Critical Thinker Challenge

[BeHereNow]

Here is what I consider a very valid question.

WE, who are in essence "laymen" and outsiders in the
geo-political sphere, for years, have been able to research and
thus conclude obvious summations of the abberations connected to our "corporazoni"
and fascist government.

From the roof top of our DU house, we have shouted and railed
against the travesties and hypocrisy.

Those on the "inside" were well versed in the facts long
before us.
They knew and they complied.
The media knew.

Ask yourself this question:
Why is the truth now being revealed?
Who is behind the recent series of events? ( revelations and admission of Bush lied)
what is the objective of the people in power.
We know from our past observations that this is not simply a case of
the media suddenly feeling an obligation to tell the truth-
they have clearly been instructed to report these things.
The real question is not about the Bush Cabal and their outrageous
behavior.
The question is WHO is behind allowing it, then squelching it, and what do
they have planned next?
It is no accident, this recent media "revelation" about the
Cabal's criminal activities, of that you can rest assured.

Is any one else looking at this?

I would love to hear your thoughts.
Clearly the evident players are not THE players.
Just puppets on the strings of an invisible master.
WHO is really running the show?

And in viewing the situation, ask yourself,
in whose interest?

BHN

[a_random_joel]

1. Interesting analysis

I believe fromthewilderness.com has something like what you hypothesize on their site.

I am not discounting what you are saying, but it really is a mindbender, and I'm not sure I can accept it at this point. Perhaps more importantly, there is not a damn thing that can be done about it...

[BeHereNow]

4. Smoke and Mirrors

It is simply NOT reasonable or logical to accept that
oh, all of a sudden, the media tells the world what we knew
all along.

I do not for a moment believe that there is not a
deeper and darker force at work.
The force that put GWB in the presidency in the first place.
The force that has now set the dominos to fall.
The force that has suppressed and now, instructed the media
to reveal.

I am afraid that we are being manipulated- again.
I am afraid that while the smoke and mirrors have attracted our
attention, the REAL hell is taking firm root.

THINK it through.
This recent admission is just toooooo easy, therefore, I can
only assume, carefully orchestrated.
Question on my mind:
Who is conducting the orchestra.
Methinks Bush SR and his well trained band of flying monkeys.

The best advice, universal as a matter of fact, given to those in
battle with the force of good and evil:
KNOW THE ENEMY.

I feel that the REAL enemy is invisible, and therefore,
unbeatable.
We must dig deeper.
BHN

On edit: Taking dog to vet , in a hurry, thus, many typos...gah, forgive.
I

[rock]

2. OK, let's keep it simple

The media can tell which way the wind is blowing. They may be Conservative Whores but they're Whores first.

[cog_diss]

3. but that skirts the question

who blows the wind? The "american street" or the old guard powers that be who might be thinking that Bush and his privateers have had enough of a rampage and need to be railed in before they spoil it for the rest of them.

I am of the opinion that as soon as any President gets sworn in he gets taken to a meeting and is told "OK, this is how we run things."
Bush jr got a lot of passes for his family connections, but his family ain't the oldest crime family out there. Time for a bit of correction maybe?

That Rockefeller IS an intriguing character... just saying, nothing implied ;)


On Edit: Cheney is the one to watch. Exactly on what level is he an evil, manipulative !@#$%^&*

[BeHereNow]

9. INDEED!

"Who blows the wind???"

Analogy for possible scenario-
I want to sell you a rabid dog
I know you won't but it.
I show you a retarded dog.
You reject it.
Suddenly, the rabid dog looks GOOD.
Especially since I have trained it to look good
in comparison to the retarded dog.

Who's on next?
THAT is the question.

It's obvious Bush is going down- he is the retarded dog.
My question, now that all this lovely 1984 legislation is in place:
Who is the RABID dog?
My guess is Kerry.
Never forget the wolf wears a sheep's clothing.
That's how he gets into the flock.

BHN

[PurityOfEssence]

5. The truth can no longer be contained

Thinking--from their extraordinary run of luck--that they were invincible, the gangsters of the "because I say so" administration thought they could get away with anything. When it became apparent that they needed realy sphincter-tightening fear to prize Congress' permission to go to war, they timed it for just before an election, knowing that the Dems would be desperate to get it over with so they could try to steer the debate to other issues. Unable to even queer the pitch enough after years of trying, they cobbled up quarter-truths and insinuation, topped off with outright lies.

Although the war went well enough, the world hatred and disdain was augmented by ongoing deaths and unrest in Iraq to cause a slight murmuring of dissent. Long having been subject to the thuggery of skewing their information on pain of career distruction, the intelligence community wised up for a second time, knowing that these weasels were preparing to hang them out to dry. (The first time was when leaks in spring '02 from the intelligence community refused to let the administration pin it on bad gathering.) True world patriotism, professional ethics, pride and self-preservation now drive the many from their cubicles to defend themselves.

Much as the right is in lock-step, enough know that this bunch is so deeply self-interested and unscrupulous that they are in danger too. All those people Cheney got to spill beans about personal baggage during the Vice Presidency search will love knifing him for this one.

Terrence Wilkinson is the key: if he steps forward and says again that Junior was told about the Niger documents being forgeries in open meetings TWICE, then demanding that someone step forward to lie/vouch for them, the administration cannot hold.

At this point, we must go for true impeachment. It might not work, but we will have every enabler of world domination by the short and curlies for the future. A simple majority is possible in the House. Can 2/3rds of the Senate be mustered? Don't be surprised. All eggs are in the Bush basket; there are no new Republicans of true power in the wings. It may be a way to power for enough Republicans to cleanse themselves and try to pop to the surface of a brave new sea. Do the math: we need to pick up 18 Senators. That's not impossible if it becomes a clear fact that we were lied to.

Let's see: Collins, Snowe, Chaffee, Lott (tee hee hee),

[reprobate]

21. I agree with your thoughts, POE, but consider this:

Not having been a conspiracy theorist before 01/01, I come to conspiracies reluctantly. Having said that, I truly believe that there is a quiet, but very influencial group of the very wealthy and very powerful in this country that are the real power behind politics.

Whether they are the "old guard" like the Rockerfellers, or the "new lions" like the Carlyle group, I don't know. I only know that it's very important to find out and do something to control them. We will never regain our democracy until we remove the profit motive from politics. To that end I have long been convinced that the one step that we must take is to make any political money contribution a federal felony. The problem is convincing the sheeple that it's better to use tax money to finance elections than to allow politicoes to solicit bribery.

Re: Impeachment. I agree that it's beginning to look doable, with the intelligence community turning enmass on bush. But let's not forget Crash Cart Cheney. The appelate court just said he has to turn over the documents of the energy committee as discovery. I think it quite possible that he will be forced to turn them over, or go to jail for contempt. I can only speculate on what will be revealed in those documents. There must be some absolutley damning shit in there.

....Sorry, was interupted. Never can ignore hearing Bo Diddley....

Anyhow, If those papers contain such stuff as I think they do (there would not have been such a fight if they don't) we may see the first ever double impeachment. And (crossing fingers) that could be followed by federal prison time for the whole administration.

But I'm slipping into my favorite erotic fantasy, Bush, Cheney, von Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, all playing wife to selected Bubbas behind large concrete walls with bars in the windows. I guess we all need our fantasies.

[Mz Pip]

6. One thought

If those on the inside downplayed their knowledge or didn't publicize the facts then the media probably might not catch on for awhile. This is a very secretive administration. They only let out what makes them look good. It worked for awhile but now the not so pleasant facts are spilling out and even the media is forced to wake up.

The issue is provable facts. It's a slow process getting those facts out, especially for us who have disliked Bush since day one. But it is happening. I think once the media gets it that they have been duped, they will not let up.

MzPip
:dem:

[annak110]

7. A valid question indeed!

I too have been increasingly curious and confounded by
this sudden media upchuck. I too will be watching and searching out possible causes.

[bpilgrim]

8. mike ruppert has actually called this... 'BEYOND BUSH'

7/1/03
BEYOND BUSH
Powers above the White House are deciding that it's time for the Bush gang to go. As a Watergate-style take down is being meticulously put into place, the question is not whether the Bush Administration will be removed before or after the 2004 election. The important questions are whether Bush's successor will address 9/11, Peak Oil, civil liberties, or any of the critical issues. What is being done even now to control the challengers in the Presidential election? A clandestine drama is unfolding and we'll help you understand it. This special free series is a must-read going into 2004.

July 1, 2003 - PART I - The anatomy of the coup against Bush. How it is being set-up as a form of damage control. How the press is building to a climax that may break even after Bush has won (bought or stolen) re-election. How the CIA is hanging Bush out to dry.

Coming in mid-July - PART II - The real state of the world and why the coup is necessary for Wall Street and the power brokers. How Bush's options in Iraq and everywhere else are being closed off by American power brokers. FTW will question spokespersons for every Democratic challenger to provide you with a detailed analysis of who they are and what they stand for. We'll also talk about how their campaigns are being influenced, guided and controlled. Don't get your hopes up. The one chance for real change is to use the energy of the coup to drag the secrets of 9/11 out into the open.

story...
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/070103_beyond_bush_1.html

bush has served his usfullness... they got the patriot-act, were in the ME for the forseeable future, and we have our new PREVENTIVE WAR policy in effect, they figure they can take it from here with a moderate - which is desperatly needed right now - before we stand completely alone in the world, which of course, would be very bad for bidness :shrug:

peace

peace

[BeHereNow]

11. BIG ole kiss to ya!

Gotta take the dog to the vet now-
Back later...lot's to say about this.
((((Hugs))))
BHN

[bpilgrim]

15. right back atcha *smack*

:loveya:

cya when you get back :hi:

peace

[BeHereNow]

26. $211.00 LATER...

Thank you for the smack-a-roo in return.
The dog had a piece of bone stuck in the
intestinal track- she will be fine, thanks to advanced
vet medicine-to the tune of two hundred and eleven
dollars.

Now, on to the issue at hand-
I personally think we are foolish to
focus on the media complicity in relatonship to the
"bush lied" report-
The point is, we KNEW, long ago that Bush and the Cabal
were lying- that much was obvious.
Sooooo, why the sudden admission by the corporately
owned press?
To what end?
That is where we should be looking.
I see that we are quick to jump on the bait,
but mindless, as to who is holding the pole.
Again, I say, given the administration at hand
and their history, Bush SR. is calling the dance.
Bush JR and his cabinet are nothing more than the
puppets.
In order to take back the country- we must
uncover, discover and discard the REAL
people in power.
No "conspiracy" here, just observations of how
corporations have taken control of our future.

BHN

[Cocoa]

30. yes "conspiracy theory" here

unless you "observed" Poppy gathering Jennings, Wilson, Levin, etc. in a room and giving them their orders, you're just speculating what this is about.

[tomp]

10. don't now about critical thinking but....

...it occurred to me moments ago on another thread that bush is being set up for a fall, big time, like assassination. they will blame it on al qaeda and there will be absolute chaos, the tanks will be in the streets, military law, cessation of all rights, and the fascists will be able to get away with anything.

bush really is the anti-christ and is being set up as the sacrificial lamb to die for the sins of the evil ones. all will be forgiven them.

what do you think, critical enough? that's today's fantasy scenario.

or how about the big money rules dems and repubs equally. they don't like where these particular agents are taking them so they're allowing their mask to be stripped away. notice how much they let them get away with before reigning them in. betcha no dem president gets us out of iraq or afghanistan.

[BeHereNow]

16. BEAST- REV 13

I think he is the beast spoken of in REV-13 actually.
Think of the appearance on the boat-
and the Isaiah 61 quote-
Gotta take Dog to the vet now..
Back later...
GAH! In the words of my teenager...
BHN

[proud patriot]

12. Great Questions

Why is the truth now being revealed? People are reaching critical
mass in discontent

Who is behind the recent series of events? ( revelations and admission of Bush lied)
what is the objective of the people in power.

To keep the boat afloat (so their comfy lives aren't altered)
To avert major social change avantaged to the majority.

The question is WHO is behind allowing it, then squelching it, and what do
they have planned next?

Well this is the toughest to answer..
Have the people been squeezed to the point of revolution yet,
will a small crumb distract? They must placate the public ,
to keep their power and they know it . They will do whatever
it takes to keep the social order them on top . Perhaps the
Distruction of the republican party through bush's demise allowing
911 and lying 'bout reasons for war is the plan . Tearing bush and
the party might just keep the people docile for a generation .

Just puppets on the strings of an invisible master.
WHO is really running the show? CIA NSA etc...The Shadow Govt.

And in viewing the situation, ask yourself,
in whose interest? Those who are on top and want to stay there .

IMHO

[tom_paine]

13. If this is true (and it certainly is possible)...

Then we are fucked. No escape, no release.

It also means that the Old American Republic was a joke to begin with.

I will not say it is categorically impossible, but I'd need to see more (like the predicted Bush Impeachment while the Totalitarian Party controls everything)...

You know, just to see that, it might be worth being a puppet for the Illuinati, or whatever such you're arguing.

[Cocoa]

14. the conspiracy thinking is counterproductive

There are things happening behind the scenes, for sure, but it's not a single entity, it's a very complicated mixture of different individuals and institutions.

The model of a single overarching conspiracy works to the advantage of the republicans, because it reinforces the idea that there's nothing we can do. It takes power away from the people.

[Octafish]

18. The root of Conspiracy means "to breathe together."

As you noted, Cocoa. The eye at the top of the pyramid is recognized by all and known to none.

BTW: One heckuva Thread.

[sendero]

20. I agree....

... I think the idea of a shadow gov't certainly cannot be just dismissed out of hand, but I doubt Bush*'s current situation has anything to do with some master force calling the shots.

I think it is much simpler. Everyone here say's "we knew" there were no WMDs/nukes, but that really isn't true. We just knew that Bush* had not made a reasonable case that they were there and that there was an imminent threat.

I think the simplest answer for the current change of tide (and I reject the idea this is a sudden decisive change, this has been building slowly for weeks) is the realization on the part of a LOT of people, in the military, intelligence, journalism fields that we are indeed in a quaqmire in Iraq. There is not going to be any easy way out. The lack of WMDs, which frankly I think has surprised a lot of people (remember, we are considered partisan wackos who cannot see reality if it were in front of our face) brings home the sad truth to anybody with a functioning brain - we've wasted lives, credibility and money and have basically accomplished nothing.

The idea that the media is some monolithic mouthpiece that can be totally controlled is simply not credible either. The media can be manipulated to some extent, but news takes on a life of its own sometimes and there is not a force in the universe that can control that.

IMHO of course.

[progressivejazz]

17. Your post is indeed a challenge to critical thinkers.

In that it consists of assumptions and speculations piled upon one another. I see no critical thought in it at all. Where are the facts?

[BeHereNow]

24. Facts versus JAZZ

Okay, I am going to assume by your DU handle that you
know something about music.

Fact- The notes were written a long time ago.
Fact- There has been no improvisation.

We, here at DU, have long said,
"Wait, the lyrics don't match the bars!
Something is not right here!"

And now, all of sudden the musicians on stage admit that
we were right all along?

The lyrics are in 4/4, and they have been playingin 3/4?
Point being- you have to be a REALLY good musician to
play off time on purpose.

Therefore, the question therefore remains-
WHO is leading the band?

If you are not a musician, forgive this post.
It is completely written in artist/abstract thinker language-
something recognizable by only .06 % of the population on the
entire planet.

BHN

[Iverson]

19. critical response

I am bothered by the structure of the query. It presumes a top-down structure that has the power to reveal information that I thought was observable by us li'l folk. Something like this...

"Why is the truth now being revealed?"

... assumes a single truth, with an agent (concealed by the passive voice construction) that has the choice to do the revealing.

In its place, I propose that a greater number of people are catching on to the obvious ramifications of various abuses of power that we marginalized lefties have been railing about for years. It isn't a matter of a hidden cabal revealing something to us all simultaneously.

Also, the identities of individual power brokers don't much matter. It's what happens that I care about.

[goforit]

22. Hmmm.....Great point.

I do believe that Poppy had a huge stake in this matter.

Yet given the top heads of oil industry giants.........
.........Iraq and Afghanistan are HUGE flops!!!!
Maintaining the flow of oil is gonna be a nightmare!!!

Boeing and Locheeed Martin won't be able to sell anything to any
country due to other Country's lack of trust for Bush and
these military contracters. The word is out that they can not be
trusted with machinery saturated with espiponage.

Monsanto??????......Well....Bullying the consumer to eat
Frankenstine food whether or not it is healthy, just doesn't
work.It has never worked and never will. When I went to Business school, Ethics was rule #1. Once you break the trust of the
consumer you will never get it back!!!

Retailers??? Developers???.....When you're out of a job, who is
going to shop??????

American Car manufacturers????? ........Refusal to step up to
a cleaner and more efficient machine, whether or not they've
been bullied by the Oil Industry, has their inventories stuck in MUD.
The majority voted for Gore probably due to the environment alone!!!
Who wants to be paying $1.75 a gallon while your sons and daughters loose their lives on the line and US Car manufacturers don't change
a damn thing?

Microsoft???......Who overseas wants their hardware or softwear when
they can't trust what you get?

Has this Administration turned the lights out on Business and
prosperity or what????

Well.......I wouldn't be surprised if industry heads all around
rally together to take care of this dire situation.

[leftyandproud]

23. it must be

"the NET"

It has changed everything.

[scipan]

25. modest proposal

There are some really intelligent posts on this thread. I especially like PurityOfEssence's. Here's just a modest theory:

Blair is being hung out to dry. Look at the facts: he's in real trouble, Bush isn't, at least not yet. Whatever else you think of Blair, most would agree that he's been a moderating influence on Bush. So who benefits if Blair goes, or is weakened? The hard liners. The neocons. Rummy, Wolfie, Perle...

I think Rumsfeld et al. are making yet another power grab. They've tried to discredit Colin Powell, e.g., before his UN show and tell, and Rumsfeld undercut Blair before the invasion when he said it was OK if Britain backed out. Remember?

I wouldn't have any trouble believing that the neocons in power take orders from invisible others, but even if true, you can't go from A straight to Z. It seems it's more like peeling an onion, or picking up a thread and following it...the PPT would be part of it, and the ones who control TIA (don't think it was killed), IMO. But this particular set of events may just be moves by a few people.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Hmmm

Ok I think that the "rulers" want to stay on top.They love that power and wealth.They will use anything to stay there even the truth.

Why now?

Well Ever see those dire predictions about global warming,deforestation,population growth ect.

Our Earth is being taxed to the limit.

Eventually all the people the consuming will collapse the ecological base on Earth.We will not have the resources to feed ourselves if we do not stop having kids.We will not have enough of the things that support life to go around.We in America live well because the 3rd world suffers.What if they were sick of suffering so that we In America can live as we do? Upwardly mobile people are loathe to share with those who cannot make do if it requires personal interaction. The elites are even more greedy and hypocritical.

This administration or the handlers of them want the economy to collapse but collapse slowly so there isn't as many riots,they want us to hurry up and die off in the least messy way.

They have through thier non-living fantasy on paper called corporationsand money have dominated people and nations.. through thier human frailties and capacity to believe lies and fantasies and not think too deeply,they have gotten enormous wealth and power from the backs of many people.They have consumed this planet.

All they gotta do is kill us off,without us catching on that they don't care or actually enjoy the deaths of less fortunate people,because they are that depraved, sick and sociopathic.The ogliarches will protect thier offspring from failure or loss and they will use thier loyal chronies to excuse them as they quietly retreat underground during the chaos or they may run off into space.Escape this earth,and the wrath of the shafted billions .Hiding out,running away with thier booty to find or make another habitable place( made with our tax dollars perhaps there is so much UNNACCOUNTABLE money in the military) or they may wait in secret rooms deep underground.They won't come out or return until the Earth regenerates itself, most of the living populations are dead,the wreckage is buried in huge floods brought about by global warming, and start the game called"civilization" all over again..building another power pyramid on the backs of believers that were conned to trust in them. The mythic noah's ark was constructed for"god's chosen"...and all the other people and animals died...in a flood.Reminds me of the dire warnings from global warming.

The kings and ogliarches hate the clamoring poor and the workers who care for each other they are raised to think they're entitled use up like slaves or cannon fodder..These elitist destroyer kings just want us to be obedient, stupid, unquestioning, simplistic servants , worker bees or human guns and targets with no sense of right or wrong patriotically,blindly.obediently fighting for thier empire conquests as if it was in thier own interests to die for an ugly corporate-industrial- military-political shell game..



I dunno entirely what the future holds but I do suspect rich ruthless evil people are evil enough to consume an entire planet to enrich themselves and keep power,they all want to live forever on the throne. These kinds of 'rulers' of men have done it to humankind for milleinia.Egypt,The Aztec empire,Rome ect.ect.ect.We were duped into compliance with something not in our own best interests called"empire"....In these sick social arrangements kings are pampered, trusted and respected when they are not worthy,while the subjects bowing to these creeps suffer and serve like abused children ,made so afraid of change and thier own empowerment,they stubbornly trust in the kings or"leaders" and die for them..willngly.

What if we stopped supporting them and thier culture and society?
What if we stopped serving,obeying ,believing and trusting in people who call themselves leaders and saviors of mankind?
What if we grew up? And walked away?

A sociopathic narcissistic child-king like rumsfeld would rather spoil the world than share it with those he deems"unworthy".

Just my speculations.

[deek]

27. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=111&topic_id=356&mesg_id=356&page=

[annak110]

29. CNN had at least one "answer " regarding what this

media turnaround will be used for. I don't watch T.V. "News"
but was channel surfing for something to watch and came across one of those "lets ask Bill Schneider" episodes (after 9:30 p.m. MDT, Tuesday). Bill Schneider is a long time rightwing shill so in answer to a couple of questions like, "What are the Democrats going to use these accusations for?" or, "why are the Democrats asking these questions?" Scneider answered by indicating that he wasn't sure because the Democrats should know they couldn't destroy Bush's credibility. And then he went on ad nauseam about how "the American People" believe in Bush and find him highly credible, etc.

I got out my shovel and changed channels...