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King_Crimson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:18 AM
Original message
What if the Armed Forces decide they've had enough...
Does anyone think it possible that these young people are gonna get fed up with this shit? Is mutiny out of the question?
I spent 6 years in the United States Air Force at the tail end of the Viet Nam conflict and during the Beirut fiasco. Back then we would often talk about the government doing the "right thing." Always had to be careful of what you said and if anyone you didn't trust may be within hearing range. It was always the seasoned, older officers and NCO's who would always try to keep your mindset geared toward what the CEO of your country wanted. What if...though...an uprising by the military would occur? I say that would be the absolute end of the neo-cons and their PNAC plan!
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Centurions are not happy.
Army Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack Jr., the commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, who spent much of the year in western Iraq, said he believes that at the tactical level at which fighting occurs, the U.S. military is still winning. But when asked whether he believes the United States is losing, he said, "I think strategically, we are."

That's the serving, not retired commander of an elite unit of the Regular Army, ending his career, right there.
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King_Crimson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Tommy Franks made the remark..
This past January in the "world renowned "Cigar Afficianado" magazine that in the event of another attack on the US...the Constitution would be suspended! That is something unheard of and even the thought of it should be enough to keep every American leery!
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Ann Arbor Dem Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. If there is another attack before November...
I think that Bush would try to suspend the election.
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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. If that happens . . .
. . . I'm personally going to Washington DC. Armed.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Welcome to DU, Ann Arbor Dem!
good to have you with us :toast:
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Ann Arbor Dem Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks for the welcome!
I'm glad to be here!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I think General Franks was sending *Bush a warning
That IF there is another "terrorist" attack, not only will the Constitution be suspended, but the * Cabal will be escorted out of their offices under military arrest. If the Constitution is suspended, then there IS no Office of President--and they sure as hell don't want him as CnC.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think he was sending us a warning ...
Giving us a hint of what he fears.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Did you see this story in the WP?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11227-2004May8.html

<snip> Some officers say the place to begin restructuring U.S. policy is by ousting Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, whom they see as responsible for a series of strategic and tactical blunders over the past year. Several of those interviewed said a profound anger is building within the Army at Rumsfeld and those around him.

A senior general at the Pentagon said he believes the United States is already on the road to defeat. "It is doubtful we can go on much longer like this," he said. "The American people may not stand for it -- and they should not."


sounds to me like some of the brass might be getting tired of their troops being held hostage in an illegitament war so the US Treasury can send $$ to neocon cronies.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. This part is also good...
" Tolerance of the situation in Iraq also appears to be declining within the U.S. military. Especially among career Army officers, an extraordinary anger is building at Rumsfeld and his top advisers.

"Like a lot of senior Army guys, I'm quite angry" with Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush administration, the young general said. He listed two reasons. "One is, I think they are going to break the Army." But what really incites him, he said, is, "I don't think they care."

Jeff Smith, a former general counsel of the CIA who has close ties to many senior officers, said, "Some of my friends in the military are exceedingly angry." In the Army, he said, "It's pretty bitter." "

Wow!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. yeah, Wow! Wonder how long before the junta realizes they only have the
power they are granted by those who really do the fighting. they have to be pretty much to the end of the envelope of acceptance for their ineptitude and/or subversion.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Yep. Heck, if * "stays the course"...
... a military coup in this country wouldn't be out of the question. We already have one retired general who's suggested martial law should we be hit with another large-scale terrorist attack.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's already in motion
riverwalker (406 posts)
Fri May-07-04 07:46 PM
Original message
JAG: it reaches Douglas Feith

Torture Sanctioned by Pentagon

Bar Association: Torture Sanctioned by Pentagon Appointees
Salon is reporting that a report compiled by the Committee on International Law of the New York City Bar Association has found that the American military's treatment of detainees and prisoners of war in Afghanistan, Cuba and Iraq violates international law — and the compilers of the report say that the techniques employed by interrogators at prisons such as Abu Ghraib were "sanctioned by Pentagon political appointees."

Joe Conason of Salon reports that Scott Horton, a partner at Patterson, Belknap, Webb and Tyler and chair of the Committee on International Law was told by "senior" members of the Judge Advocate General Corps that high ranking political appointees were behind the abuse. Says Conason:

http://www.warblogging.com/


    Lack of protection

    <snip>

    Indeed, Horton says that the JAG officers specifically warned him that Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith,one of the most powerful political appointees in the Pentagon, had significantly weakened the military's rules and regulations governing prisoners of war. The officers told Horton that Feith and the Defense Department's general counsel, William J. Haynes II, were creating "an atmosphere of legal ambiguity" that would allow mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.


    Douglas Feith, President Bush's Undersecretary of Defense for Policy — and number three man at the Pentagon — reportedly summed up Protocol One of the Geneva Conventions of 1977 as "law in the service of terrorism".

    In the past, Conason writes, all interrogations conducted by military personnel were monitored by a member of the Judge Advocate General corps from behind a two-way mirror. All interrogations were monitored, and the JAG officer was "emplowered to stop any misconduct". But senior Pentagon officials removed that requirement. :wow: Not only did JAG officers no longer monitor interrogations, but private military contractors were allowed to conduct interrogations.

    <snip>

    After hearing the complaints of the JAG officers, Horton and his bar colleagues wrote to Haynes and the CIA's general counsel in an effort to clarify U.S. policy on the treatment and interrogation of detainees. Those inquiries, he recalls, "were met with a firm brushoff. We then turned to senators who had raised the issue previously, and assisted their staff in pursuing the issue directly with the Pentagon. These inquiries met with a similar brushoff." The Bush administration wanted no meddling by human rights lawyers as it brought democracy and human rights to the benighted region.

    <snip>

    Horton says that career military officers at the Pentagon were "greatly upset" by what they regarded as the deliberate destruction of traditions and methods that have long protected soldiers as well as civilians. Those officers, and others who may have evidence to offer, are obviously reluctant to step forward and speak because they fear reprisal from the Pentagon and the White House. They have been instructed not to talk to anyone about these issues. It is to be hoped that in the investigations to come -- whether or not Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld and Undersecretary Feith keep their jobs -- those conscientious officers will be able to tell what they know about the decisions that led to this national disaster.


    <snip>

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/05/07/rights/index.html


They're going down. The entire house of cards is CRASHING down.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. You could be right about this.
I certainly HOPE you are right about this!

The USA needs to get its house in order FAST--and if that means militarily rounding up these criminals and marching their asses to Levenworth, I'm all for it.
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