Is "Redneck" a slur?

[trumad]

I once used the term "Trailer Trash" until the good folks here at DU set me straight on that derogatory remark, but now I see there's some rumblings about the word, "Redneck".

Growing up in the South, I really never thought the word was that derogatory. Hell, I know some good old boys who don't mind being called that at all. Some even have bumper stickers on their trucks proudly displaying their Redneckness..... (Of course it's right next to their confederate Flag sticker). ;-)

[jorno67]

1. I have found that around here

anything can be a slur. Some DUers are just waiting to be offended.

[trumad]

2. Yes...but just when I thought a phrase was OK..

I read on DU why it isn't and I re-think my position. That's whats wondeful about DU..it makes you think out of the box...

[mouse7]

29. listen to The Valley Road by Bruce Hornsby.

Bruce Horsby and his brother pretty much nailed it in this song

The Valley Road
B. r. hornsby/john hornsby

Sometimes I lead sometimes I follow
This time I’ll go where she wants me to go
She said maybe today maybe tomorrow
Go deep in the woods down the low valley road

While no one was lookin on the old plantation
He took her all the way down the long valley road
They sent her away not too much later
And left him walking down the old valley road
Walk on, walk on alone
Walk on, walk on, walk on alone

Out in the hall they were talking in a whisper
Everybody noticed she was gone awhile
Somebody said she’s gone to her sister’s
But everybody knew what they were talking about

While no one was lookin on the old plantation
He showed her what they do down the long valley road
She came back around like nothing really happened
And left him standing on the old valley road
Walk on, walk on alone
Walk on, walk on, walk on alone

Standing like a stone on the old plantation
The rich old man would have never let him in
Good enough to hire not good enough to marry
When it all happens nobody wins
Walk on, walk on alone
Walk on, walk on, walk on alone

[latebloomer]

3. well, since whenever I hear "redneck"

I think of my favorite quote--"You might be a redneck if. . . you use a toilet brush for a back scratcher"---- umm, I guess it is.

Seriously, I've always thought it had a VERY negative connotation-- but then again, I'm a Yankee, so what do I know?

[LizW]

4. Depends on how it is used

Some people obviously use it as a slur. I refer to my family and myself as Alabama rednecks all the time, but what I mean is that I come from generations of family farmers who worked outdoors and wore clothing that protected them from searing in the sun, so their necks were red and their backs and chests were white. They didn't go on vacations to the beach, or play golf or tennis. Their "tan lines" came from working in the hay field in the summer. That's all redneck means when I use it.

But some folks use it to imply that the person is ignorant or bigoted, and yes, that certainly is a slur.

[Khephra]

5. It's an ethnic term that can be used by those of a similar ethnic group

Just like I can't get by with using the "N" word or the "C" word, most people can't use those terms without it being an insult.

HOWEVER, I having lived a red-neck, trailer-trash life at one point I can talk about "us" people with those terms.

Or at least, that's how I think that game of linguistic slang should be played...based on how Black culture and other cultures play it.

Same goes for the word Cracker. If you're calling me a Cracker, you better be white. If not, it's the same as me using the "N" word...imo.

[trumad]

9. Well I've always called you "K"

is that ok..;-)

[Khephra]

10. I think we've all been "k"'s at some point in our lives

So it's cool whit me. ;-)

[MessiahRp]

18. Oh come on..

See this is where I always thought that minorities were shorted, they have a slur name that offends them completely as a group... somewhat, and us white people well we have crap ones....

You say the N word to a black person and you're white and they practically come out in numbers to beat your ass. Ridiculous because they playfully refer to themselves that way sometimes multiple times per sentence.

Now on our end look what they call us... Redneck, Cracker, Honky. These are the most pathetic names ever. I mean how can someone be offended by names so stupid? There has just never been as much hateful connotation to those names so any white guy who is offended by those names has way to thin of skin and is looking for a reason to fight.

As a white guy myself we have the weakest slur names ever directed at us and it's impossible for them to offend me.

Rp

[Nalgenelover Snort]

6. No.

I've also never found it offensive. What's offensive is when people automatically assume that everyone who lives in the South is one.

[Gemini Cat]

118. True.

Redneck does NOT equate a person from the south.

Redneck is an attitude. I've found rednecks and redneck behaviours all over North America as well as Europe.
Redneck cuts across all races, socioconomic groups and classes.
To me the term redneck is just another way of saying stupid or better yet, asshole.

[Catch22Dem]

7. Not to me....sorry

I see a redneck and I call it like it is.

[Benhurst]

8. The real "fightin' words" slur in my neck of the woods:

"Yankee" and "Yankeefied."

[Khephra]

11. That is so sad...

How many more centuries will it take before the North and South are one again? And the most frightening thing is that so many people in the North have no clue to the hate that still is felt in the South towards the North.

sigh...

[trumad]

14. NEVER

Those bastard Yankees took my chickens and burned my farm!

[jorno67]

17. you must be old

[Nimble_Idea]

16. It won't take centuries at all

In 50 years, the south will be New Mexico, and well....the south will NOT rise again.

It will just be a different kind of North located in the southern part of the country.

[robbedvoter]

13. Somehow, it doesn't stick. I like being a yankee.

And will watch my "redneck" use.

[Piperay]

159. Me too

even though I am a Californian Yankee sounds good to me. :-)

[Burma Jones]

12. If Rednecks were an oppressed class, then maybe

But, it was usually the rednecks that was doin' the oppressin'

[r_u_stuck2]

21. NO

I am 60 years old and truly understand what the old south was like.

The rednecks did not do the oppressin' as you call it. The rednecks worked the fields and barely had enough to survive on.

There were a few wealthy folks who might have done the oppressin', but it was not what was known then as true rednecks.

Folks this is getting me hot. The south today is certainly not what it was in the 40's, 50's, and 60's.

[mouse7]

No, it wasn't.

Don't comment on history you obviously don't know. The plantation-owner class did the oppressing in the South.

[Burma Jones]

67. I come from that "redneck" class

I DO know the history

I do know the attitudes, I grew up with them and hear them today whenever I visit my people in TN.

I certainly don't think there were any plantation owners at Oxford, or Birmingham, or Little Rock. I don't think plantation owners bankrolled David Duke. I don't think Bull Connor owned a plantation, I mean did he? Did Orval Faubus own a plantation. or did he just consider Arkansas his own fiefdom? Did Jesse Helms steal all those elections?

I think these poor white folks vote overwhelmingly Republican because it's the only way left they have to oppress.


ON EDIT: Coming from this class, I refer to someone as a Redneck ONLY AFTER he/she exhibits the racist/anti-semitic attitude I know so well.

[mouse7]

68. There weren't plantation owners in Oxford and Birmingham?

What history books are you studying?

By the way, we were discussing the origin of the term "redneck"

You've already disqualifed yourself from further comment.

[Burma Jones]

160. Well, let's see

Oxford. MS and Birmingham, AL, I mean, you DO know about Oxford Mississippi and James Meredith, don't you, if not, I suggest Google, you DO know about Google, don't you?

The books can be whatever papers were printed in the 1950's and 1960's

The Message to which I responded made no mention of the origin of the word redneck. Perhaps you should learn to read more carefully.

And you have disqualified yourself from my reading anything else you may post.

[bigbillhaywood]

111. And the white working class actively assisted in it. n/t

[QC]

121. Yes, they have been manipulated by those who seek to

maintain their power and wealth.

So what do we do? Call them names and tell them they should have known better? The real Big Bill Haywood tried to get people to recognize their common class interests, and that seems like a better idea to me.

[bigbillhaywood]

123. Look, I'm all for the white working class uniting with other ethnicities

to fight for common class interests, but I'm not gonna deny history and pretend that the plantation owners were the only people doing the oppressing. I don't believe that the manipulation of the white working class absolves them of racist actions. And I think this whole "redneck" as a classist or racist slur is a tempest in a teapot.

[QC]

125. I don't think it absolves them either.

Never said that it did, as far as I can recall.

What I did say is that there's a history of manipulation behind the problem (read C. Vann Woodward's The Strange Career of Jim Crow if you want all the details) and that it's more constructive to try to show people the error of their ways than to just sit around and call them names.

[bigbillhaywood]

129. I know the history...

The first anti race-mixing laws were esatblished in colonial Virginia in the late 1600s after white indentured servants and black slaves joined forces and rebelled against the plantation owners. It just seems like you assume a lot of ignorance on my part as to the class aspects of racism. I understand them completely. And so what if someone calls someone else a "redneck"? Big deal. Not using the word on DU's not gonna solve anything. A commitment to labor organizing, especially in the South, will. That and breaking the institutional power and cultural hold of the Southern Baptist Convention and other right-wing churches over the Southern white working-class. Both things easier said than done.

[QC]

130. And you assume that I seek to excuse wrongdoing,

and that I think a linguistic debate on a message board means more than real organizing. Both are unwise assumptions.

How about we stop assuming so much about each other, then, and just talk?

As for why I think this particular word is a problem, see my post down near the bottom of the thread. As I said there, I think that associating racism and ignorance with rural poverty localizes them in a way that minimizes the racism of the larger society.

[bigbillhaywood]

133. No, I get your point...

I just don't think it's such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. No offense, but I don't think I want to discuss whether it's okay to use "redneck" anymore. However, if you want to discuss race/class issues and organizing around that, I would be more than happy to do that with you in another forum. But seeing as how I'm done with this subject and will be getting off this board entirely in the next 10 minutes (It's a beautiful day where I am, and I still want to enjoy some of it), we can pick up the conversation later. Until then, take care.

[w4rma]

25. Rednecks *are* an oppressed class. (nt)

[QC]

43. You're right--poor people of all colors are oppressed.

That's the problem with thinking of people solely in terms of race and sex and ignoring class--it lumps rich and poor together, as though they are the same.

Do Bill Gates and unemployed coal miners have much in common? I mean, they're both white and male, right? So do they have equal representation in their government? Are they treated the same? Do they have the same opportunities in life?

Of course not. In our society, how much money you have determines what you can do and how important you are. So pretending that people only come in colors and sexes, but not classes, is the worst sort of foolishness.

[robbedvoter]

45. But poor doesnt make you redneck. I am a poor yankee.

I still think that the definition is not as much economical as it is ideological.

[QC]

50. See post 39.

Your own personal definition might refer to ideology, but the word's origins have to do with class, and the standard definitions do as well.

And honestly, how many of those who love to sling that word around really administer a political questionnaire to someone before deciding whether to call him a redneck? In America, if you're poor, white, rural, speak nonstandard English, do manual labor, etc. you are a redneck.

[ikojo]

72. AMEN, QC!!! I have pointed this out to some

black activist friends of mine. Until I told them my family's story about growing up poor in Illinois they had assumed that ALL white people grew up in the suburbs and hired blacks as servants to do the stuff they did not want to do (wash clothes and raise children). They assumed that I had everything handed to me just because I was a white woman, that my parents paid for my college education(not true because there was no money available), that I had two parents at home all the time (my mom and dad divorced when I was six years of age).

I told them of qualifying for free school lunches (they had assumed that only black folks were that poor). I told them of heat and electricity being turned off because my mom could not afford to pay the bills all the time. (nope

It was an eye opener for them to hear a relatively young white woman tell her story of poverty and deprivation in the US.

[QC]

77. The truth of class is the biggest threat to the establishment.

If we can ever get the poor of all colors and regions and whatever to realize what they have in common, then there will be real changes in this country.

I don't think it's any concidence that MLK was killed when he started talking too much about class. And I also don't think it's any concidence that when any candidate, like Gore in 2000, starts talking about the haves and have-nots, the entire media machine starts singing the same old song about the evils of "class warfare."

[ikojo]

I agree, QC, that class is a bigger threat to those in power

This is why black AND white elites (and yes, there are black elites, although not in as great of numbers they still exist) play the race card so effectively, to keep the two communities of working class and middle class people from joining forces. If the two could ever get past the race issue and join forces then it would be formidable.

As long as poverty has a black face attached to it, then it is easy for poor whites to not see themselves as in the same boat. It is also easier for poor whites to support draconian measures in favor of decreasing benefits available to the poor.

[QC]

81. About the face of poverty...

I read an interesting study once, and wish I could remember where, that traced the parallels between media portrayals of poverty and public support for anti-poverty programs.

The gist of the study was that the tendency of media to treat poverty as primarily a minority thing (which began in the late 60's) paralleled the decline in public support for government aid to the poor.

In other words, as you point out, racializing poverty builds public support for ending welfare programs.

[DAGDA56]

15. Not a slur, as I see it, but a classification by choice...

...unlike people labled with some ethnic or racial slurs, I think "rednecks" have made a conscious choice to adapt the "redneck" lifestyle, as they percieve it to be. As another transplanted Yankee here in the South, I have seen more people express pride in being a redneck than offended by the term. If you don't like to be called a redneck, then you probably aren't one. ...now what about Yankee?

[Khephra]

20. That's why I think it's close to blacks using the "N" word

Rednecks (and I could say I'm a bit of one from my upbringing) can call themselves rednecks, but I'm not so sure on how it goes down when others outside of their groups call them as such.

[DAGDA56]

26. Actually, there are often Positive aspects to being "redneck"...

...as expressed by rednecks; they will often talk about their "uncomplicated" lifestyle, love of nature and the land, etc. Of course, when I hear somebody say "Well, I'm just a simple country boy..." I instinctively reach for my wallet.

[mouse7]

37. blue coller is the exact same as redneck

It means a person who works for a living.

[comsymp]

62. No, it isn't, and

no, it doesn't.

Rednecks are a distinct "group", easily differentiated from GOB's (good ol' boys), who generally work for a living, too, for example. The primary difference is attitude.

Of course, it's difficult for outsiders to grasp the distinctions but they're significant.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[comsymp]

70. Thanks for the laugh

Please cite my claim to expertise?

And while you're working on a way to twist my statements, I've gotta say that your lack of knowledge on this subject is blindingly obvious.

I'd pay good money to see you try to get away with your definitions in a small town down here-- at the very least, the "rural elites", as you call 'em, would freeze you in a heartbeat if you referred to them as GOB's~ (tho it's pretty self-evident, I trust your presumption to familiarity with Southern culture and vocabulary does include the term "freeze."}

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[mouse7]

94. How the alert clicking doing for you, comsys

You don't like posts on threads that have evidence that show how wrong you are, huh Compsys?

Like I said, you're completely wrong about rednecks and good ol' boys. The good ol' boys were rural elites that sharecropped out their land to tenant farmers, then took the money to the State legislature to deal out the spoils.

[bigbillhaywood]

112. That was the original meaning, but it's not the common usage today

"Redneck" used to be a term for farmers or farm hands because their necks got sunburned working in the fields all day. But when people use the term redneck today it's either to describe a "hick" or a racist hick.

[mouse7]

33. No, it's not Khephra

Redneck is a term for working class in the south like "Union man" or "blue-collar" is in the Midwest.

I love these people from Indianapolis making decrees on Southern Culture.

[Khephra]

40. I'm not making any decrees upon the South

You have no idea how strong the Southern ideology/identification goes in the midwest. Now I'm not identifying the South with the KKK, but Indiana was the hotspot for both the KKK and the Undground Railroad. We're a meeting point for Northern and Southern culture.

I grew up in rural schools with families who used the term "redneck" with pride. I haven't said a single negative thing about them, I'm speaking as one of them, however slightly I may be one.

[mouse7]

44. Actually, San Diego County, CA. was the BIG recent KKK hotspot

You just DID make a decree about the South. You insinuated that the KKK was Southern Culture. Hatred is not Southern Culture.

Tom Metzger and his hate spew was in Falbrook CA.

"Tom Metzger, a television repairman from Fallbrook, California, has been a leader in organized bigotry for more than 25 years. Metzger preaches a fierce brand of anti- Semitic, racist and anti-immigrant invective, combined with a leftist-leaning revolutionary ideology known as the "Third Position." He has been widely acknowledged as the principal mentor of the neo-Nazi skinhead movement since its appearance in America during the mid-1980s; in this connection, he attracted nationwide publicity in 1990, when an Oregon jury rendered a $12.5 million judgment against him and his son, John, for inciting the murder of an Ethiopian immigrant by skinheads. Today, although still paying the judgment, Metzger continues to cultivate a following through his monthly newspaper, WAR - White Aryan Resistance, a Web site, a telephone hotline, an e-mail newsletter, and other media."

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Metzger.asp

[Nimble_Idea]

49. Big deal.....

most of his followers are more than likely from the south and middle america. So just because you can find one guy in the Tech areas to spew his hate, doesn't mean you can actually compare CA's widespread RACISM(which doesn't exist) to North Carolina's rural coast(Heavy Racists).

[Name removed]

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[mouse7]

100. Metzger's Skinheads started as Marines from Camp Pendleton

Metger lived right outside the Camp Pendleton gates. His first followers were mostly Marine trainees from Camp Pendleton. They had close cropped hair. The next round of followers started copying the haircuts of the Marines. Birth of the Skinheads.

The Skinheads in rural coastal NC were lead from the Marine base in Jacksonville NC.... transferred there after training at Camp Pendleton.

[mouse7]

19. Redneck is a term for working class

The working class whites in the South got the exposed skin burned out in the field while the plantation owners kept their lily-white complexions on the long porches of plantation houses sitting on their ass sipping mint juleps.

"White trash" is better term. Doesn't attack economic background. There plenty of wealthy white trash in the south, especially in fraternities in Southern private Universities.

[Khephra]

22. Heck, "white trash" is a term we use in Indy...I think it's more common

than "redneck" these days, to tell you the truth. I also think it's much more insulting.

[mouse7]

35. In Indy, you think redneck is an insult n/t

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[mouse7]

63. Maybe YOU don't read what you write

"20. That's why I think it's close to blacks using the "N" word


Rednecks (and I could say I'm a bit of one from my upbringing) can call themselves rednecks, but I'm not so sure on how it goes down when others outside of their groups call them as such."

You're the one who made the connection between the n-word, and the word "redneck," not me.

[Nimble_Idea]

32. Don't give in to Hate, "White Thrash" is worse than Redneck

WHY does it have to be "WHITE" thrash? I'm not white....but I'll be damned before I went around calling people "WHITE" thrash. It's as bad as saying the N word about blacks , said in the same spirit, HATE.

I refuse, there are plenty of GOOD white people out there (Democrats) to sit there and use WHITE in a bad way like that.

YES, in the south, they are racist, NOT ALL, so please get off my back southern heritage people.

THere is a major problem in the south with HATE and RACE. But DON'T become them, it's sad to see it. Even when I see someone who you think is "White Thrash" I think more in terms of Confederate.


These people in the south.....they are poor and they are told it is the Black man's fault that they have "All these problems all these years"

It's sad, but they can be taken advantaged of, just like any other poor segement of population in any part of the world. BLAME somone else and then reduce them to negative terms and stereotypes and foment the hate till it reaches point break.


If, anything at all, WE SHOULD TRY TO HELP THE SOUTH. I think through education , there can be a FORCE for change and bring those people out of the darkness they live in. Education can bring many southern girls out from under the culture of "SUBMISSION" and move them on to better things in life. It's happening alot here in the South, look at places like GA TECH, CAROLINA, and other southern universites, they are HEAVY DEMOCRAT areas and they bring the SOUTH UP.......I prefer that way.....I will not give in to hate.....I REFUSE......I will NOT GIVE UP on the SOUTH. I might every now and then degrade and belittle the CONFEDERATE FLAG waver but only to demonstrate by disapproval of their hate, but I won't begin to hate them.....

FIGHT FOR THE SOUTH!!!

Arkansas,Florida, Missouri, 2004.

Arkansas,Florida,Georgia,North Carolina, Louisiana 2008.

See ya there.

[mouse7]

36. There's whites, and there's white trash.

The term is not used for a group of people. The term is used for individuals who have "earned" it's usage.

[Nimble_Idea]

41. like I said,

I don't believe any of them EARNED that usage.

They may be hateful, ignorant people, but I won't make up a term to call them that.

It's SMUCKISH.

Hey, I get attacked all the time here on DU for calling the SOUTH what it is, RACISTS. The Republicans are pure and simple RACISTS.

NOT ALL OF THEM, but enough to warrant the attention I give it. Theres a reason why Non-White vote heavily against them.....it aint no fugging secret, THEY KNOW IT, AND WE KNOW IT, AND WE KNOW THAT EACH OTHER KNOW IT.....there is a divide in the country ....and it's NORTH VS SOUTH.....PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER...


But I won't help the division, I will do anything I can to avert it.
The best way is through education and a better future for the south.
That is why I support Democrats, Because they will ACTUALLY TRY to Make education better for this country especially in the SOUTH. The Republicans don't want the south educated....they would lose their base.

(btw this post ain't directly at you mouse)

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[Nimble_Idea]

76. what exactly is your point??

or was your point that
"Get you facts straight before running your mouth at others. It REALLY make you look ridiculous."

Yeah...you should stop now.

[mouse7]

92. My point? You were wrong on CA racism, and birth of skinheads.

You've been running around the thread calling everyone clueless, when it was you, in fact, who were completely ignorant on the subject matter.

I'll same the same thing again...

"Get you facts straight before running your mouth at others. It REALLY make you look ridiculous."

[Nimble_Idea]

102. I refer to your post as my response

eom.

[comsymp]

73. As Nimble pointed out, you've apparently misfired, but for the record

I'm 41 and live in NC, where I was born (rural coastal for your benefit, Nimble ;-) ), raised, and have spent the majority of my life, excluding a few years in Atlanta and Philadelphia (primarily).
As to what I know... I know what I've learned and that's about it.

And you?


Additionally, I didn't call anyone arrogant or ignorant- don't know 'em that well- I did, however, clearly (or so I thought) state that the opinions in this thread given by the poster, were.

[mouse7]

78. I spent my first 29 years in Southside Richmond VA

Chesterfield CO. to be more precise.

Yeah, and I know you spent your life primarily in Philly. It shows.

[comsymp]

83. Explains a lot- thanks

One set of my Greats lived in Richmond on Park- not as aesthetically pleasing area as it was 50 yrs ago... pity.
I still have family in the Sandston area.

No, actually about a year, maybe year and a half, cumulative in Philly...

So, how's that ad hom thing workin' out for ya?

[mouse7]

90. Yes, Virginia... home of the FFVs... the first Good Ol' Boy Network

The same FFVs that got a song about them in the musical "1776"

First Families of Virginia.

The old Families of Virginia used it to hold a noose on the Southern economy that wasn't broken up until the bank mergers started happening, and the old Southern banks were absorbed into bigger mega-corps, and the management of the banks was drawn from national pools.

The FFVs controlled the banking, and therefore all investments. They made the decisions on who got loans to enlarge businesses. Much of the personal holding was in land, which was sharecropped out to tenant farmers.

And the political power they held was refered to as "the good Ol' boy" network. The Good Ol' Boys simply drove around collecting their payment from the sharecroppers, and then drove into Richmond when the part time legislature met to deal out the spoils.

[Nimble_Idea]

79. "Additionally"

I will assume that part was addressed to me.

I realize that both you and Mouse were attacking me at the same time, and in the confusion attacked each other.

I'm reminded of the time I saw two dogs trying to get at each other through a glass door and continuously ran into it.

Anyways, Mouse wasn't mad that you called me arrogant or ignorant, he thought your attack was directed at him.


But I guess doing a little battle with you and mouse is a bit entertaining.

You two can get back to the glass door now.....




Edit: BTW comp, you should clearly ignore mouse, he is clearly flaming and fomenting at the mouth.


:)

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[Nimble_Idea]

86. "miketime"?!?!?!?!? LOL

Didn't I tell you to get some kool-aid......sheesh
I said it wasn't widespread , which it isn't. I never said it DIDN't EXIST. I've said that several times now.

Visit the nearest bathroom for some papertowels, your foaming at the mouth is getting on the floor.

EDIT: I'm done arguing with a kid.

[mouse7]

97. Racism not widespread in CA?

More funnies. Metzger. The 1965 Watts Riots. King. The 2nd LA riots. Furman.

Looks pretty widespead to everyone there.

[comsymp]

88. Good point re: Edit

After the previous exchange I think it's time to find something a little more constructive to do with my Saturday.

And yeah, the parenthetical comment was for your benefit, referencing one of your prior posts- figured I'd kill 2 birds w/one stone. (ON EDIT: not the "additionally" part- just the E NC)
But true, virtually lifelong resident of Eastern NC with roots here going back about 300 years, which may help you understand the perspective which leads me to find some of the comments on this thread inaccurate and insulting.

But just to be clear and to avoid any unintended insult, I didn't confuse y'all- tho I vehemently disagree with both of you and question the validity of your (pl) statements on this thread, there's NO WAY I could mix you up.

Nor did I feel that I was attacking either of you- subjective, I guess- but I tried to make it clear that it was the information I found objectionable, not the posters... well, until Mouse started calling me Idiot, anyway...

[Nimble_Idea]

89. You got off easy

He called you idiot? He called me dumbass.

Anyways, I know your "from the south" and find it insulting.

It always happens when I talk about the south. Someone from the south will RISE UP in Complete Objection!! you have insulted the SOUTH!! and on and on......


I stand firm in my statements. I know hate when I see it. You can feel hate, you don't have to friggan research it.

Enjoy your weekend.

[comsymp]

104. OK, gotta respond to that last- then I'm REALLY logging off, I swear!

As a gesture of respect I'm gonna point out a couple examples of what I specifically objected to, in hopes that we can reach a mutual understanding. Maybe it was your word choice (or my perception thereof) as opposed to the thoughts you were attempting to express-

#41 - Hey, I get attacked all the time here on DU for calling the SOUTH what it is, RACISTS. The Republicans are pure and simple RACISTS.

OK, what I got outta that was that a) My family & I, as "the South" are being called racists, and b) somehow Southerner = Republican. Both are understandably inflammatory statements.

Next paragraph deals with educating the South- despite positive comments in your previous posts about UNC, etc., the inference drawn here is that you're now calling me, as a Southerner, ignorant. Inflammatory, again.

Again, several times in this thread you've made a pointed effort to state that you aren't criticising the ENTIRE South, and you've balanced some comments with acknowledgements of some positives. But in light of comments like the one I quoted, one could interpret your disclaimers as basic lip service.

Basically, it's the broad brush approach that troubles me. I can't imagine that ANYONE down here would attempt to claim that everything's just peachy down here... but we do get awfully tired of having folks who have no fucking clue (folks in general- not you in this instance) making blanket criticisms based on what they have either heard, read in a novel or seen in a movie. Maybe you could take a step back and consider your reaction to hearing your comments made by, say a European, about the US. I'd bet that your first reaction would be "We're not all like that- it's just some areas in the South!" :evilgrin:

Just give it some thought- maybe walk a mile in my bare feet ;-)

Anyway, it's been interesting- hope to catch you around again, preferably on a different subject!

[Nimble_Idea]

105. the only reason I even put negatives in my posts were becuase

I was attacked myself. Like I said, one good slight deserves another.

You and mouse7 take what someone says and distort it and then try to attack and defend that point of the topic.

I won't deny that I made attacks back on both you and mouse beacuse I was only trying to be witty in my response back to you both.

But As I said any time the south talk comes up here at DU, it always gets messy. Oh well, I've stopped respoding to mouse, he clearly has jumped off the deep end.
But if any terms offenened you, Then I'll just say I didn't mean it, I just said it to rile you up, as you have done the same to me.
Of course, most of my anger came from mouse who, like I said, has clearly jumped off the deep end.

Oh well, I'm done if you are :)

[mouse7]

106. You stopped responding because you were proven wrong.

You won't respond to me because you know I'm right about the subject matter.

I jumped into the deep end of the pool of knowledge....a pool you obviously stand on the side of and watch others swim in.

[mouse7]

95. You lose your miketime when you claim no racism in CA.

You claim there's no racism in California. People laugh. They turn off your mike.

[Nimble_Idea]

99. It's amazing how that Repug tactic actually works on people

But you fail to realize that your at DU.

The Repug tactic I refer to is
Assume a position that the democrats didn't take and then attack it.


It's just too funny.

[mouse7]

101. No...you would be using the RePug debating style.

Find an issue you are ignorant about, and then talk non-stop about it.

[Nimble_Idea]

103. *yawn*

:eyes:

[Nimble_Idea]

71. your contribution to the topic has profound effects!!

on the warts on an cow's arse, somewhere in Kentucky.

Go chew on some bubble gum and gather your thoughts.

[comsymp]

80. Perhaps you could share some of your techniques

for elevating conversation...

I didn't offer any thoughts- just an observation. There's no chance in Hell that I intend to waste my morning trying to convince you that you're wrong- no doubt, better folks than I have tried, and apparently without success.

If you choose to continue believing that Southerners require your (pl) assistance in educating us (hence the arrogance part), or that Southern = Republican and The Mason-Dixon Line = The Racism Line, have at it.


If you are even remotely interested in picking up some new info, however, you could google any of these:

Oldest State Supported University (still being argued by GA & NC)
World Church Creator
Skokie Klan
Howard Beach
Boston Busing
Levi Coffin
Governor Hunt Education (and for grins, replace "Hunt" with "Miller")

[Nimble_Idea]

85. Like I said, I don't call EVERY southern person racist

But Yes, I stand firm in saying better education that will bring people out of despair gives them hope as a replacement for hate. It is used by the US thoughtout the world, it's no surpise we should try it here.

Please , spare me , the "defend the southern heritage" here. Any and all attacks on the south is Unfounded yada yada yada.....yeah don't waste your time trying to convince me that education for the south is a bad thing or needed. The Culture of Submissive woman comes to an end when the woman actually has more money and influence than the man.....oh I guess that goes against Southern Heritage.
Like I keep saying Im not talking about ALL the south, but Im talking about a SIGNIFICANT PORTION of it.

Btw I recently saw "Gods and General" on HBO recently, I thought it was utter garbage. But I guess you thought it was finally the truth! that finally someone showed that the south was right in trying to break away from the nation. Oh well, one good slight deserves another.

oh, I don't need to research any hate in NC, I already know its here and now.

[comsymp]

93. Well, I tried

But you really flashed by assuming that the links I suggested were about "hate in NC."

Believe it or not, many of those searches I suggested would have shown you that the South is actually already familiar with the benefits of education. But if you don't want to expose yourself to new information- while criticizing the perceived ignorance/lack of education here, fine... and I'll just enjoy the irony.

Sigh...

Oh, your other assumption about my opinion of G&M- never saw it. Never wanted to.

Anyway, it's been fun but I've gotta go. Cousins to fuck, crosses to burn, (white) sheets to wash...

[Nimble_Idea]

96. The Drama you exert is on the level of ridiculous

First , maybe I though you were giving me links to how the South doesn't hate.

Then I will address the Education part, I KNOW Easley is trying to get better education and KNOWS AND SEES the benefits of it. I didn't say ALL SOUTHERN people were uneducated and didn't understand the benefits. EASELY is a DEMOCRAT and is only executin what Im advocating, is the CHIEF POINT.

"Anyway, it's been fun but I've gotta go. Cousins to fuck, crosses to burn, (white) sheets to wash..."

Like I said, Ridiculous.

[Gold Metal Flake]

65. self deleted cuz I can't get any links to pix to work.

deleted

[bigbillhaywood]

115. Sounds similar to the argument I used to hear from whites down South

"There's blacks, then there's niggers". How would you feel about the following phrase: "There's blacks, then there's black trash"? Ask most poor whites if they think "white trash" is offensive. When most people use the term, that's who they're referring to-- it's rarely used to describe upper-class whites. Redneck, on the other hand, despite it's original working-class definition, is much more commonly used today to describe racist good old boys no matter what their class status. I've often heard Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms referred to as "rednecks", but I've never heard them called "white trash". Despite the origins of the term "redneck", today "white trash" is a more class-loaded term.

[bigbillhaywood]

116. That's the origin of "redneck", but common usage just means hick or racist

[QC]

122. See post 120. n/t

[mopaul]

23. not to me it ain't

nor is trailer trash. i lived in a trailer for years, so what?
in fact, there is no dirty name that anyone can call me that bothers me in the slightest. i've outgrown being offended by people who try to use words as weapons. mo don't play

[Pachamama]

24. Ignorance is the word we are looking for - right?

....and I just used the word "Trailer Trash" in an earlier posting...ooops...won't do that again....

Really, the word ignorance is what we are looking for...Our country is so IGNORANT right now....its scary...

[Khephra]

27. One term I always wondered about..."peckerwood"

I don't get that one.

[Nimble_Idea]

34. that's a friendly word among friends

A friend would call another friend peckerwood...as to call him a dummy, but it would be among friends. Strangers don't call each other peckerwood......it would make you look strange to do it.

They would either think you were crazy or gay.

[playahata1]

55. It's an inversion of "woodpecker."

If anything, it's a reference to this bird's red head and neck. Hence, just another way to say "redneck."

[doni_georgia]

28. all depends on the connotation

When used as a blanket term to describe all southerners - it's offensive.

Thing is, being a redneck is not just a southern thing. There are rednecks all over the country. Jeff Foxworthy has made an entire career on rednecks. Around where I live, there are many self-professed rednecks. It's when someone who ISN'T a redneck calls someone else a redneck that it's a problem.

[Toucano]

30. "Princess" can be a slur.

Context and intent are factors.

If you're using a word to convey derision, any word will do.

How about "latte-drinking"?

"Redneck" is akin to "geek" and "nerd" in that many people have adopted it as part of their identity and will only be offended by it's use if the intent is to offend or characterize in a negative way.

"White-trash", "trailer-trash" and "baby killer" are unlikely to evolve into positive expressions because of their inherent negativity.

[Pachamama]

82. I'm a latte-drinking, Feminist, Warrior Princess

....who while marching on Washington DC two weeks ago for the March for Women's lives (with my 3 mos old) was called a "baby killer" (and "hey, atleast you didn't kill that one!)

And when a counter-protester who held up a sign that said "NOW-National Organization of Witches" - I just smiled at him and put a spell on him :)

[aintitfunny]

31. If you are a redneck

it is ok for you to apply the term to fellow rednecks. If you are not a redneck it is a slur.

[IronLionZion]

38. Depends on who is using it.

If you consider yourself a redneck too then it's fine. But if you think you're better or something and call me a redneck, I'll kick your monkey ass.

my $0.02

[QC]

39. Where the word "redneck" came from.

This is more or less what I posted on another thread:

There are two common etymologies for it.

One refers to the red scarves that early labor activists wore. The other, which is more widely accepted, refers to the fact that when you spend your days walking behind a plow in the hot sun, the back of your neck turns permanently red.

Lots of people say that when they call someone a redneck, they are talking about their political views, freeperish opinions, etc. but neither one of those etymologies has anything to do with a freeper mentality.

Besides, I know a good many educated and affluent people who are, politically speaking, knuckledraggers. Yet I never see anyone here referring to them as rednecks. For some reason that term, which so many say has nothing to do with one's birthplace or class, is reserved for poor, rural white people.

When I hear people routinely refer to Bush, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc. as rednecks, then I will believe that the word has solely to do with people's ugly political views. But not until then.

[Nimble_Idea]

42. What the hell makes you think SHrub is a redneck

That FOOL is a FAKE ASS COWBOY. He ain't worth a cow's urine.

Fake Texas Southern wannabe. He was mad, because he couldn't hack it up north , so he came down south to be KING among peasants. For all the other neo-cons you named, how can they be rednecks?? they are friggan Spood fed, maid wipes. They have nothing common with the SOUTH, they just take advantage of the climate there.

Rednecks refer to the people who vote against liberals, but only do it at the direction of somone smarter then they are, with NO INTENTION of actually making their lives better.

[QC]

47. I didn't say Bush was a redneck.

What I said was that it's interesting how those who insist that "redneck" only refers to people with freeperish political views never apply the word to rich, powerful people with freeperish political views. By some amazing coincidence, they only refer to poor, rural white people as rednecks, all the while insisting that when they call people rednecks, they are not commenting on their social class or birthplace, only their political views.

[Nimble_Idea]

52. first off

I didn't say you called him Redneck, I was just making a comment on why someone wouldn't call Shrub a redneck.

As for political views VS class, I always thought of Redneck as poor rural white people in the south who can be cowed by the Rich and powerful Republicans just to futher their wealth and power , all the while having no itention of actually helping the south, only to keep the south in the condition it is in....so to keep enough voters to continue their power and wealth.

[QC]

57. Yep, that's been the usual political dynamic in the South.

Unfortunately, it works other places, too.

Consider the example of Pete Wilson, who got to be governor of California twice by blaming all the state's problems on Latino immigrants.

[robbedvoter]

48. he's an aspiring redneck (or cowboy, or born again, or compassionate

as the script requires). When he tals about the "big time newsman" or the "brie and cheese elites' he is acting his redneck part.

[Hubert Flottz]

46. The term was first used, the best I can tell, in West Virginia!

The coal miners in the process of unionizing the WV coal mines fought a group of Contract killers and the US Army in the battle of Blair Mountain! The miners wore red bandannas around their necks so they wouldn't shoot each other by mistake! Here is the first thing I found on the word redneck when I looked on Yahoo:


snip>
"Rednecks" was the name given to the miners, since red bandanas were worn around the neck...

http://appalred.com/

[0007]

51. Sounds plausible

[Toucano]

53. Interesting...

I've no doubt that is the accurate origin.

In the mid-west, we think of it as describing the tractor-riding farmer's sunburned neck.

[r_u_stuck2]

56. It is a STEREOTYPE

I think all of us are familiar with this term. We certainly do not wish to stereotype anyone, (although we pretty much do it to the rethugs), but I hope thinking people could move beyond this.

When you use the term "redneck" you are grouping folks into one preconceived idea of what they are.

"a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment"

I would hope that if we truly represent what we think the democratic party means, that we would make individual judgments based on character.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

59. When it's used as a synonym for stupid or right-winger

Which is how Janeane Garofalo has used it on AAR, though she's toning it down now. That kind of usage only alienates a lot of people who fit what I guess would be cultural definitions of being redneck, but are neither stupid nor right-wing.

I'm thinking of my youngest brother who could easily be defined as a redneck by a number of cultural parameters, and who has referred to himself as such; but he's not a conservative, and he ain't dumb. And while we were both raised in a blue-collar environment, I never have thought of myself as a redneck, and my lifestyle doesn't support the term.

Not being one, I avoid using the word. It's easily misinterpreted, and there are other words that are more precise to the variety of expression it's used to convey.

[Failure]

60. It's not a slur anymore than "yuppie" is.

and I think we're makin' a big toodoo about it.

[Toucano]

87. Do you know what a slur is?

[Guaranteed]

124. Or "liberal." nt

[MichaelHarris]

91. We

as liberals tend to put alot of thought into the words we use, sometimes too much thought. It is possible to be too politically correct to the point that we miss the "context" of the word or phrase. Its that "context" that defines one's intention. If you're driving down the street and see a trailer house with a fat man in a greasy tank-top, drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon, sitting next to a 72 El Camino on cinder blocks watching his kids play in a busy street do you take the time to think, "what an idiot" or do you just choose the "trailer trash" approach? My point here is trailer trash does exist whether we want to admit it or not, same as being a "redneck". It's the context. Not everyone who lives in trailer parks is trailer trash and not every southern working person is a redneck. Not every trailer is tornado bait either, but I'm not willing to test that one out.

When people visit Hawaii are they offended at the term "howlie"? Howlie is a non-polynesian born person, from the Hawaiian word haole.
I've been to Hawaii a few times and I've seen both types of "howlies" The hateful tourist treating the locals like servants and the non-hawaiians living together with a native people. They're both howlies, just one type of them are assholes.

I found two examples of what I mean right here:

Because she was a red-haired howlie, Susan was careful to use plenty of sunscreen while at the beach. (nothing wrong there)

"My manager’s a typical local howlie - a reetard,’ Buddy said. ‘Fondles the help. Always cockroaching booze. Sniffs around the guest rooms" (racial slur)

Its all in the context, I may get flamed like a mofo but I think its time we stop trying to be so PC that we miss the meaning and context of what is actually being said.

[trumad]

107. What's wrong with thought?

Hey just a couple of weeks ago I used the term Bitch quite frequently... I read the posts on DU discussing the term and decided not to use it anymore. So I put this out and wonder if folks think it's a slur. So far there's not that much oppositon to the word which means it's not that bad...So, my questions pretty much been answered and now I can make a semi-informed decision to use it or not.

Just learnin...Just Learnin

[MichaelHarris]

108. I don't think

the "B" was necessarily a bad word either, once again it depends on the context. I never used it here but I see where its a banned word now so I won't.

[corporatewhore]

98. it might be offensive to some but lets not equate with

spic wetback or nigger. I would totally find it offensive if some one tried to equate them with yuppie

[Nikia]

109. It's an offensive word

We use it in the rural Midwest to describe a particuliar type of person. In a way it is a class term, but not every working class rural person is a redneck. It is an attitude that is a stereotype that fits some people. Yes, I have referred to people as rednecks behind their back when talking with non rednecks and it wasn't a compliment. I don't say that proudly.
I think any blanket term that is used by a person to imply that a person is inferior to them isn't a good term to use in mixed company or to call someone. If you must use terms to put someone down use clear adjectives such as mean, ignorant, xenophobic, rude, conservative, angry, or loud not words that relate to class, gender, ethnicity, race, or other group status even if you don't use such words to describe everyone in that group. If you wish to use such words in private with people who know what you mean and will not be offended, that is your own business.

[QC]

110. Excellent point. There are plenty of perfectly good words

for denouncing people who do evil things without our having to resort to the freeper tactic of hitting people on the group into which they were born.

[matcom]

113. wooohoooo MORE banned words!!!!!

:bounce:

unleash the speech police!!!!!

has anyone started writing the DU dictionary? the one that lists all the BANNED words? probably be thicker than Websters

:eyes:

[Selwynn]

114. If your words are hurtful, derogatory and offensive to others...

...why would you be so upset about not using them?

I never really thought about redneck being offensive to some people, but I was put in my place a while back. Now that I know it is to some, I wouldn't deliberately try to offend them with its use. It's such a small thing to ask, to try not to hurt the feelings of others. I'm willing to make the sacrifice, and am surprised that it poses such a problem for you.

The "speech police" also known as the "pc police" is just another right wing lie used to demonize people trying to ask open and honest questions about gender, cultural, ethnic and sexual orientation sensitivity in this complicated world. As a person protected under the first amendment, you are of course free to say most things, but just because we can doesn't mean we should. Why say things that you know hurt people. If I was to private message you and tell you that the term "redneck" really hurt me, would you write me back and say "fuck you, I'll say whatever I want whenever I want to and you should get over it" or would you care and try to make REASONABLE accommodation for my sensitivity? Of course it must be "reasonable" and of course that's a grey area, but still... I fail to see why discussions like the one in this thread create responses like yours.. ?

[Angelus]

117. Here in Minnesota...

when I use the term redneck, I usually mean it in a derogatory manner. That's because the rednecks I speak of are all repukes. They are avid gun owners, they think women should be locked in the kitchen and making food, they get drunk everyday, they claim that they're avid Christians, and they all support Bush 100%. :grr:

But in all honesty, if this is another one of those "let's ban this word from DU" thread, than I'm against it. I don't think words should be banned.

That's just my 2 cents.

[bigbillhaywood]

119. NO! Trailer Trash refers to someone's class background, redneck does not.

Although mouse7 argues correctly that "redneck" was originally a put-down against farm workers, it does not have that meaning today in common usage. Redneck in every day usage generally means "ignorant", "hick", "racist", or "ignorant racist hick". The point is it's a slur, but a slur that attacks someone for their beliefs and attitudes rather than their race or class.

If this word gets banned from DU, there will be nothing left here but a bunch of PC college lefty liberal wusses.

[QC]

120. But what does it tell you if a word that originally referred

to poor rural people now applies to ignorant racists?

It strongly suggests that the two are closely identified--that, in the speaker's opinion, to be poor and rural is to be ignorant and racist.

That is often true, but it ignores the fact that lots of rich, educated people--the people who hold real power in this country--are racists as well. Read T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound, whom no one would call rednecks, and you'll find casual anti-Semitism that will curl your hair. And do you really think that poor people in the sticks are running those Fortune 500 corporations that have so few minority executives? Did people who didn't even have indoor plumbing until recently make the banks redline black customers for all those years?

But, unfortunately, identifying racism with the rural implicitly assumes all those things by implying that the center of America's racial ugliness is not the boardrooms and the legislatures, but a trailer park somewhere in Mississippi, inhabited by people who can barely put food on the table.

And for the record, I don't support banning any word. Free speech works both ways--people are free to say offensive things and I'm free to call them on it.

[matcom]

127. your use of "Trailer Park" is deeply offensive to me

i would ask that you stop using it on these boards.

they are "Mobile Homes"

therefore, please from now on use the term "Mobile home parks"

thank you

[QC]

131. I was referring to an attitude that I am criticizing here.

I have lived in trailers before and I'm considering doing it again, since houses are so damned expensive.

Now would you like to comment on the substance of the post? Please feel free.

[matcom]

132. nope

did that ad nauseum during the "bitch" fiasco. there isn't any point.

i'll stick to worrying about things that are important in this fucked up world while you all have heated arguments about verbage on an internet message board. :eyes:

[QC]

134. How noble of you!

If only we could all have your brave high-mindedness!

[matcom]

135. maybe someday - keep trying

and eat your veggies. that'll help

[Angelus]

145. matcom...you're the man!

Yes, there are way more important issues to discuss in the world than banning and wasting internet bandwith talking about a stupid freaking word on an internet message board. Yes, these are stupid words and phrases. I don't know why these petty issues with words and phrases keep coming up.

There are far more important things for us to discuss instead the usage and appropriateness of the words "redneck" or "bitch."

[QC]

156. Language is never trivial

because it shapes the way we think and the way we perceive the world.

Why do you suppose it is that our enemies in WWII were "nips" and "huns"? Why were the Vietnamese "gooks"? Why were "search and destroy" missions renamed to "sweep and clear"? Why are bodybags now called "transfer tubes"? Why does Bush come out with such crap as a "Clear Skies Initiative" and a "Healthy Forests Initiative"?

Because language shapes perceptions.

Or if that isn't a good enough reason to think about such things, then how about plain old-fashioned good manners? Why offend people when there's no need to? Is it really so important to you to be able to call people rednecks and bitches that you're willing to alienate people on your own side to do it?

[MichaelHarris]

136. I would like

trailer home to be refered to as "tornado food" and trailer park to be refered to as "tornado buffet" from now on, thank you

[matcom]

138. i am afraid that i am offended by your use of the term "buffet"

for that automatically implies restaurants such as Denny's and Sizzler which are prevalent in and around "mobile home parks" and therefore could be slurred.

thank you.

[MichaelHarris]

139. I am deeply offended by

the use of the word "sizzler", its derogatory to extremely hot women and/or extremely gay men.

[matcom]

140. on tonights episode of "Queer Eye For The PC Guy"............

Markus shows our "guy" how to 'sizzle' without offending the neighbors

[MichaelHarris]

141. LOL

I'm straight but I wish I could sizzle

[matcom]

142. you and me both brother

although the mrs tells me i still 'sizzleher' :)

[MichaelHarris]

143. freaky thing

I was working on the guinea pig nail picture and I typed in nail pictures. I got a link to she-males with finger nails.

[matcom]

144. i think that picture would be PERFECT

for THIS thread :D

[MichaelHarris]

146. hhahahahaha

yer right and get my 3rd post of my life deleted

[matcom]

147. chickenshit

note: i do NOT intend to offend either chickens OR their shit with the above statement.

[MichaelHarris]

148. hahahahha OK

I'll do it. Am I gonna get banned?

Hey wait, that means I'll have to see the pictures and well ummmmm

[matcom]

149. like you haven't already printed them out

on photo-paper :D

don't do it. you KNOW the results won't be good :hi:

especially not in a REDNECK thread

[MichaelHarris]

150. hahahahahaha ok

heres one

[matcom]

151. hahahahahahaha

nice YAMS!!

[MichaelHarris]

152. wonder if he's seen that yet? n/t

[ronzo]

126. If you mean it as a slur, it's a slur.

And most times I've seen it used around here, it is meant to slag. I've lived in the south most of my life and went to Ole Miss. It certainly doesn't bother me, but I'll reiterate, If you use the word to demean somebody, well, that makes it an insult. Quite simple.

As for banning words at DU, bah, I still think that's just silly.

cheers,
ronzo

[bhunt70]

128. yes of course it is.

[BenDavid]

137. Definitions:

Well, let me put it like this: The diffence between a good old boy and a red neck: Good old boys raise livestock, a red neck gets emotionally involved.

[greatauntoftriplets]

153. When the people you describe as "redneck" bother to vote,

they vote Democratic.

If it is intended as a slur, it will be taken as a slur.

[bigwillq]

154. I didn't read any of the other posts on this thread yet so

if someone already said this I apologize

But my mom's friend (who is black and from Atlanta) said black folk use to call the white folk red neck because when the white folk where on the farm and had a t-shirt on only the back of their neck would burn from the sun so that's why the name started--is this true?

[bigwillq]

155. OK post #19 cleared my question up

Sorry about the dupe. Our stories match so that's cool.

[Hippo_Tron]

157. Nope, BTW I've seen rednecks in New York state...

They had no problem with the term.

[SoCalDem]

158. Semantics always divide people.. Poor is Poor

whether you are white, black or brown. The poor in ANY group are looked down upon by the "upper-crusties", so within the "lower" group, the "definitons" arise.. The "poor white trash", "trailer trash", "cracker" labels still imply WHITE..and that they are somehow "better" than the people with darker skins, who just happen to be as poor as they are..

Just another way to divide the very people who need to band together..
Can you imagine how much things could change if ALL the poor banded together for a real change in government??

Instead, the people who have the power just continue to foment differences, because it suits their agenda...