WHERE ARE THE PICTURES / VIDEOS??

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

O.K., enough already...where are the rest of the pictures and videos of the Iraqi prison torture? WE NEED THESE TO COME OUT IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA. Joe Shmoe, Repuke, lemming fundies will only turn on their master (BFEE) if they are presented with pictures and video of aberrant sexual behavior. Those American who are politically unplugged and brainwashed by pop culture only care about sexual misconduct or scandal (a la Clinton BJ or Condit scandal).


So, where's the goods. And, for those who would question my call for use of the pictures for political gain...Do you really think that the Repukes would hesitate one second on using the prison photos and videos as fodder for destroying a Democratic President? WE NEED TO FIGHT DIRTY TO WIN THIS COUNTRY BACK FROM THESE FASCIST, NEOCONS.

JB

[MGKrebs]

1. I don't think we really need to see them.

We know they are there, and we know (pretty much) what they show. The Red Cross tells us the problem:

"The mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners in US custody is not limited to isolated cases but forms part of a systematic pattern, the Red Cross has said."

"The document concluded that abuse of Iraqi detainees was widespread and in some cases tantamount to torture."

"It says prisoners were beaten, in one case leading to death, and that soldiers fired on unarmed prisoners from watchtowers, killing some of them."

"The report says the ill-treatment was widely tolerated, especially with regard to extracting information from Iraqis."

"We were dealing here with a broad pattern, not individual acts. There was a pattern and a system," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3694521.stm

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Wrong. They need to come out.

The press will ignore the story without the pix/vids, but will run with it if they get them.

Somebody's gonna leak them within 4 days if they don't come from official channels.

There have to be some high-ranking Army officers who want them out, and the military nudoubtedly has copies.

All genies are out of their bottles in a digital age.

[mopaul]

5. we should rub their faces in these photos

like one does a dog in his own shit to teach him not to shit in his own house. they SHOULD be published, we ALL need a good dose of what bushco has wrought. i'd suggest to someone who does not want to see them, not to look

[anarchy1999]

18. Well, that was to the point, Mopaul!

Harsh, but well put.

[laura888]

31. agreed! This is what the "war on terrorism" looks like

Americans need to look long and hard and decide whether they want to support this madness.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

32. Some Aversion Therapy is in order.

[toddzilla]

35. please, please explain how rubbing a dog's...

please explain how rubbing a dog's nose in shit teaches him not to shit in the house?

I'd like to hear this, really.

[mn9driver]

12. Visuals have huge impact compared to words.

They definitely need to come out.

[mmonk]

7. They need to come out

"we" are the United States. If the pictures don't come out, the spin control will continue and people won't know or really believe it. Many Americans are in denial and the others, just base.

[deepcover]

9. show them all

i think they should be shown. after living thru vetnam with all the daily death counts and body bag pictures the only picture that comes through this fog and blur of images that i call my memory, is the one of the young vetnamese girl running down the road crying with her clothes burnt off her body. that one image helped turn this country from war. pictures are powerful, they can be a mirror to our soul, reminding us what we've done. shaming us...

[zeemike]

3. We don’t need to fight dirty…

We need to fight fair and beat them in spite of there dirty fighting.
Nothing good can come from evil.
But a photo is never evil if it only shows the truth. Not showing the truth to me seems evil.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

15. Idealistic...and WRONG. Blessed are the meek, but the meek don't win.

Democrats need a spine and we need to "go for the kill" while the Repukes are down. No wishy-washy worrying about moral high-ground.

JB

[zeemike]

53. The meek don’t win?

Have you ever heard of Gandhi? He delivered the Indians from colonial control and never compromised his principles, which were far more stringent than those of us here.
But perhaps you confuse meekness with being a coward or having some other weakness.
Jesus was the meekest of men but none ever thought he was a coward or afraid to stand and defend the truth against a lie.

[JohnnyRingo]

4. Wow A.W.L

and I thought I was maybe getting too upset these days.
Did it take long to think up that name ? LOL

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

21. Actually, in my offline life I'm quite reserved and calm. DU is an outlet

Call it "DU therapy" if you like.

Regards,
JB

[LittleApple81]

6. People: Levin AND Graham (dem and repug senators) WANT THEM OUT

to the public. They say that is the only way we can demonstrate that we are dealing with the problem and therefore try to clean up our damaged reputation around the world.

[MGKrebs]

8. Oh, I'm sure they WILL come out.

I just don't think it is necessary. Rummy and the boys are right about one thing: those pics coming out are going to cost some American lives.

{edited due to an "n" deficiency}

[deepcover]

10. a different look

i believe they will save lives by bringing this occupation to an end sooner. if these pictures make us pull out of that country one day sooner then they have done a good thing.

[Torgo4]

11. RW and Faux Newsies Turning Away

A La Cal Thomas who is somehow blaming the victim!
We need to pile this horror up to BushCheney/Rummy's neck. THEY set the tone of "Geneva Convention, Shmonvention!"


"Kindness has converted more sinners than zeal, eloquence, or learning.

Kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people.

A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough!”

[LizW]

13. Russert just said

that someone in the White House said that the idea was to let certain Senators see them and go out and "soften up" the public by repeating how awful they are. After hearing that over and over, the shock won't be so great when the videos are shown.

These people are unbelievable.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Look at the past history of these people and you'll realize that...

...Russert is actually telling the truth on this topic. The NeoCons ALWAYS release a little bad news to soften up the public for the REALLY bad news, regardless of the issue.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. I don't care to see them. It is shameful enough just knowing that

they are out there and that Bush continues to use words like morality and values...

[Skittles]

24. I personally could not view them

but they need to be made available.

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. Agreed. But I wonder just how we will redeem ourselves in the court

of world opinion? I really hope they know that this is not the majority.

[matcom]

16. Room 101

i agree they need to come out. i don't want to see them personally cause they will be sicker than the first volley (which made me weep) but your right. they need to be released

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

19. The point is...the REPUKE LEMMING FUNDIES need to see them.

Frankly, I don't think that anyone on DU would be overly concerned about seeing the photos because their viewing by us would be "preaching to the choir."

My point was that the Repuke "black-n-white" thinkers who are led around by Shrub's view of the world as the Middle East as a bunch of "dark skinned" heathens and "killers", NEED TO SEE THE PHOTOS.

These photos may be the only thing that can crack into the tough skulls of dumbass Repuke lemmings. These repressed Repuke fundies only pay attention to salacious materials and scandals, not reasoned liberal arguments and passionate logic.

JB

[Thoth]

40. Amen to that! n/t

[bhunt70]

20. Do you really think they should come out? What about the Iraqi's seeing

the rest. Should we add more shame onto what the detainees feel?

Just a question, It may be bad for the US, good for the democrats in some way, but also painful for the Iraqis.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

22. The Iraqis have known about the torture for MONTHS

The Iraqis opinion will only be reaffirmed by the pictures. It's the minds of Repukes that need alteration. And, if it's embarrasing for us, then so be it. Maybe it's about time that the broad American public to feel the shame that the Iraqis have suffered.

I'm tired of feeling ashamed of my country, but we're not going to move to a better place in this country by just sweeping our "dirty laundry" under the rug.

JB

[Lindsey]

23. They need/must come out...and people still may not get it

I agree about them sending out people saying how bad they are so that Americans will be expecting the worse. I can just hear it now, "they aren't THAT bad." (I mean really, do you want to compare torturing some people that live in an evil doing country to a BJ THAT CLINTON RUINED THE COUNTRY WITH....COME ONE - WHERE'S THE LOGIC IN THAT?)

[Gingersnap]

41. I don't think hardcore Bush supporters can be swayed

we can only hope to startle the apathetic out of their stupor with these. The other day I had a guy here to fix a pipe. this plumber and I were talking about the Rumsfeld testimony and he started up with "they do worse to us, we shouldn't apologize, that just makes us look weak" and I said something about this angering Iraqis who maybe had tried to be patient with the US occupation. he basically said that muslims aren't human, "they don't have the same morals as us. they're not capable of forgiveness, so why apologize? Plus, like Joe Lieberman said (uggh...), when did they apologize for 9/11? the only way to win this is to totally annhilate them and get them off the face of the earth. they will never stop hating us."

So I don't think this guy would be swayed by the photos. They chant the mantra of 9/11... When I pointed out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or the Palestinians (he brought up the case of the pregnant Israeli woman who was recently killed and said that was more cruel than anything in these pictures, and afterall, those guys are in jail for a reason), he said that their religion makes them hate all americans. This is a war between civilizations, etc., etc....

[SoCalDem]

49. Tit, meet tat....

The tit for tatters will never be convinced.. Even if the pictures do find their way into the public, the koolaid kids will just tell themselves and each other, that they were photoshopped..

To a significant segment of the population, this is a Holy War, and if we think we are still mad about 2000...consider this..."The Passion" has them all pissed abhout the Jesus thing, and They have convinced themselves that the "Ay-Rabs" all want to kill us, and somehow it's all Clinton's fault..but they are perfectly willing to "kill 'em all" now, and Praise their new saviour GWB...

There is no amount of evidence that will convince them.. I have said it many times..They are irrational people..If GWB took a machete and hacked Laura to death on the Today show, they would all just tune in to Rush or Sean to see what horrible thing SHE must have done to make him do such a thing..:eyes:

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

51. Sadly, you might be right. However, there must be a few dim lightbulbs.

I'm hoping that we can pick off a good number of Repuke lemming, go-alongs and bring them to an understanding of the BFEE. The fence-sitters on either side will be the margin that decides the 2004 vote.

JB

[seabeyond]

26. reasonable people dont need to seem them

45% of the people need to see cause they are still in denial and frat to do. they have to see them. sad but the way it is. they wont believe anyway. think how many still think saddam did 9/11

[nomaco-10]

27. I don't want to see them, but I feel I must.....

look at them if they are released, just as the world had to see the pictures of the piles of the naked, emaciated bodies and the crematoriums from the holocaust. It is our duty to bear witness and document all atrocities to make sure they will not happen to future generations.

I have been repulsed to the point of nausea viewing the pictures of Rwanda, the gassing of the Kurds, the killing fields of Cambodia and now these photos from Iraq, but they must be seen, they must be etched in the minds and memories of everyone in the world. As much as I would like to look away, I just can't.

[MGKrebs]

29. Even considering my post below, you make a compelling case.

(edited for clarity)

[MGKrebs]

28. I guess I would say that this is way beyond politics for me.

Getting some Repubs to somehow "see the light" is not worth the price we will pay. Just as we speak of the "shock value" here at home, we should recognize that the same will apply to the Muslim world and the Iraqis in particular. They may have known about this for months, but you all know as well as I do that seeing the pictures will be highly inflammatory.

I'm just saying I would prefer that they be shown to the UN, or the ICC, and let them do their thing. If right wing wackos can't see the truth without seeing the actual graphic imags, then they're probably beyond hope anyway.

Having said all that, I do believe it is inevitable that they will come out. I just think it is sad and will cause a lot of pain and trouble and even lives lost. I see a jihad coming.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

34. A Jihad that Bin Laden wanted and Bush gladly provided.

I see Bin Laden and Bush at to ends of a religous war continuum. Both are dangerous ideologs for their respective religions...nothing short of a modern Christian Crusade vs. Islamic Jihad.

Oh, and why are we fighting? We're fighting for resources (oil) wrapped up in the covering of ideological furvor. Dangerous mix to say the least.

JB

[Jackpine Radical]

42. To say we shouldn't confront the graphic evidence of the evil

done in our names is tantamount to saying the Germans shouldn't be made to confront the realities of Auschwitz. Only by fully understanding & acknowledging can the healing process begin, not just for the Iraqis, but for us.

[MGKrebs]

43. Perhaps it's really more about timing.

Do we want those photos out in public NOW? The concentration camp photos did not come out until after the conflict. I would suppose there were rumors and defectors etc. And I think the Germans HAVE confronted their demons. Quite thoroughly, and I believe it is still in progress.

Let's imagine a world where John Kerry is now President, the UN members are collectively determining a path for Iraq, Rumsfeld and Myers are removed from any power or authority. Wouldn't that be a much better frame of reference to deal with the ramifications of these going public?

We no longer shoot people down in the street as "instant justice". We allow a period of time to pass so that our initial emotional state does not overwhelm our sense of reason. The evidence isn't going anywhere. (?)

[thebigidea]

45. "The concentration camp photos did not come out until after the conflict."

So, uh - you think that was for the best? You don't think the pictures should've come out DURING the conflict?

Maybe we would've DONE SOMETHING SOONER...

[MGKrebs]

47. Hey, someone else was trying to compare this to Auschwitz, not me!

I was just pointing out what I perceived as a flaw in that argument.

[freeforall]

30. Agreed. I think the public needs to see the full extent

of the abuse. Bushco needs to be seen by the American people for the evil empire it is.

The only way to remove any public support from these lying neocons is to show Americans what their "selection" of this government has meant.

And then they can decide what to do about it in November.

[thebaghwan]

33. I agree with you absolutely! We need to be much more aggressive. The

repukes are very, very good at this. Some may say that we fall to the level of the repukes, I guess my only reply is; consider the consequences. Could we as a people withstand and survive four more years of Bush? I think we need to have a National Strike or something. We are going to be in a bad way in November if at least Rumsfield does not resign over these abuses.

[candy331]

39. Perhaps the GOD that Bush claims is speaking to him

is the force behind it after all, a God who can set up and a God who can also take down. Bush should have read his Bible and learned this especially the book of Daniel where the mighty King Nebuchadnezzar was taken down and became as one of the animals grazing for 7 long years with them. I Don't say ones who don't believe in the God/Bible has to accept this but for those who do it is very plausible.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

48. Are you saying that a beneficent god willed the torture of human beings?

If so, count me out of that religion.

Bush is delusional, no matter what god he professes to worship. Because it's not about his god, but more about he narcissistic messianic belief that "he" is chosen by a higher power to lead the world. He's bordering on dictator.

JB

[Karenina]

36. Anyone remember the

Starr Report? Dumped on-line before Congress EVEN READ IT? Hmmmm.

[jasonjay]

37. anyone know any other websites?

the best place i know to find pictures are message boards just like this one. But www.foshoflash.com has some rare ones i haven't seen before. He usually post them quick.

[DrWeird]

38. Contact the Washington Post. They have them.

They've described the pictures but have chosen not to publish them (yet).

[VolcanoJen]

44. The horse is already out of the barn.

I imagine the photos and videos will emerge by mid-week, as long as the Pentagon continues to stall.

Of all people, Sen. Lindsey Graham insisted on MTP this morning that it is time to blast this wide open and show the American people all of the information and evidence, to prove to the world that we handle our issues in an open and free manner. He says he thinks Congress and the American people should see the video and photos at the same time.

[emc]

46. reality TV

The white house is saving the pics so that they can sell them for a new pilot TV program-----you know, reality TV----I haven't come up with a title for the show yet-----Maybe something catchy like, Win a trip to paradise, torture an evil doer- and the winning prize is a signed picture of our illustrious grinning idiot president and the winner, side by side......
I am about to give up on this country---I don't recognize it anymore and mostly the people who support this moron in the white house

[theoceansnerves]

50. new one out today

supposedly part of a series, the pictures that come later show him bloody and lying on the ground.

[Shadder]

52. They must come out.

Forgetting the political questions (which in my opinion really should not play a part in it at all) it seems that the world is demanding that they come out. No one is required to look at them if they do not want to, but the option must be on the table for all. To do otherwise would make it look (and rightly so) as nothing more than a cover up. This is something that we as a nation must own up to and deal with.