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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:00 PM
Original message
Nobody Ever Expects the Spanish Inquisition
Nobody Ever Expects the Spanish Inquisition
by arendt

Four years after a judicial coup d'etat, torture photos show
an America that has sunken to medieval levels of depravity.
Meanwhile the corporate media either refuses to get to the heart
of the matter or actually makes excuses for the bums in the
White House who have ruined America.

The un-reportable truth is that, as a nation, we have become
religiously insane. The correct historical analogy is not Viet
Nam or Nazi Germany, and not even the Crusades (because
the Moslems had better tech than the Christians then.) The
correct historical analogy is Catholic Spain in the full flush
of intolerance, awash in American treasure, with its long-fought
Moorish foe finally kicked out of Europe, and its long hated Jewish
minority kicked out of Iberia

Like the Catholic Hapsburgs, who thought they could conquer
all of Christendom in the name of the Pope and for the private profit
of their royal line, America has decided it is strong enough and
rich enough and righteous enough to conquer the planet in the name
of Pat Robertson for the private profit of the Carlyle Group.

Like the Spanish, who enriched themselves by looting New
World gold and sliver, America has decided to help
itself to Mideast oil, black gold. As the militarily and
technologically superior Spanish enslaved the native
American peoples and extirpated their religion and culture,
America has rushed to privatize, "democratize", and
crony-ize Iraq; and they have sent in fundamentalist
"missionaries" to convert these "heathens". And, now,
we see the dark side of evangelism.

As the Spanish mercilessly used the Inquisition against everyone
they declared heretic, Americans mercilessly torture anyone
we declare to be a "terrorist". Same witchhunt, same sadists,
different name for the victims. Ashrcroft's TIPS and Poindexter's TIA
are just high-tech versions of the denunciations, thought crimes,
and demonization of "otherness" that wracked Europe for
four hundred years.

This, then, is the end of America's reputation for democracy
and tolerance in the world. The Bush Gang has sold
the reputation of two centuries of American democracy
for thirty barrels of oil, and we can never buy it back.

Just like the Spanish, America has become indebted to
international bankers. The flood of riches looted from
overseas has decimated our own industries. Our high-handed,
stiff-necked arrogance and moral certitude has raised multitudes of
enemies and alienated our oldest friends.

America is now run by the equivalent of Iran's Ruling Council
of Mullahs - six hard-line, holier-than-god authoritarians from
hell: Bush, Ashcroft, Scalia, DeLay, Santorum, and Frist. Any one
of these Torquemadas has veto power over any legislation
or policy crossing his desk.

And, like any theocracy, there are plenty of businessmen
who are willing to say they "believe" as long as it brings them
a profit. Cheney and Rumsfeld come to mind. After all, how hard
is it to say you hate Moslems when your company wants to bomb,
rob, and rape Arabs to make cost-plus profits at Uncle Sucker's
expense?

We are also awash in viciously provocative sycophants, like Rush Limbaugh,
a guy who would bring marshmallows to an auto-de-fe. The hate radio
artists are the theocratically-sponsored muzzeins of our on-the-air
mosques. Five times a day they chant: "There is no god but Bush, and
Limbaugh is his profit. Drugs? What drugs?"

It is no surprise then that the Inquisitors on the ground in Iraq,
Afghanistan, and Guantanamo are the cream of the spook-trained
commandos - the Jesuitical true-believers in Rumsfeld's gospel of black
ops, torture, and assasination; Ashcroft's acolytes of theocracy, censorship,
surveilance, and stool-pigeoning. The soldiers taking the fall were just heating
the pokers and turning the screws on the racks at the command
of these masters of deniable sadism. (We were just "softening
them up" - right, like Hiroshima was just softening up Japan.)

-----

In the end, America is going out like a Monty Python skit. Despite the
evidence of torture, murder, Constitutional evisceration, aggressive
warfare, and so forth, America still doesn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
That's why we're going to get it.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe if I try insulting people, I can get some comments...
Hey, DUers, I think you are all in denial. America is over.
We should have run Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld out
of town on a rail two days ago.

Instead, we let their talking heads get away with "up is
down", anyone who talks about this is aiding the enemy,
etc.

America is over. The Dems are pussys. The GOP are
Rottweilers. Nader is a rabid racoon.

Anyone disagree?

arendt
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. Hey, I agree with all of that.
And I wonder, as well, why we didn't march on Washington a year ago and kick them ALL out on their asses.

All of them. Dems and Repubs alike.

Okay, maybe we'd let Byrd keep his office.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Byrd, Teddy Kennedy, and Kucinich
Edited on Wed May-12-04 07:16 AM by arendt
They are among the few who dare to speak truth to power.

Byrd is too old and well-connected to be threatened.
Teddy is too rich and too committed.
Kucinich is some kind of saint or fool or both.

Meanwhile, Kerry is busy bashing Chavez - even as
Chavez finds Columbian paramilitaries (armed by
you-know-who) on a ranch owned by a Cuban exile
(gee, what a coincidence) plotting to kill him.

----

I still want to do some street theatre. I want to act out our
version of the nutcases running our country into the ground.
I want to say that fundies and corporate pirates and gun-
worshipping, Fox-watching morons are sick people.

Time for doing this is running out.

And I certainly don't expect much publicity. That would
be against the corporate rules. Maybe we could behead
someone. Or maybe, like Edward II, our skit could stick a
red hot poker up Bush's ass. That would be more in
tune with the Grand Guignol atmosphere we live in.

arendt
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
52. I disagree. Rottweilers are exceptional dogs
If you treat them well, if you socialize them, Rottweilers are IMHO the best dogs in the world. They are smart, loyal, with deep emotional sensitivity. I've had three of them and wouldn't have given them up for anything in the world.

On the other hand, the GOP leadership is stupid, stubborn and insensitive. I suggest they are hyenas.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whew!
:kick:
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Very thoughtful piece........Worth the read.
I think everyone is wraped up in the beheading story.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. We got to do more than read
How about we dress up as Inquisitors and do some street
theatre, forcing terrorists to confess their sins?

We can mock the fundies, the politicos, the spooks.
I am sick of the whole bunch of them.

We'll tell the local Islamic community, and they can come
out and stand guard as we exercise our rights to free speech.
I wouldn't expect anyone but them, and maybe the gays
and feminists to be willing to put their butts on the line.

What the hell happened to the half million anti-war marchers
in the streets?

WHY AREN'T THERE ANY DEMONSTRATIONS BEING ORGANIZED?

arendt
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Stageplay
Enter Rumsfeld in Priest's Garb
followed by spook acolytes, dressed in polo shirts, dockers, and sun glasses.

Enter Cheney, shotgun in hand, bag of ducks over shoulder.

Rummy: Dickie-boy, can you help us torture some terrorists?

Cheney: Sure, Rummy. Just don't call me Dickie-boy (waves gun menacingly).

Rummy: Chief spook, get those lackey soldiers to bring in the victims,
I mean suspects.

Head spook: Yes, your spunkiness.

etc.

----

Actually, I suck at dialogue. Anyone else want to take a crack at it.
We could perform it on the Common.

arendt
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. And miss the next installment of American Idol?
Are you kidding??

I said, half-jokingly to CGrantt57 last night that the only thing that might blast people out of their stupor is an actual terrorist incident during a live performance of American Idol (I originally thought Survivor, but I figured the regime would throw a ratings bone to its running Fox).
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am sick of all this "inside baseball" "conspiracy theory" stuff...
it is clear to a brain-damaged aborigine that Bush and company
are vicious, corrupt, lying, murderous scum.

Nick Berg, condolences to his friends and relatives, is just the
latest in a long line of innocents to get killed by being anywhere
near the Bush operation. I hear that he was actually pro-Bush,
over in Iraq trying to promote democracy. Poor, deluded guy -
he actually believed that the GOP stand for something other
than greed and torture.

How are we going to use this white-hot moment before the
GOP fire extinguisher system snuffs it out?

arendt
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. I look forward to and at the same time, dread your posts
They strike a nerve and uncover all of the salve that the junta's propagandists have been attempting to smear on my wounds all day long today.

Having lived through the Vietnam era with a lottery number of 15, having marched against that clusterfuck of a war, knowing people whose lives were snuffed out for no reason in that war, and watching on TV as college students were mowed down by national guardsmen for protesting that war, I can only tell you that it won't hit home with Americans until there is a draft and their comfortable fat asses have to face the real possibility that they will be shipped to that hell hole we have created against their will.

At that moment, shit will hit the fan. Not until.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They won't call for a draft before the election...
and if Bush loses, they shouldn't call for one after wards.

If Bush wins, I'm outta here. So, if there is going to be any protesting
by me. Its going to be before they announce a draft.

arendt

Lottery number 15 - sad. What did you do?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. At the time there were organizations around each major
campus....mine was called the Genesis House. There were full time counselors who had the full book on conscientious objector status, medical deferments, safe houses in Canada, the works.

As it happened, an orthodontist suggested that my teeth were in need of straightening. When I went for my draft physical, and all were lined up in their underwear, and they read the long list of questions about medical problems, one of the questions I knew to be asked was "permanent orthodontic appliances". I raised my hand and he told me to step forward. The sergeant asked me what my problem was and I just smiled at him. I thought he was gonna punch me out.

At the time there were about 500 body bags a week coming home. EVERYONE knew the thing was a miserable failure and that it was lost. It was a senseless meatgrinder, much like this one.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. beats a pilloidal cyst
Why doesn't everybody get that THIS war is a miserable
failure?

Why does anyone watch TV? The shows are crap, the
news is propaganda, and the commercials are psychological
warfare.

This torture scandal is like the moment in John Carpenter's
"They Live" where the wrestler (Rowdy Roddy Piper) shoots out
the distortion projector and everyone gets to see who is an
alien.

Bush is an alien, Rumsfeld and Cheney are big time aliens.
Imhofe is an alien. All the TV whores are aliens.

Just like the movie, just like the X Files, the aliens hold all
the positions of power; and people just sit there.

I begin to know what it felt like to be a Jew in Germany.

arendt

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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
41. 'If Bush wins, I'm outta here'

We feel the same way. But my question is to where? I'd love canada, but my wife cant take the cold.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. And like Spain under the Hapsburgs
we are governed by a dynasty of morons.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't have anything to add
but I hope more people will read what you wrote. There's too much truth for comfort in what you wrote. This administration has made visible, and with the invasion of Iraq manifested on a grand scale what has been going on to a greater or lesser degree since WWII. Which is why the US is so loathed by so many people around the world. We refuse even now to see what is staring us in the face.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I have. Imhofe is just the kind of brain-dead fanatic you expect...
to find in a position of power in a theocracy. A narrow minded,
ignorant yahoo from a state that gave us that other piece of
hypocritica dirt, J.C. Watts.

He is outraged that we are outraged! These people have NO
SHAME.

Why, why, why do liberals put up with this crap? These people
are insane, delusional, dangerous. The media is totally bought
and paid for.

It is the Spanish Inquisition.

WHERE ARE THE DAMN DEMONSTRATIONS?

arendt
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. Yes, where ARE the demonstrations?
Is everyone too stunned? Not enough time yet to organize?

Yes, Imohofe is beyond the pale.

And now we have news that the UN was writing to US about Iraq abuses. Will the committee get Rumsfeld back and ask if we are expected to believe that THOSE letters went to prison commander?

And how interesting that our fearless media will publicize the torture photos, with their S/M overtones to titillate the public, but not the photos of burned, dismembered, dead Iraqi infants and children.

I rant on, but to what point? At least this will kick your post.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Liberals put up with this shit because they are........
in awe of the conservative, you know as they say, they came from good homes, good private schools, colleges and university so we tend to admire and get hooked. Oh sound so unique, speaks intelligently all that crap just to blind us from the truth. This is how its done, its a shame but Liberals have always look up to these morons, and guess what, they know how to sell themselves too.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. What the fuck are you talking about???
Liberals are in AWE of conservatives? We look up to them?

:wtf:

This may be the dumbest post I've ever read on DU.

The only thing on which you're right is that they know how to sell themselves. That, they do, without a doubt. But the rest of it is nothing but drivel. Pure drivel.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. In response to your
outrage, why are you fighting, what is your course, you expect me to believe that your course is a just one, how do I know when you are in a position you won't walk away, you will stay the course can you assure me that, I doubt that very much, there goes my point, some of us have forgotten about what we are about, WE SELLOUT EVERYDAY when given the chance so do you tell me about wtf i'm talking about.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Sorry, I don't speak gibberish
:dunce:

In order for me to answer you, you'll have to reframe your post in an understandable format. I would suggest starting with a basic premise or question, clearly stated, preferrably backed up with some kind of evidence or fact. Proper grammar, spelling and syntax would also help.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Is it too hard for you to understand...........
there goes my point exactly, turning up your nose as if you're better than me, as long as there is need people will always want. Here you are automatically thinking you're well educated.......boom!!!! talking bout correct your grammar, completely missing my point by trying to be miss 'knowitall' since you don't get it, I'm afraid to say that you will never get it, keep living in denial.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Well, it's been real -- but I've got more entertaining things to do...
... like pulling out my toenails with a pair of needlenose pliers.

Once again, I don't speak gibberish. This has nothing to do with being "educated". It has everything to do with stating your premise in a way that it can be reasonably understood. Since you have failed to do that so far, I am unable to answer -- because I have no idea what premise I am giving an answer to.

And for the record, it's not "Miss Know-It-All", it's MISTER Know-It-All.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. thought I was speaking to one
Edited on Wed May-12-04 03:52 PM by bolokshi
just came across as a cow thats all, you should stay and continue, looks to me I just found myself a wolf.
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scottxyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Nice try at muddling-the-argument, bolokshi
If you had any reading or comprehension skills, you would see that arendt has argued an important and fairly novel argument: that things are going from bad to DANGEROUS not for ALL of us now.

You were amusing in your earlier "How To Be A Troll" 101 post but now you're rambling and getting boring (something about how it's been getting "hot" in DU "lately" - which was your 39th post as I recall.)

Trailing off as you do in your current with "so do you tell me about wtf I'm talking about" is NOT considered intelligent political discourse on this board. You sound as mush-mouthed as George Bush. Enough of the Muddling-The-Argument tactics already. Arendt's article was very well-thought out and packed a major punch. Which is probably why a disruptor like you felt compelled to weigh in on it and see if you could hijack the thread.



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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. put her in the comfy chair!
noooooooobody expects the spanish inquisition!

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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Until they feel the spear up their butt!
:kick:
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as:
fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms!
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. good read - always thought provoking
kick for the night shift
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wow! That fucking rocked!
I was looking for the link, then I realized (I'm supposing) you wrote that yourself.

Great stuff! I'm e-mailing it!

Also, the headline made me laugh out loud. I love a little dark humor. But then I saw you were serious. I still like the headline. Because, yes, nobody ever expects evil.

I mean, most evil people are NOT taken seriously at first. I've met a few in my own life and been victim to them. They seem completely harmless when you first meet them. Hitler? What a little joke of a putz.

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Evil has been trivialized
People fought the Fascists in WW2. That was real evil.

Since then, it has all been Hollywood-ized, glamorized,
and over-killed. Our sense of evil has been flattened by
too much pseudo-violenece in the media.

People seem to think our current situation is just another
TV show, some awful "reality TV" joke. They only see the
mess on TV. We haven't had anything happen in the U.S.
since 9/11 - if you don't count the destruction of our civil
liberties, and most people don't count that.

We need to get back in the streets, to make human contact,
to see our numbers. As long as we sit in front of computer
screens and TVs, they are winning.

arendt
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Now THIS I agree with!
WWII was real evil. The problem is that that storyline has been repackaged and resold by our consumer culture so many countless times that it has lost meaning. What we have instead come to believe is that such things are overly simplistic -- and that we are always the unerring good, which makes "them" the ultimate evil.

We've also come to believe that evil is an external concept, something with fixed numbers that can somehow be "ended". Taking my cue from your namesake, Hannah Arendt, it is important to remember the "Banality of Evil" -- that it is something that lies within each and every one of us, and can be easily tapped and exploited.

That being said, I also agree with you regarding computer screens and TV's. I often lament that there are so few people with whom I can discuss these kinds of subjects that I encounter on a regular basis. Perhaps that is also a sad commentary on how far our culture truly has slipped, where the intellectual is disdained in favor of the kitsch.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
20. Wake up kick. You all need to "pop up a level"
I'm not drinking the Nick Berg kool aid.

In the big picture, he is simply today's episode in the
military/gestapo soap opera that is threatening to
take over America and the world.

You want the rest of your lives to be like yesterday?
Mayhem, shameless prevarication and blame-shifting,
phony patriotism, and war, revenge, and religious
mania?

Fine, then keep talking about Berg and videos and
conspiracies. You are doing exactly as the spooks
have calculated. Keep on being manipulated.

Suckers.

arendt
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. perhaps you personalize this too much..this passage:
"It is no surprise then that the Inquisitors on the ground in Iraq,
Afghanistan, and Guantanamo are the cream of the spook-trained
commandos - the Jesuitical true-believers in Rumsfeld's gospel of black
ops, torture, and assasination; Ashcroft's acolytes of theocracy, censorship,
surveilance, and stool-pigeoning.


...I think Rumsfeld and Ashcroft are just ones in charge at thist ime...the "inquistors on the ground" are coming from a subculture that can operate independently of Rumsfeld & Ashcroft, and without them...but the anolgy with inquisitiona and "Jusuitical true belief" is apt.

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
51. True, but Hitler came from the subculture of Ariosophony
My point is that the ideology may be there, but it takes
ruthless and crazy people to turn it into reality. And, given
the nature of this kind of authoritarianism, the crazos who
win have near absolute power. So their personal stamp
gets placed upon the underlying ideology.

Hitler didn't invent anti-Semitism or Wotanism or Art Deco
or the Swastika or radio. But he assembled all that into
a working machine of death and destruction.

Likewise, Rumsfeld is a charter member of PNAC. Bush
Sr called him one of the crazos. Don't ask me how the
utterly incompetent and nearly psychotic Ashcroft keeps
failing upward. Maybe he procures the little boys for all
the pederasts in the GOP.

In any case, these are the "human" face of the American
Inquisition.

arendt
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. Hi, Arendt! I missed you!
On the mark, as always. We will talk.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
27. Turn towards Washington and unfurl your prayer rug.
Five times a day they chant: "There is no god but Bush, and
Limbaugh is his profit<sic>..."



Not sure whether the misspelling was intentional or not, but I think this line (and word) wholly captures the spirit of your analogy. Religion provides control and cover. Profit provides a salve for the cancer on the soul.
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Texican Donating Member (164 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
28. Christian Torture
Remember General Boykin? He is the one that goes to Fundie churches and tells them how much fun it is to kill muslims. You know, the one who said "My God is bigger than your God." Well guess who ordered some of the torture.


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5109973
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. good find
and a :kick: for the morning
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hmmm... I'm usually a big fan of your stuff, arendt...
But this piece came across to me as rather grasping at straws and somewhat disjointed.

Have you ever read The Twilight of American Culture by Morris Berman? If what Berman writes is to be considered accurate -- especially when placed alongside the recent works of Kevin Phillips and Chalmers Johnson -- then what we are essentially seeing is the decline of America in our time. We are seeing a once-noble ideal that has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. We are seeing all the darkest principles that have evolved from the Enlightenment period -- materialism, concern with quantization of everything, obsessive focus on changing the outside world alongside no concern for inner reflection -- being placed as the highest values of our society. The ideals of democracy, freedom, individualism and self-determination are all warped into some kind of sick, twisted kitsch -- empty words with lots of flourish and pomp, but utterly devoid of any true meanings. They are only symbols of a bygone era meant for popular consumption and propaganda purposes.

We've also swung so far in the direction of what Pitirim Sorokin called a "sensate" civilization -- one consumed with materialism, scientific rationality and modification of external environments -- that the positive elements of the Enlightenment (i.e. critical analysis, respect for intellectual development, etc.) have been largely rendered irrelevant (or outrightly ridiculed) within society as a whole. Just look at the way that the Right Wing has come to view intellectualism, fact-based argument and scientific inquiry.

What we're seeing right now isn't the equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition. It's Ancient Rome, circa 400 AD. The ideals of the once-proud Republic have been hollowed out in pursuit of the Empire. Military spending approaches every dollar taken in from taxes. Intellectual thought has been cast aside for mysticism.

I'd like to think there's a light at the end of this tunnel, but the more I think about it, there may only be a Dark Age toward which we are presently flying at breakneck speed. At least the Inquisition was more of an anomaly in the midst of the Rennaissance and Enlightenment. The Dark Age following the fall of Rome was something else entirely.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. gee, thanks for the uplifting post.
:)

Very well written I might add. Nice.

Yet ..... you sound way more hopeless than I am. And I'm pretty damned pessimistic.

I really feel that we're at a huge crossroads. There are many alternate futures that are possible.

Just like there were alternate futures on election night 2000 and things got VERY VERY weird in the world starting that night.

We have to dig ourselves out of THAT one.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. Hi, irate. I don't get "disjointed"
Edited on Wed May-12-04 06:17 PM by arendt
Once I had the Imperial Spain analogy, the piece practically
wrote itself. And, I'm not the first one to go to that well. Kevin
Phillips gave Spain as an example of a bankrupt global
empire, more interested in financial manipulation than in
industry.

> Have you ever read The Twilight of American Culture by Morris Berman?
> ...what we are essentially seeing is the decline of America in our time.

Yes. I am a huge fan of Berman, especially "Coming to Our
Senses". I read "Twilight" and it depressed the hell out of me.
Morris has always been so intellectually positive. To hear him
so down just sucked the energy right out of me.

The Roman Empire analogy has been beaten to death. Nobody
would have read it. Despite it being true, no one (who hasn't
read Gibbon) understands that the end of the Latin Roman Empire was
a Catholic theocracy.

But. everyone knows about the Spanish Inquisition. It has been
the butt of jokes in Protestant countries for hundreds of years.
Monty Python, Black Adder, any literate comedy eventually has
an Inquisition sketch.

> The ideals of the once-proud Republic have been hollowed out in pursuit of
> the Empire. Military spending approaches every dollar taken in from taxes.
> Intellectual thought has been cast aside for mysticism.

As I said above, the Spanish were in debt due to their massive
military expenditures, trying to subdue the Dutch, police Italy,
invade England, take a bite out of France, etc.

They also flushed their intellectuals (i.e., Moors and Jews - even
the ones who tried to make their peace with the rulers.) Spain was
awash in relics and miracles.

The only point I might give you is that Spain had no ideals to
hollow out. It was just a bunch of military thugs. On the other hand,
they took up the banner of the Catholic Church, and its ideals
had been hollowed out by the Papacy in Avignon, the Borgia
and Medici popes, and the Indulgences scandal.

> I'd like to think there's a light at the end of this tunnel, but the more I think
> about it, there may only be a Dark Age

That's to America-centric. The Europeans aren't buying this crap;
and you can bet the Chinese are selling us rope to hang ourselves
as fast as possible. When the dust settles, America may have a
Dark Age, but it will be contained by all the places that the people
with brains and courage have fled to. Just like my analogy with the
Inquisition. The persecuted fled, then turned and defended themselves.

I stand by my analogy.

arendt
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. You're right regarding Phillips citing Spain...
I recall that from Wealth and Democracy -- in addition to citing the Dutch trading empire and the British Empire as well.

As much as I'd like to believe that Europe will see its way through this inevitable decline of America -- and I'm not implying that Europe is dependent on America in any way, other than a symbiotic economic relationship -- I have some doubts. Europe has not embraced corporate hegemony to the degree that the United States has, but that influence is growing rapidly. Such could possibly be the first step toward the eventual hollowing out of []their cultures as well, just not with quite the same rapidity of our decline.

Another important thing to consider is energy. Europe is not quite as wasteful as the United States in energy consumption -- but it still consumes an exponentially higher amount than developing nations. You mentioned China -- what happens as they begin using more and more fossil fuels? What happens to Europe and the rest of the Pacific Rim -- not to mention the United States -- when oil becomes scarce as compared with demand? I don't think that any of us can truly imagine the calamity that will result. While it will certainly present an opportunity, it will bring a great deal of strife as well.

We'll see if your assessment of the inquisition comes to fruition in the future. I don't think we're there yet -- that's why I used the term "disjointed", and upon re-reading your piece, it was admittedly harsh. But if the neofascism of the political right continues in its ascendancy, it will only be a matter of time until the inquisition turns inward, and dissenters become the new heretics. It is quite clear that we have replaced intelligent discourse and critical thought with blind allegiance and dumbed-down groupthink, so it probably isn't all that far off.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. You need to think more positively (look who's talking)
> China -- what happens as they begin using more and more fossil fuels?
> What happens to Europe and the rest of the Pacific Rim -- not to mention the
> United States -- when oil becomes scarce as compared with demand? I
> don't think that any of us can truly imagine the calamity that will result.

Study the Europeans.

The Danish have pioneered wind power. They have wind turbines as
economically cost-effective as anything you can do with fossil fuels.
The Europeans also have better planned cities where many people
go on foot, good subsidized rail travel (instead of expensive airplanes).
The Europeans are way ahead on Design-for-Recycling, Energy from
Biomass, etc.

Meanwhile, America is paying a fortune to subsidize beef production.
Its not paying to clean up the literal lakes of manure that this production
has created. We are not pursuing alternative energy, better gas mileage,
electric cars, etc.

Study the Chinese

They have learned somewhat from our mistakes. I will grant that they
are still building too fast. But that is because they feel they have to catch
up. I mean, their GDP is still relatively small for so many people and so
much land. They are caught between developing and conserving. Tough
choice. But at least they are using their brains to face it.

Then study America

The only reason there could be an oil catastrophe is because America
is so bloody wasteful and backward. Of course, the dinosaur corps want
it that way. It keeps profits up.

Just wait. When the oil hits the fan, it will be 1980 all over again, with
everyone buying efficient Japanese and European products.

I'm seriously thinking about installing solar or wind, and I live in
Massachusetts, not exactly a solar capital (although New England
is quite a windy place).

If (big if) we can oust the Bush junta, I think the Green Party (minus
Nader) will play a big role. (If we can restore rationality to America.)

Just trying to think positively. I mean, even folks stuck in Nazi Germany
felt that the rest of the world might offer them some hope.

arendt
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yes.
But they will call you a crackpot and accuse you of conspiracy theories to deny the unthinkable reality.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Even worse...
They'll brand you an "intellectual" for still daring to exercise independent critical thought, along with even knowing who Hannah Arendt is or bringing up "ancient history" like the Spanish Inquisition.

Forget about that stuff -- American Idol is on tonight! Why bother thinking when you can just get a television to tell you what to believe, and what's important.... :puke:
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. TV is the real opiate of the masses
Marx couldn't have possibly envisioned it.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. The Larch . . .
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. what do you mean you are a king??
I didnt vote for you.
the lady of the lake gave me this sword.
Well just because some aquatic tart gave you a sword doenst make you a legally elected king and so....
Good old monty python - i miss them so.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
47. Bring the comfy chair!!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
49. You say a lot that needs to be said, DU Friend arendt!
Now what should we do about it?


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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. Very well done
kick for the evening crowd
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scottxyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. I agree with arendt - I think it's Demonstrate or be Doomed now
Edited on Wed May-12-04 08:12 PM by scottxyz
Now the whole world can see that Bush is the moral equivalent of Saddam - and the Soviet Union. Now Bush is torturing and killing innocent people in a lawless Gulag Archipelago - Gitmo, Afghanistan, Iraq.

The Iraqis didn't throw off their dictator - and look what happened to them - they ALL got blamed.

Either we get rid of Bush NOW (not waiting for an "election") or we're gonna get blamed for our dictator's fuckups.

Not fair - but it's how history works. That's why either we get off our asses and get rid of Bush NOW - or we're all going down with him eventually somehow.

We don't need another website or another flash animation (although those are great things that get the ball rolling).

We have plenty of info and outrage NOW. Now is the time to have a bunch of old-fashioned demonstrations throughout the country (say, this Saturday) to show the world that WE THE PEOPLE do NOT stand behind Dictator Bush.

Otherwise it's gonna be a VERY long and painful 21st century with no more Geneva Convention, no more Constitution, no more Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, no Kyoto Treaty...

It's only 2004 and LOOK what a mess this century already is. We KNEW it was going to be a bumpy ride - but this bumpy, this soon? The pace is picking up people.

The internet and the digital cameras have done their job. We can't sit around and wait for Kerry to say something rah-rah at the convention and then wait and see whether Diebold steals the election for Bush in Novemember.

We need to throw the bums out. NOW.








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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
55. Inquisition Then and Now




It's difficult to believe they weren't going for the symbolism.
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