Sharpton makes soooo much sense. He has the message we need.

[Armstead]

I just watched the Rev. Al at one of Tom Harkinbs candidate forums on CSPAN.

I gotta tell you -- Sharpton has the message and the power that the Democratic Party needs. Liberal and progressive values, with No nonsense-No BS and no apologies.

Okay, he is not going to get the nomination, because he has too much personal baggage and no elective experience. But the more I see of him, the more impressed I am by the spirit, intelligence and passion he brings.

Compared to him, most of the Democratic main contenders are stale gruel.

Forget the cartoon Al Sharpton. He was relatuively low-key in this forum. No bombast, just straight honest talk. And yet extremely powerful.

And guess what? He had a vital and compelling message that can make perfect sense and spark enthusiasm with those average "swing voters" that politicians try to court.

Rev. Al demonstrated the real-world vitality of liberal and progresive politics when it is freed from under the waffling platiutudes and evasions that have stifled most Democratic politics in recent years.

In my opinion, the biuggest tragedy of modern American public life is how the real natrire of liberalism and progressive politics has been smothered and middid and marginalized -- by Democrats as well as Republicans.

We need to get back to our core.

Straightforward liberalism and progressivism is not the message of some weird "lefty cult." It is Plain Truth and Honesty about what is going on with real people in the real world. And solutions that are possible and which are simple common sense and decency.

He brings what Dennis Kucinich and -- to an extent -- Howard Dean do. You can listen to them and feel as though they are really talking on a level that brings out the true face of liberalism. The message that Rev. Al and Kucinich and -- to an extent -- Howard Dean have can be a winning one. It both makes perfect sense -- and can get people excited and hopeful and enthusiastuc.

If you get a chance to see this forum replayed or on the web, please do so.

And think about it.

[WindRavenX]

1. I really like him

Passionate, and I get the feeling he really cares about what he's saying.
But yeah, you're right he won't get the nomination.
He's a good guy to have on our side though :hi:

[preocupied]

39. Yeah, great token isn't he.....

He's perfect to secure the black Democratic base, yeah let's ride that bull like no tomorrow, yeeee haaawwwww.... We know he's wasting his time, after all, what black Democrat will ever get our nomination, we just make them squeal like a pig, and bring that black vote home.

Guys and gals, quit the nonsense and stop riding black Democrats unless you truly believe in them and they can get your vote/support.

[wrkclskid]

42. Ummmmmm

Yes, definitly, everytime anyone praises an African American candidatebut points out they are unelectable, they are all guilty of some sort of pseudo-racism. Sharpton and CMB have very good ideas, but they are both unelectable due to their checkered pasts. I see nothing in that statment to suggest the psoter was taking African Americans for granted. I am sorry but I think sometimes my friends on the left, we all get so offended by everything that we end up arguing amongst ourselves and looking foolish. I think an african american democratic candiate without a chekcered history would be an excellent candidate. Perhaps someone like Harold Ford or John Lewis. But please, just because I think Sharpton is a valaubale ally but am not willing to support him as a candidate does not imply I take african Americans for granted.

[noiretextatique]

79. w has a checkered history

didn't hurt him one bit.

[amazona]

2. a possible suggestion

I would like to see him in a VP slot where he can get a little hands-on experience in an elected position. Not sure if that's acceptable to him though. Would love to see him in a debate with the slurred, pretzel-choking wonderchimp. He'd have *'s head spinning around like an owl's. But I suppose it will never happen...

[Armstead]

5. Congress

Personally, I think Sharpton ought to run for Congress at some point.

IMO this campaign is largely an effort by him to clean up his image and be taken seriously, and to bring his ideas into the mix. If he continues like he did on that forum I believe he will succeed -- as well as bringing some fresh air into a very stale room.

A logical next step would be Congress, I believe.

[jenk]

3. we can use him to attract voters, but keep him off the ticket

.

[Ladyhawk]

11. Having been born into a right-wing family,

I can tell you that they think Sharpton is a "commie" and a complete idiot. Unfortunately, this opinion has slopped over into the mainstream, so Sharpton is not a viable candidate. Also, he's too black for America right now. :( And no, I'm not saying that's right.

I'm just saying that in order to get this country back from the brink, we have to have a viable candidate who can work with the far right. As much as that may sicken some of you, it's probably the only way short of a civil war. The pendulum has to be turned away from fascism slowly in order to avoid bloodshed. The right-wing didn't get this far in one election. They did it slowly over time. And now it's reached a meltdown point.

[Isome]

58. "...slowly over time..."

Martin Luther King understood your sentiments LadyHawk. In Letter from a Birmingham Jail he explained moderate whites as being the most infuriating and condescending for expecting people of African descent to constantly wait for justice until white people were ready. To be exact he said:

For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." It has been a tranquilizing Thalidomide, relieving the emotional stress for a moment, only to give birth to an ill-formed infant of frustration. We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

...

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negroe's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White citizens' "Councilor" or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direst action"; who paternistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." ...

Luckily, and despite the constant bad press we get, we're far more flexible than white folks could ever be with regard to delayed and denied parity in these united states. But our patience is wearing thin with this party.

[jbm]

4. I agree...

I have been very impressed with Sharpton every time I've seen him campaign. I watched him tonight also,and was wishing he had a chance to win.

[Walt Starr]

6. Sharpton is un electable

He can never be elected to any office. Too much baggage.

[Armstead]

12. You miss the point Walt

I said I realize he is unelectable.

But that is a diversion from the real truth. The message he has and he represents is what our side of the spectrum ought to stand for with no compromises and no apologies.

It is also very mainstream, and would resonate with average people if given half a chance by the media and the political establishment.

[Walt Starr]

18. We need another messenger besides Sharpton

Because few will listen to the message due to the baggage of the messenger.

[Armstead]

22. I don't care. This was about the mesage.

My point was not another boosting a candidate thread. I am sick and tired (and extremely bored) with the horse race side of all of this.

The IDEAS are what should ultimately be driving this. As horrible as their ideas are, the GOP at least has ideas and a vision and the committment to push for it.

Unless ourt side starts focusing more on doing that, we are sunk.

[moosedog]

31. Too much baggage?

I don't see how he can have more than the bunch in there now.

[birdman]

61. Hello !!!! - Have any of the others

made accusations of racially motivated rape and
stood by them even when he knew them to be false?

Made inflammatory anti-Semitic statements that
resulted in the murder of a Hasidc Jew ?

Sold his endorsement to right-wing Republicans
because Democrats refused to meet his demands ?

Sharpton has done all of these things and he's
an embarrassment to the party every minute he's
on stage.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. I agree

Forget the overblown past "mistakes" (well at least until the usual suspects show up to bash him), the man has a lot to say. I would love to see him in person and I would be proud to work with him to register voters and get his message out.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. i would support a kucinich/sharpton ticket...i like sharpton alot

he does make total sense

[MaverickX]

9. I liked what he said about disability...

Other candidates don't seem to spend much time talking about people with disabilities. Sharpton is unelectable though, people don't take him seriously.

[Pastiche423]

23. "Other candidates don't

seem to spend much time talking about people with disabilities"?

Have you read this?

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_disabilityrights

I love listening to Sharpton both for his wonderful wit and his message. He knows what needs to be done for our country and I hope he is offered a and/or elected to a prominent position in our government.

[moosedog]

33. They didn't take Jesus Christ seriously either !

He must be a good man. You can feel it. I don't even listen to the other's because they are so full of it.

[sandnsea]

10. I always enjoy his speeches

He really has a way of cutting through it all and saying what needs to be said. And he always seems to get the crowd on his side in some way, no matter where the crowd is.

[Ladyhawk]

13. I just went to Al Sharpton's page

and liked this:

Declare health care a human right.

I've been on disability for several years and trying to get blood out of that particular turnip is one of the things that changed me from a nominal Republican to someone ready to vote liberal all the way. God, I'm so tired of having to fight for medication and the right to live halfway comfortably without having to depend on my religious reich family.

(And yes I realize you all realize he isn't a viable candidate at this point.)

[Armstead]

14. If Medicare did not already exist....

...it would never even considered today. Same thing for Social Security, the Minimum Wage and most of the other programs that people take for granted today.

That is one reason we need more voices like Sharpton and Kucinich. To continue to push the envelope and help to bring back the simple common sense and decency of liberalism.

[whirlygigspin]

24. Al Sharpton

I'm always refreshed and inspired after listening to Rev.Sharpton &
look foreward to hearing him speak at the convention.

[sandnsea]

40. Really, how can it not be?

You can't live without it, like water or food. It's kind of astounding really, that we have to have laws to force companies and government to give people the most basic subsistance to live. My mom was disabled and got 3 prescriptions a month from the state of Arkansas, unfortunately she needed something like 10 to keep her alive. My parents finally got a divorce so my Dad could make enough money to buy all her prescriptions but not have them kicked off Medicaid. It's really disgusting.

[whirlygigspin]

53. gratuitous kick

[KoKo]

15. He is a favorit of mine, also........why can't we hear what he is saying?

Why can't we take him into the folds of our Dem Party and find the place where he will be given his voice......Why can't we acknowledge his past (the Brawley thing) and look at his "gifts" of insight........and enjoy that he has a gift? Why can't we forgive him and move on and cherish his wonderful sense of humor, his sharp, wonderful insight into "how" America works, and his ability to cut a large complicated issue "down to size" and make it humorous and "manageable" both, at the same time.


He has a wonderful talent......and great insight.....for all his flaws.......why can't we find a place where he can SHINE! WHY?

I'm sorry for getting carried away here. I also am very fond of Carol Mosley-Braun.........and think she would be so good for America in the right position in a New Adminsitration...............wonderful smile, and more personable than most in Bush or even some in Clinton Administration. If you listen to her in the early Dem debates she has wonderful contributions......but she's not a man.


I really like them both......above some of the other candidates.....reallyu............but I know they have some electibility problems..........but they could be huge asessts to a NEW DEM Administration.......!!

[jiacinto]

16. Are you kidding

A Sharpton nomination would be a 49 state landslide for Bush. Sharpton is a street hustler. I will never forgive him for the Tawana Brawley incident and the 1986 endorsement of Alfonse D'Amato.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. we are not talking nomination here

we are talking about what he has to say. I know you agree with him on many issues. Give him some credit for speaking out, without worrying that he might get nomination and lose the election.

[jiacinto]

19. Cheswick

I agree with you on most issues, but I don't like Sharpton and think he is a very bad person. What he did in the Tawana Brawley case was rephresinble and I can't respect hinm.

[Armstead]

20. Dammitall Carlos

You have your head in the sand. Did you even bother to read the post beyond the headline? Why the #$%%$#*&! don't you at least watch the damn forum before spouting off your robotic mantra like that?

Okay the substance of Sharptonis' views can certainly be debated with. But my piunt had NOTHING to do with Tawana Brawley. Nor was I suggesting that we all join the Al Sharpton for President committee.

But the positions and clearcut honesty of what Sharpton is saying, and what he advocates is what the Democratic ought to be standing for -- whoever is on the outside of the package.

I'd bet you my car that if candidates like John Kerry started talking with the same unvarnished honesty about what is going on in America, he'd be president.

Your reflexive fear of being seen as "too liberal" by those holy centrists is what is going to keep the Republicans in power for the next 50 years.

[jiacinto]

37. Sharpton is a very bad person

And that is why I don't take him seriously.

[Armstead]

38. Once again you miss the point

You always seem to find some reason that progressive politicians are either ineffective or downright evil.

If Robert Kennedy were alive today, I suspect you't say he could never be elected because he has a funny voice and buck teeth.

The Brawley thing and some other episodes have alway tainted my view of Sharpton too. But neither you or I were there personally or came out of the world he does. So you ought to be a little les judgemental. And people do change and learn from their mistakes.

But again my original post was about the ideas he expresses, and clariy and honesty he brings to the debate. He is talking the truth (much of which you would probably agree with) but if you want to go through life with your hands cupped over your ears, that's your choice.

[jiacinto]

45. Sorry Sharpton is a hustler

Whatever his upbringing he knew right from wrong. And what he did in the whole Tawana Brawley incident was horrendous.

The excuse that he "came from a poor neighborhood" doesn't justify what he did to that DA and for the problems he has caused in NY.

I could care less what Sharpton says.

[Iverson]

55. message vs. messenger

When one refuses to distinguish between the message and the messenger, then truth becomes a function of whether a favored source is uttering it.

This thread is quite clearly about Sharpton's message, with repeated to attempts to clarify that the messenger is not the primary focus. To wilfully ignore that is to decide to miss the point.

If cancer research were conducted with a bias toward individual qualities of researchers, we would all be in a great deal of trouble. That is why informed citizens, particularly those involved in higher learning, have an obligation to conduct themselves with intellectual fidelity and evaluate arguments based upon their merits, and not upon the personal qualities of the arguer.

Now, here's a little puzzle. I'm a Green. If you suddenly find yourself not believing the manifestly obvious reminders above on that basis, then you need some review.

[retread]

56. I saw Sharpton on O'Reilly recently and I thought he was weak and

ineffectual. It is the first time I have seen him and come away with that impression. I say this as a supporter and contributor to his campaign.
I find it interesting you are ready to defend and excuse all manner of actions and pronouncements from Lieberman, but condemn Sharpton out of hand. Is this the "values" thing you have mentioned before?

[Isome]

63. Brush up on your English...

The phrase is "...couldn't care less", not COULD. But that's only noteworthy because of the spurious accusations made about him.

Holding the fact that he believed someone else's lie against him, when he thought he was standing on the side of right, is nonsensical. If one wanted to call him gullible or too easily duped, it'd be easier to understand. But to call him a "street hustler" can be easily seen as bigotry. It's bollocks that he caused "problems" in NY. NY has and will continue to have problems. Al Sharpton hasn't CAUSED any of them.

It's easier for some folks to believe the worst about him to justify their feelings that have nothing to do with what he's alleged to have done or said.

Just like the skewed press the Bushies get compared to the Clintons, the press has never been challenged on any inaccuracies reported about Al, or Jesse, or Kwesi, or Cynthia McKinney, etc.

You just expect more from people calling themselves Democrats... but what was I thinking!!

[noiretextatique]

80. thank you, isome...

the double standard is something 'democrats' should be more aware of. as is the bigotry.

[sendero]

65. consider...

... that even a "bad" person can have good ideas.

I agree with Armstead pretty much. Yes, Sharpton has been successfully marginalized and to some extent rightly so.

But that doesn't mean that viable candidates cannot borrow some of his ideas does it.

Not only that, but I try hard to forgive people of past mistakes is they are truly contrite. The country is not ready to forgive Sharpton, but I just might be. Not everyone who did a bad thing 20 years ago is still "bad".

[TankLV]

44. What a surprise!

And we can assume that IF he was the nominee (which will never happen, for reasons to numerous to mention) you wouldn't vote for him?

Or is all that scolding only for those that don't like holy joe Lieberman, Gephardt or weenier Daschle?

[jiacinto]

46. I would vote for him if he were the nominee

But I would do so kicking and screaming.

[sandnsea]

50. Tawana who?

The Republicans just sweep the scandals of their candidates right under the rug and they're totally forgotten. But not Democrats, no we have to drag them up again and again and when the Republicans drag them up we run cowering to the corner. If we don't figure out we're in a dog fight and support any dog in the fight, we'll never get the votes back.

[LWolf]

21. I like Sharpton.

I enjoy listening to him, and will catch him at the CSpan site this week.

His "baggage" gives me pause, and I wouldn't vote for him unless he changed his stance on NCLB, but I think he adds valuable ideas and discussions, and I hope he keeps talking.

[whirlygigspin]

26. of vision and leadership

While Rev.Sharpton may not have to power to lead America,
his voice has the power to offer the inspiration &
vision needed to redeem her.

In the end, what is more important than that?

[-..__...]

25. Sharpton can afford to say anything he wants to.

He knows he's unelectable, so what harm can he do to himself by "speaking out"?
His intent is part upsetting the egg cart and part promoting Al Sharpton.
I'll give you that he's an excellent speaker, but a leader? I think not.
The guys a racist blowhard and a disgrace to the Democratic party.
He should be selling used cars at 'Honest Al's Car Emporium', not running for president.

[buff2]

27. Al Sharpton would be a far better leader

than that pile of shit for brains we have now! Nuff said.

[-..__...]

41. Two wrongs doesn't make it right

Sharpton is an uneducated pompous ass. I'd wouldn't vote for Sharpton any more than I'd vote
for David Duke.

[Armstead]

28. Once again, you're missing the point.

You didn't even bother to address the point I was making.

[-..__...]

43. You didn't even bother to address the point I was making.

Which is what?

Sharpton has wit and the power of gab, no question... that's his profession. Maybe 10 second soundbites
of preaching to the choir sounds appealing to you, but in reality it's just rhetoric. I fully realize that Sharpton
knows he has no chance of making it through the primaries; let alone winning the presidency. He's using the
elective process to get a message across. Thing is, is it Al Sharptons message, or the peoples message?

[retread]

57. People's Message?? Which "people"? Which "message"?

*

[Armstead]

78. It IS the people's message

The problem is the question that has to be asked about most centrist Democrats who have abandoned clear-eyed unapologetic liberalism.

"Is it the people's message or the message of the Elite?"

[finecraft]

29. The essence of why I'm a Democrat

Al nails it every time I see him. He always articulates the good things that government should be doing...not the crap that we have been given for the past few years. It's sad that we now live in a country whos growth is based on military spending. He articulates what's wrong with the social conscience of this country, and how it needs to change. More and more lately it seems that when people find out that I support federally funded social programs, and yes, that includes entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid and social security, they act as if I have the plague or something! It makes me so angry to see how selfish and self-centered this country has become! When did we turn into a nation who's core value is "every man for himself"? :shrug:

[RichM]

48. Re: When did we turn into a nation whose core value is "every man for

himself?" -- Actually, we always were such a nation, EXCEPT for the relatively brief time period from the mid 1930's until the mid 1970's, when conservative forces regrouped & started to roll back all that had been gained by the New Deal coalition.

Before the New Deal, this country was "every man for himself" -- a Darwinian jungle. It is becoming that again, & the movement in this direction has been in progress since the mid '70s.

[moosedog]

30. Hi Armstead..

I agree with you. I like Dennis K too. I really like the spirit in him. I think Charles Rangel should run. I'm fearful that whoever gets in, will be someone that can be manipulated by the RW, that is if they by some fluke, get in. I believe in all my heart, that the poles are fixed now and we have only one way to stand up to them and that is to not go along with their schemes so they can't play their crooked game with us.

[messiah]

32. I agree

But I wish Cornel West was running in place of Sharpton rather than being the man giving Al advice.

[Armstead]

34. West has always bowled me over

He is great. Has the same spirit of real progressive honesty and passion.

[Pastiche423]

35. Wow!

Can you imagine the forums and debates if Cornel West was running! He puts his whole body and soul into his speeches.

[messiah]

36. Yeah

he has the charisma of three Bill Clinton's.

[nolabels]

49. Frankly I like Al better, but to each his own

We need another progressive state, Al has the answer

http://www.al2004.org/index.htm
1. DC VOTING RIGHTS or STATEHOOD Is Morally Right

The American Revolution was ultimately declared citing the principle "taxation without representation is tyranny." There are nearly 600,000 taxpaying citizens in the District of Columbia who have no federal voting representation in Congress - only a non-voting Delegate, Eleanor Holmes Norton. DC has enough people, pays enough taxes and bleeds and dies enough in times of war to have political representation. DC residents have fought and died in every war since the War for Independence. We just fought a war to provide self-determination and democracy for the people of Iraq, yet there is no self-determination or democracy in our own nation's capital. Those Americans from DC who fought in "Operation Iraqi Freedom" should have returned home to a democratic society with the same rights and privileges as all other Americans who served their country in a similar way - but they didn't!

2. DC VOTING RIGHTS or STATEHOOD Is Rationally Sound

While the Constitution does not define specific conditions for statehood, Congress, over the years, has developed certain standards and procedures for the admission of new states. Historically, statehood has been granted when three criteria were met: (1) the people, through some democratic process, express their desire to become a state (DC passed a referendum); (2) the people accept the republican form of government required by the Constitution and practiced in the United States; and (3) there are sufficient people and economic resources to support a state. The District of Columbia passes all three of the traditional tests for statehood. Voting Rights - two U.S. Senators and proportionate representation based on population in the House (currently, it would be one representative)
- can be achieved by simple legislation passed by a majority vote in the House and Senate and signed into law by the President. There are six states - WY, AK, VT, ND, DE, SD - with 12 U.S. Senators and a proportionate number of U.S. Representatives in Congress, that have fewer or just slightly more people living in their states than DC.

3. DC VOTING RIGHTS or STATEHOOD is Economically Feasible

DC residents pay enough annually in federal taxes to support a state - more total federal taxes than several states; and the per capita tax payment for DC is above the national average - indeed, a payment higher than 40 states.
One misconception traditionally embraced by statehood opponents is that the federal government pays most of the District's operating costs. In reality, the opposite is true. The federal government does not subsidize DC. DC subsidizes the federal government
and adjoining states.
Congress has imposed special costs on DC because it's the nation's capital, while restricting DC's ability to raise revenues to meet those costs - and Congress has failed to provide adequate compensation through a fair federal payment.

Approximately 50% of DC's real estate are exempt from taxation because it belongs to the federal government, diplomatic missions or other tax-exempt organizations. In addition, while the Sharpton Campaign understands and supports the limitation on the height of buildings in DC (restricted to 130 feet) - to preserve the visual beauty of the nation's capital - in purely economic terms, it reduces the income DC can collect from property taxes. Furthermore, approximately half of all sales in DC are to the federal government or other tax-exempt organizations, producing no revenue to the DC government.
(snip)

[Forkboy]

47. hahahaha...."stale gruel"

too funny!

Al is excellent...too bad he stands no chance. :-(

[fabius]

51. Al for DNC Chair!

Dump Terry McDLC.

I think it's the ideal place for Al (if he doesn't win the nomination anyhow). Take it to the streets!

Kucinich for Secretary of Labor.

Dean for President!

That'll nail 'em.

[angee_is_mad]

52. me 2

I watched the debates earlier this week and I was greatly impressed by Sharpton also. I always knew he was a great orator, but he had visions and ideas for the country that was very impressive. The TERMINATOR wish he had half of what Sharpton has as far as plans. What politician would say that he or she were not for the children. Arnold pleeze!!! After the primaries Kerry or Dean need to find a way to utilize Sharpton and all of America would reap the benfits of it. They may have to do it on the DL until they are in office, but they would be fools not too!!!!

[DemBones DemBones]

54. I'm glad you started this thread, Armstead, and glad to see

so many positive comments about Al Sharpton. I remember the Tawana Brawley episode very well and thought his involvement in that was wrong but that was a good while ago, twenty years, perhaps? And there are probably things we don't know about what went on.

In any case, it's his old-fashioned progressive ideas and his ability to communicate them well that interests me today. Talking the talk is an important part of leadership. He should run for office in New York, either the House or Senate, and then everyone can judge whether he walks the walk.

I also like Carol Moseley-Braun and want to hear more from her. The media seek to marginalize Braun, Sharpton, and Kucinich, our three most progressive candidates -- what a surprise, huh? :-)

[AP]

59. Sharpton's meta-message is: equal opportunity on a level...

...playing field. That's what you hear that makes so much sense. And if you're listening, there's one other candidate who has put this message -- which is the message that wins against George Bush -- at the center of his campaign, and that's John Edwards.

[GabysPoppy]

60. Anybody remember why NYC has a republican mayor?

Sharpton withheld any support for Mark Green over perceived insults to the Jose Ferrer in the primary.

I am not here to debate whether the insults were real or not, just that the Reverend used this vendetta to keep a Democrat from winning in NYC. So now a city whose registration is at least 5:1 Democrat is stuck with a repug.

Politics in NYC is a nasty, dirty business I agree, but with the help of Rev. Sharpton NYC has to endure Mr. Bloomberg.

What's the old saying? With friends like this who needs enemies.

[birdman]

62. Absolutely, just look at his past

Sharpton even endorsed Al D'Amato and George Pataki.

He'll probably try to blackmail the party next year
by demanding a prime time convention speech (which
would cost the party thousands of votes because thugs
like Sharpton scare the daylights out of middle class
voters) and if the party says no he'll claim Democrats
are racist and endorse Bush (in return for some "faith
based" money for one of Rev. Als organizations).

Unrealistic ? Just look at the guy's history. He's
already claiming that the press is racist for not
covering his campaign more.

We have to be better than the Al Sharptons of the world.

[Isome]

64. Bull...

If the state is 5:1 Democrat, where were all the OTHER democrats that should have been out there voting? People of African descent are only 12.4% of the population you know. By ourselves, even as an impenetrable voting bloc in one city, we couldn't elect any one to that level of office.

Blame the white democrats who didn't get off their asses to vote that day. He didn't back him, so what?! Considering the lambasting he gets from those who don't like him in New York, he's not obligated to help get someone elected, especially since this party has repeatedly marginalized him (in both NY and nationally)! Get real folks and stop scapegoating!

[GabysPoppy]

66. Your facts are wrong

First we are talking about the City not the State.

Secondly I am not sure your percentage of the black population of 12.4% is meant to be nationwide, I believe it is different in NYC.

Third it was the minority population in NYC that was more guilty of not getting off their asses to vote than the white populace. Not voting is a serious problem regardless of race but this time the "minority" populations be they black or Latino were encouraged by the Rev. Sharpton to "sit out" the election as retribution.

Finally as a politician to be, yes it is his responsibility to encourage participation in the election process.

I don't dismiss the fact that he is an effective speaker that could help the Democratic Party, but please show me how that effectiveness helped in this particular case.

[Isome]

67. Approximately...

Give or take a fraction of a percentage point that is the number nationwide. I stand by my assertion that even in that city, our votes alone cannot elect someone to that level of office because the total percentage in NY doesn't accurately indicate how many are eligible voters (it doesn't count minors or those without voting privileges). Again, it isn't Al's fault. Despite the desperate desire to pin it on him and absolve others of their personal responsibility to get out the vote.

Also, again, he's as marginalized now as he was then, yet you, and those with your mindset, believe he was obligated to help a Democratic candidate get elected by galvanizing the vote of people of color. Think again! Others had the same ability to make their case and energize that particular sometimes courted, sometimes placated, mostly ignored, voting base.

There wasn't a question of whether he was or wasn't "helping" by not endorsing a candidate.

The issue remains that given the incessant pejoratives thrown in his direction by people in the party, he wasn't obligated to do so. As a political / community activist his only obligation is to endorse or support those he deems worthy and willing to take up the issues important to his following, not dance to the beat of the Democrats' drum because they say so.

[GabysPoppy]

70. I am in envy of you enjoying the Florida weather

However as a New Yorker, I am the one forced to live with Bloomberg and his own group of thugs.

Maybe you need some real facts about the demographics in NYC.

Population by Mutually Exclusive Race and Hispanic Origin
New York City and Boroughs, 1990 and 2000
1990 2000
Number Percent Number Percent
New York City 7,322,564 100.0 8,008,278 100.0
Nonhispanic of Single Race: - - - -
White Nonhispanic 3,163,125 43.2 2,801,267 35.0
Black/African American Nonhispanic 1,847,049 25.2 1,962,154 24.5
Asian or Pacific Islander Nonhispanic 489,851 6.7 783,058 9.8
American Indian and Alaska
Native Nonhispanic 17,871 0.2 17,321 0.2
Some Other Race Nonhispanic 21,157 0.3 58,775 0.7
Nonhispanic of Two or More Races - - 225,149 2.8
Hispanic Origin 1,783,511 24.4 2,160,554 27.0


http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/census/popdiv.html


Your nationwide statistics do not even closely represent NYC.

Now for the election results in the mayoral race in question

Bloomberg = 744,757
Green = 676,717

http://www.vote.nyc.ny.us/pdf/results/2001/generalElection/General2001.pdf

So to say he didn't make a difference is argued differently by the facts.

"yet you, and those with your mindset" Is an insulting statement and I very much resent it.

"Think again! Others had the same ability to make their case and energize that particular sometimes courted, sometimes placated, mostly ignored, voting base."

We are not talking about others, the discussion is and was about the Rev. Sharpton. I am here neither to defend or support any other politician in NYC and what he or she should have done. I am stuck with Bloomberg and Sharpton is "one" of the reasons.

"As a political / community activist his only obligation is to endorse or support those he deems worthy and willing to take up the issues important to his following, not dance to the beat of the Democrats' drum because they say so."

I totally agree with you if he wanted to be "only" an activist, but he wants to be considered more than an activist and with that consideration in mind his responsibilities are broadened.

I too would like to have my cake and eat it too.

[Isome]

72. The demographics don't matter.

What don't you understand about that? You expect him to do your bidding for you, because you're incapable, somehow, of appealing to that group of voters you continue to profess you need. If you can't galvanize them, what makes you think someone should do it on your behalf.

Now you have learned your lesson, hopefully! He's not an activist for YOUR benefit, despite your obvious belief to the contrary. He doesn't work for you or the Democratic party, get used to it!

[undergroundrailroad]

82. This was about a PICTURE. Mark Green did NOT take a picture with

the Rev. Al Sharpton. THAT was the fatal blow to the campaign of Mark Green. Al Sharpton make it clear that if you 'dis me, the Black and Hispanic Vote will not be voting for you. The Black and Hispanic vote did NOT turn out in the traditional numbers . I do recall pictures of Al Sharpton and our current NY Mayor and I believe that picture was worth 1000 votes, lost votes, for Mark Green.

[robbedvoter]

68. If his character would match his eloquence, I'd volunteer for him

As it is, as a New Yorker he owes me a liberal Dem mayor before I trust the man with anything.

[Isome]

69. You people cannot be serious?

Truly, you are telling on yourselves! You're showing the general readership that in your view, only a person of African descent can relate to others of African descent.

You're too blind to see what's wrong with that picture. You can't go to the people and make your case for the candidate of your choice? You have to rely on a BLACK intermediary to speak to other BLACK people about the issues? You're too frightened to even attempt to appeal to those whose votes you say you need to get the candidate of your choosing elected? You folks don't even know how you're making yourselves look by trying to pin the blame on someone else because "minorities" weren't instructed to vote for yet another white guy who would of course have our best interests at heart.

[noiretextatique]

81. isome, you are a welcome addition

i haven't seen you before, but i appreciate your truth-telling. as you noticed...it's much needed.

[buddhamama]

71. the Plain and Simple truth

is the hardest to swallow.

it doesn't fit what we come to expect and therefore imo, because it is plain and simple it sounds fake. where's the spin,the hemming and the screaming. it is delivered in a complete sentence without contradiction.

i agree about Sharpton.

[SmokeyBlues]

73. Nobody knows the trouble I've seen...

Yo Isome!

I like your style! By the way, did the Sharpton naysayers mention his involvement with Tawana Brawley yet? If so, how predictable!

Good show!

[Isome]

74. Well...

Thanks alot Smokey! I'm stunned that I've been here blissfully unaware of the bone-deep ignorance masquerading as righteous indignation.

Can you believe they truly think Al has an obligation, like an indentured servant or some skinin' & grinnin' minstrel, to do the bidding of the party, its officials, and its supporters, who have regularly, and without compunction denigrated and maligned his character and his very name. They admit, without realizing it, that they refuse to appeal to the "minority" (don't you just hate that misnomer?) on their own; they must have, evidently a go-between. Someone who can, mayhaps, get down in the trenches with the unwashed masses, while they remain on high, on the hill, so as not to get dirty or expend energy needlessly.

If that is not an accurate interpretation of their meaning, regrettably, they know not what they say!

I'm glad to see you, I don't enounter our kind (unapologetic & fiercely loyal) around here too often, and now I know why.

[SmokeyBlues]

75. Shadrach, Meshack & Abed-Nego...

Or in Shaprton's Case: Shadrach, Meshack & A Bad Negro!

And I agree with everything you say! I've had my share of 'discussions' on this progressive/liberal web site concerning the inimitable and outspoken Reverend Al. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the criticism from the Sharpton naysayers in this joint is oh-so-predictable and, in my humble albeit honest opinion, has developed a certain stall quality to it.

Peace!

[Armstead]

76. REALITY CHECK TIME

Some of you missed the point of the original post.

It's true that I was praising Sharpton, but too many of you stopped at that and only saw it as yet another DU "horse race" post about the candidates.

My larger point was the substance of the message Sharpton was delivering and the way he was delivering it. That is what I believe we need to do on a larger basis, t restore the strength of liberalism and progressive poliics as a mainstream poilitical force again.

This was not bombast or one liners. It was straight talk about what is happening in this country in both general and specific terms, with no punches pulled. And clear solutions as to how we can correct it.

That transcends anything about Sharpton personally or as a candidate, whether he is black or white, or whether he would make a good president or not.

Until we all start acting like liberals and progressives again -- and start talking to the public (and outselves) as clear and straight and direct as Sharpton was speaking at this forum, we will continue to be marganilized.

That was the point. Please watch the forum if you can, and think about how strong Democrats would be if there were more of this kind of straight talk from a liberal perspective.

[leftofthedial]

77. you're right. he's been terrific.

given, yhough, yhat he has no chance at winning the nomination, how would you like to see him and his ideas included in the campaign and in a Democratic administration beginning in 2005?

[rucky]

83. Al Can Do This...Even If (When) He Doesn't Get The Nomination

Great post... and thank God for Al Sharpton! All these DUers who are fighting for their candidates to WIN have lost sight of the importance of the PROCESS of the primary - which sharpens our message. If the eventual nominee takes the best of ALL the candidates, the Democrats will be unstoppable in '04. Sharpton brings something unique to the table (as described) - and even if the nominee can't bottle up Sharpton's energy and sell it as his own, Sharpton has widened the base - it's up to candidate X to pick up the torch.

I'd like to see our next President appoint Sharpton to a cabinet post or some advisory position...maybe HUD?