

I have a lot of trouble with the "bad apples" theory on prison abuse. The violent response we saw has been widespread and has intensified as time has passed. A lot of people seem to have been fed bad apples. On the other hand, just a few photos started a huge dam leak of latent anger in this country, too. So I dunno.

However, I have to say that the story is just too seamless for me to take it at face value. This administrration seems to disseminate information in a calculated manner in every instance, from outing a CIA operative to orchestrating a press conference letter and verse. Something as straightforward as this HAS to be suspect just because of the way that it's tied up in such a neat package with "al Qaeda" on the bow.

Again - I am not pointing at anyone. I don't know. And that's why I have to theorize, because to my mind, this just doesn't add up. It feels like a setup. It is my dear hope that this is simply the work a bunch of unattached hoodlums trying to make noise in Baghdad. It is my great dread that the true culprits might be in the service of my own country. Somewhere between the two lies the truth, and THAT'S what I'm concerned with.

Mac in Ga


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1580440&mesg_id=1580828

[Tinoire]

87. Thanks doni_georgia . Good thread n/t

[Mick Knox]

75. Very good post - ty nt

[Blue_Chill]

78. ty nt

:)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. I'm not a tinfoiler and I think it stinks to high fucking heaven

But thanks for the lecture.

By the way, flower children wanted peace. You are a Christian. Why would you mock and antagonize people who want peace?

[Blue_Chill]

95. I'm sorry but I must assume you misread my post.

I did not mock flower children, I am sad to see their values lying dead while the political parasites parade around in their place. Furthermore I made no mention of wether that video stinks or not, only that so many reactionary heartless creatures pretending to be liberals is disturbing to me on this day.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

99. Everyone is upset. The video was upsetting.

Give them the space you would want for yourself today.

[Tinoire]

97. Been wondering that myself since day 1 NSMA. n/t

[Wapsie B]

96. All I'm going to say

is that things aren't always the way they may seem on the surface. I'm not putting on the tinfoil. I'm waiting to see what comes out next. But I don't condemn anyone here who may believe the worst about this. As many of us here know that 9/11 benefitted chimpy beyond belief. LIHOP and maybe MIHOP is not out of the realm of possibility. So it stands to reason there may be more to this than meets the eye. I sincerely hope not. But I'm reserving judgement until more facts come in.

[mzmolly]

100. I haven't made up my mind, but I do agree something stinks...

The timing of this video/slaughter and the RW spin is enough to question.

Paul Wellstone
911
Nick Berg

???

Who the hell knows, I put nothing past the BFEE.

[dpibel]

102. A brief literary quiz

Y'know, I was going to line by line this amazing piece of work. The gross generalizations, the projection, the hypocrisy. But it's not really worth the effort, now is it?

Instead, I decided that a pop quiz is in order:

Y'know that line from MacBeth "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing?" That line surely applies. But do you know the line before it? That one applies even more.

[Blue_Chill]

103. Question

Was your post intended more to insult or pat yourself on the back?

The line before it is "It is a tale told by an idiot." In the future when you try to show how awesome you are try to pick something that you weren't forced to read in highschool. Y'know?

[dpibel]

106. It wasn't intended to stump you

And the intent was surely to insult.

[neebob]

104. But it does make the U.S. look bad

because Nick Berg was in Iraq to be abducted and murdered. That's George W. Bush's doing. Arrogant, irresponsible, lying, stupid, sickening scumbag George W. Bush who should be in prison but is in the White House, endangering the planet and everyone on it. So there you have my first thought, in a nutshell.

Second thought: How horrible. I try to imagine what Nick Berg went through and what his family is going through now, as I do every time someone dies at the behest of George W. Bush. Repeat first thought.

Third thought: What convenient timing. The prison abuse has been going on for a year, and Al Qaeda is only just now getting around to retaliating? Later, I hear Nick Berg's family sued the government because he was illegally detained after being arrested by Iraqi police. What a coincidence.

I don't need for it to be a conspiracy, but lately I always weigh that probability - count the coincidences and add up the benefits to George W. Bush - before I consider the possibility that what is being reported is what actually happened. This is what happens - besides a lot of death and destruction - when an arrogant, irresponsible, lying, stupid, sickening scumbag masquerades as president.

I can't speak for the other walking corpses, but in my case there's plenty of room for emotions and ancient concepts of right and wrong. I just try to apply them to all the deserving parties.

[JCMach1]

105. Berg has been missing since April 9...

Is it too much to ask... what do we know about the website that supposedly released the video...?

I don't doubt that he was killed by 'terrorists'? ... Just the when and how of the video release...

[stickdog]

107. Sorry. Some people just have to use their brains every once in a while.

Wotta ya going to do? :shrug:

[bobbyboucher]

108. Figures.

More cover.

[nomatrix]

109. Did you ever stop to think about the line

of work he is in? As a private contractor? Do you know anything about the procurement, building the towers, leasing the land, getting access in a land where private contractor are getting blown up and shot? The towers have to be contracted with a networks like sprint not just something you hire onto. There is quite a bit of that work in the U.S. and even then, in the cities where people are using cells, you've got to install them on top of buildings. What idiot is going to go knocking on doors to climb up on the roof.....
No way.