Is it true that the Neocon goal is mainly to destroy Mid East nations...

[DaveSZ]

...that they perceive threaten Israel?

Is it true that they are using American sons and daughters as cannon fodder for the Likud Party?

Are there any elements of truth to these allegations, or are these simply the unproven rantings of a few conspiracy theorists?

I've heard Molly Ivins even mention the neocon/Likud connections.

[movonne]

1. They are also destroying America.. and probably most of the

world.

[kalian]

2. Hmmm.....

Given that the majority of the "neocons" are of jewish descent
and have ties to Israel, it sure as heck appears that their primary
concerns are for the safety and well-being of Israel.
Strange though, there is only one muslim nation that has nukes, i.e.,
Pakistan, yet they do not have the delivery system to pose a threat
to Israel. Besides, Pakistan is a US "ally" and has been for quite
some time...
Iran, being PERSIAN, might have nukes, but this hasn't yet been
confirmed. Even if Iran had a couple of nukes...what would it gain?
I personally would like to see arab nations develope nukes since
then they could negotiate from a position of strength. Diplomacy
is only effective when backed by a readied sword and I strongly
believe that every nation has the right to self-defense. EVERY
NATION, including Israel.

Now...Israel, having an elite military AND WMDs, poses more of a
direct threat to its neighbors than ALL of the arab nations combined.
So, I wonder what "threat" these neocons see against Israel.

Then there is the talk of "Greater Israel", but that's an entirely
different story all together...

[DaveSZ]

4. I just don't understand what Israel has gained from all this

By invading Iraq, we've further inflamed Arab hatred for both Israel and the United States.

[kalian]

6. Its a very good and valid question...

and I too am looking for an answer. Unfortunately, we don't have too
many free investigative reporters running around looking into this
issue.
I would dare say that for Israel it would have two long term goals:
1) access to oil and 2) access to more water supplies...

[peacetalksforall]

7. Neither the PNACers and neo-con supporters or the Sharon group

give a damn about imflaming hatred. And there blind believers don't give a damn either.

[MrPrax]

17. Israel has gained....

from this one obvious thing...

If the world wasn't focused on US invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq, then the only thing being reported out of the ME, to the west, would be the endless slaughter of nearly 3000 Palestinians by Israel--losing this sharp focus while Israel continues to expand, while ignoring international law or a credible attempt at a 'peace' process, is a very good gain.

Keeping Arafat, the elected head of the Palestinians, prisoner and not out engaging the pulbic opinion in either Europe or the rest of the Middle East is a good gain...

Disabling a major secular power in that regional theatre like Iraq goes a long way to control an strategic military advantage over the region...Syria is now the ONLY risk militarily

Being a US ally, the oil and it's profits running through it's ports isn't a bad thing either...

A strategic compromise over autonomous US foreign policy in the region is definitely a gain...

[ancillaryidealist]

3. American Dominance

From all the research I've been doing on the neoconservative movement most specifically PNAC is that it is all about American dominance militarily and economically.

Israel is the only real American ally in the Middle East so keeping that nation safe would make logical sense in the neocon plan.

Here are some readings -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=7550
http://www.amconmag.com/01_13_03/print/cover7print.html

These articles come from several different perspectives.

[kalian]

5. America's "dominance" is pure speculation....

Military-wise...invading and occupying third and fourth rate nations
DOES NOT bestow military superiority upon the US. Let's pick a fight
against somebody our own size and then let's see how we stand...
Economically...don't get me started....

And as for Israel being an "ally", that too is pure speculation
given that Israel does ALOT of things that can indirectly place
the US in very precarious situations. We're indirectly responsible
for Israel's actions...
Kind of like a father-son relationship....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Global domination is the ultimate goal of the NeoCon PNACers.

[Bombtrack]

9. Most Neocons are Likudniks, some aren't

At least in talking about Neocons as people commonly called Neocons by the mainstream and respectable left-leaning media, as conservative media doesn't embrace the term.

Like Christopher Hitchens who is unlike most of them someone who freely admits to being a Neocon when it comes to Iraq is very sympathetic to Pallestinian causes compared to any of the GOP neocons. He continues to say that Israel/Palestine Zionism was a horrible idea and a huge mistake. That puts him with pretty much closest to Meretz which is more "pro-pallestinian" than even Labor(the main center-left) party.

Also I'm not sure Tom Friedman, another person who believes(or believed) in the Neocon philosophy on Iraq is pro-Likud. Considering his politics he's probably pro-Labor or Shuini.

Anyway people here make Neoconservatism out to be something I don't think can be so neatly presented as. It's a really vague and disagreed about label and therefor not something one here could say does or doesn't make them want to "mainly to destroy Mid East nations who threaten Israel."

[HawkerHurricane]

10. One of thier motives, yes.

By no means the only one.

The main threats to Isreal (of invasion) are the nations on the borders: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Lebanon's civil war has reduced the threat there... Jordan lacks the funds (no oil) to create a first rate army... Egypt is currently reduced to a U.S. client state...

Leaving Syria.

The Iraq invasion provides a 'jump off' point for U.S. troops to invade Syria. While PNAC's plan provides for that invasion, it's really unneeded... the threat of invasion should be enough to keep Syria from openly attacking Isreal.

The other Arab nations, while able to fund terrorists/urban guerrillas and provide troops will be unable to invade without a nation bordering Isreal to provide a jump off point. With Lebanon in choas, Jordan unwilling, Egypt bankrupt, and Syria 'boxed', there is no threat.

[Bombtrack]

13. I'd say Iran is as big a threat to Israel as any of those nations

if not the biggest. Tehran is the nerve center for the anti-Israel terrorist matrix(Hizbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad) as far as the top dog gangsters go, who work with and from the Mullahs. While Ryahd is the springboard for the Wuhabbiist terrorist matrix

[HawkerHurricane]

15. True, BUT...

The PNAC Manifesto was written when terrorism was not thought to be something that could destroy Isreal... the threat of invasion was thier great fear. Which is why the proposed bases in Iraq (for the U.S. Army and Air Force) are in the desert facing AWAY from Iran and toward Syria.

Personally, I don't see terrorism being able to destroy anyone... Unless they get a LOT of Nukes and set them off all at once, it ain't gonna happen.

[peacetalksforall]

11. The phrasing is a little off...instead

of saying that the Neocon goal is to DESTROY Mid East nations....substitute 'dominate and sublimate' Mid East nations and make sure they are not a threat to Israel and will not raise a voice as Israel spreads and will not care about the way they 'negotiate' with their neighbors.

[DaveSZ]

12. Yes

Yes I know the thread title was phrased poorly.

:P

[DaveSZ]

14. I did find this site

http://www.pnac.info/

Richard Perle Resigns From Advisory Panel
"We are now approaching a long presidential election campaign, in the course of which issues on which I have strong views will be widely discussed and debated," Perle wrote. "I would not wish those views to be attributed to you or the President at any time, and especially not during a presidential campaign."

--Richard Perle

[Toronto Ron]

16. My opinion:

It is conceivable that PNACers have Israel's interests in mind. For some, perhaps it is primary. However, the real controlling powers are the corporate oilmen overtly and covertly in power. It's all about the black gold. The oilmen don't give a rat's ass about Israel per se. PNAC merely spits out foreign policy that is compatible with the oilmen's goals, at least in the short term. In fact, I'm starting to believe that the PNACers, particularly the Jewish ones, serve as useful bogeymen to deflect attention from the oilmen. That this is working is quite evident here in DU, where so many bright people eagerly blame all our mideast-related ills on Israel.