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Can the US ever regain credibility after the atrocities of Abu Ghraib?

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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:37 AM
Original message
Poll question: Can the US ever regain credibility after the atrocities of Abu Ghraib?
Can you US ever regain credibility after the atrocities of Abu Ghraib?
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, but..
it will take a situation where the US is truly needed and rises to meet that need.

Failing that, I think anti-Americanism meshes too well with local pride and parochialism to dissapate with a simple change of course.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, in time...
... but only if the country does change direction, domestically and internationally. If the status quo continues with new names in government, the situation will not improve.

As long as we continue to use the military for the purposes of advancing American interests around the world, the rest of the world will rightly continue to accuse us of imperialism.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I wonder if the next administration (Kerry) will be set up to fail after
this. Even with a new course in foreign policies, I think that the world will stil look to the US with suspicion and disgust. I hope I'm wrong. But this current administration has really devastated the US.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. The root causes for Bush's wars...
... are that corporations have taken control of what little passes for policy-making in the Bush administration, and because Bush encouraged them by putting so many corporate reps in important positions in government. After all, imperial and fascist tendencies have their origins in the desires of the elite to make even more money without regard for the consequences.

Kerry has no choice but to distance himself from corporate influence in order to prevent the government from operating pretty much as it has in the past two decades, independently of whatever he believes. If he believes that he can somehow be for the ordinary person and for corporate interests, too, he's already deluding himself. If he obtains office, there will be debts to be paid, just as almost every other politician has discovered in the past two or three decades.

Kerry believes he needs to be "strong on defense," but that invariably is code for "the military-industrial complex continues as usual." If the rest of world believes Kerry won't change the most fundamental of America's problems because he's beholden to the fat cats in our society, or to the Saudis, because they have oil, he won't change the situation internationally.

He has to say that imperialistic actions, such as "pre-emptive war," will bankrupt us, morally and literally, and he has to say that the US has been corrupted by false patriotism and imperial ambitions.

That he has to say that without alienating the fence-sitters is the political trick of the day. Can he do it? I don't know. If he can propose a workable plan to extricate the country from Iraq without prompting a protracted civil or religious war there, he'll get international support, and maybe enough domestic support to win. But, he can't continue to say that his vote to effectively allow Bush to wage war without oversight was misused by Bush. He has to say, flat-out, that he didn't anticipate the damage Bush would cause, that his vote was wrong, and that Congress must retake its Constitutional role regarding war-making powers.

He has to, in effect, before the election, begin to deny and disabuse the Presidential powers Bush has accreted to himself. Kerry has to say, specifically, that he will rescind all the executive orders which have given Bush too much power, that he will work to rescind the PATRIOT ACT and start over with Constitutional rights clearly in mind, that he will spend his first year undoing the damage Bush has created, domestically and internationally.

And yet, I don't think he will do any of those things. It's a sad fact of American life today that no one rises to the position of president without acquiring considerable baggage. Will I vote for him to get the Republican neo-cons out of office? Yes, of course. But, I won't think the problem solved simply because a conservative Democrat is running things.

The rest of the world will think that way, too.

Cheers.

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Kenneth ken Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. yes
Edited on Sat May-08-04 12:59 AM by Kennethken
Germany and Japan were both rehabilitated and regained credibility; both went through basic structural, as opposed to merely cosmetic, reform to achieve that. The US needs to do the same.

We need to live up to our ideals as a nation of, by and for the people; jettisoning the reality of a nation of, by and for corporate profits.

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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think it'll take a good couple of decades, even in the best case
But yeah; if Germany could do it, we can do it. Eventually.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. not unless the underlying world view guiding both political parties . . .
undergoes some very deep and fundamental changes . . . don't see that happening soon, if ever . . . unless there's some kind of real populist uprising that throws all the bastards out . . .
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, with a new administration
that would show that we are serious about wanting to make up the for the ugliness, clean out the whole dirty lying bunch that is in now.
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dand Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. When we replace the war criminals in the administration
and become a member of the world community again, but we will be under suspicion for the next fifty years.
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. Only if
I used to think just electing Kerry was going to be enough -- but after Abu Ghraib, it will not suffice. The ante has just gone up by an order of magnitude.

The Americans have inflicted humilation on the Iraqis, and by extension all Muslims -- and in an honor-based culture, there is but one remedy for it -- violent revenge.

Only way we can prevent this from exploding out of control at this point is to take it upon ourselves to impeach Bush et al and indict him for war crimes. *That* may provide satisfaction to the offended.

The Bushistas are now completely bankrupt. There can be no more persuasion -- the only thing they have left is pure destructive force.

They have set us on a disastrous course. The war, and our relations with the rest of the world, just got a LOT worse last week.

The Bushistas cannot turn this around -- it is impossible.

The only way we can hope to prevail in this war and survive as a credible leader in the world is to demonstrate our moral leadership by impeaching Bush et al and indicting them for war crimes.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. YES...see my other post
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