The Freeper spin on Iraqi Prisoner Torture

[MessiahRp]

is that it's by soldiers that are against the war and did this to turn the tide of American opinion against the war. That seemed to be echoed on my local news and even seemed to be a small sentiment of NBC Nightly news tonight.

It's an interesting thought because it's working regardless of motive, but even though the Freeps are crazy... is there any credibility to this idea at all?

Rp

[w4rma]

1. Insane. Those people live in la la land, imho.

The soldiers were under orders.

[Kipepeo]

6. Ridiculous

Because for a person to do this I'd think they have to be either:

A) Morally uncertain about it but willing to go along in the end because they bought all of the "patriotic" horseshit from Dubya & Co. about good vs. evil and to NOT go along with this would have made them question their simple worldview of us vs. them (Amerika = good, white, Christian, freedom lovers, Others = evil, subhuman, brown-skinned, Heathen, freedom haters). A person with this reasoning obviously is a supporter of the war & everything else they've been unwittingly spoon-fed by the administration. That's a given.

B) Sadistic & cruel from the get-go, someone who abuses people in their life outside of the army as well, someone who wanted to go to war so they could abuse and kill and take out their aggression in a 'sanctioned' way. And I think this kind of person would obviously have no objection to the war that allowed them to get their rocks off this way.


The freepers might have a chance in convincing me that the whistle-blower was not 100% certain about supporting the war but it makes absolutely no sense to allege that the torturers weren't behind the war and Dubya 100%

edited to add: sorry, this was a response to the original message, not to post 1 (I don't think post 1 is Ridiculous :D )

[Gingersnap]

2. Don't know why I'm bothering to argue with Freeper "logic" but

here goes. If these troups oppose the war wouldn't that be because they oppose causing needless human suffering? Couldn't that be because they don't want to kill innocent people for W to play "CoC"?

So, these anti-war soldiers decide to torture and kill people to stop the war? That is more like W-think to me--'war for peace' etc. These people are hopeless.

[mike1963]

3. I don't believe it, but even if it were true, it's a powerful indication `

that even the grunts are beginning to see what a clusterfuck the whole enterprise actually is. I'm not big on "the end justifies the means" but might make an exception for this possible scenario...
:eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

4. No, this was the result of high level

decision making. It has been systemic, not isolated incidents. They are so arrogant that they must have simply assumed they would not get caught, or that they had enough control over the media to keep it from getting much coverage.

The freepers will come up with any rationalization, no matter how twisted, to avoid Bush looking like he has responsibility for anything bad happening. They will also say absolutely anything to try to blame liberals for anything that goes wrong in their world.

So the answer is, no credibility.

[jonnyblitz]

5. I am waiting for them to blame Clinton somehow. n/t

[K8-EEE]

7. They Already Have!!

I saw it!! On one of the threads somebody said this was "Clinton's Army" and the "don't ask don't tell" thing had something to do with the "homoerotic" torture!!!!!!

I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT! They are bat-shit crazy...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. Yes they are.

And their being "Bat-Shit Crazy" is the best reason that I can think of to stay the fsck away from them. It might be contagious.

[jonnyblitz]

10. NO!!

but then...why am I NOT surprised. I heard a C-SPAN caller say the torture pictures probably came from a gay or lesbian internet porn site .

[lapauvre]

9. I have four sons, eight grandsons, one daughter, two granddaughters

I guess I am too upset to reply tonight. I guess I am too sickened by the damage done to both sides.

This is not Viet Nam, where civilians practiced murderous attacks on our military. These were people, helpless, voiceless, in control of the most honorable force in the world, the United States military, and anybody, somebody DID these things? And we are not even yet allowed to know what is happening at Gitmo.

I guess I am a true liberal, able to hold two opposing and balancing thoughts at the same time.

My grief is overwhelming for those who inflicted the damage and those who suffered it. My grief is overwhelming for my country.

I do hope that orders were given, and I do NOT accept "I was only following orders." There is absolutely NO excuse. None. None of our people should have followed dehumanizing, abusive, orders. None of them.

I have no answers for America, or how to nationally, or personally deal with this.

I imagine my grandson having to endure this, and I feel strongly, however young he may be, that he would prefer death.

I do not know what is to come. I fear it. I grieve I have a grandson serving there, but thanks be, not where this happened. I am so sickened.

[checks-n-balances]

14. Sometimes it's the only thing to do - grieve & lament

I only have one child, a 13 year old son, and it sickens me that he may someday have to serve in some senseless debacle like this one.

It felt bad enough to me the day that Bush rushed headlong into war; it was a time for tears and grief even before the first shot was fired.

This unjust and unprovoked war has ruined lives on both sides - as you've said - and done irreparable damage to our mindset as a nation and our credibility and respect in the world.

Whatis almost as sickening as these incidents of torture is the way they are being excused, rationalized and justified through the rhetoric of so many misinformed US citizens. It's ugly, and they seem incapable of having any basic empathy toward the victims of torture. It says as much about them as it does the ones perpetrating the crimes.

Anyway, my thoughts & prayers are with you since you have a grandson over there. It must be a tough thing to go through, and I hope this is the worst of the grief that you personally experience over this.

[MarkTwain]

11. "Your Local and NBC News?"

Such a ridiculous, absurd, and last-straw-grasping hypothesis is certainly an easy one to believe was hatched and cultivated out of desperation in Freeperland, but on the Local News and on NBC?

It's important to know the details of what each of these outlets may have either reported or conjectured in such a vain. I find it highly implausible that any conventional media would engage in such nonsense and would appreciate links to such material.

[Tellurian]

12. I hope Kerry revamps that quote under the Kerry Ad..

"Join me in choosing a man who has the experience, the integrity,and the vision to defeat George W. Bush and restore the rights and values in our country that are lost, thanks to the BAD stewardship of GWBush."




from: "thanks to Specials interests and major corporations."

TO: "thanks to the BAD stewardship of GWBush.

[jburton]

13. they have lost it

The freeps whole world where Bush* is the Second Coming of Christ is crashing all around them. They are left with little to hold on to.

[Bread and Circus]

15. ....hmmmm.....how about the more likely explanation that....

The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld doctrine of trashing the Geneva convention
rules/ethics/legality helped create a bad environment that promoted
prisoner abuse. Couple that with the corruptive force of power,
boredom, and the innate sadistic tendencies of humans and you have
your explanation for what happened.

The soldiers were wrong for doing what they did.
Others were wrong for standing idly by, watching it happen.
The Bush administration is most responsible for creating the
environment where "Americans are above the law".

It's all really creepy and I hope it keeps blowing up all over
Bush's face. The guy is a goddam asshole and an idiot. He has
no business being a mayor, let alone leader of the world. All
this shit is his fault. He's a fucking slippery eel but it's going
to catch up with him. It always does. I just hope it does
before he creates to much more pain and suffering in the world.