shouldn't Kerry be on top of this prisoner abuse thing like

[Failure]

flies on shit? How can these repub's condemn kerry for testifying about war crimes back in the 70's???? I'm sorry I'm a little frustrated because it seems like issue, after issue, after issue, get spun away and forgotten. It's a repub. tactic, to keep issues alive, look, they're still talking about clinton!!

failure.

[hexola]

1. His voice won't enhance the outrage at all...

...and would potentially throw him "off-message"

This is not a partisan issue...

It's a repub. tactic, to keep issues alive, look, they're still talking about clinton!!

It's a losing tactic...

[Failure]

2. losing tactic? remember Dukakis? Cleland? n/t

[Tina H]

17. when you mentioned Dukakis I assumed . . .

you meant that the Dukakis experience lead you to believe that Kerry should be quiet about the sexual torture scandal.

I assumed you were referring to the infamous tank picture where Dukakis (unfairly, in my view) got in trouble for playing soldier.

Kerry probably should keep a respectful distance from nuts and bolts, ground level military affairs.

[Failure]

24. do you think JFK's talking tough enough? n/t

[Tellurian]

3. Another example of mismanagement of the Bush White House!!!

Crimes of Humanity are a BIG ISSUE...they happened on Bush's watch!

[hexola]

6. Do we need Kerry to tell us that...?

I think we all know...

[Failure]

28. two magic words: BUSH's Watch...

Let's use that as much as possible. chimpy holds the ultimate responsibility for all this shit. So let's tell it like it is. This all happened on bush's watch.

[Tellurian]

35. "On Bush's Watch" The Laundry List of Failures...

wonderful caption for a headline.

[Failure]

36. witty....(i get it) n/t

[Jacobin]

4. Might re-open his "atrocities" statement from the 1970's which

he has been backing away from.

I dunno..........just all seems so mushy. Gods I wish he hadn't voted for the IWR.

[Bread and Circus]

8. Yeah, it's funny that this is out when Karen Hughes is on all the talk

shows saying "Atrocities? What Atrocities? Kerry must
have a lot of nerve!"

[Failure]

30. I agree totally, I don't think he should've backed off his

70's testimony either. These things happen in all wars, what did he have to be ashamed of telling the truth?

and how about all those right wing shills, saying "oh, kerry called every soldier a criminal..." I thought those people only saw in black and white. crime is crime.

failure.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Nope. But every Dem in congress should be demanding a congressional..

investigation of the use of private contractors for "interrogation" sessions.

[Failure]

34. I second that...but you know it'll never happen (nt)

[Unknown Known]

7. He needs to stay away from this

because it would look like he's attacking the American soldier. NO. He should not go there. This is a matter for the Congress to jump on. Kerry needs to stay away from this.

Besides, I think this investigation will lead more to the question of using "contractors" in military positions which will uncover a lot of repuke dirty deeds. IMO.

[BeFree]

13. Exactly. Stay away.

The * cabal is looking as bad as they can already. Kerry is attacking on enough fronts already, no need to waste his time on a well saturated issue as this.

We, on the other hand, can attack, attack, attack. I mean, how bad does this make our country look? Like *, we are all pissed that our military could do something so dastardly. That's not the America we know and love!

[Failure]

32. What would we do if an enemy treated our soldiers like this?

just asking?

[hexola]

9. He was "on top of it"..30 years ago!!!

He was in better position (arguably) to speak out then...

[workforpower]

10. Help is here.

Sen. Kerry is success. You are Failure. It is just like that. It will be hard to understand.

[ButterflyBlood]

11. it'd be a bad move

it'd make it look like he's exploiting a serious but rather non-partisan issue for political purpose.

[stellanoir]

12. perhaps the best strategy would be to. . .

focus on the broader issue of the indisputable fact that the continued extreme mismanagement of the military and collosal bungling of the "occupation" will inevitably result in nominal re-enlistment and the reinstitution of the draft.

Or as Dr. Dean just so aptly put on O'Franken. . ."we cannot get out of Iraq with this president."

[Tina H]

14. Agree and disagree

If Kerry were to advocate that we pull out of Iraq and leave all nation building to direct UN control, then he might want to use the outrage over the latest attrocities as one of the reasons that his views have changed. It's not a "flip-flop," its a "I got new information and the new information has made me change my mind." Of course, there is other new information out there besides the sexual tortures: Saddam is out of pocket now, no WMD's, US not welcomed by the natives, cost of the war, etc, etc. I hope this is the way Kerry goes, but I am afraid he just isn't as anti-war as I am.

On the other hand, if Kerry says: the troops should stay in Iraq, but the president should supervise them more closely, then I think that would be counterproductive. On balance, people trust the military more than they trust anybody's presidential administration.

Of course, the irony is that many supporters saw the Iraq War as a religious crusade and that such gross sexual and masochistic immorality somehow came out of an expression of old-tyme relijun. However, that important point is probably better for the pundits to make than for Candidate Kerry to make himself.

[tinanator]

15. its called bipartisan support

you expecting a miracle or something?

[Ironpost]

16. Come on John Kerry

He needs to be on this story as well as a multitude of others, like a chickenhawk on a june bug.

[Nashyra]

18. Get Clark to express the outrage

I like what he said the other day when he said "it was not the way he remembers his army or the "army my SON served in" I liked the way he got in the fact that his son even served in the military even though he did not have to. We know that the *'s kids won't serve, Cheney's offspring did not serve and I'm not sure whether Kerry's or Hienz''s kids served, but Clark's did.

[Failure]

25. right...nt

[MsUnderstood]

19. I have to disagree

It was soldiers who did this, not the republicans. Trying to put this on Bush will not work. In fact it will allow Bush to fire up his campaign by saying "Look how Kerry politsizes human suffering. We are punishing those involved. . .la la la".

The average american doesn't care what happens beneath the feet of George Bush. They continue to say "he is an honest moral president, struggling through the most difficult time in American History and battling evil dictators to protect us from terror".

If you bring up these atrocities those same fools are going to say "the military did it" and feel sorry for Bush having to deal with this. . .

Kerry needs to keep focus on JOBS/ECONOMY, LIES TOLD PUTTING US INTO WAR (not the war itself), and HOMELAND SECURITY (or lack thereof).

[Tinoire]

22. If you think it was the soldiers who did this & not the Republicans

You are seriously misinformed about the facts of the story.


But you're right in one way, it wasn't the Republicans; it was the NEO-Conservatives/Liberals; the same ones who have been the cause of this entire mess but which most people here prefer to blame on the Republicans alone.

If all Kerry focuses on are the "safe issues" it makes it "appear" tht he's either too much of a chickenshit to tackle a real issue or is complicit in this.

In either case, based on that "appearance", he will lose a LOT of votes. Many more than the war-neutral moderates realize.

[bigtree]

20. Statement by Senator Kerry on the Photos of Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

Statement by Senator Kerry on the Photos of Iraqi Prisoner Abuse


April 30, 2004

For Immediate Release


Senator John Kerry issued the following statement today:

“I am disturbed and troubled by the evidence of shameful mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. We must learn the facts and take the appropriate action. As Americans, we must stand tall for the rule of law and freedom everywhere. But we cannot let the actions of a few overshadow the tremendous good work that thousands of soldiers are doing every day in Iraq and all over the world.”

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0430a.html

[Tinoire]

23. Sounds just like what Bush said.

Both candidates are unhappy.

Bush is "disgusted". Kerry is "disturbed".

That won't really clear things up for the American voter.

[Failure]

26. “I am disturbed and troubled" Sounds like shrubby n/t

[bigtree]

31. Give him a chance

I don't see why, at every opportunity, folks want to put Kerry in the same league as Bush. Bush can say all he wants, but it's meaningless because we all know what a liar he is. I'm disturbed and troubled by the abuses. Does that make me akin to Bush? I don't have any more facts at hand than Kerry probably does. What more can be said? When they determine who committed these acts then I, and I'm certain Kerry, will call for the strongest punishment under our law. I don't see any need for him to rehash the news stories like we do here or embellish them. I just don't know what folks want him to do. Rant about abuses? Make a political issue out of condeming our troops? What happens when folks turn the actions of some into an indictment of all of our military, most of whom serve with honor, disipline and respect?

I think he was wise to limit his statements now and I fully expect him to actively condem anyone who is found to be culpable. It's not like it's the first time that Kerry has spoken out against abuses by our military. To suggest that he is somehow akin to Bush on this is absurd. To act as if we somehow posess more outrage over these kinds of acts than Kerry is the typical meme around here. I hope we can give Kerry a chance to address this in the future without acting like he has no clue and required our prodding.

Now, please resume the meme ranting. I'm out of here.

[Failure]

33. what's the difference between what's happening now and what

JK said happened in Nam? Why was he demonized for testifying back then, why did he back off those statements?

[bigtree]

38. Another example of uninformed criticism

Kerry backed off of the words he used to describe the abuses back then because he feels they painted the troops with a broad brush. He never backed off of the accusations of which he says most were proven true. Accusations of free-fire zones, search and destroy missions, and indiscriminate bombings.

He stood up then, He stands by his accusations today. He only says his language was too harsh. God forbid we take blameless others into account when we accuse.

[redqueen]

21. I don't think he should be publicly flogging it, no

The issue is there and is generating enough outrage on its own without his help. If he were to add his opinion to the mix it would only serve as a fielder's choice for the Rove gang.

Better he lay low on this and express his disgust when asked by journalists.

As for the non-issue game, it's nothing new.

What *IS* new, (at least AFAIK), is McLaughlin talking about it! I don't watch often but did catch the show this week, and one of the questions he asked was: did the 'medal / ribbons flap help or hurt Kerry?'

So then all the pundits except Elanor said it hurt him - hurt his credibility (on a scale of 1 (credible) to 10 (not credible) all the whores said it moved him from a five to a six). Elanor said it rated a TWO.

McLaughlin then chimes in with "THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT BUSH WANTS! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MEDALS AND RIBBONS -- NOT THE 9/11 COMMISSION, NOT IRAQ, NOT FALLUJAH, NOT (blah blah blah)! THIS DOESN'T HURT KERRY'S CREDIBILITY! IT'S NOT EVEN AN ISSUE! NOBODY CARES! THE MAN WAS A WAR HERO! THIS IS GOING NOWHERE! HIS CREDIBILITY IS A ONE!"

That's from memory, transcript not available yet. But it's pretty close! Man, I love his rants. And what a rare bonus that we agree! :D

[MrBenchley]

27. Why?

What is he going to say, except "It's an outrage."

The time for Kerry to bring it up is September and October, not now.

[Failure]

29. by sept, oct. this will be old news...repukes will say,

we've moved on, we took care of it...just like *'s military record, just like the Plame investigation, like the enron scandal, like the cnergy task force, like "bring em on" like Mission Accomplished,

failure.

[rocktivity]

37. It's Bush's excrement. Let him wallow in it

AND in the glare of the global media spotlight. If Kerry speaks out too agressively, the media would simply accuse Kerry of trying to "politicize the issue" in order to get votes. And they'd cherish every second of it, too, because it would mean they wouldn't be reporting bad stuff about Bush! This way, the media has no choice to focus on Bush's underfed, underequipped troops; incoherent, inappropriate speeches; prisoner abuse; coalition members pulling out, and re-employing former Saddam associates. Keep your mouth shut, and stay the course President Kerry--you're doing fine!

:headbang:
rocknation