Lynndie England charged!!!! the bastards

[markomalley]

---

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Army Pfc. Lynndie England, shown in photographs smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners, was charged Friday by the military with assaulting the detainees and conspiring to mistreat them.
(remainder snipped)

---

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9210-2004May7.html

Those bastards. How dare they charge the private, when the generals and the political appointees are the ones who set up the environment that enabled her!

Figures...damned rethuglicans are going to make the enlisted pay and let the privileged officer class go on doing what they were doing before.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. She has to be charged

even if her responsibily is far less than oh Rumsfeld who should be
facing an Intermational Military Tribunal (IMT) a-la Nuremberg

[Not Me]

2. I was watching Bill Moyers (NOW) with Paul Gigot

and he said that the chain-of-command will be indicted when the enlisted people begin to squeal.

[Oddman]

That was a great show this week!

Moyers took Topo Gigot to task. He was great! Kudos Mr. Moyers!!

[aquart]

12. Gigot also defended keeping Rumsfeld

Because firing his ass would be an admission that the war was a failure and the whole miserable mission a bad idea. Which would be bad for George's reelection.

So Paul would throw away the honor of the United States and the lives of its citizens to put Bush on his throne one more time.

[Oddman]

35. Yeah - amazing huh?

Now THAT is blind patriotism!!!

[keithyboy]

43. "If" the enlisted begin to squeal.

There are enough dittoheads and rednecks among them to never "squeal."
They would rather take the hit than blame Bush, Cheney, or Rummy

[Nlighten1]

3. Typical.

I took a hit for a Captain and and Master Sargeants fuckup when I was in the Army. At the same time I think it is a little early in the investigation to say they won't go after anyone higher. That being said, look for some low ranking officer like a Lt. Col to take the hit.

[sasquatch]

4. This is "A Few Good Men" all over agian

Except the pink tutu Democrats don't have the sac that the character Tom Cruise was playing.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. I think that the buck will not stop there

This is too big. Heads will roll, and farther up the chain of command.

[markomalley]

7. In what life...

...they always take care of each other. No...this will be another scandal for the enlisted working class people. Keep the bourgeoisie officer corpse clean and pure...

[Khephra]

18. I agree...you always start at the bottom and work your way up

That's the method almost every investigation of any type uses. You get those on the lower end of it all pressured with charges and many of them will start to talk. It's one of our legal forms of torture.

(sarcasm off)

If you're going after the King, you have to take out his support structure. As much as I hate the Bushies, I don't believe they're the whole of our justice system. It's being influenced by them, but not totally under their control. There has to be people in our system trying to learn the truth about it all, and I think it will eventually be known to all...whether that will help or hurt during the elections, who knows?

[ant]

34. My Lai

I'm not sure there's much of a comparison to be made with what happens on the ground in war vs. what happens in a prison (other than the fact that Hersh wrote on both stories), but if I remember correctly the Lieutenant in charge of the platoon was convicted but his captain was not.

Then again, the fact that this did take place in a prison where people have time to think vs. "in the fog of war" might make a difference.

[KoKo]

6. If she has a good lawyer , she will get off and it will go to the top.

I think she's notorious enough she might even get Dershowitz to defend her. He was the famous attorney who was "promoting torture." This is a perfect case for him.

Don't worry about "little Lyndie" she will come out of this just fine.

Martha's going to jail, but Lyndie will survive without doing time, methinks....

[seattlesteph]

8. The Smirking Jezebels From The Appalachians

The Smirking Jezebels From The Appalachians

Tory wierdo Boris Johnson coined the above phrase in his now infamous apologia for supporting the war. It's facile and silly, but it made me realize that the two most vivid symbols of the war are two 21 year-old female soldiers from West Virginia --- Jessica Lynch and Lynndie England --- one blond, one brunette, one the embodiment of American goodness, the other the hated representive of America's dark side.

It appears that the line between good and evil can run right down the center of one little state --- a little state that was created during the civil war when those appalachians refused to join the confederacy. Perhaps it is, and always been, the beating heart of America, warts and all.

From the incomparably Digby - http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

[Failure]

19. I grew up in a place like that, but in Ohio...I have all my teeth...

j/k West Virginians...

very politically divided area. it runs real deep there.


shrub..."the great uniter"...of the world against us.


failure.

[ikojo]

9. She and all of the others could have refused those orders

She chose to do what she did to those prisoners. Charge her and charge the higher ups.

I have no pity for Ms England.

Following orders is no defense when it comes to war crimes.

[markomalley]

13. I have no sympathy either...but I also don't want to see her

scapegoated to take pressure off of her chain of command...

[Sparkly]

15. Exactly.

They're starting at the bottom to see how high up they need to go. They'll stop as soon as they can.

Rummy should be the first to go!!

[markomalley]

21. Almost right.

They'll stop as soon as the media forgets about it. We mustn't let that happen. Keep the pressure on the b*stards so they keep pressuring the Pentagon. Maybe this will stop once * is in jail!

[Curious Dave]

22. Exactly Right

The "I was just following orders" defense didn't work in Nuremberg and it shouldn't work here.

In fact, a little known tidbit... Under Military Law (I served 21 years, I know of what I speak here) a service member is under moral and legal obligation to not obey orders they reasonably feel to be unlawful. Now granted, the service member does this at their own peril, but in this case...? Come on there isn't a military commander in the country stupid enough to prosecute someone for refusing to torture and abuse prisoners!

[markomalley]

24. You're right...but still

the ones giving the orders need to be nailed to the wall just as hard as the ones accepting the illegal orders (or harder imho)...I don't want to see the peons taking the rap for the O-6's.

[Curious Dave]

27. Absolutely

No argument about that from this former enlisted man :)I think this will become way too big for the "Officer Protection Society" to be able to pawn off on some underling.

[BillZBubb]

44. With this bunch in charge, I don't buy your assertion.

I think they not only would, but have, prosecuted people for refusing to abuse prisoners. Of course those wouldn't be the charges, it would be more like violation of security rules or having porno on a computer. You know the bullshit they threw at a couple of guys from Gitmo who had the audacity to treat the prisoners there like human beings.

Still, no matter what the repercussions, a decent soldier would refuse orders to abuse people. At a very minimum they wouldn't be grinning in souvenir photos.

[rpannier]

26. AGREED

[Zero Gravitas]

46. She deserves to be charged

There is no excuse for what she and the others did (and I'm sure its far more than just 6 people) But that doesn't remove one iota of blame from Bush & Rumsfeld and the rest who are ultimately responsible for this.

[Failure]

10. No Way!! She was just following orders!!!

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.



failure.


(gotcha)

[Cleita]

11. Sexism. Oh me the sexism of it all!

She wasn't the only person there. Why aren't the names of the rest of them involved up there? Why are the pictures not shown of the OTHERS?

[senseandsensibility]

41. I agree

The males in the pictures are not getting this kind of attention. What's up with that?

[PragMantisT]

14. They'll lay off her. She's pregnant

WITH HER SUPERVISOR'S BABY!!!!

WTF is going on in Rummy's Army? uh, i mean *'s national guard?

[markomalley]

17. And the worst part is...

...that * made abortions illegal in military hospitals (what other choice does she have over there???)

I think it is the fault of the education they're receiving as kids.

[PragMantisT]

31. I think the worst part is there wedding picture.

The father is the one standing behind her in the now infamous picture.

How would you like to have that woman for a mom. Hopefully they will both be in prison and their child will be raised by Abullah and Pritty Ali.

[napi21]

16. Agreed. She had to be charged. Price you pay for being in

the pictures. I don't believe it will stop there though.

Everyone will squeal. The one I think you''ll hear about next is Brigadier General Karpinski. She's one I DON'T expect to keep quiet! At least from what I've seen of her, she's not going down alone!

[Khephra]

23. I saw General Karpinski the other day

I agree...she doesn't have that..."Bushie Unity", about her. Unless the Bushies get in touch with her and "remake" her--like so many other people have been remade is short periods--she'll take them down. How far down? I don't know.

[markomalley]

29. I saw her too...and she is trying to CYOA!

she is concerned for her own hide. She will sell out her command just to save her ugly self. Sorry,but she is a piss poor example of a GO if you ask me.

[Union Thug]

20. Good.. Now charge the rest of them...

She needs to be charged and locked away for years... And so does Bush, Rummy and everyone else responsible. NObody should be let off the hook in this one. All of them, soldiers and administration alike are reprehensible wastes of human flesh.

[corporatewhore]

25. theres a very special place in hell for her and all the other people

connected with this from bush down to the privates

[nomaco-10]

28. I can't believe anybody here would try to give Lynndie a pass......

Lynndie England was a willing participant in torture. There is nothing sympathetic about her plight and her willing participation in the torture of Iraqi civilians, in fact she seemed to relish and enjoy her tenure in the cell block at the prison. Sorry, but I just can't seem to muster up one ounce of sympathy for her sorry ass. She is evil incarnate spawned and encouraged by this administration and deserves no pass, period.

[markomalley]

30. Believe me...I am not giving her a pass...

...but I want those who gave the orders to pay as much or more than the ones who carried out the orders. Yes, both should suffer punishment, but BOTH should suffer, not just the peons.

[Lorien]

39. Amen

she's no better than any WWII Nazi thug. There is NO defense for the inhumanity she participated in that has brought such shame to our country!

[corporatewhore]

32. From the Bush to Lynndie anybody connected w/this autrocity needs to be

charged and locked away

[RC]

33. One way to keep this alive and before the public...

[calimary]

37. Another way to help that along: KEEP THIS CONTACT LIST HANDY.

If the public makes enough of a stink about this, it will never go away. And by the way, I'm glad they've filed charges against Pointy Girl. But they damned well better not stop there. Going UP, anyone?

Here's how to further that along... as of First Thing Monday Morning:

PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!

OR, TRY (877) – 762 – 8762. It’ll get you there, too! (Thank you, DUer redqueen!)


Please note, here, The World's Greatest Lists of Media Contacts – updated May 5, 2004– in the following thread:

LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1533796#


IF THEY THINK WE DON’T CARE, THEY WON’T, EITHER!

[LizW]

36. She has to be charged

That's how it's done. You charge the little fish to have some leverage to get her to rat out the bigger fish. That's the only way you get to the top. It's not like the generals and Rumsfeld are going to just confess.

And it's not like England wasn't involved. She has to be charged based on the pictures alone, to get to the bottom of this sordid mess.

[Solly Mack]

38. ALL the guilty, the culpable...no matter the rank or cabinet position

should be charged.

[Kinkistyle]

40. Its time for her to start trickling the blame up!

If Lynndie England is smart, and I am in serious doubt of that unfortunately, but if her lawyer is halfway competent, they should start pushing the blame upward to her direct superiors. So that it will be necessary to start subpeona or charge the people above her, and just rinse and repeat til we get to Cheney and/or Bush :D

[LoZoccolo]

42. Am I the only one that feels like going...

:eyes:

[The Lone Liberal]

45. Hell, its not the Officer Class it is the damn CIA.

This has their fingerprints all over it. Torture is their main commodity.