if it was in the papers.....

[radfringe]

mmmmmm.... this just occured to me

during rummy's testimony, he tried to weasel around the "outcry" by seeming to be 'amazed' that more people didn't know about the abuses and torture

he stated several times in about as many minutes that these stories were being reported in the media as early as January... and it wasn't until the publication of the pictures that there was a public outcry, meanwhile the abuse/torture was under investigation

ok, I'll by the public outcry bit, and the public not being all that aware

however, he also stated he was just as surprised as everyone else about the pictures

soooo this leaves me with a few questions


If he was also just as surprised about the pictures, why didn't he know about the very existence the pictures? If he didn't see the pictures prior to their media debut, didn't he at least have a description of the torture 'allegations' in the reports he was supposedly getting? If so, then why didn't this raise a few red flags?

He meets with bush* couple of times of week -- didn't he keep bush* apprised of the situation? or was bush* 'bored as hell' and didn't pay attention?

meanwhile -- these stories were in the paper in January and probably as early as Nov '03 --- so why was bush* so surprised -- he was soooooo surprised because he doesn't READ THE FREAKING PAPERS

[Columbia]

1. Probably didn't know about the pictures

I think the pictures were discovered fairly recently. To a lot of people, without pictures, there is no story.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Acdtually, I believe the pix were mentioned,

albeit briefly and nondescriptively (partially nude Iraqis or some such) in the January story.

[Columbia]

4. Well, as long as the media did not have access to the pictures

It is still a non-story. Just as the kidnappings/murders of non-white women are ignored while the ones of pretty blonde ones are covered on a national scale.

[parasim]

5. Indeed they were...

in fact, they're right there in the Taguba Report.

-snip

The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence Due to the extremely sensitive nature of these photographs and videos, the ongoing CID investigation, and the potential for the criminal prosecution of several suspects, the photographic evidence is not included in the body of my investigation. The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team.

-snip

-page 16 of the Taguba report


So, they knew about the photos. and if they wanted to look at them, knew where to find them.

[Columbia]

6. WTF??

So why didn't the media pick up on this then?? Too worried about Kobe and Michael Jackson I bet.

[parasim]

8. Good question

I know that the New York Times did a story on January 17 (late edition) about the abuse allegations. But then they didn't mention Abu Ghraib for another month after that. At least that's what came up when I searched the NYT archives. As for whether or not they mentioned the photos, I don't know, you have to purchase the article to read it and it doesn't have much detail in the abstract.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F5091EF834540C748DDDA80894DC404482

Yeah, Kobe, MJ, and also we were in the middle of a pretty heated primary season at that time... But still, why would the editors of the NYT not jump on this story? Methinks sumpin's up wit dat.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Media pick up on something?

It wasn't in the Pentagon's large-print, small-word special edition of the daily briefing, so how the hell were they supposed to pick up on it?

[Columbia]

10. Um, they're journalists

Their job is to investigate and print newsworthy stories.

At least, it used to be...

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Tsk-tsk!

Their job is to print what they're told to print. They are the conduit of information from Official Sources to the illiterate masses.

[liveoaktx]

7. Yup, watch the hearings- Smith says that's the reason for investigation

because of the photos that were known to be out there. They may not have SEEN the photos yet, but that's not the point.

[PaDUer]

12. Remember those 4 people from back when....

I posted a couple articles about the reservists, a couple was from this area..The one girl was a security person at one of the university's here...BUT, the info we were fed on these stories, was NOTHING like what's being told now..It just said abusing the Iraqis...There's MORE people involved than what's being told about..Congressmen Don Sherwood and Paul Kanjorski have been involved w/ these local people involved..

Interesting stories at this link search, especially this one, Graner, Lynndie England's boyfriend--
AP State News - May 07, 2004 By CHARLES SHEEHAN, Associated Press Writer, The Associated Press
MP investigated in Iraq was at Pa. prison during abuse scandal, but not implicated
A military police officer under investigation for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was employed at a state prison during a prisoner abuse scandal four years ago, but was not implicated in that case, according to the state Department of Corrections.

http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?brd=2185&pag=628&dept_id=415898&search=1&SORTBY=1&TITLE=&FULL=reservist+&AUTHOR=&DateRange=last90&x=17&y=10

Plus, two reporters from this local newspaper, were with these people..They were doing daily writings ans pix..There's a lot of info on these cases, and the earliest I can find on this at the newspaper site is Nov 12, 2003...
http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?brd=2185&pag=628&dept_id=415898&search=1&SORTBY=1&TITLE=&FULL=sgt+shawna+edmondson&AUTHOR=&DateRange=last6M&x=27&y=10

Top Stories - March 17, 2004 By Christopher J. Kelly TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
320th packing for trip home

Top Stories - January 16, 2004 By Chris Birk
Vendetta victims?
WILKES-BARRE -- Three Northeastern Pennsylvania Army reservists found guilty last month of abusing Iraqi prisoners claimed innocence Thursday and said their prosecution was the result of personal vendettas.

Top Stories - January 06, 2004 By Chris Birk
Three area reservists discharged from Army
After seven months in limbo, the U.S. Army on Monday discharged three Northeastern Pennsylvania reservists for abusing prisoners at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq. The soldiers from the Ashley-based 320th Military Police Battalion elected to plead their cases in a nonjudicial hearing, where a comman...

Top Stories - November 16, 2003 BY DAVID FALCHEK THE SUNDAY TIMES
Reservists Decline To Plead
Two former Judge Advocate General Corps officers could not explain why three reservists with local ties refused to enter pleas Saturday to charges of abusing Iraqi prisoners of war.

Miscellaneous - November 16, 2003 BY DAVID FALCHEK THE SUNDAY TIMES
Reservists Decline To Plead
Two former Judge Advocate General Corps officers could not explain why three reservists with local ties refused to enter pleas Saturday to charges of abusing Iraqi prisoners of war.

Top Stories - November 14, 2003 By Christopher J. Kelly
Three of four Army reservists to face trial
Three local U.S. Army reservists accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners of war will face courts-martial, an Army spokesman said. A fourth soldier has opted for an other-than-honorable discharge rather than face trial.

Local - November 12, 2003 By Tom Venesky
Reservists set to plead not guilty
Three of the four Army reservists accused of using excessive force against Iraqi prisoners of war will enter not guilty pleas at an arraignment Saturday.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, March 17, 2004
320th packing for trip home
Troops recall perilous duty, brutal heat

At Camp Bucca, the 320th primarily guarded prisoners of war, a tough assignment compounded by charges of abuse by four fellow MPs.

One of the four, former Sgt. Shawna Edmondson of South Abington Township, opted out of the service, taking an "other-than-honorable" discharge in November, rather than face a court-martial.

The other three -- Lisa Girman of Pittston, Scott McKenzie of Clearfield and Timothy Canjar of Madison Township -- ultimately were found guilty in a nonjudicial hearing in December. All three were fined and discharged.

The three claim, however, that they were victims of personal vendettas on the part of officers and are pressing to have their cases reviewed.

Asked for their take on the highly controversial situation, some soldiers said they were forbidden to talk about it. Others said they had no comment and that it's a sore subject best left alone.

-snip-

"It gets to the point where you get used to it," Sgt. McDonald said. "The mortars would start and there would be guys standing out there with video cameras."

Entire article--
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10975117&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6

http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11133048&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6
------------------------------------------
Iraq prison investigation hits home

By Christopher J. Kelly and Chris Birk TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS 05/07/2004

Incompetent leadership that included three officers from a local Army Reserve unit helped spur the "perverse atmosphere" at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to a report by Army investigators.

Lt. Col. Jerry Phillabaum, commander of the Ashley-based 320th Military Police Battalion, and two of his subordinate officers are singled out in the scathing, 53-page report, which concludes that Col. Phillabaum was an "extremely ineffective" leader who did nothing to stop the abuse of prisoners by soldiers under his command.

The report recommended that Col. Phillabaum, of Lansdale, Maj. David W. DiNenna, of Drums, and Sgt. Maj. Mark Luther Emerson, of Tobyhanna, be relieved of command and reprimanded for failing to supervise, discipline and apprise soldiers of the rights granted detainees by the Geneva convention.

The findings echo the claims of ill-preparedness by four 320th soldiers accused of abusing soldiers last May at Camp Bucca in southern Iraq. The detachment worked at Camp Bucca before moving to Abu Ghraib in July.

The four MPs - Timothy Canjar of Madison Township, Shawna Edmondson of South Abington Township, Lisa Girman of Pittston and Scott McKenzie of Chesterfield - all took demotions and discharges to avoid court-martial on the abuse charges.
-snip-

The 320th sent about 150 reservists, most from Pennsylvania, to Iraq in February 2003. The unit returned in March, the same month six soldiers from the Maryland-based 372nd Military Police Company, a National Guard unit attached to the 320th at Abu Ghraib, were criminally charged with physically and sexually abusing 20 Iraqi prisoners.

Entire story--
http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11462575&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=8

[kentuck]

2. A related thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1563698

"I just heard Rep Duncan Hunter (CA) say it again. It was reported to General Sanchez and he "reported it to the world". It was reported as alleged abuses in small print with no sense of urgency or even major concern about the charges. It left the impression that it was just another trivial charge in the middle of a war. They did not want the public to know the significance of the charges or they could have done so.... "