Some Insane Reasoning For Insane Actions In An Insane World...

[althecat]

I have just done a search of GD and can find no reference to this, though similar subject matter has been covered in some other posts... I apologise if this is a dupe...

The S&M War
Are the Abu Ghraib photos 'wanton' acts of deranged individuals – or the very latest in 'black propaganda'?

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2490

This is a very interesting analysis from Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com... Essentially he argues that there is a strong case for considering that far from being an aberration or the work of a few deranged individuals there is strong evidence that what happened in Abu Ghraib was in fact deliberate military policy. His is a well sourced (with links) and well argued piece... for those who cannot bother to follow the link here is a synopsis.

Firstly he quotes some direct evidence that the photos were deliberately taken at the orders of military intelligence.

"Lawyers representing two of the accused soldiers, and some soldiers' relatives, have said the pictures were ordered up by military intelligence officials who were trying to humiliate the detainees and coerce other prisoners into cooperating.

"'It is clear that the intelligence community dictated that these photographs be taken,' said Guy L. Womack, a Houston lawyer representing Spec. Charles A. Graner Jr., 35, one of the soldiers charged.

"The father of another soldier facing charges, Spec. Jeremy C. Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., also said his son was following orders. 'He was asked to take pictures, and he did what he was told,' Daniel Sivits said in a telephone interview last week."

Then he looks at the reason why they might do this. In short, humiliation for humiliations sake. Raimondo canvases the evidence in considerbale detail but to cut to the chase of the argument...

What is undoubtedly a black mark on the reputation of the American military, and on this administration's ability to know and control what's occurring on the ground in Iraq, looks to me very much like a black propaganda campaign designed to demoralize not only Iraqis but the entire Arab world. One major neoconservative talking point in the run-up to war was that the Arabs only understand the language of power: you can't negotiate or reason with them, you have to conquer them – and, once conquered, they have to be kept down. This is precisely the methodology used by the Israelis on their Palestinian helots, and in my last column I detailed some evidence that the torturers of Abu Ghraib may had training and other help from Israeli "advisors."

The conception of shame as a key element of Arab warfare was explored in a paper on "the Arab mind," by David Leo Gutmann, emeritus professor of Psychology and Behavioral Sciences at Northwestern University Medical School, in Chicago, purporting to describe "Arab psychology" – just as a Nazi theoretician might explore "Jewish psychology." Writes Gutmann:

"The traditional Bedouin created a nearly pure ''Shame'' culture, whose goal was to avoid humiliation, and to acquire sharraf – honor. Thus, the goal of the Bedouin raid is not to finally win a war, for such inter-tribal conflict is part of the honorable way of life, and should never really end. The essential goals of the raid are to take wealth – not only in goods, but also in honor - and to impose shame on the enemy. Any opponent worth fighting is by definition honorable, and pieces of his honor can be ripped from him in a successful raid, to be replaced by figments of the attacker's shame. The successful attacker has 'exported' some personal shame to the enemy, and the enemy's lost honor has been added to the raider's store."

A "calculus of shame" and sharraf seems to be at work in this business of the photos: by projecting these shameful images of powerless, feminized Arab men, the balance of sharraf tips in favor of the counterinsurgency. As Gutmann theorizes:

"This calculus of shame and sharraf is an important element in all Arab warfare, whether waged by Saddam Hussein, Yasir Arafat, or a Bedouin sheik. In particular, that same dynamic drives the Arab preference for irregular over conventional war. Irregular tactics - spiced with Terror – have on occasion defeated regular armies; but win, lose, or draw in the military sense, terror tactics can be a far more efficient means of meeting psychological goals - i.e., shedding shame and capturing honor - than all-out war."

Food for thought...

Personally I am inclined to think that this sort of military doctrine fits very well with the overall stance of US global force projection, namely: anyone that messes with us gets messed with back times 100 fold.

This brand of overwhelming force is available and will be used rhetoric should be extremely familiar to everybody who watches US news reports. What we have here is a weird psychological varient on the theme. Not only are we the baddest asses in the field, we are also the sickest... either way it is all about creating fear.

Finally, for those who remain surprised that these things are happening circa 2004.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/04/cf.opinion.torture/

In March 2003 and earlier in the wake of 9/11 there was a debate on this subject. Several polls were conducted.... Americans as I recall were clearly in favour of torture being used where it would prevent attacks on innocent civilians.

al

[nolabels]

1. That don't mean I will endorse it

I think there must be some very meticulous house cleaning that needs to be done here in the US. We know how and why they operate like they do so do the people in the rest of the world. The ones that have been kept blind of it is the general population of the US.

With all the idle time that is being created between lay offs, slow work and shorter working hours, some in US are wising up. People are getting information from other sources now. As the general population see they have been lied to, the amount of more informed people will grow.

You must remember they need a quite large and repugnant enemy to keep a war effort going. Lately, in some ways, it sounds like the endless supply of viable enemies is drying up for them.

[althecat]

4. Reminds me of a famous quote... not sure who said it....

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

[nolabels]

9. Really though there is no way this many people could be that stupid

Group think ? Cult? What ever they were doing you got to figure they really didn't want to control the political structure of the country, they did too many back wards things for that to be the idea. They seem to be trying to make it a giant Lebanon.

Sure they kicked few people tales, but not to secure the country, just humiliate exactly like you said. Making an example, trying to induce fear and recriminations through Chaos and hardship. Sowing seeds of division with uneven handed justice. The trick is not to listen what they say, but watch what they are doing and observe the results. A lot of people have been saying this, I am just acting as part of the echo chamber

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1083180336168&p=1012571727162
Bush runs out of options as chaos deepens
By Guy Dinmore
Published: May 7 2004 5:00 | Last Updated: May 7 2004 5:00

Iraq's deepening crisis has left the Bush administration with few options, and although the US has entrusted the United Nations with the task of finding a way towards political stability and elections, officials and analysts close to the White House admit that hopes of success are receding fast.

Insiders describe a lack of direction and a prevailing sense of gloom and desperation in the administration. This gloom has only been intensified by the exposure of torture and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

Analysts point to an absence of clearcut strategy that has seen repeated personnel changes and policy reversals resulting from continuous battles between the State Department and the Pentagon. The White House national security advisers are blamed for not resolving the interagency battles.

This "dysfunctional" administration as described by Robert Kagan, a prominent foreign policy thinker, is mirrored by an increasingly public battle of recriminations among President George W. Bush's conservative supporters.

While Lakhdar Brahimi, the UN special envoy, may be able to put together a weak caretaker government with limited authority by the June 30 target date set for the handover of sovereignty, many in the administration fear violence will derail UN-supervised elections set for January 2005.
(snip)

[althecat]

11. I.E. Bush et al are getting emselves boxed into a corner deliberately?

There has always been a group of people who have argued that the purpose of the ME and U.S. external strategy was internal.. that is to create the conditions to justify internal repression. The return of the draft the elimination of civil and political rights.

What is going on in Iraq - and indeed in the socalled war on terror generally - looks extremely like a deliberate attempt to stir up a wasps nest.

Truly, U.S. policy is increasingly looking as though it makes no sense at all. It is not making the world safer nor is it making the US safer. All it is doing is making a very dangerous bunch of people - religious extremists (of all walks of life, Christian, Islamic and Jewish) increasingly popular.

There are others of course who argue that it is all about hastening armageddon and the second coming. I tend to discount that theory on the basis that even * must be able to realise that when the King returns *'s sorry ass will be one the first to get harvested.

:)

[nolabels]

12. I don't know if either or any scenario could be any good

Even the one of little boys playing with fire because it made them feel big (this while they burnt their own families house down)

"If you think that your belief is based upon reason, you will support it by argument and will abandon it if the argument goes against you. But if your belief is based on faith, you will realize that argument is useless and will result to force either in the form of persecution or by stunting and distorting the minds of the young in what is called 'education'. -Bertrand Russell"

http://www.miniluv.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=471

[bemildred]

10. That quote is from Pogo. nt

[loftycity]

2. Here is another link - The press has to connects the dots on this story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11163-2004May8.html

[althecat]

5. Interesting report & consistent with Raimondo's theory

The new poster boy for abuse..
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I11355-2004May08L

While this article contains lots of facts the writer appears to have bent over backwards not to interpret them.

In general though they are completely consistent with the theory in Raimondo's article.

Questions this article raises for me include:
- What has happened at Gitmo? The boss of Gitmo seems to have set the rules for Iraq.
- Given that once they followed Miller's instructions abuse immediately began at Abu Ghraib, who had the bright idea to appoint the architect of the abuse as the boss of all iraqi prisons?

Seems to me that all this evidence is consistent with a high up order to condone or tolerate violence and torture in detention facilities in Iraq.

[althecat]

6. I'd say Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller is about to get scapegoated

[loftycity]

8. They do eat their own..good.

[loftycity]

7. It falls into place and makes more sense why this happened.

The Cabal would love to have us to think that it was just a few bad apples. Then they can keep right on with what they are doing.
Explains why they are going to keep the prison up and running. It should of been torn down if we geniunely wanted to show the Iraqi's that we were truly horrifed.





edit: spell

[bemildred]

3. Not buying it, I don't care what lame, racist rationalizations they had. n