Can you still be considered a Christian

[Failure]

if you defend, apologize, or make excuses for these sick criminal bastards who tortured these people? How about if you try to justify with the "eye for an eye" mentality...


Blessed are the Peace-makers

I am the Prince of Peace

Love your neighbor


Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.


Are these Freeps saying we're a Christian nation? If so, why aren't we acting like one?

[Failure]

1. help me out here...nt

[checks-n-balances]

12. OK, I'll take the "bait" (just kidding) - I'll try to help!

I think they're excellent questions. On all those major points, they are NOT following Jesus. And they've never been taught to interpret the Bible in an intellectually honest way. They only read it literally, and think that "eye for eye" is equal to Jesus' sayings. In my interpretation, Jesus' words & actions trump anything else in scripture. That's my simplistic answer!

Here are some websites that can explain better than I can:

The Religious WRONG:
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/religiouswrong.html

Liberals Like Christ (website for the above web pages):
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm

The Village Gate forum:
http://www.therightchristians.org/?q=node/view/20

Hope that helps.

[JVS]

2. Yes, but not a very good one.

[leftofthedial]

3. apparently, you can be considered a Christian

no matter what

provided you can afford the PR campaign necessary to convince the target audience.

[Warpy]

4. They're Paulists

Paul said faith alone was sufficient for salvation, no need for all that touchy-feely stuff Jesus said.

They're also Calivinists. Calvin firmly believed that the godly were blessed on earth with riches. No kidding.

[Failure]

8. Oh no shit...I know they think they're blessed with riches...

but why do laypeople take vow's of poverty?

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. Anyone who actually believes George Bush Jr is a "Christian"

...is as blind and deluded as he is. Even if that bastard could read, I doubt he's ever opened a Bible.

[Individualist]

6. You'll find the answer in Matthew 25

31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, Mt. 16.27 then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mt. 19.28

32 and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 for I was ahungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee ahungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 for I was ahungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee ahungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

[Failure]

10. Timeless...beautiful...too bad those "christians"

leave those parts out.

[screembloodymurder]

7. And a Patriot too.

A patriotic moment

Amidst the celebration they paused for prayer

And God hearing their call sent down the limbs of the innocent arrogant tongue

And

The road to Baghdad is the road to perdition

Eternal damnation of the hearts of man

[JPJones]

I blame the leadership who sent them there more

Bad shit goes down in war - that's why you should avoid going to war.

[Rowdyboy]

9. You can believe you're a Martian if you choose to

But ti doesn't make you one. Millions of gays try hard to believe they're straight-but it doesn't make them straight.

Some people can justify most anything to themselves. Doesn't make it so.

[BonjourUSA]

11. A question

Does somebody here know an army (christian or not) which made a "clean" war ? at anytime and anywhere.

Stop to hide yourselves behind your little finger.

[Failure]

14. what are you trying to say? nt

[AgentLadyBug]

13. lol - they should be called "neo-christians".....

.... on the model of neo-conservatives, who aren't really conservative....

lol

[Failure]

15. lmfao....NeoChristians...nt

[checks-n-balances]

16. The other problem is that they're worshiping right wing values

instead of the God they profess to believe in.

They've also been brainwashed into thinking that

1. This is a "Christian" nation
2. Therefore, we can do no wrong, especially since we are led by an evangelical "Christian."
3. Islam is not a true religion (they've been told, or it's been implied) - just like the "godless communists" used to be our enemy
4. Therefore the end justifies the means - whatever we have to win the "war on terror" (which they think is connected to the invasion of Iraq) is OK
5. Anyone who questions this is (fill in the blank). They've effectively demonized anyone to the left of themselves.
6. We are right and if we ever admit that we're not, that must mean that we're totally wrong and there is no God (that's all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking)

It's so interconnected that it's hard to unravel all the strands of deception - especially the self-deception within the RW.

And some people just have the need to feel superior to others, whether it be Liberals, Centrists, Moderates, Iraqis, Arabs, Muslims, Democrats, etc.

And you may not be aware that the Southern Baptist Church was taken over almost 20 years ago by right-wingers, and there are moves within other denominations by RW to take over to suppress any opposite viewpoint. IMHO, it's purely a power grab.

This is FAUX religion, FAUX Christianity. It's Power and Control and an attitude of superiority (wolf) all dressed up in religious garb (sheep's clothing).

[Failure]

18. seems like anti-christianity..doesn't it? oh BTW...

This little baptist church in the town where I grew up used to be all about *, but now my dad says (he took the plunge a year ago from catholic to baptist) a lot of people he's talking to will not vote for shrub...so the cool thing is, is that if bush is pissing of these core supporters, he's done.

failure.

[ikojo]

17. I have heard rabbis explain the eye for an eye thing

and it involves COMPENSATION. Go here for an orthodox interpretation of what the biblical verse "eye for an eye" means..

http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_mishpatim.html

[CityZen-X]

19. Picasso Syndrome

All religion, in my opinion, is more like modern art. It is open to ones interpretation. When one does not have his or hers own view, they apt to succumb to peer pressure. That is why we have so many sheep, and only a few "Judas Goats."
Yashua, Mohammad, Buddha, were way cool! But unfortunately their art has been viewed upside down. But some may say that in the example of modern art, how would that matter!

[Skittles]

21. religion feeds most of the hatred and bigotry in this world

it always has, it always will

[Failure]

25. You go skittles...nice. nt

[Selwynn]

26. false cause.

Humans are full of hatred and bigotry, period. It manifest itself through religion, but certainly doesn't need religion to do so. Religion is not the cause problem. It is one place where the symptoms of the problem can be manifest however. If it was then EVERY person who held spiritual beliefs would embrace hatred and bigotry. And we know that's not true.

No, the core problem is the human heart - always has been and always will be. If there were no religion, guess what, there would still be hatred and bigotry. And lot of aggressively non-religious people - people who are not only personally irreligious but who also have to bad mouth and humiliate and berate and harass all religion everywhere and all people who are religious usually use religion as a false "scapegoat" for the real problems of life. Like I said "religion" is not the cause of problems. But people doing bad things in the name of religion is one symptom of the problem.

It's just as easy to argue that American capitalism feeds most of the hatred and prejudice in this world - hatred against everything that isn't "American" and prejudice in the form of class warfare. If that argument sounds strange to you, it is no more strange than this constant berating of all religion as though somehow it is the cause of the problem. It is not the cause of hatred and bigotry - but hatred and bigotry is often expressed through religion, simply because it is such a common experience. Hatred and prejudice are also frequently expressed through capitalism, through communism, and yes even through non-religious secularism or atheism.

I believe the "religion feed most of the hatred and bigotry in this world" line is a line used by people full of hatred and prejudice - toward religious people. They either deliberately or accidentally falsely assume that religion is the root cause of these things, rather than one very common experience (to many) through which the darker side of human nature often shines through. If there were no religion, people would find other things to fight about.

Now, you may not agree with that particular take but here's the thing: it is every bit as plausible as your take. I have just as much circumstantial evidence to support my take as you do yours. In fact I have even stronger support to be honest, because your claim faces the challenge that if religion feeds hatred and bigotry, how then is it that so many people do not give into those things, but instead lead beautiful and inspiring lives. Some of the most wonderful and important people of history have been so precisely because of their religious faith as the lens through which they saw the world - Dr. Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Thich Nhat Hahn, and so on.

In the end it comes down to a choice: do you choose to explain the data by blaming religion or by acknowledging that the human heart carries with it the potential (and sometimes I almost fear the disposition) toward hatred and bigotry, and religion is a common experience to many people, therefore also unfortunately a place where common human potentials are often manifest.

Religion is like anything else - it can be abused. The real problem is us, not religion, or capitalism, or any other system, organization or group. Religion has the potential for many, many people to be a way to overcome and rise above these human capacities, inspiring many to love and peace. I also think Western Civilization and especially people in the United States frequently associate all religion with American Fundamentalist Christianity which is unfortunate and unfair. Either way, "religion" is a common (though not universal) expression of human experience and can be harness for great and beautiful good or tragic evil, just like anything else out there.

[Skittles]

27. nice spin

but I completely disagree. Religion isn't just abused - it has been culturally deisigned to SEPARATE PEOPLE in the most fundamental manner. I am sick of people arguing over who has the better imaginary friend and using their silly beliefs to behave in apalling ways. From the outside looking in, it's all crap.

[CityZen-X]

20. Picasso Syndrome

All religion, in my opinion, is more like modern art. It is open to ones interpretation. When one does not have his or hers own view, they apt to succumb to peer pressure. That is why we have so many sheep, and only a few "Judas Goats."
Yashua, Mohammad, Buddha, were way cool! But unfortunately their art has been viewed upside down. But some may say that in the example of modern art, how would that matter!

[SHRED]

22. The USA is acting "like a Chrisitian nation."

Look at Christian history from the Inquisitions to treatment of all Native Americans (both south, central and north Americans) to slavery to no repect for nature to screwing little boys.

This administration is acting on it's history; carrying the torch singing, "Onward Christian Soldiers".

[Selwynn]

23. By their fruits ye shall know them. (nt)

[CityZen-X]

24. Picasso Syndrome

All religion, in my opinion, is more like modern art. It is open to ones interpretation. When one does not have his or her own view, they apt to succumb to peer pressure. This may be why we have so many sheep, and only a few "Judas Goats."
Yashua, Mohammad, and Buddha were way cool! But unfortunately their art has been viewed upside down by many an interpretor. But some may say that in the example of modern art, how would that matter!