Vote for Kerry or go on ignore

[fob]

Go ahead and rant all you want about John Kerry. Tell us all how you think he sucks, or is bush* lite, praise Nader or whatever, but when you get to the end reaffirm your vote FOR him.

Vote Kerry or go on ignore, that should ease my thread viewing for the next few weeks.

I don't belong to an organized party, I'm a Democrat!

[Malva Zebrina]

1. I am sure I will lose a lot of sleep over the threat that I will be put on

ignore--lol-- <snerk>

I prefer to express my opinions no matter if the entire population of DU puts me on their ignore. That does not deter me from expressing those opinions.

I have no one on ignore. Occasionally I do block out a thread. I find that a handy tool, because for sure, my opinons will not be accepted on that particular thread and I do want to remove the temptation to post there, so I zap the entire thread.


Who cares if you ignore me?

Kerry is lacking--is falling behind, and seems to be floundering

and we do not NEED that.

That is my informed opinion and I will say it here on DU.

I am not about to stroke a fantasy that we have a candidate that is a saint. I prefer a more grounded approach.

Please Kerry====if you cannot do it, hire someone with the talent to do so--hire someone with some balls and with the energy to command attention and get your agendas noticed. You cannot do it. It is NOT your style. Hire someone to inject some energu into your campaign.

Our lives are at stake.

[Mountainman]

3. It's like your watching a game from the sidelines

Kerry is not scoring points at this time, Bush is so it's time to dump him?

The game has just begun. Kerry said he will not let any charge go unanswered and I give him the benefit of the doubt.

When Kerry picks a running mate his poll numbers will climb again.

[Malva Zebrina]

129. No, I did not suggest dumping him

I suggested he hire a firebrand to promote him.

Kerry obviously does not have that talent--

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

108. Please...put me on your ignore

Anyone that would place someone under "ignore" because they have some differences with our candidate is much worse than anyone who would voice their opinion on his performance so far.

[MichaelHarris]

2. Safe to say

I won't be on your ignore, I'm with ya 100%. Now if we can get him to pick Edwards well that'll just sweeten the pot.

[Beacho]

4. Don't believe it was a threat

But frustration at the liberal penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

As well as the cat herding aspect.

To be expected from intelligent individuals who think for themselves.

Our greatest strength can be our greatest weakness.

[greendog]

5. I might vote for Kerry....

....but you probably should put me on ignor, just in case.

[Walt Starr]

106. I'm in the same boat as you are, right now I'm mostly undecided

There is only one given for the 2004 election for me, my vote will NOT be cast for Bush. How my vote will be cast is in doubt otherwise.

[doni_georgia]

6. a vote for anyone but Kerry is a vote for Bush

That's just a plain simple fact. I may not agree with Kerry 100%, but I have never met a politician yet that I DID agree with 100%. This bullshit about Kerry being as bad a Bush is just that bullshit! I faced fact a long time ago that I'm not likely to see a president as liberal as myself. I'm okay with it. I know that I'm not the only person in this country, and my views are not mainstream. I accept it. I support the party that comes the closest to embracing my views. With that, I support that party's candidate. This year it's Kerry, and he has my support.

[Christ was Socialist]

18. How about a vot for bush is a vote for bush and

a vote for anyone lese is a vote for anyone else. This is a free country, how about people think for themselves? I dunno maybe vote for nader, then they can say kerry cost nader the election.

[Zorra]

26. So....who are you planning to vote for?

[comsymp]

30. BLASPHEMER!!! HERETIC!!!

:evilgrin:


Welcome to DU, btw :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

46. Yes, let's pretend Ralph has a chance!

I love games of delusion!

[sandnsea]

74. How about the consequences of your actions?

The consequences of a vote for Nader may well be a Bush Presidency. Is there any denying that? Do you accept the consequences of your actions and all the blood that will likely be shed in 4 more years of Bush wars?

[Guaranteed]

75. Does Kerry accept the consequences of his?

Do YOU accept the consequences of his? Has he owned up to SHIT worth of HIS responsibility in all of this????

[corporatewhore]

81. remember wars occupation and human rights violations

as long as comitted by dems are A-OK!!!!

[sandnsea]

84. Kerrry's the CIC??

The President and ONLY the President deploys troops. The Congress cannot ORDER the President to deploy troops. This was 100% Bush's decision and Bush's abuse of power.

But today is today. And any help that anybody gives in putting Bush back in power is authorizing him to commit god knows how much more atrocities. Anybody who kids themselves into believing Bush and Kerry are exactly the same have some twisted agenda and live in a world of denial all their own. The blood is now on the Naderites hands.

[Guaranteed]

94. So I guess that's a "No"

to all of those questions.

[sangh0]

103. Avoiding the question?

Note how BGL avoided answering the question and tried to turn it around.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

147. Well I figured that MY question had precedence, considering

that I would be voting for Kerry himself. Makes sense to actually get questions like mine answered first.

YOU should be asking questions like that, too. When you find an answer, let me know what it is, and then I'll tell you mine.

[Christ was Socialist]

80. Not actually

If you would realize that we are in america, and if you could use that tolerant mind, and see it from nader supporters viewpoint, a vote for kerry is the vote for the same ole program. Let's not pretend the majority of dems even like kerry, its because hes "electable" well the voters turned thier back on dean, and watch it slowly crumble. Kerry is doing terrible. The guy won't own up to his statements from vietnam, he called them atrocities then,a nd the us government war criminals, but now he says it was just raw emotion. Dean and Dk and even sharpton were the ideal canidates, but as usual, no one can think for themselves, hence kerry the kerry nomination, and hence the vote for nader is a vote for bush crap. We need a third party frankly, the dems are moving so fast to the center to capture thee "vote" its funny the right moves further to the right, and plays to the base, and they run the government. What does the fact that nader gets votes tell you? hmm maybe the party is ignoring enough people, to cost themselves the white house, or imo taking votes away from nader.

[sandnsea]

86. See #84

This isn't about any party, it's about the country and the world. Wake up and smell the destruction. That's what you're abetting if you allow Bush to get into office. If you think the world can live through 4 more years of Bush, you're kidding yourself. It's a risk I wouldn't think any humanitarian would want to take.

[tinanator]

150. How about NOT NECESSARILY?

As long as Kerry has a lock in certain states, and as long as there is the undemocratic winner take all Electoral College enabling scams like 2000, a vote for any opposition party candidate is simply a voice you may not otherwise have against corporatist imperialism and "two" party hegemony. Some people are more concerned with advancing towards democracy than lockstepping the status quo, and their situation isnt always damaging to the Democratic candidate. So please add that explicit caveat to your blame games.

[Walt Starr]

107. Only a vote for Bush is a vote for Bush

Anything else is a vote for somebody other than Bush, nonsensical rhetorical bullshit notwithstanding.

[kiahzero]

120. A vote for someone other than Kerry is tacit approval for Bush

You are WILLINGLY refusing to do what you can to defeat Bush. You are being silent in the discussion over which of the two people with a possibility of winning; hence, you are tacitly supporting the status quo.

[Walt Starr]

124. Nope, a vote for somebody other than Kerry or Bush

is a vote for somebody other than Kerry or Bush, bullshit rhetorical nonsense notwithstanding.

You don't like it? Get an amendment to the constitution stating explicitly there will only be choices between Democrats and Republicans on ballots.

Right now, I'm undecided except for the fact that I will not vote for Bush. Bullshit nonsensical rhetoric about how voting for X is really a vote for Y pushes me further away from Kerry daily.

[VOX]

125. You're saying that your vote has only one consequence...

And that is to be tallied for the person for whom you have voted.

That's good, but as we all vote, we are, in fact, slicing up a pie. A vote can also be used strategically, i.e, to ensure that the particular pie-slicing doesn't result in a criminal asshole taking the entire pie.

[Walt Starr]

127. It does have only one consequence.

Want my vote, talk to my issues. It's as simple as that.

I gave up strategic voting in November of 2002. Strategic voting is what has gotten this country into its mess. I've voted straight Democratic tickets as the "not-Republicans" for more than two decades. It's 2004, and now I vote my conscience, plain and simple.

So chock me up as one of those "undecideds"/

[rman]

149. ..will increase Bush*'s chances for re-election,

no matter the fact that a vote for someone other than Kerry or Bush is a vote for somebody other than Kerry or Bush.

Why would anyone want to splinter the anti-Bush votes so that none of the alternatives to Bush gets elected?
Sad fact is that there currently is only one realistic alternative to Bush.

"first put out the fire, then we'll talk about redecorating"
else there won't be anything left to redecorate.

[Walt Starr]

152. My problem with your argument is

I don't see the "only realistic alternative to Bush" as really being an alternative to Bush. I honestly believe best case scenario is things will be the same. Yeah, there will be cosmetic rhetorical differences, but overall it will be "meet the new boss same as the old boss."

On Edit: See post 146.

[freetobegay]

7. Kerry bashers equal one thing

Their guy lost in the primary to Kerry. It's really that simple and it's rally that childish.

[Killarney]

27. You got it right.

It's sour grapes.

[G_j]

29. what does "bashing" mean to you?

just curious. Its a sort of nebulous word that gets thrown around a lot.

[HFishbine]

101. You realize of course, that for the majority of democrats

their guy lost in the primaries. Marginalize and dismiss the majority of democrats -- smart.

[comsymp]

8. Have you considered

never mind- pointless. But regardless of whom I plan to vote for, why don't you just go ahead and put me on ignore anyway?

[NightNurse]

89. Done!

:bounce: :nopity:

[comsymp]

100. Oh, woe is me-

Will I ever again find the love, validation and intellectual stimulation that has been so cruelly snatched from me???

:eyes:

[AP]

9. I'm going to do this too, however...

...I haven't been connecting names to anti-Kerry posts.

I'll pay attention now.

[xchrom]

10. i'm voting for kerry

but please put me on ignore -- this thread is too stupid for words.

[G_j]

28. me too!!

I'm voting for Kerry but please put me on ignore also.

[Guaranteed]

11. I will not submit to your demands.

I will vote for whomever I choose to. I need not reaffirm anything to you.

[Beacho]

12. Unlike the goose steppers

We question our leaders.

I'm ABB, but I'm also a Dean delegate up here in Washington and I have every intention of casting my vote for Dean.


Not to be a splitter, but as a statement to the DLCers and the 'don't rock the boat' party apparatchniks.

we brought you to the party and we aren't going away.

When Kerry wins, I believe that our work has just begun.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

151. County convention is this weekend. It'll be interesting.

[osaMABUSh]

13. It's real simple you only have two choices: Kerry or Bush

Do I even have to say anything else?

I will not buy into any arguement about some sort of statement by voting for Nader or not voting at all.

You are putting your nation at risk by not voting for Kerry. The only other outcome is the neocons win and ruin our country forever.

We need Kerry/Clark on that wall.

[Solidarity]

20. Only 2 Choices This Election? That's News!

Really? I didn't know we are required to vote for either the Democratic or Republican party candidates.

Do you think that ought to be written into law or the Constitution?

And if people who won't vote for Bush decide to vote for someone other than Kerry do you think they ought to have their citizenship revoked?

[Old and In the Way]

25. By all means vote your conscience.

George Bush is counting on you and possibly about 10% of the general voting population to do just that.

And don't worry, if George is re-elected, we won't be worrying about the future of political parties in this country.

[comsymp]

31. So, are you saying that Kerry and supporters are counting on us

to ignore our consciences???

The times, they are a-changin'

[Old and In the Way]

35. Nah, if you don't understand the stakes by now, you never will.

Pretend your "conscience" is more important that political reality, just don't kid yourself about the consequences of your decision.

[comsymp]

38. Patronizing much?

Allowing the benefit of the doubt- "your" may have been intended to mean "one's". If so, perhaps the Enlightened Ones may want to try a different approach towards helping to guide the naive children towards reality.

If "your" is intended to mean "my", then you presume too much- I haven't given any indication of my plans for November.

What I take offense at is the "fer us or agin' us" bullshit being slung by so many members of this board. It was ridiculous when * vomited it all over the American public post-911 and it hasn't improved with age.

Additionally, it seems more than a little presumptuous to place your value on someone else's "conscience" (btw, what's up w/the "" around conscience?), don'tcha think?

[Old and In the Way]

44. You jumped on this thread....so I assume you take my comments

personally. But hey, if the shoe fits, wear it.

As far as enlightening you; well, you're just way too smart for me. I'm just another one of those compromising pragmatists you just hate. I'm sure you have a much better candidate that you'll be voting for. I certainly don't want you to compromise your perfect ideal of a candidate....irregardless of the fact that he/she won't have any chance of being elected in 2004.

But don't let me stop you from telling us how terrible our nominee is; after-all, he is the clear favorite of the rank-and-file....no good elitist would want to be associated with that group.

[comsymp]

57. What language are you speaking?

I "jumped on this thread" means, what, that I posted on it? Busted- thought I was on a discussion board.

As for your assumptions, I thought I had already addressed that issue- won't bother with the old saw about that word, because the "me" part is clearly not applicable in this instance.

It's called reading for comprehension. Look into it.

Carnac, old boy, your mindreading skills really need work. First, unless we're sleeping together or you're paying my bills (neither), why would I take anything you or anyone else here says personally? Second, I don't hate compromising pragmatists or anyone else. Hate leads to the Dark Side-

And here's this "you" thing again- did you even bother to read my last post?

I dare you to search DU and find ONE thread in which I'm "telling <you> how terrible <your> candidate is." One. Anywhere. Please.

And while you're at it, how 'bout pulling from an undisclosed location any post I've made about having committed to a particular candidate. Go back as far as you want-

Kerry is the clear favorite of the rank & file? Definition and link, please. An interesting note: just four days ago he was trounced in my state caucus by John Edwards. Trounced - 51% Edwards, 27% Kerry. I suppose now you'll assume that I'm an Edwards supporter?

And since you imply that I'm an elitist, I'll play along: Irregardless isn't a generally accepted word, much less so than "ain't". See webster.com for details.

Oh, and by the way, I plan to vote for Kerry- I just don't like the bullying tactics used by many of his supporters here against those who don't choose to toe the party line.

[Old and In the Way]

60. Gee, all that huffin and puffin to get to the point.

"I plan to vote for Kerry"

Cool.

[comsymp]

62. That's the only point you got out of it?

And to think, I almost deleted that line because it was irrelevant to the discussion...

One more time: it's called reading for comprehension.

[Old and In the Way]

69. That was the only relevant part worth comprehending.....yes.

:-)

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ysabel]

116. hey well...

at least i read it all... :)

[comsymp]

118. TY, Ysa-

After all, we undeclared, irresponsible, childish, Bush-empowering, elitist, naive, delusional, telepathically Kerry bashing, Loyalty Oath hating Freeper-Naderite disruptors need love too... even the Yellow Dogs ;-)

[PsychoDad]

126. conscience ?

You mean to say some folks out there still have those? I thought they died along with principals...


Shame you can't find them in any politics anymore, at least not in the Demopublican party, whose motto is...

"Screw yer convictions, vote as we say! Or Else! "

And people think Democracy is lost... (/sarcasm)

[NightNurse]

90. 'Nother for the Big I List

A proctologist's dream date!:puffpiece:

[comsymp]

43. Just out of curiosity

How did Clark slide in there?

[ulysses]

14. voting for Kerry - put me on ignore anyway.

You probably won't like a lot of what I have to say.

[wasichu]

32. I was thinking the same thing

I am voting for Kerry, but I will not stop criticizing him because it is our duty to improve him because the point of politics is to be represented, and this right wing shit like assasinating people is just plain wrong.

[MisterP]

36. same here

P.S.: I'm shaking like cheese about being put on ignore!

[comsymp]

33. Hey, Uly- remember just after 9/11 when DUers used to mock * for saying

"you're either with us or with the terrorists"? Those were the days, huh?

[ulysses]

39. I'd admit to remembering that

except that it would make me a super-secret freeper. :D

[greatauntoftriplets]

40. Yikes! I remember that...

...and I was only a lurker at the time. Guess I am either a freeper or a pinko commie.

[ulysses]

41. hey, greataunt!

Don't move - the forces of righteousness will arrive shortly to escort you to your new encampment. :D

[greatauntoftriplets]

42. Well....

Gitmo has to be warmer than Chicago!

See you there!

:hi:

[Donkeyboy75]

71. Or a terra-ist.

:)

[NightNurse]

91. Okey-Dokey, SFB!

:spank:

[Ardee]

15. Well, you are certainly something....

Despite the crying and gnashing of teeth from such as you Ive seen critiques of Kerry's campaigning and his penchant for agreeing far to often with Bush and his policies but Ive never read an actually "Kerry sucks" post here. Can you point one out?

Thise who point out the fact that Nader is far more critical of Bush than is your democratic candidate are undoubtedly regretting that this is the case and hoping that, by criticising, they can someone get through to the neocons running your party that they had better trun back before they lose the damn election.

It is regrettable that you cannot seem to recognise constructive criticism or grasp the nature of the political process.

[DemosthenesOfTheWest]

16. I understand the feeling.

If I want to hear about all the mistakes Kerry is making and all of his policy shortcoming there are 1000 websites I can go to that will point these out. If I want to hear about how he's sure to lose I can just click over to The Free Republic. What I look for personally on this site is optimism, encouragement and camaraderie.

[freetobegay]

17. Welcome to DU DemosthenesOfTheWest

Please not that there are still some of us left here that feel the way you do. :hi:

[mouse7]

54. Well put, DotW

By the way, welcome to DU :)

[Redleg]

55. Well said and welcome to DU.

Or as it appears at times: Kerry Bashing Underground.

[Nlighten1]

19. I'm voting for Kerry but...

I'm holding my nose while I do it.

[jonnyblitz]

21. same n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

58. copy that

so go ahead and put me on ignore too

[quinnox]

22. Understandable

There are only a handful left that seem to be serial Kerry bashers, but they can get boring if one checks the forums often enough.

I think ignore is a valid option to use for certain thread starters, I have taken advantage of it numerous times.

[Vickers]

23. Please don't put me on ignore!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding, go ahead, I won't feel a thing.

Remember, criticism does not necessarily equal dislike. Heck, my mom criticizes me all the time.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh wait: I might've just proved yer point.

:)

[robbedvoter]

24. Eventually 99% of DU-ers will vote for Kerry. Asking for an oath now

is NOT the best approach in campaigning for Kerry.

[nolabels]

113. Snicker, snicker, snicker

hehe :D

That is funny in a way, coming to make a hysterical or even simply ignorant banner to inform people that probably already know to state the obvious

Btw I think Football and politics are much the same. Maybe the DLC should get a big marching band, a few floats for parade and some professional cheerleaders (it could also give others something to do during all this unemployment and job loss)

[charlie]

34. Vote for Kerry or I'll hold my breath

Coercion or blackmail can only work if you withhold something anyone gives a shit about.

[Old and In the Way]

45. By all means vote for Nader.

I mean, how much more damage could Bush do in the next 4 years?

[charlie]

59. I'm voting for Kerry

if I don't happen to be tied up in the basement with a gun held against my head in November.

Surprise! Really, Mr OAITW, I've been around long enough to know that you and I share the conviction that Bushco is an unprecedented horror for our country and the world. Just because I happen to not begrudge those that feel that voting for Kerry is accomodating the defeating ME-TOO DLC/ThirdWay/Neoliberal drift of the party that got us into this mess in the first place, doesn't mean that I'll throw my weight into fracturing the liberal bloc.

And during the Kerry adiminstration, when they take a pass on pursuing and prosecuting Bush criminals (Don't believe that'll happen? Then why the fuck is Lee Hamilton, in these extraordinary times, allowed senior position in the 911 investigation after his pitiful acommodationist performance in Iran-Contra?) and allow the Right to regroup and reenergize under the spirit of reconciliation and bipartisanship, let's you and me argue the wisdom of throwing unalloyed support to any ol' Democrat who offers a mere stopgap measure against the onslaught of the right.

[Old and In the Way]

61. You know what charlie?

I hate to say it, but I'm not sure how much will really change if Kerry wins but we don't retake Congress. In fact, I think a Republican majority in the Congress next session will be even more politically destructive than the one Clinton faced in his last term.
They'll be looking to blame the Bush mess on Kerry, no doubt and I suspect that they'll relocate their desire to do investigations again. Look for their concern about too much Executive Power to become their new mantra.

So I predict that if Congress remains in Republican control, there'll be no investigations and Kerry will be forced to finesse and compromise with Congress. However, if Democrats do take back control of the House (a longshot, no doubt), I think the dynamics change completely.

[charlie]

70. Yes, and...

not everyone who supports Nader, or the like, can be summarily dismissed as a callow dilletante.

You have, for now, the faith that Kerry will be steadfast in his pursuit of justice and the Right Thing. But no less a tough hombre than LBJ was warped and twisted by mere fear of the taint of "being soft on communism" and the horror of losing SE Asia to the Reds. He was pretzeled into trying to serve two antagonistic masters, the Right (Vietnam) and the Left (Great Society). I'm not telling you anything new, you lived through it. We're seeing shades of that madness again.

What are you going to do if the next administration takes the position of demurring investigation into LIHOP, the crime of the century? When they suffer political wars of attrition because they're convinced their most receptive audience hates partisanship, a delusion that rarely troubles Republicans?

And again, I'll say this thread's original poster is a weak-kneed bullying twit. Not everyone dismayed about Kerry's candidacy is a sour-grapes partisan. Plenty are actually distressed about the fate of the country and the world.

[Old and In the Way]

76. Trying to be a realist here.

No one, not Ralph Nader, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, _________, can change this country until we get an majority alignment of Democrats back into control of Congress. But, if that happens, Kerry is absolutely the best President to drive the investigations of the Republican RW. He was instrumental on getting BCCI investigated and exposed. He was there for Iran contra. I think he see's the culmination of 3 decades of Republican political control in this society. I believe he understands how these people have distorted and perverted the role of government to serve their ends and the longterm damage they've done to this country. He also knows how far they are willing to go to retain control of the system. But I believe Kerry is uniquely up to the fight...if he gets control of the House and , hopefully, the Senate.

No one person can take on the Republican Medusa (Congress/SCOTUS/Media) and expect to make substantial change. The best we can hope is to delay and obstruct the Republican agenda...unless we can take back the Congress. Real change won't happen until we (Congress) confront the aggregated sins of the past 30 years and resolve to deal with these elements once and for all.

[charlie]

82. I know

But, aren't we all? Realists, that is. Seriously, not being flippant or adversarial.

That Kerry is the encyclopedic point man for Bushco crimes, lays waste to his claim that his trust in Bush's word was violated in Iraq, doesn't it? He has had the extraordinarily rare experience of personally facing down TWO presidents who put us on a war footing for political gain. And he was fooled by the Chimp? C'mon...

Kerry may well be the best potential president of my lifetime. So, why is he erecting a firewall against his record, denying that he's a liberal? And this "run to the middle" crap is baloney. Running to the middle is an expansion of your convictions, not a repudiation.

And as to the abilities of one person taking on the Republican Machine... Ronnie Reagan was a national joke before he took office. And remained one for a good while after, was not universally beloved even in his own party. He enjoyed the support of only a Republican Senate during a part of his terms. Yet, he became a bellwether for the burgeoning rightwing ascendance. Don't dismiss the Presidency of a Dean, Kucinich, or Nader -- a charismatic character in the bully pulpit can shift the direction of the country.

[Old and In the Way]

85. Running to the middle get's you elected.

It got Bush elected....but it was a Republican majority in Congress that let him get away with everything.

I agree that Kerry did not have to change his positions at all...I'd have been quite happy with him running as a liberal progressive. But there's this media thing that the Republicans own....

I will concede that his IWR vote was purely political, but a defensible position, nonetheless. I think he did the political calculus and refused, along with many of the Democrats, to be suckered into a "pro-terrorist" vote. But it was not a green light to invade Iraq. And I'd bet Kerry would happily support a motion for impeachment on this issue if the Republicans would like to do the right thing and initiate a bill on this. Won't hold my breath on that one, though.

BTW, I'd happily support Dean or Kucinich if they were the nominee. I'd never want to suffer through a 4 year, do nothing, lecture-presidency of Nader, though.

[charlie]

95. Bush never ran to the middle,

unless the mere label compassionate conservatism provides cover for his campaigning at racist throwback Bob Jones and openly courting the likes of Rev Moon and Limbaugh.

Here's the thing -- in the 1980s, the troglodyte Republicans went for ALL the marbles. They had neither the popular support, nor a solid political framework to guarantee that they would prevail. But prevail they did, on mere chutzpah and conviction. It paid off for them, in spades.

And it's been a staple of the Republican playbook since. Since then, they've kept Democrats dancing to their tunes.

So, where's the evidence that a likewise assertion that Fuck You, We're Democrats wouldn't do the same for us? There is no evidence, because we've been too terrified to try it.

[Guaranteed]

73. Woot WOOT

Wow! :)

[charlie]

87. Hey!

WOOT back atcha! Thank you! :) :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

77. RE: Lee Hamilton's appointment.

I believe he was appointed by Bush? For precisely the reason you stated. Are there sellouts in the Democratic Party? Sure, no doubt.

[charlie]

83. No, sadly

Democratic members were appointed by Daschle. That's what gives the commission the sheen of "bipartisanship." But, when our side makes tepid appointments like Mitchell (read Mitchell's Men of Zeal for his self-congratulatory thoughts on averting a "contitutional crisis" in Iran-Contra), only to replace him with Lee Hamilton, who got rolled by none other than Dick Cheney in IC, then you can be assured that interests other than those of the neocons have been hobbled -- by us.

(Note that Repubs weren't at all bashful about nominating KISSINGER, for God's sake, to the panel)

[Mari333]

37. I have to vote for Kerry

and I will, so will all my kids, including my stepson in Baghdad. But I will also hold Kerry's feet to the fire once he is in because I will not allow him to ignore the message of Dean and Kucinich.
anyone but bush.
My kids life is on the line, I have to vote for Kerry.

[Walt Starr]

146. I've been following your family's situation

Mari, you are the only reason I will be casting my ballot for Kerry. I sincerely believe Kerry will do nothing to change the situation in Iraq, but your hope that he will is enough for him to get my vote.

[Redleg]

47. It's too bad when there are more anti-Kerry posts than anti-Bush.

It must mean we have been invaded by 1) Freepers and/or 2) Naderites.

[G_j]

48. it might be too bad

if it was true

[Redleg]

52. Silly me- those anti-Kerry posts were really pro-Kerry.

I guess you caught me.

[Guaranteed]

53. The "anti-Kerry" posts, as you call them, ARE anti-Bush.

They express anger that Kerry ISN'T CRITICIZING WHAT BUSH IS DOING.

[Redleg]

56. There are also a number of posts criticizing Kerry

for being a Vietnam war criminal, "Bush-Lite," etc. Look around, maybe you'll see some of them.

[sangh0]

102. Some can't even admit to what they're doing

SOme actually think others will believe that calling Kerry Bush*-lite" is the way to attack Bush*. Hypocrisy is the tribute deceit pays to the truth.

[Guaranteed]

148. Kerry needs to be tougher on Bush.

How the hell you justify attacking someone for saying that Kerry should be attacking Bush harder, I have NO idea.

[freeforall]

49. Hmmm, using threats. How democratic.

So much for freedom to dissent, or have a rational discussion.

Agree or else!

[Donkeyboy75]

72. Oh, come on. Do you give a shit?

If not, it's not really a threat. Childish maybe, but not a threat.

[InflateableLove]

50. Exactly. ABB or get shunned. Good and timely message.

Party line or nothing! ABB good...SOTK bad!

[KG]

51. oh, is this like a mini inquisition? how cute!

:)

[Wonk]

63. You're not allowed to put mods on ignore, btw.

You do realize that some DUers aren't even eligible to vote in November, right? Some are simply too young (like JohnKleeb for example) while others aren't American citizens (for example HEyHEY, DU mod, who happens to be a Canuck).

[mitchum]

64. Damn, there's a lot of blank spaces on this thread

[ibegurpard]

112. Please add me if you haven't already.

eom

[mitchum]

123. Sure! Because I find the humorless particularly annoying...

:)

[Kazak]

65. *holds nose*

I'm still on board.

[Failure]

66. Voting for kerry, but since you mentioned it...how many of you

have me on ignore already?

[NightNurse]

92. OOOooooops! NOW, I Do!

:spank:

[Failure]

104. that makes me sad.

:cry:

[robbedvoter]

67. Voting Kerry, put me on ignore - as others said

After all, kerry did the same anyway. begala explained this morning on AAR - we are secured, time to go for that 10% in the middle. So, excuse me while I snooze.

[ngGale]

68. Voting for Kerry, never have voted RED, never will, especially..

this election. Supreme Court, war from hell extending the next 20 years. Cannot divide the vote and allow Bush another 4 years. My kids lives are at stake too. Kerry knows what combat is. War is no picnic.

[Old and In the Way]

78. Indeed.

I have 2 reasons why I want to see John Kerry win in November. Their names are Tom and Julie.

[Djinn]

79. I'll be voting for for ABH (anyone but Howard)

as I'm an Australian and wanna see us wake up from John Howard's 1950's Menzian nightmare.

I don't really know how I'd feel if I were entitled to vote in the upcoming US election, I probably would have pushed hard for Dean (would have preferred Kucinich but doesn't seem like many others did) and when that was all said and done been mightily pissed off at the choices offered.

In the end I'd probably vote Kerry if I was in a state in which my vote would count but I'd still HATE doing it.

Telling people it's loyalty or banishment isn't the best way to convince people - maybe after the election if Kerryv wins all of the people who put him there could push for some impetus into political reform so that you weren't faced with a choice of only Republican or Democrat - two parties perrenially fighting it out isn't all that democratic.

[oasis]

93. Let's see if the draft board ignores them during Bush's second term.

[Guava Jelly]

96. I Am with you

Vote kerry or vote bush Nader is a vote for bush period.

[Forkboy]

97. lol

:freak:

[JNelson6563]

98. This is GD04 swill

Why is it cluttering up GD?

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

105. Not looking for the best person

Just voting for the person who will do the least harm.

'One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.'
—Plato

[Screaming Lord Byron]

110. Put me on ignore, I'm not voting for Kerry.

Of course, not being an American citizen may have some influence on that. NDP all the way, baby!:evilgrin:

[RapidCreek]

114. Put me on ignore

I don't like dittoheads...be they Republican or Democrat.

RC

[noiretextatique]

132. likewise...eom

[RetroLounge]

115. Poop

:eyes:

:boring:

RL

[Commendatori]

117. I'm voting for Kerry, but put me on ignore anyway

because I won't be bullied into voting one way or another by someone I've never met. I'm only voting for John "I don't fall down, the SOB pushed me" Kerry because Bush is such an asshole anyway, so if you're truly in love with Kerry you won't miss me.

Maybe if Kerry had the stones to call himself a liberal instead of shying away from a tag that he should be proud of, more of us would like him. Think about that as you put me on ignore.

I realize that I'm new to DU, but is this "do as I say or go on ignore" thing common here?

[Bill Todd]

119. What a really great idea!

If we all put those with whom we don't agree on ignore, that will cut the clutter down to a very manageable level. And since that clutter consists almost solely of the same views posted over, and over, and over by the same people, no substance will be lost in the process (while likely elevating the degree of courtesy in the discussion to unprecedented levels).

Perhaps the forum software could include a special per-post flag which anyone who actually had something new to contribute to the discussion could set to identify messages that people might like to un-ignore. Not only would this allow the continuing evolution and interchange of ideas, but it at least might encourage people to think before posting redundant material. Misuse of the flag could be alertable, and the miscreant simply deprived of the ability to set it for some suitable period of time.

Hell, I might put everyone on ignore under those circumstances!

- bill

[Ardee]

144. I would respond but.....

noting that you have had a great idea I am summarily ignoring you......:+

[Pastiche423]

121. Please sign me up

for that list of yours.

How sad is it that you demand that everyone march to the same drummer, especially when that drummer, not only does not know the tune, but does not care to learn it.

His tune? It's slow, boring and inspires no one to dance to it.

[Misunderestimator]

122. I have to kinda agree with this DU Rule:

SPECIAL GUIDELINES RELATING TO THE 2004 ELECTION

Perhaps the most critical question currently facing progressives is who should receive the Democratic nomination for president in 2004. In order to encourage a robust and thoughtful debate on this topic, we are instituting a few simple guidelines.

Negative attacks are an unavoidable part of any political campaign, and therefore they are permitted against any Democratic presidential candidate. However, once the Democratic party officially nominates its candidate for president, then the time for fighting is over and the negative attacks against candidates must stop. The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome. If you wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website. As the election season draws closer, we may expand this rule to include Democratic candidates for other political offices.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political organizing activity by supporters of any political party other than the Democratic party. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic party candidate.

Your may not use your signature line to attack any Democrat.

For more information, please read "DU and the 2004 Democratic Presidential Primary".
--------------------------

The bold is mine, and seems to apply here.

In case you haven't read them, you can find them here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html


I hate authority and regulations, but I LOVE those rules. Make a lot a sense... Give em a read. :)

[bloom]

128. you know

if there is nothing to talk about - what is the point of coming here. Vote a straight ticket and forget it?

I plan to vote for Kerry - but I'm with the others who say that if you are afraid you might hear something you don't like - by all means, ignore me now.

[Uzybone]

130. Stop wasting time with these naysayers

they'd rather see Bush win than admit they backed the wrong horse in the primaries. Anyone still pretending its not Bush vs Kerry is either deluded, dishonest or GOP.

[IronLionZion]

131. put me on ignore

I'm obviously voting for Kerry but this sounds like fascist...er...Republican talk

[VolcanoJen]

133. Am I allowed to rant about Kerry, even though I'll of course vote for him?

I don't want to earn your wrath, FoeOfBush, but when Kerry needs to be slapped back into action-mode, I'm more than willing to do it.

Of course I'm voting Kerry in November, in BattleGround Ohio, no less. But I plan to continue to voice my opinions when he's being a shitty candidate. :-)

[Misunderestimator]

134. Here's an excerpt that addresses your question:

The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome. If you wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

----------------------------

The purposes of this website seem pretty clear to me. :)

[VolcanoJen]

135. Thanks for educating me about this website.

I've only been a member since Day One, but I appreciate your cut-n-paste.

I'll criticize Kerry all I like, thank-you-very-much. However, the Dem Nominee is still going to get my vote.

136. You've been here since Day one?

cool.
I do mean, very cool.

Now prepare for your reeducation by the newer members.
Kind of like Stalin and Trotsky, you know...??
.:mad: O8) ;-)

[VolcanoJen]

138. Kinda, yeh.

Guess I should just zip it and jump on the Kerry "I'm Not Fighting" Bandwagon.

}(

And, seriously, since Day One. Day One, and proud-as-fuck about that.

[Misunderestimator]

139. Go to it then, man... :) absolutely n/t

[VolcanoJen]

140. I'm no man, but I do believe in Free Pro-Democratic Speech...

.. on this website.

And I'll vote for Kerry, even if I have to take a shot of Jager and hold my nose while I do it.

[Misunderestimator]

141. I'm just saying that there is some strength in unity

... and we need a unified front to fight the war that's coming over the horizon. (And I meant "man" in that 60's sense... not gender-specific really.)

[VolcanoJen]

142. You don't receive Unity just by asking for it.

Kerry has a lot he needs to show me, right now. Of course I'll vote for him, but sending him money and campaigning my ass off for him are two seperate issues.

He could start by disagreeing with Bush on a few things... namely, the Iraq War, and the latest Sharon decision.

[greatauntoftriplets]

145. There is no strength in marching blindly in lockstep.

That was Hitler's schtick.

[NoPasaran]

137. Voting for Kerry

And will be a Kerry delegate at the state convention but feel free to ignore me.

I don't actually have too many problems with Kerry, just some of those who identify themselves as his supporters.

[fob]

143. Thank you all who chose to post on this thread.

Really, this is my highest posted-to thread ever. Sadly the reaction to it is not entirely unexpected, but I was hoping for better.

For the life of me I can't seem to find where all the fire and brimstone comes from. There is post after post of people who claim my post is "demanding they do something" or is undemocratic, or is fascist or republicanlike. I've been called a dittohead for some reason.

I thought I was clear that I supported any discussion and debate about Mr Kerry, good, bad or otherwise, that's my first sentence!

Maybe my "threat" about ignore was too 'childish' as one DUer said, but I just couldn't take one more anti-Kerry thread. Asking for support of the presumptive DEMOCRATIC nominee on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND shouldn't ignite a flame war of those eager to PROVE why they don't have to pledge their support, should it?


And no I don't have a link to a thread where someone claims "Kerry sucks", but I bet there is one somewhere. And that's fine by me, just let me know he can count on your vote!

As for me I voted for Sharpton in the primaries, so again, I am not "in love with my candidate, Kerry". My choice is not going to be the nominee, but I damn well am gonna vote for who is.

I find most ironic those that posted solely to say to go ahead and ignore them anyway.

So in summary, I really hope you all take the time to look over Kerry or ask what you need to ask but in the end, please join in voting for the good Senator. And no, that's not a "threat", an "order" or any other sinister thing. This is my second to last post. I will still lurk here and after this thread takes it's final dive to the archives, I will post my password and someone else can take the handle. I'm too disgusted with bashing heads with the "choir".

The last thing I ask before you respond to this post is to reread mari333's post(I think it's #37). That's why it's so important...

[John_H]

153. Great thread!!!! You just saved me from he babble

of dozens of Freepers and/or one-percenters self-absorbed, authoritarian, and/or dim-bulb to understand that a vote for Fidelity Ralph enables Chimp and helps destroy America since it amounts to witholding a vote from the only guy who canbeat him.