Well, I am officially an outcast in my neighborhood.......

[nomaco-10]

I was invited to a grill out by a neighbor and not me, but another neighbor started a conversation about how she wished bush would "get airborne in a helicopter and get "dropped off in the ocean" in her own words. I then proceeded to say that the current pictures were only the tip of the iceberg and that video would soon be coming out that showed rape and murder much like a snuff movie that was taken by our own troops for their viewing pleasure at the Abu Graib prison.

I was yelled at and told my company was anti-american and I was out of line in my remarks. I left immediately and will never try to be apart of this neighborhood clique again.

It is more apparent than ever that this country is fucked up and split right down the middle thanks to goober bush and company. For god's sake the polls show that only three in ten americans want Rumsfeld to resign.

We're in serious trouble people.

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. I dont think its a good idea to let politics interfere with your..

personal life.

I would have just enjoyed the barbeque and once you got to know them a little better, you could try to offer info.

Now you will have no influence on their opinions and you sort of took yourself out of the loop. I understand that you have to speak your mind, but sometimes you have to pick your battles.

I've been through the same crap...

[Cleita]

5. It's so divisive these days, you can't even cave in a bit

to lead them out of the morass. It's truly black and white these days. I don't talk politics anymore with anyone unless we are on the same page. That's how bad it's become.

[nonconformist]

37. I agree, that's how I feel too

We're a nation divided, no doubt about that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. I strongly disagree. It's time we all stood up to these rightwingers...

...and argued toe-to-toe...they would do it to us in a heartbeat.

[Lorien]

44. AMEN Media_Lies_Daily!

if we don't use our voices now, we won't have the ability to in the future. Don't back down, don't play nice; they haven't, and they are winning.

[juajen]

49. I totally agree

I heard about Clinton daily, ad naseum, now, if I bring up a point that disputes anything my neocon friends and relatives can't refute, they give me the same answer, i.e., "I don't want to argue with you about it". This makes me furious. I don't expect them to agree with me, but I hate to be cut off from a discussion by this statement.

I don't believe you can remain friends without being able to discuss what's going on in this country today. I have almost stopped talking to my neocon relatives. A couple of them are pugs, but you can discuss things with them and they don't get bent out of shape; others, can just go to hell. My opinions matter and, for the most part, the ones that try to shut you down don't have a clue what they are talking about. The more intelligent ones do listen, even if they can't always agree with you.

I believe that feelings are so strong, that we as a country are more divided than ever before. What a *ing uniter * is!!!

[krkaufman]

53. Agreed.

Short of fisticuffs, of course.

I certainly will no longer sit there and take someone YELLING at me. First thing, is to question the need for excessive violence, and then ask them why it's un-American to want to treat other humans with respect -- and not murder, rape and torture them. (With a genuinely curious tone.)

Example... Some old acquaintance occasionally emails jokes out to a distribution list (with no specific demographic). Just last week, he sends out an email entitled "Last night comedians on the election." (emphasis mine) However, it wasn't about the "election", 'cause that would indicate a broad spectrum of jokes; it was 20 or so different slams/slurs against Kerry by the various late night hosts -- with nary a one about Bush.

I quickly replied (to "ALL", since the dooface cluelessly includes all the email addresses in the CC field, rather than BCC), and sent a good anti-Chimp joke and 4 or 5 political cartoons (including the "Il Doofus" one).

I expect I may be on one fewer distribution list, now.

[nagbacalan]

48. I go with the 1847 words of TheodoreParker

"If my country is in the wrong and I know it and hold my peace, then I am guilty of treason-moral treason."

[nostamj]

2. denial is very stressful these days

had they run out of kool-aid so early in the party?

[madmax]

3. You said it,

we're in deep doo doo. A lot of people either can't face the fact that this administration is screwing us to the nth degree both here and abroad or they've been seriously brain washed.

[Kanary]

4. As one who's used to being an "outcast"

welcome to the club.

As for "advice" that you shouldn't speak your mind........ that's an individual decision, and there isn't a clear-cut right or wrong. Some of us just can't pretend for very long, especially when all hell is breaking loose like it is now.

Also, sounds like, from the way you describe it, that someone else actually started the conversation down that road, and it doesn't sound like you said anything at all inflammatory.

You did what seemed best to you at the time. :shrug:

Some of us are not able to keep swallowing crap as well as others.

Kanary

[bleedingheart]

6. I have a neighbor that purposely goads me into arguments and then

ends up being nice later....all because no one else talks to her...can't imagaine while.. :eyes:

Everyone in my neighborhood knows I am the Democratic Committeewoman for my precinct...so most know where I stand.

[drfemoe]

7. I declined Mother's Day Lunch

date with certain family members. I cannot bear to be around pro-whoosh*ers right now. I just won't. They can live in their little dream world without my company.

edit to add: I feel like wearing sack cloth and ashes, not going out to eat at a fancy restaurant.

[zbdent]

19. Hmm, Pro-Whoosh - I like that image

Accompany that with the hand gesture "over my head" when referring to somebody who had the pre-requisite lobotomy.

"Yeah, he's Pro-Whoosh." (gesture).

[drfemoe]

27. Yes, thank you ..

that's it exactly.

whoosh* *the sound of information flying over one's head ..
B*sh is the poster boy for "over my head, dude"... whoosh*

[Proud_Lefty]

8. The worst part is that

Bush's most loyal supporters are the ones that not want to know anything about government, politics or anything else. They just feel good about Bush's appearance over Kerry's. How can you argue with someone who refuses to know or learn anything about anything? And it works for Bush. Maybe they identify with each other???

[loftycity]

23. You are right-ask a freeper about the repulican platform?? duh

They just stare at you. Tell them to read the republican platform and skip over to the PNAC while they're at it. Then they can tell you what they know.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. Good for you to try. I live in a Repub area and talk about it constantly.

I talk about it at the pool at my condos, at parties, at the store, in the jacuzzi. Talked about on a date once and the guy left.

The people at my Condo complex all still speak to me and are actually very friendly. At Thanksgiving, I had dinner with 12 Repubs and "jousted" with all of them. And you know something - instead of them being angry every person at the table was smiling at me and looking at me with admiration because I had facts and becasue I guess they must have admired my courage and gumption. These were all pretty educated people though.

I make it my mission in life to do this becasue this election is too important. I want to do everything I possibly can to help us win it. I've only had 4 or 5 people (out of about 150) get mad and about 10 changed the subject. One of my friends boyfriends got really angry at me - but the next time I saw him - we joked around about it.

I find that if you keep the criticism constructive and quote facts(instead of saying "Bush is a moron," I pick their brain to see what their pet peeves are and what they have to say about certain things and then swoop in with a few facts).

I've convinced several people to come to the other side and I've also convinced a few not to vote for Bush at least. I've also given plenty of Dems some good talking points.

[nomaco-10]

10. I have kept my tongue in the past, but I'm done......

with these morons. The same woman that threw a fit was the same person that said the deaths by errant bombs that killed 16 Afghanistan children a few months ago was acceptable collateral damage because these children were the future bombers of more 9-11's.

I'm done with these assholes, and those that don't speak up and speak out are just as guilty in my opinion.

It's time to start picking your friends more wisely.

[Rowdyboy]

Just curious, what part of the country do you call home....

I can't believe how incredibly rude that moron was, nor that no one else would stand up for you. What assholes.

[annagull]

13. Bleech, sounds like you could find a better bar-b-que

I'm glad you told it like it was--maybe you should have your own bar-b-que and invite the lady who said shrub should be dropped over the ocean and a few of the others who agreed. Just because they may not have said anything at the time doesn't mean they aren't on your side. Sometimes it takes me a little while to react to something unexpected, too.

[LoZoccolo]

18. Good that you're taking a stand.

:toast:

[shance]

50. Exactly, coming from an ex-Republican, you my friend are planting a seed

that inspires thought and critical thinking which this country MUST INSTIGATE if we are going to survive.

KUDOS TO YOU!!

Keep talking as intelligently, compassionately and honestly so that others will think and question the events taking place. Its all about honesty and the truth and confronting peoples addiction to monetary success versus the overall highest good for the planet.

You are doing the right thing. Speaking your truth is ALWAYS the right and correct thing, whether or not people get it, they will appreciate your alternative opinion in the long run. If they care for their kids and grand children, they will begin to get the truth of what is taking place in this nation.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

22. I've had people get mad at me -but they forget all about it the next time

I see them. I try to keep the whole thing humorous and non-threatening. I have Repub neighbors who I "tease" about being Bush fans all of the time and they've gotten to the point where they know I'm going to give them crap about it. They still invite me over all the time for dinner. I ask them every time I see them if they're still voting for Bush and the last time I brought up Bush the woman said "It wouldn't kill me if Kerry were to win."

Another neighbor told me he's Republican and I told him I guess I'd have to let the air out of his tires on election day. He told me that he wasn't sure if he was going to vote for Bush and then proceded to "rip" up Bush. I think hearing me talk about it made him realize that he has doubts about Bush and that it's "ok" to vote for Kerry.

Since I've been surrounded by Repubs my whole life - I've learned to live with it. If I didn't socialize with Repubs I'd honestly have about 5 friends in town. I've found I've gotten a lot of them to think about things - and I changed some of their opinions. Ya gotta slowly wear them down sometimes.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. What does she suggest? Genocide? What an ass.

How about you tell her that her son/daughter might possibly be a murderer and you'd like to take care of that? Grrrrrr. How utterly stupid, how utterly blind.

Good on you! You're invited to our next BBQ.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. That's exactly where I am these days. If they don't like what I say...

...they can stop asking me questions. Fuck'em.

[squidbro]

11. We are in serious trouble

I share your pain.

As one who lives in a very conservative rural area, my own opinions are most unwelcome much of the time.

I too am flabbergasted by those who would be willingly to keep themselves blind, following leadership with no ethical bearing. All because Bush is "pro-life".

I guess the life of the unborn is worth more than the lives of bonafide living children and adults who have been tortured at the hands of our military.

Amazing. Just amazing.

I fear for the future of our nation.

[question everything]

12. Found this letter in the Press Enterprise (CA)

Liberals on campus? Of course, because they think

I read with incredulity the panic-filled news analysis claiming that university campuses are teeming with liberal professors (The Press-Enterprise, May 2). As a retired professor from the Cal State University system, I agree that "liberals" dominate most university faculties.

First of all, the term "liberal" seems to have taken on the same connotation as "communist" in the 1950s and early 1960s. The label "conservative," too, has taken on a new life and no longer evokes intellectuals such as William F. Buckley Jr. and Barry Goldwater.

Reasoning and thinking are skills found in properly educated people, whether they are liberal, conservative or middle-of-the-roaders.

Such individuals research and consider before making decisions on issues.

The common connotations of liberal and conservative have changed radically. Simply said, conservatives today are loyal, flag-waving supporters of the Bush administration and all its actions and policies. Those who disagree are dirty, disloyal, unpatriotic liberals.

This stance is causing quite a bit of confusion among intellectuals. Old-definition conservatives who do not back the present administration find themselves grouped with unpatriotic liberals. These conservatives have no idea how this happened. On the other hand, we liberals who have been teachers and have taken active parts in our government and its policies are also deemed unpatriotic. This seems kind of strange to me.

I hate the blanket condemnation of dissenters: when they were called communists and put on black lists and persecuted; when we were called freaks for opposing the Vietnam conflict and put on enemies' lists; and now when we are called "liberals" because we oppose Bush's crooked policies and have to worry about homeland security measures.

I'm beginning to wonder what is happening to the First Amendment and the Constitution in general.

No matter the guise, name-calling is a form of unpatriotic propaganda used to take the place of reason. That's a label that can be applied "liberally."

So back to the college campuses, people who have doctorates have been trained to reason, and in this day and time that has come to mean liberal. Yipes! Neoconservatives may find educating their children may expose them to new methods of thinking contrary to their beliefs.

But perish the thought: Various religious denominations maintain colleges that don't even teach evolution or any opposing theories but their own.

Send them there.

BARBARA PUGH
Mira Loma

http://www.pe.com/localnews/opinion/letters/stories/PE_OpEd_Opinion_op_07_letters.57496.html

[Maat]

26. Thanks, Professor Pugh. I agee.

Take care!

Dawn "LawStudentMom" Brosius
(Law Class June 2004)
Murrieta, Ca.

[drfemoe]

14. Also want to say to you ..

I'm sorry that happened. I don't really get why they were upset with you. Maybe bashing whoosh is okay, but they took your comments to be anti-military :shrug: ?

I hope things work out between you all. People don't react like that unless their emotions are on edge to begin with.

[othermeans]

20. I think it is because he was right

When the servicemen came home from Vietnam they were treated, well, less cordially than the expected. After awhile America began to feel a collective guilt for they way they treated them. So the pendulum swung back the other way this time.

But I think the reason he was attacked was because this person had no cogent argument to refute what he had said. It really is a shame that we can't come together as Americans express our political views without rancor. It would seem to be the best way to solve our nation's problems.

[drfemoe]

21. Since hearing about the yet-to-be-released

pictures, I really have had no desire to see them. I DID want to know the contents. Some of that has been explained. But after hearing WAY too many people discount what we've seen so far as "abuse" or "hazing", I DO want the rest of them out there. Obviously some people need more convincing.

And, yes, you're right about the reaction. The entire world is in emotional crisis.

[nonconformist]

35. The sad reality is we are a nation of news snippets and photo captions

If there isn't a picture of it being shown repeatedly on the news, it doesn't exist in some people's world.

There are only two things that get attention - sex scandals and scandals/tragedies caught on tape.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

24. That's when I find that people get angry - when they have NOTHING to

back it up. The ones who have a brain aren't so threatened by it.

[indigobusiness]

15. Religion and politics

don't go with barbeque.



Tell your bbq buddy to read The Sludge Report...then get back to you.

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

[Career Prole]

16. I can't sympathize...

...I sure wish I had a neighbor who said bush* should be tossed in the ocean.
Frankly, I'm envious as hell that you've got at least one neighbor who doesn't like bush*!

[LoZoccolo]

17. Fuck 'em then.

What happened to the neighbor that said the thing about the helicopter? That's a lot more "anti-american" than what you said.

It's kind-of good you found out about these people before you wasted any more time with them.

[rumguy]

25. What you need to do is point out that Bush is not a Christian

No Christian would say that our enemies "have no soul" or that we are on a mission to "rid the world of evil" - he's said that and it flies in the face of every tenet of Christianity.

[BlueStateGirl]

29. I have started asking customers who support the war "So, when

are you shipping out?" Or if they have children I ask if they have encouraged them to enlist.

I work in bar, and people are always eager to share their opinions with a captive listener. (Bartender, waitress).
Everyone I work with is very Liberal. Most of the customers are as well. But I do get my fair share of knuckle dragging Repubs.

[othermeans]

30. I think this quote will make you feel better

"A state that supresses all freedom of speech, and which by imposing the most terrible punishments, treats each and every attempt at criticism, however morally justified, and every suggestion for improvement as plotting to high treason, is a state that breaks an unwritten law."
- Kurt Huber , killed by the Nazis in 1943.

I actually found this quote while reading some other postings on DU. I hate to say it but I didn't even know who Kurt Huber was. He was one of the members of the White Rose underground that fought the Nazis inside Germany.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

31. Screw 'em

if their souls are that ugly, then it's a good thing you got a look at their true colors early on.

I have some neighbors who WERE pro-Chucklenuts but are sliding off that bandwagon of dupes quickly.

I have some other neighbors who have decided to dig in. It wouldn't matter if Fux News broadcast footage of Chucklenuts on the White House lawn wearing nothing but a pink tutu and eating toddler fingers, they'd still keep their bumper stickers for him on their cars. The cool thing is, someone STOLE the bush-cheney sign out of their front yard! (I live in Texas!!!) No sign of it, just GONE. (I swear I didn't do it, I don't stoop that low...) They were PISSED. They haven't replaced it.

They all know how my husband and I feel. We've had some pretty heated arguments. But I can't imagine even the die-hard bush dupes I know yelling at me and kicking me out. They did you a favor. You were causing them a VERY painful case of cognitive dissonance, so in order to resolve it, they had to get rid of you.

People like that are idjits. They couldn't handle hearing that more pics and video are coming out? That's been reported all over the place, first reported by Rummy himself. Why did that freak them out so? Their Great And Fearful Leader looking bad?

Mwahahahahaha!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. There's a lot of people out there who are starting to have doubts.

And many times you don't have to do much to "persuade" them. I live in Naples Florida - where 60% of the people voted Bush in 2000 and a lot of people are really p.o.'d at BushCo. I've found dozens of people who are "right on the edge." Don't give up people.

Remember what Patrick Henry said "I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

I like to think that I would fight to my death for what is right. What's a few dirty looks? It ain't going to kill you.

I'm the only Dem in my family and they've all been pissed at me at one time or another but they all get over it. I have yet to find anyone who's remained pissed at me. If they are - fuck them! You can't live your life worrying about what other people think.

I've found that people respect me for speaking out.

[corporatewhore]

33. heh i live in a mainly black and latino neighborhood

its nice to hear bush being insulted in two languages!!!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

34. Yep

what's funny is, once my husband and I started speaking out about bush (over a YEAR ago), several of my other neighbors started to, too (we all socialize together, about seven houses). The ONE family who is pro-bush (well really fence sitters now) assumed they were surrounded by other bush supporters and actually seemed HURT to discover they weren't.

One time I was talking to the fence sitting kinda pro-bush neighbor and politics came up and a woman who lives across the street was standing there talking with us (she's from Mexico) and my neighbor looked sort of sheepish and apologetic at her and pointed to me and said "she's against bush" as if it were some sort of scarlet letter. My Mexican neighbor laughed and said "so am I!" then started to describe bush in VERY unflattering terms.

Another time a neighbor boy, who is 15 was talking to us and he saw my Time magazine with bush on the front, pointed to it and said "He's a douche bag" I nearly choked on my drink. The kinda pro bush neighbor's eyes bugged out and she half-kiddingly reprimanded him and said "he's our PRESIDENT" and he laughed and said "he's not MY president! He can kiss my BUTT!" I was laughing so hard, my stomach hurt. I found out later his parents feel the same way.

Whooo--hoooo!!! And yet another family were kind of closet Dems until they heard me and my husband talking politics and now they've come out of the closet. My poor poor kinda pro bush neighbors are feeling surrounded in their suburban Texas neighborhood by people who feel bush is a douche bag!

[krkaufman]

54. Now THAT was funny. n/t

[Ksec]

36. sheep

You know I have signs up in my yard and on my car. I could gave a rats ass whether my neighbors approve. They can kiss my white Liberal ass if they dont like it.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

38. That's EXACTLY how I feel

One neighbor joked about stealing my signs (they are taped inside my front windows, though) and taking the stickers off my car and I immediately told him I would NEVER do such a thing to him. He sheepishly admitted he wouldn't really do that. I said, "Then don't JOKE about it."

Another time, he joked about putting a bush sign in my yard. He was laughing har har har and I got REAL serious and said "You put a sign for that MOTHERFUCKER in my yard and YOU will NEVER forget it." I don't usually use language like that in real life and he was taken aback and said "hey hey just kidding!" I again told him not to even joke about that.

I don't think he realized the extent of my feelings about Chucklenuts Junior until that moment.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. And I'll bet they respect you for it too.

They might hate you BUT they respect you.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

45. LOL! Everybody gapes at me when I drive down the street w/my Kerry

bumpsticker. The few times someone gave me a hard time in the parking lot I just said, "Where's your BUSH sticker if you think Bush is so great?" They get embarrassed and slither away. I have yet to see any Bush stickers at all (or any Kerry stickers for that matter).

[Corgigal]

39. My stepson told me a similar story today

his mother and her new found boyfriend wanted to go wave at Bush when he came through Tampa. They never gave him any money so you know they couldn't get near him. My stepson wouldn't go because he told his mother that Bush is a murderer. His mother was very upset and her boyfriend became livid. Personally I couldn't be more pleased because we chat with him all the time about world events and while he's a young man, 17 in December, it's nice to listen to his reasoning. Gives me faith in the young.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

42. Whoever acts like they are right - gets the win. If you would have stood

up to them and not backed down - you would have been ok.

If you think you are right and act like you're right with NO hesitiation - then people will often think you're right. If you say whatever you're saying in an authoritative way and don't back down, the other person will back down 99.9% of the time.

This, by the way is why Repubs beat us. They believe they're right (or convince themsleves they're right) - act like they're right and don't back down and people fall for it every time.

[Skittles]

46. f*** your neighborhood

stick with us, nomaco-10; we are the true patriots.

[SarahB]

47. I don't fit in either

Perhaps when the day comes that I can bury my brain and talk of nothing but baseball, basketball, gossip, and other assorted neighborhood drivel I'll fit in, but since that's not happening anytime soon, I just act civil and polite and be my quiet self. Whenever I talk politics, people get intimidated and shocked and have nothing to contribute usually. Then again, I'm in the wrong universe I think.

[BiggJawn]

51. At least you socialize.

I've lived in this town for 6 years now. I know ONE person well enough to have had dinner with. ReTHUGs everywhere! ReTHUG lawn signs to the North of me! ReTHUG lawn signs to the South! Freeper church across the street! People that let their dogs roam and then it's YOUR fault they ran you down on your bike beause YOU "were dressed like a faggot in them black shorts"...I have to tune in Chicago to find a radio station that doesn't air "Gush Pfleghmball"...

I haven't used my HF Ham Radio in over 3 years because I'm embarrassed to get on the air with a callsign that ID's me as an American station, and talking to my "fellow" Murkan Hams is like trying to sort through thousands of Art Bell wanna-bes...

Marginalized and Ostracized!

[Hippo_Tron]

52. I don't get it, people get so damn offended

I mean just because I disagree with people who like Bush, doesn't mean that I think they're bad people for liking him. They have a right to believe what they want to believe even if I disagree with them.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

55. If the host were the one ripping on you, I guess there wouldn't be much

choice but to leave, saying, "thanks for the wonderful evening!" on your way out. But if it was some other wingnut it would be reasonable to tell them that the last time you checked it was still America and your right to free speech hadn't YET been stripped to prevent you from responding to that woman's comment.