America's Oil Addiction - FUBARed in Iraq - What Now?

[jokerman93]

We all know how and why the Iraq invasion was prosecuted:

1. America is the largest consumer of oil in the world.

2. The oil resources of the world are limited and rapidly diminishing.

3. Those who control the oil resources in the 21st century control the geopolitical landscape of the planet.

4. The Bush family and its corporate allies have designs on that control.

5. The invasion of Iraq required the manufactured consent of the American people.

6. Manufactured consent was accomplished and maintained by a complicit congress and media.

7. The revelations of torture and the endemic brutality of American military policies and strategy will ignite a shit storm that will not be stopped by Madison Avenue bullshit.

8. We cannot "win" the war.

9. The chances of establishing the neocon fantasy of an American city on the hill in Iraq are gone.

10. The cat's out of the bag.

12. We know the Bush administration has no intention of retreating from its goals.

13. We know the Bush administration is willing to use nukes. (We know man-packable nukes are in the pipeline.)

14. We have been warned that another devastating terrorist incident will certainly occur in America, only the time frame is unknown.

13. Part of the 87 billion appropriated for the war has gone into beefing up FEMA.

14. Our borders are still porous and vulnerable.

Questions for debate:

Now what?

Do we invade surrounding countries to defend the oil reserves of Iraq, now that the facade has been torn off?

Is the rest of the Muslim world going to stand by and let America proceed?

What will the neocons do now that they won't be able to manipulate public opinion as easily?

The cat's out of the bag. Do the gloves come off?

Is anything but world war inevitable in the next year or several years?

[KissMyAsscroft]

1. World War will eventually happen...

ABout 15-20 years down the road...it will hit critical mass, Iraq or not...

[Greylady]

2. The PNACers have been defeated.

The Muslim world will not allow American dominance in the Middle East. Hard to say how it will end though, if Bush insists on staying the course, world war may be the outcome.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. 2004...

Shrub steals the election again.

Early 2005-- Koch brothers, other oil companies love getting $60 a barrel for crude, thanks to increased Chinese and Indian demand and no increased supply.

Later in 2005-- mass bankruptcies from people unable to fuel delivery trucks and Hummers or heat their homes. Airlines add $100 fuel surcharges to all tickets. Dealers add $5,000 to Prius prices, and want another $2,000 cash under the table.

2006-- Saudi royal family falls, putting 12 million barrels a day in the hands of al Qaeda.

Later in 2006-- everyone in the world goes insane.

2007-- what 2007?

[whistle]

4. Yes, that is BusHitler's secret plan...

...which is not so secret. The plans exist and if these can be released like the prisoner photos then BusHitler and company can be exposed.

[NNN0LHI]

5. I think the Saudi ruling family is about to fall too

Add that into the mix. Would the USA allow that to happen. Should the US forces "retreat" to Saudi Arabia and at least hold on to that oil? I am sure there is some discussions on this subject going on somewhere right now. Where is Cheney by the way?

Don

[Wapsie B]

6. The ruling family is going to fall?

Wouldn't that be another round of bad news for the BFEE? With them being business partners of the bush family for so long, I don't think it could be good for chimpy to say the least.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Just got this off the Reuters site

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L08451847.htm

Saudi vows to hunt militants if it takes "decades"
08 May 2004 19:17:36 GMT

RIYADH, May 8 (Reuters) - Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah vowed on Saturday to hunt down militants for "decades" if necessary, and warned Saudis not to sympathise with the attackers who are bent on toppling the ruling family.

"By the will of God, we will track down these people however long it takes -- 20 years, 30 years, decades or even more," the oil-rich kingdom's de facto ruler said in remarks broadcast on Saudi state television.

"We cannot be lenient with this deviant faction," he added.

Prince Abdullah's remarks come a week after militants killed five Westerners in an unprecedented attack on a petrochemical plant in the Red Sea city of Yanbu. At least six people were also killed this month in a suicide bombing at a security headquarters in the capital Riyadh.

more

[jokerman93]

13. They are under siege

They are under siege. It's too late for me to be an alarmist, but that world war -- the one nobody's talking about -- may just be under way already.

You think Rumsfeld or Cheney would tell us?

[Wapsie B]

16. Thanks for the link.

Reading the other posts on this thread made me realize that this country was built on cheap energy. When that's no longer the case, something's got to give. And without well-developed alternative energy sources it's not going to be pretty.

[WVhill]

12. I think the bloom is off that romance.

After 9/11 things seen to be strained. the Saudis have been spending money doing the P/R thing to influence Americans. There part in 9/11 is irrefutable. Not even their manipulation of oil production will make a difference if oil traders remain convinced that the Middle East and its oil production are vulnerable. The traders will drive prices through the roof. If that happens we won't have time for any kind of transition.

Forty dollar for a barrel of oil will be wistful thinking. Better figure out what you're going to do when regular gasoline is $3.00+ per gal. The entire planet is looking into the maw of a depression. The most economically advanced countries will be hit the hardest. The main point is that it may be inevitable at this point. The latest attacks in Saudi Arabia are a bad omen.

It might be better if Bush was re-elected. When the shit hits the fan even his 49% will abandon him ushering in a new era for Democrats. If Kerry gets elected and things go south, you know the Bushites will be screaming as will the whole country. We don't have the basic skills to get by like our grandparents did. We're too long off the farm.

[jokerman93]

7. Yes, I've heard references to this

Yes, I've heard references to this somewhere too. Any links?

[starroute]

9. "The Fall of the House of Saud"

An excellent piece that appeared a year ago in the Atlantic Monthly. There's apparently a forthcoming book as well. However, it's too densely argued to pull quotes out of -- so just go read it.

http://foi.missouri.edu/evolvingissues/fallhouseofsaud.html

[rebellious woman]

18. House of Saud, excerpt ......ewwwww

<snip>

Saudi Arabia, a country built upon a schism between its fabulously wealthy royal family and the generally poor Wahhabi populace, gained extraordinary credibility by supporting bin Laden. The Saudis helped set up and fund Muslim charities, which in turn supported Bin Laden. They funded madrasa schools that taught militant extremism and then failed to provide jobs for the students when they graduated. The U.S., happy with its ability to make covert war with the Saudis and keep oil prices down, looked the other way at such impoverished conditions. The mujahadeen, however, never turned their backs to the U.S. As early as 1983, a CIA deputy was sent to Peshawar, Pakistan, to find out if they were selling weapons rather than using them in battle. A tribal chief responded quite frankly: "Yes," he said, "we are. We do sell your weapons. We are doing it for the day when your country decides to abandon us, just as you abandoned Vietnam and everyone else you deal with."

[Heyo]

8. Right now....

Oil is still cheap enough that it's not profitable for companies to create for example alternative-power personal passenger cars for example.... but gradually the price of oil will rise until comsumer demand will make it profitable to to do so. Once that begins there will be a gradual switchover, the market will go in that direction once the oil price drives it that way. I am one of the few on here who thinks that is a ways off though, I think there's still a sh*tload of 'erl' left out there....

Happy Saturday all,

Heyo

[jokerman93]

10. Happy Saturday?

That's an optimistic idea Heyo, but you seem to think this explosive situation is just going to go away somehow and we'll all be driving hydrogen cars in a few years.

No offense, but are you paying attention?

[Heyo]

21. I am....

And I've heard the alarmists.

And furthermore I think it'll be a lot longer than a few years....couple of decades maybe if not more. (Not that that is the greatest idea or anything, just calling it like I see it)

There's a lot of oil still out there.

What's wrong with wishing everyone a happy Saturday?

Heyo

[catmandu57]

14. I'm afraid that we may be there already

We may have set wwIII in motion when we invaded. Things have a nasty habit of spiraling swiftly out of control. I believe we may be lucky to retrieve the forces we have there now, if Arab anger rises to the boiling point, we don't have enough guns, bullets, bombs, to stop it.

[jokerman93]

15. I agree but

I agree but we do have nukes and the mad will to use them. I'm very concerned that now Pandora's box is open wide.

[Karenina]

17. It's called a CHAIN REACTION.

The ONLY CHANCE to mitigate it is to GET THE *MIC RAPIST out of the room.

[trof]

19. 2 words: PEAK OIL

I've been flogging this everywhere I can.
http://www.peakoil.net/Default.htm

[jokerman93]

20. Yep

Pretty clear this information is something ALL Americans needs to know.

Why the alarm isn't being raised is beyond me.