How could we be so naive and foolish to think something good....

[kentuck]

might come from an illegal invasion and something that was so wrong from the beginning? I'm trying to think of the perfect analogy but I'm sure some brilliant mind will assist us in that effort.... It would be like jumping in a foul-smelling stagnant swamp and expecting to come out clean and smelling like a morning shower. It just isn't going to happen.

It was doomed from the beginning. There are basic laws of nature. You cannot jump in a fire and not get burned. You cannot jump in an ocean and not get wet. You cannot invade a country preemptively and expect roses and chocolate bars, no matter how vile their leader or dictator. We are only reaping what our leaders have sown. You cannot kill thousands of people and expect their families to love you. And the one rule of war that was overlooked - nothing is predictable.

[MsMagnificent]

1. How? GOD

Yep, dear old God!

IMO of course.... and yes yes yes I am a Christian
but I Believe FULLY in the separation of Church and State!!!

Bush is on a first-name basis with God you know.
He talks to Him all the time.
Or should we say God chose Bush?

JESUS would have voted for Bush, don'tcha know?!

These people deluded themselves that they were On A Holy Mission From God

It was a "Great Crusade" (an ill-omened analogy that Bush didn't want to drop)

It's happened all through the centuries.
The Inquisition. Auto-da-fe.
The Crusades.
The Childrens Crusades.
The Mormons travels & persecutions. And their polygamy.
The Hebrew's blew it for themselves & were enslaved oh about, 3000 years ago. The Temple destroyed & the diaspora.
The Puritans.
Henry VIII & the new, improved C of E and the wars and deaths THAT caused.
The Nazi's and their Final Solution.
The atheistic Communists & their OWN religious persecutions.
The Taliban.
Sharia.
Witch persecutions in America, France, England, Germany, more...
SO many more.....

Seems like these GOD-FEARING people FORGOT that "Judgment is mine, saith the Lord"
--NOT Theirs!
They FORGOT that 'the sin of PRIDE goeth before a fall!'
They FORGOT how HUMBLE they were supposed to be!

These are the same people who are SO SELF ASSURED that their souls are driven-snow pure and morally superior and irreproachable that they WELCOME the 2nd Coming of the Lord and want to HASTEN IT ALONG!

They FORGOT the PROUD man in front of the church telling God how GOOD he was, while the HUMBLE man sat in back of church and said "Lord, I have sinned. Forgive. Just say the word and my soul shall be healed"
(It was the guy in back who was Saved, btw. The one in front didn't make the cut)

THEY FORGOT THAT JESUS DIDN'T *CARE* ABOUT POLITICS OR THINGS OF THIS EARTH,
JESUS WAS DISTINCTLY APOLITICAL
-- "RENDER UNTO CAESAR WHAT IS CAESAR'S. RENDER UNTO GOD WHAT IS GOD'S"


(these are all paraphrases to one extent or another - if you really WANT I can look the chapter & verses up; but I guarantee they are definitely there as quoted in the Bible)

[Wapsie B]

2. The thing that angers/frightens me

is the fact that by these actions chimpy and the gang have virtually guaranteed that we will see terrorism on these shores. Our occupation of Iraq has served to create another generation of people who will loathe our country and will stop at nothing to exact their retribution.

[Cleita]

3. Karma.

Or in countryspeak,the chickens are coming home to roost.

[DrWeird]

4. Who thought something good would come of it?

I always thought it was obvious that nothing good would come of it.

[DianeG5385]

5. I NEVER thought THAT!

I remember crying as the war became inevitable and most of my family was CASUAL about the thought of going to WAR. I guess the media propaganda machine did their job well. This nation is definitely NOT, I repeat NOT a bunch of critical thinkers, much less independent thinkers.

[kentuck]

9. I was not referring to DUer's ....sorry for the misunderstanding..

DU'ers are the most honest people on the Net. They say what is exactly in their hearts. We were not wrong. We were the canaries in the mines. But we were outnumbered...

[chookie]

12. Ah -- but we are NOT outnumbered.

Outgunned, yes. But not outnumbered.

If the wackos managed to seize hold of power in the USA, it's because sane people have not participated as fervently in elections as they have.

[Sparkly]

6. I knew this administration would be bad

but they've exceeded ALL expectations. I can't imagine how they could have done any worse.

[DianeG5385]

8. Words Fail Me

I said the same to my sister tonight, that even in my most fevered imagination of what the Bush* admin was capable of, this atrocity in Iraq exceeded all expectations in the most awful way.

[newsguyatl]

7. kentuck, you always

come up with the best posts...

thank you.

[kentuck]

10. Thank you, newsguyatl !

That warms my heart. :) Your posts can be quite memorable also.

[chookie]

11. Whattya mean "we," Kemosabe?

Ha ha.

They all knew nothing good was going to come out of this. But they wanted their war.

Trouble is, you can't sell an immoral pointless war to the American people and expect them to buy it.

That's why they LIED. That's why they hammered us with "Saddam is behind Sept 11" and "Saddam is planning an imminent attack on US soil."

My dear Kentuck -- they certainly were warned about what would happen. Not all opposition to this war came from peaceniks and
Bush haters -- some came from deep within the Pentagon, or from military strategists, or from people who specialize in rebuilding shattered nations. The frigging War College warned them, for crying out loud! Brent Scowcroft warned them, for crying out loud.

But they rushed us into war in Iraq on false premises, to get their war and their war contract, PLUS to commence the PNAC plan. I think they based their misunderstanding that it was going to be a "cakewalk" on info about just how inadequate the Iraqi army was to repel an invasion, plus BS from Challabi, etc.

Remember -- a year ago they were laughing at us for being so worked up about Their Sure Thing.

Remember when they didn't find WMDs, and the Flying Monkey Brigage reponded by saying "Who cares? Saddam Hussein himself was a WMD!"

When the WMD failed, then they had to turn it into a Moral Crusade. Trouble is -- with the revelations of misconduct and corruption, they have lost this premise as well. So bizarre to see people like Rush saying stuff like "Who cares? This stuff is strictly small-time frathouse-style pranks." As if, who gives a shit about a moral crusade -- this is all about US power and subjugation, suckas!

They have recently become a bit more candid about having gone into Iraq as part of a "comprehensive plan to eradicate terrorism" -- aka the PNAC program. In other words, they keep sending out trial balloons and seeing which brand of bullshit people are going to buy.

Oh yes -- there is also the "civil rights" angle -- saying that if you oppose the war, you must not care about the rights of brown people, or saying the liberation of Iraq (aka the war) is the moral equivalent of the civil rights movement. So, if you oppose the war, or think Condi Rice is incompetent -- you must be a racist.

I doubt if there are many people in America who are as of today naive about this war. The war has gone totally belly up. The only people who are still backing it at this point are the Flying Monkeys and Armageddonists.

[kentuck]

13. You are right, chookie...

It was going to be a "slamdunk".... We tried to prevent it from happening but we failed...

[seabeyond]

14. every step of every now i can see a higher in all

it is if whomever choses it. free will

can walk this in anger, fear.........or learn from the lesson. then it is not a waste of human life and all the woes this creates. it is ours to chose. and the more that chose the higher the more it spreads

this is the universal, the macro that happens is the micro of life. we can see what this is all about and bring it to the individual and how we chose to live life

my sons have gained a lot of lesson and insite in life they will take to adulthood as have i

iraq has gotten a pretty good lesson, and what they can create of this

a humility we as a people can accept, truely look at who we are as american. one of the oddest is hearing so many say this is not the america i thought we were. i say this is exactly the america we have created. we did this. all of us.

i also see the extremism in right, their poor choices every step of the way, the obvious could be a wonderful lesson

absolutely i can see this as grand, but then i am not afraid. i was also able to see the opportunities and gift in 9/11. we just chose fear instead of love and uniting hand in hand across the world. that one could have been huge. it wasnt what we chose. we chose anger and arrogance and revenge