Have you been accuse of being Anti American lately??

[4dsc]

Isn't it ammazing, that while debating rightie, that if and when rightie cannot back up their claims with facts, or you begin using facts they cannot refute, that they rely on questioning your character or worse yet, calling you Anti American..

[NNN0LHI]

1. If you do or say anything that could reduce their tax cut or hurt their...

...stock portfolio in any way, you are Anti-American. That is the truth.

Don

[Solly Mack]

2. Daily. I'm a " loudmouth" liberal on an army post

We got orders to Germany recently and I was told "Your type is happier in Europe" by a particularly nasty rightwing neighbor..

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

26. How idiotic, Solly. You are actually in the service, and this bozo

has the BALLS to criticize. Should have asked him/her if they were bitter because Germany and France were actually right about the merits of this evil war. And when he or she was going to enlist to fight for their righteous cause! This type makes me so mad...

[Solly Mack]

33. I'm not serving, (my husband is)...and neither is the woman who

said that to me. She gets mad because I laugh at her rightwing rantings and was "pleased" I was leaving...

[zydeco]

3. I get this all the time.

Any time we try to talk reason the idiots make the sign of the cross and put it in front of reason= +reason. However, more and more I see people starting to at least listen and question things. we need to continue waking people up.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

Welcome to DU!!

We're glad to have you on board and we think you're a TRUE American for being here!! :grouphug: :yourock: :toast: :party:

[LoZoccolo]

4. Kind of.

I was in an argument with one, and he's usually not the jingoistic type, he's likes to keep up the sheen of being a calm, rational person, and when I brought up that three people had written books talking about how the administration wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11 he said something like that he didn't know about them because he doesn't spend all his time trying to undermine the government. I told him the "traitor" angle was cute and he pretty much didn't bring it up again - I guess that line of attack was more of a liability for him because I called him on it.

Really when they use this, I've found the best response is not to get into some sort of match where you beg them to believe you're not anti-American or something or launch into something about dissent being patriotic (because they already know this - if they've studied the constitution at all in history class they know this well already); just be like "oh that's such horse shit!" and act like they're acting stupid for saying that. Nail it right away the minute it appears and start acting like they're wasting your time with a dumb argument because they are. The whole point of them arguing this way is to get you on the defensive; don't let it work by being defensive.

[hang a left]

5. Well in a round-about way

I emailed the May Day list of casualties to alot of my address book. A little league coach/acquaintance sent back a message that said "the people that write this shit hate America" and some other Limbaugh 'talking points'.

[Wapsie B]

6. Not today.

But I'm going to Mom & Dad's for dinner.

[doni_georgia]

13. Yep, my dad will be in attack mode when I show up

Sure I will be called a traitor by my dad at least once today. My dad will be watching the talking heads for baiting points. He will start hurling them at my husband and me the instant we walk in the door. It's his SOP. My dad HATES General Clark (only because he was a Clinton supporter, and my dad's hatred of Clinton is pathological). Since Clark was on MTP this morning, dad will start in on him and my approval of him first thing. I know it! We just put our Kerry bumper stickers on the cars. Last election, my dad wouldn't let us park in his driveway, because of our bumper stickers. Bet you anything he will make us park on the street today as well. I just fucking love holidays! Yep, I'm a mom. It's my mother's day too, but I will spend the day having to defend myself. Just what I want for mother's day. My sister and brother will join in on my dad's side. They will all be baiting me. My husband will get pissed and end up not eating dinner. He will end up sitting in the car where he doesn't have to hear my dad - leaving me to fight the battle alone. My autistic son will cry, wanting to know why Da is being mean to mom. My mom will end up crying because the fighting has ruined her mother's day. I will end up apologizing to my mom, and most likely getting drunk. Yep, pretty much sums up every major holiday!

[4dsc]

20. I wish I was there

I would just love a conservation with you family.. Keep up the good work and never let them see you sweat..

Happy Mother's day too..

[redwitch]

25. why not just send a card next year?

i couldn't endure that every holiday, and you don't have to either. Take yourself someplace nice and destress! Happy Mother's Day!

[neebob]

29. I feel your pain

I'm dreading having to call my mom later, because it's just too darned hard to think of things to talk about that don't somehow, unexpectedly, veer off in a political, religious, or fatherly direction - the latter being the most volatile of all. So I sit there and say "uh-huh" or nothing until she says, "Well, it doesn't seem like you're up for talking," and I end up telling her why (again) and she plays dumb and asks me why I'm so bitter and I get to spend another week or two feeling guilty for telling her off.

I can relate to your dad scenario as well. My dad died last year. He was a rabid, Limbaugh-loving king boss man from hell who wouldn't let anyone disagree with him - especially me. One time, six or seven years ago, he yelled at me for criticizing Rush Limbaugh, and I just let him have it.

"You know what?" I shouted back. "You yelled at me every day of my life until I was 20, and I don't have to take it anymore!" Then I stormed out of the house. When I recovered from the adrenaline rush and came back inside, he was in bed sulking - as he invariably did when stood up to, to punish the one who dared to stand up. I noticed he was a lot more respectful of my opinions after that - and I never felt guilty about it. It felt good. If I could just get to the same place with my mom ...

I'm not advocating that you shout your dad down, just wondering if you've ever tried it. Or how about not going?

[Wapsie B]

31. Oh wow, I feel your pain.

Well, I know that chimpy has at least one vote for prez in NE Iowa. Dear old Dad is one of the gop core. Hearing his rant about how the torture and the photos weren't as bad as they seemed and how chimpy was winning the war made me realize that nothing will sway the old man's vote. A video of chimpy sodomizing young boys wouldn't dissuade someone like Dad from voting repug.

[0007]

7. Oh God yes! Especially when one lives in Midland it can't be avoided

I try not to talk politics to anyone I don't know. The Anti American comment I've heard only once. When most right winger is stumped for anything to say in a debate, I do hear, "people who want to tear down this country are not Real Americans" - .... that usually ends the debate.

[FireHeart]

8. Yes, quite often.

You can present a reasoned, logical argument about (as one example) the Freedom Of Speech, and they'll start screaming nonsense. While they are free to scream nonsense, it would be nice if they would at least TRY and counter my argument. "Why do you hate America?" is a very common expression, too. :(

[ethereal]

9. I live in a Repub state

yet I get LOTS of positive commments on my Kerry bumper sticker.

One staunch Republican client told me that he is going to break his voting habit of more than 40 years and vote for "anybody but Bush."

Intelligent Americans can take only so much of being blatantly lied to.

[FireHeart]

14. I am hoping that this is true.

We'll find out, won't we, in November. Just got to keep fighting the good fight until then.

[Ms. Clio]

10. Yep, and asked "why don't you just leave" if you think it's so bad here?

Hey, who can argue with that brilliant logic?

[davsand]

17. I got told to leave the country by an old lady.

She was yelling at me in the grocery store about my "Bush Lied" button and she told me to just leave the country if I think it is so bad here.

I reminded her that this nation was founded by political dissidents, and that we honor them by speaking out when we disagree with our government and its policies.

The conservative tactics have always been "leave if you don't like it." I can't say I'm surprised to hear it now, and I expect to hear it again several more times before this asswipe is out of the people's house. I'm almost at the point where I am able to chalk it up as a sort of victory if I rattle them so badly they have to resort to that one...

Laura

[Ms. Clio]

19. yes, It is a victory of sorts

I also asked this person, "Is that your solution to every problem? Running away? If you have a problem with your marriage, is your first response to get a divorce, or do you try to work it out and make it better?"

The response was some incoherent mumble, naturally.

[camero]

27. I get asked that too

I ask them if they'll get my ticket.

[liberalitch]

11. I've had people DEMAND...

that I respect this president..... I just laugh.

[doni_georgia]

12. Got called an "America hater" the other day, because I dared question

the repug deinition of patriotism. I said that I felt it was actually unpatriotic to ignore America's flaws. What has made America what it is, is our willingness to openly debate problems facing us and to do something about them. I said that this blind acceptance of what the current administration tells us isn't patriotism and is, in fact, damaging to our republic. For this statement I was told, "If you hate America so much, you need to leave!"

Nothing like the reasoned response of the right.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

28. The Right Wing is the GREATEST THREAT America faces!

[4dsc]

32. What about Blame America??

are you part of that crowd too?? LMAO!! CONsevatives are so funny sometimes..

[seabeyond]

15. i start all conversations; 3 yrs being told anti american

unpatriotic, terrorist, not a christian,........if i dare say any of my opinions that are opposed to republicans, there isnt any way people are going to tell me to shut up any more. so never have i had anyone go there. i start with governor of oklahoma saying vote for kerry i am a terrorist. and southern baptist leader saying jesus knows how i vote in 2004. when i die and face him, he will remember this vote.

i shame them to keeping mouth shut with that one

another easy they go to, they all lie..............i immediately go after that one not accepting saying that is the lazy out. and prove that wrong

[otohara]

16. I Was Called Several Names

attacked personally because they can't defend cabal - next best tactic is to go after the dissenter.

[ScreamingMeemie]

18. About ten times just yesterday on a message board.

If it makes them feel better they can go for it. I know who I am. :hi:

[proud patriot]

21. Yep !

For having pro Troop pro Constitution and a Kerry sticker
yellow ribbons and flags to boot .

to quote what was said to me "You should be tried
and shot for Treason for for for for ummmm this stuff"

on edit I thought I should include I got thanked
for my courage yesterday by a real big brute of a man .
He asked me if I'd ever have violent reactions of hate
to my car ? We talked for about 5 minutes at the gas pump .
It was wonderful everyone there at the gas station got
to hear me talk about the hateful words and letters I
recieve in the mail . While also hearing me talk about
my support of our Troops and the Constitution .

He asked me if I could explain the hate , All I could think
to say was "it's like it is a Cult and I hope our country can
heal it's wounds." He departed with these words "To Live
In Fear Is To Be Controlled "

[DaveSZ]

23. Oh this one is so easy man

You simply tell them about how Ashcroft and the neocon cabal are destroying our Constitution piece by piece.

That's the main reason why I'm backing Kerry to be honest.

When they bring up the 2nd Amendment, bring up the 'Patrtiot' Act.

Also Ron Paul is a man who is widely respected on all sides of the political spectrum (including by me). You can point them to his website, and he spells out well what is really going on.

http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/neo-conned.htm

Congressman Ron Paul addresses the U.S. House of Representatives
July 10, 2003


"Neo-conned"




http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-01-09/pols_naked7.html

Patriot II, Piece by Piece
BY JORDAN SMITH


Rep. Ron Paul, R-Surfside, calls the new law allowing financial snooping "outrageous and unacceptable."




While the so-called Patriot Act II -- a wish list of sweeping powers dreamed up last year by U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to augment 2001's USA PATRIOT Act -- disappeared shortly after a draft copy was made public early last year, it did not die. In fact, on Saturday, Dec. 13 -- as news of Saddam Hussein's capture drove the news cycle -- President George W. Bush signed into law a bill that will allow the federal government broad access to individuals' financial records without a court order. This allows the government to sidestep decades-old financial privacy laws, all in the name of preventing terrorism.

House Bill 2417, the Intelligence Authorization Act for fiscal year 2004, debuted in Congress last June, and was pushed back and forth between the House and Senate for nearly five months before finally making its way to Bush's desk on Dec. 2. The lengthy perennial bill authorizes appropriations for all intelligence-related activities and, on the whole, is fairly standard. However, the final bill was amended by the Senate to include a section that redefines and broadens the phrase "financial institution" -- an obscure yet sweeping change that, at least until challenged in court, will allow the federal government the ability to snoop into nearly every financial aspect of individuals' lives.

Previously, federal law enforcement officials could gain access to individuals' financial records from a bank only if those individuals were suspected of crimes and only after gaining the approval of a federal judge. But the new IAA not only allows the feds to snoop through financial records without a warrant and without demonstrating the person is actually a suspect in a crime, but also broadens the arena for snooping. The legal definition of "financial institution" previously referred only to banks. But now, the feds can examine financial records held by stockbrokers, car dealerships, casinos, credit card companies, insurance agents, jewelers, airlines, pawnbrokers, the U.S. Postal Service, and any other business "whose cash transactions have a high degree of usefulness in criminal, tax, or regulatory matters." Federal law enforcers need only draft a "National Security Letter" requesting the records in order to get them.

This change ultimately passed the U.S. House, but not before a handful of legislators -- including Texas Rep. Ron Paul, R-Surfside -- voiced stern opposition. "These expanded internal police powers will enable the FBI to demand transaction records from businesses ... without the approval or knowledge of a judge or grand jury," Paul said during a speech from the House floor on Nov. 20. "This was written into the bill at the 11th hour over the objections of members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which would normally have jurisdiction over the FBI. The Judiciary Committee was frozen out of the process. It appears we are witnessing a stealth enactment of the enormously unpopular 'Patriot II' legislation that was first leaked several months ago. Perhaps the national outcry when a draft of the Patriot II act was leaked has led its supporters to enact it one piece at a time in secret. Whatever the case, this is outrageous and unacceptable."

-more-

[Columbia]

22. No

But I've been called a babykiller on this board...

[indepat]

24. Not in so many words, but shortly after my damming LTTE was published,

I received an unsigned letter which I took as a veiled threat that, if I know what's good for me, I had better be careful what I say going forward.

[Guaranteed]

30. Not lately, but I was told that many times before the war. nt