Bill Press on MSNBC: the draft is a 'great idea.'

[Lori Price CLG]

Bill press is advocating the military draft, and he is the liberal. The conservative, Pat Bucahanan, disagrees. I guess I would vote for Pat over Bill.

Rove is playing us like a fiddle. Now, he is succeeding in DIVIDING the Left. :grr:

-Lori

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. I would have to support Pat over Bill too!

[LittleApple81]

2. I think the first one bringing the draft idea to the fore was Rangel.

He wanted to make middle class Americans of what is at stake: lives of loved ones. He said as long as only poor whites and minorities make up the majority of the army, America will not wake up.

[mark414]

4. first 635 drafted

should be a son, nephew, or close relative of a congressman.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

61. ...daughter, wife, brother, cousin, father, mother,and in-laws...

[edison1958]

8. I agree with Cong. Rangel

....that the burdens of a free society should be shared....served 24 years in the Army...8+ active duty, 16+ reserve....but the military does not---not---want a draft....it's just too disruptive and expensive.

[bloom]

12. "the burdens of a free society should be shared"

I would agree with you if we did not have the military going around killing people just because we can. And a lying government that can't be trusted.

[Bandit]

22. Perhaps the military would not be used so often if everyone's son or daugh

were likely to end up being a part of it. I'm sure a draft would temper the misuse of the military immediately.

[edison1958]

29. My Point Exactly.....

.......thanks for making it for me!

[bloom]

33. while I think it would be nice if you were right

I don't believe that you are.

Nobody is listening the war resisters now. I don't think it would change.

There are too many gung-ho people proud that their kids are signing up and clueless about what they are signing up for.

So I think people against the draft would be treated like the war resisters are now. They would be chastised for being un-American and they would be ignored.

[Blue_Roses]

67. Excellent point and after watching Rangel

on Crossfire defend it, I think this is where he too is coming from. He's tired of the weight of this country's freedom being placed on those who are less fortunate

[edison1958]

23. If everybody was engaged.......

....and participating in the administration of our gov't....instead of just paying taxes and ignoring the rest of the issues until they hit home, we'd all be better off. Many, many ways to serve....not just in the military....altho I did for many years.

[mondo joe]

68. I support a draft, but with no deferrments.

No getting out for the sons of the powerful and wealthy.

[bloom]

73. we would still have

A lying government that can't be trusted.

And a military going around killing people just because we can.

Our country is out of control.



It's not like we NEED to spend $350? billion more than any other country. (What ARE we up to this year?)

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/world-military-spending.cfm

A draft would NOT help. It would just give our country:

1) more people to kill with.

plus

2) we would be spending more than ever on the military.

___________

P.S. Undoubtably the military types think that would be great. :puke:

[ender]

18. they may not want a draft - but...

theyre a little short on boots on the ground.

its coming - no matter who wins in november.

they're going to need at least 400,000 total in theatre to effectively quell iraq.

we just dont have the numbers. its going to have to be this way.

i wonder if they're breaking the old bastards out of the mothballs to break the draftees in.

[edison1958]

24. I'm one....

of the old bastards. Haven't gotten orders, don't expect to. Ain't gonna happen!

[PaDUer]

42. Military does not want

people who do NOT want to be there. Let all the freeps go since they're wrapped/warped.

[Emboldened Chimp]

57. Oh, Freeps don't want to be there, either

They talk a good game, but if forced to go, you can bet your bottom dollar that they'd try like hell to get out of it.

[RapidCreek]

51. As do I.

He forgot one important group however....stupid people. They make up a significant chunk of the military.....the fellows who catch bullets that is. The military does not want smart people around, because smart people question authority when they recognize it's misuse.

Smart people come home from the war and do what Kerry did. They speak out....and that cannot be had.

RC

[edison1958]

55. ***Stupid People?***Grrrrrrrrr.........

You sleep soundly at night because these "stupid" people are willing to protect your freedoms. The military serves the Constitution---not any one administration, party or regime. Give them the respect they deserve......grrrrrrrrrr

[RapidCreek]

70. Don't proselytize to me about the US military

I am an honorably discharged United States Navel Veteran. I dealt with quite a few stupid people while I served. People like the idiot infantryman I heard on Television two days ago who explained to his interviewer that he felt good doing what he was doing in Iraq because it was pay back for 9/11. Stupid people who don't know that George W. Bush is a chickenshit, swaggering, bully coward who didn't have the balls to live up to the same oath of enlistment he expects them to live up to. Stupid people who don't understand that respect isn't bestowed upon one because of job or position but earned.

Nobody in Iraq is protecting my freedoms. If you believe that they are...NAME ONE! The soldiers in Iraq are being used as penny on the dollar mercenaries by corporate interests which believe they are above contributing to the tax base which pays their salaries.

I sleep soundly at night because I have the intellect to know the difference between right and wrong and the balls to live my life accordingly. My sound sleep does not require the murder and subjugation of people who have done me and/or my country no harm.

Peddle your sycophantic, self righteous bullshit to someone who's stupid enough to swallow it.

If as you claim, you are an old fart who hasn't gotten orders; in other words, you DID NOT serve during Operation Enduring Freedom or Iraqi Freedom, where in the hell do you get off flying a Global Terror Expeditionary Medal? Talk about a lack of respect. I'd hazard to guess you never served at all....because anyone who did wouldn't pull such shit.

RC
USN Vet

[carols]

72. As the mother of three draft-aged children, I totally agree with you!

There is no way anyone could state this better - you said it all! The only draft I could get behind is one that specifically targeted the stupid, chickenshit cowards that sent our troops to Iraq in the first place - a selective service that selected Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Delay, AshKKKroft, Rove - and oh yes, their fawning media-love-slaves. Name those names - and only those names - and perhaps I might reconsider my position on the draft.

My children will not die so that Charlie Rangel and Bill Press can make their point. Speaking of which - what IS their point? Does anyone here honestly believe that Biff, Buffy and the Bush twins will shoulder a rifle and go off to war? For God's sake. After three years of watching how these people operate, it is ludicrous to suggest that they would not be able to avoid service. Bush himself did it with the help of a good cover story and a lot of help from the "powers that be." If the Bush twins were drafted, they would wind up serving cocktails at a USO somewhere in California (where they may or may not show up for "duty").

Have you all not seen the vast number of stupid people with those little flags all over their cars? Guess what? Most of them won't bat an eye if junior is deployed on a dangerous mission. Their hearts will swell with pride and their little pea brains will buzz with excitement and they will run into work and hang pictures of their soon-to-be-cannon-fodder all over their cubicles.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again - you don't call the neo-cons bluff. You don't play head games with sociopaths.

<rant off>

Carol

[Claire Beth]

28. you are entirely CORRECT! n/t

[Renew Deal]

3. The draft talk is good.

It focuses people on the bullshit and mismanagement in this war.

[still_one]

5. If there was a draft

perhaps Congress wouldn't go into fool hardy adventures such as Iraq

[Solidarity]

69. The Draft And Vietnam

You mean like Vietnam?

[Mari333]

6. Good. shake up the sleeping US public who are behind these wars

make them shake and quake with fear over the thought of their little jrs and misses going to the front lines
they will wake up from their slumber real fast when the war starts killing their kids
If I have to suffer, let them suffer too
Or bring the troops home NOW

[July]

21. And what about the rest of us who AREN'T behind these wars?

Those of us who opposed this war from the beginning?

Why should my "little jrs" go to the front lines? And I am talking about 2 real sons, one of whom will be in the "first priority" batch if a draft is instituted next year.

I'm already awake, I'm already suffering, and I DON'T WANT MY KIDS TO SUFFER, TOO.

Why should my kids pay for freepers' war fantasies?

[Mari333]

39. The US public wont wake up until a draft is re instated

actually it going on now..they are stop lossing the guard and reserves and not letting them leave..they tried to do it to one of my sons already, and it took a great deal of work to let him get his honourable discharge from the guard. Nonetheless, they took my stepson, who is in the reserves. I was against the war from the beginning..I have 2 other sons draft age, I already have them tickets out of the country
The draft may be the only thing that wakes people up
I have a kid in Baghdad who doesnt want to be there, I was against Bush and I never considered him my president..didnt exempt me from anything or my stepson, who hates Bush
so I hope the draft comes back, because I dont see anything stopping this war except that
or
bring the troops home now
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[redqueen]

7. Liberals should back the draft

It seems like it's the ONLY way to get people to think seriously about a war -- if not they just say 'rah rah rah' because it's someone else's kid that has to go risk death for their fix of jingoism.

[Mari333]

9. amen n/t

[gasperc]

16. right wing may want draft to support their imperialism

but as it stands now most support war since essentially they are not sacrificing anything except tax dollars

So the big questions are: would a draft drop support for the Iraq and other wars from constituency pressure now that sacrifice is necessary?
or would the draft give the pro-war group the resources they need to re-make the world into their vision?

[redqueen]

19. I think the former

That's what happened with Vietnam, and that's what would happen now. People don't want their families exterminated for some PNACer's or PPIer's fealty to <redacted>.

[Bandit]

32. they are not sacrificing anything except tax dollars

You mean my tax dollars. They pay little in taxes. As Leonna Helmsly put it "Taxes are for the little people" They know not the meaning of sacrifice.

[LostInAmerica]

25. This will come back to haunt us

Under no circumstances should we support the draft. I say this not only because I have sons not that far from draft age. Rangel and others can talk about the egalitarian nature of a draft -- about how it will force the children of the "elites" to serve their country -- but this notion is delusional at best. In the event of a draft there have to be people who are exempt. We can't send over people who are genuinely handicapped or disabled in any way. We shouldn't send over kids who are the sole bread-winners for their families. One could argue that families with only one child shouldn't be obligated to send their lone offspring. Etc. Etc.

Deferments are necessary and fair. There's no getting around them. A compulsory draft that affects everybody of a certain age is counter-productive. Hell, if I were of draft age, you really wouldn't me sent over there because I have an ocular condition that could potentially blind me. You want me over there shooting with my night vision goggles on? Talk about your friendly fire!

So, as long as there are deferments, there will be ways for the kids with connections to get out. Always. That's the nature of the beast. To think otherwise is just foolish.

If we support the draft, then we may help to facilitate one. This could blow up in our faces. Hagel's comments on the draft yesterday clearly strike me as a GOP trial balloon and, pardon the mixed metaphors, our support could help turn this into the nose under the tent.

We should fight against a draft with all we've got. We must. Even if the children of the "elite" are sent to fight and die in Iraq, their service, injuries and death should not cheer us. This was an unprovoked, voluntary and illegal war. Nobody should have to fight and die for the lies of the junta. I don't care if your parents are Rangers. Hell, Jenna and Barbara shouldn't have to go over there. As for their father, well, that's a different story.

And you can bet that, while a handful of rich kids will serve, plenty of middle- and lower-class kids will get caught in the draft driftnet like so many dolphins. Should we sacrifice them to prove a point?

Mari333, I read your posts all the time and truly sympathize with you. The things you write sadden and anger me. If I were a praying man, you'd definitely be in my prayers. But the idea here isn't to send more kids into that goddamned meat grinder. It's to get them home, as soon as possible, as safely as possible.

[redqueen]

35. I'm not going to fight it nor will I actively work for it

I don't think there should be no deferments whatsoever, either.

My point is that regardless of how many people can avoid service, enough Americans will take the possibility of war more seriously, which will result in stopping it before it starts.

We are up against the MIC. We cannot back down due to fear. Doing so is cowardly and forces future generations to fight this battle.

[Mari333]

43. I wish I could say I agree with you

but if the US public doesnt have their own ox gored a bit, they are "out of sight out of mind" and they arent suffering enough to kick Bush out..maybe the idea of a draft and never ending war will wake their butts up, being that they are lazy and uninformed and refuse to let go of their war fantasies, as long as its other peoples kids.
They will drop those fantasies in no time flat if they know their kid is going.

[LostInAmerica]

45. But we don't know that

Mari, I see your point and on the surface, it sounds good in theory. In fact, I used to think that reinstating the draft would lead to rioting in the streets and ultimately, the overthrow of the junta. I used to have a real "bring it on" kind of attitude about the draft, in spite of the fact that I have a teenage son and another one about to hit his teens. Then the reality of the war and the Murkin response to it kicked in.

April, as I'm sure you know, has been the bloodiest and most tragic month of this illegal war. Over 100 servicemen and women have died this month, the highest rate of troop deaths the US has seen since Vietnam in '71. That's an alarming statistic as I'm sure you can tell by the widespread anti-war protests, the mainstream media's relentless calls for immediate withdrawal and the pResident's plummeting approval numbers. Oh, wait. That's my fantasy I just described. The reality is that none of this is happening and W -- in spite of what had to be THE worst "presidential" press conference in American history -- is actually pulling out ahead of Kerry in the polls. This is not America; it's the fucking Twilight Zone.

So, don't count on the draft being the thing that finally wakes this dumbass country up. 700 dead hasn't done it. No WMDs hasn't done it. No Saddam/al-Qaeda link hasn't done it. No, I believe that if there is a serious call for a draft, Fox and its imitators will line up behind it and the sheeple will all drink the conscription Kool-Aid. And they'll all watch with puffed out chests as Johnny marches off to war. Yes, my faith in the sheeple has deteriorated to this incredible degree. But show me the evidence that I'm wrong.

[robertpaulsen]

64. I fear that you are correct.

I also fear that the original poster was correct in saying that this issue is being used to successfully DIVIDE liberals. Just read the varied responses on this thread! Sure, there are the few supporting the draft because they feel compulsory service is good because it is patriotic/character building/equality promoting or something similar. These sentiments I totally disagree with on principle. But it seems like the majority of liberals speaking out in favor of the draft do so out of the belief that things need to get worse before they can get better, that America needs a shake-up before it can wake-up.

How could things get worse before they get better BESIDES a draft occuring? How about Patriot Act II? Does anyone here really believe the BFEE would allow a draft without having the means to keep the majority of the population compliant? I'm not sure everyone here realizes how much freedom America stands to lose under a second term of Bush. It's not just about the mandatory military service for the young and able, it's about the possibility of losing your citizenship because you spoke out against the involuntary servitude! This might not be the worst, I'm sure there's a Patriot Act III in the works that would make such protesters "enemy combatants" who, being stripped of citizenship, would qualify for Gitmo or another similar concentration camp.

So yes, I believe that anyone advocating the draft is advocating unleashing a wild animal beyond our ability to tame.

[July]

26. A draft might change the minds of the "rah rah rahs",

but it will affect MY kids, too, and we've always opposed the war.

This reminds me of Nader's argument that putting Bush in office was going to make people wake up on the environment, the two-party system, etc.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's fuck up a whole lot of people to prove our point. Heck, somebody could die, but then the purity of our position will be proved right.

Sorry, I'm not buying this. I grieve for those dying now. If freepers are so callous as to have to see their own kids in danger to catch on, that's not my problem, and I don't want my kids drafted to wake up some GODDAMNED FREEPER. And I don't particularly want freepers' kids killed, either, any more than I want the troops in Iraq now killed.

[okieinpain]

30. rangel is playing with dynamite, because the repugs will deny it

until the elections are over and then do an about face and call for the draft. but we will force people to vote for bush because no one wants their kid in iraq

[redqueen]

36. Start working on getting conscientious objector status now

I don't want anyone's children killed either.

The reality is there will be a draft no matter who wins. Better that it happens sooner rather than later.

[JohnKleeb]

38. dont you need testimony red?

I dont show my pacifism that often but its there.

[IrateCitizen]

41. Yes, but you can get it from a variety of sources

Ever participate in any activist causes or peace marches? You should be able to get letters from people who know you within them.

Are you a member of a religious organization? If so, your pastor/rabbi/whatever will write you a letter. Many churches even carry a CO registry (I'm registered with the UU's).

You can also get letters from family members and/or your parents.

My advice would be to start compiling these things now, John.

[IrateCitizen]

40. Rangel's draft bill doesn't recognize CO's

I know this for a fact from the woman who heads up a local Quaker Peace Witness with whom I have volunteered as a counselor for the GI Rights Hotline.

She's been active in CO and counseling issues since Vietnam and does work on this with the UN. She has said repeatedly that Rangel's bill makes NO PROVISIONS for Conscientious Objection.

[redqueen]

47. That's messed up

I can't support that bill. No one who is opposed to killing other humans should be forced to.

WTH was he thinking?!

[Fluffdaddy]

10. Freedom is not Free.

The Draft is a 'great idea. Freedom is not Free. Everyone.......EVERY able body person should serve in the military. I did four years in the military "volunteered" an I'm as Liberal as they come on "most" subjects............And it made me a better person/man

[redqueen]

13. If this were the case

Would the public have been so mindlessly gullible as bu$hco presented its pack of lies to justify getting their war on?

I think not.

[Bake]

44. Yes, but you SURVIVED IT!

I don't buy the argument that it will prevent wars. How many draftees and/or volunteers died in Vietnan before the country collectively woke up? It's too high a price to pay.

Bake

[sniffa]

11. i'm aLL in favor of the draft

aLthough i have the Luxury of being handicapped so no draft for me. if they change requirements on the draft so i am capabLe of being drafted, i just wouLdn't go.

[Demonaut]

14. I think a military draft is a bad idea, but mandatory military training

such as the Israeli's and Swiss have does have its merits.

[Carni]

15. I agree with Bill TO A POINT

I think the reason guys like Press are advocating the draft is because they want the public to pull their heads out of their butts and start smelling the coffee...Now, I can see the logic in that to a point, BUT I have several objections to the draft

The first and foremost, being the obvious one (what the hell are we even doing in Iraq in the first place)

The rest of my objections revolve around the fact that I think drafted participants make lousy soldiers in general.

In summation however I just don't want to see anyone drafted to partake in this farce!

[OneBlueSky]

17. he must not have any draft-age kids . . . n/t

.

[seabeyond]

20. hey i listened and liberals doing this does two things

their suggestion bush is never going to do, assuring no draft from now, and letting liberals say, if it were everyone child and not just poor and middle class there wouldnt be a war.

[Claire Beth]

27. Here is why he said that...

Bill Press would support a military draft for this reason.... The greatest majority of the military volunteer because they cannot afford to go to college and the military is/was a good place to obtain work experience and hopes for a college education ... As a rule, the wealthy (which usually translates to "REPUBLICANS")... would keep their kids in college or pay to have their children disqualified for health reasons OR in some cases send them out of the country. If the draft is reinstated (as being proposed) it would cause the hawks and CHICKENHAWKS to be very very cautious about going to war. It's different when *their* kids are affected. I feel the very same way as Bill Press. I am NOT for a military draft, but it would certainly cause congress to be VERY cautious about sending their own family or their friends to fight a war based on false intelligence of WMD's and OIL. Do you think GWB and Cheney would have been for the Iraq war if their kids were in danger of going?

[kcwayne]

48. I agree completely. And it is a disgrace that the Bush twins

have not enlisted. Groups such as Moveon.org should publish the names of all the Senators and Representatives that voted for war whose military age children have not enlisted. These weasels should be outed and ridiculed for being the hypocrites they are.

[elfin]

31. It won't be a "draft"

it wil be an "emergency call up" or some such nonsense terminology suggesting it is limited in time and scope. especially if they start after Iran, Syria etc. with NO help from others as usual.

[Nashyra]

34. I agree with Bill Press

because of his reasoni8ng which was described well above.

[redqueen]

37. Aren't they doing this already?

Pardon me if I'm remembering this wrong, but I thought they either already were or were working on plans to draft 'special skills' personnel. (computer programmers?)

[Carni]

62. You're kidding me?

They are actually seeking computer programmers? For real?

This is ironic because I have a fatheaded RW relative that I am not even speaking to over bush and company and he happens to be a programmer.

Is there an age cut off for that because I would love to see his big mouth on the next boat to Baghdad.

Does anyone know what other specialized fields they are going after?

[redqueen]

65. I was wrong

It's not already happening, but it's definitely in the planning stages.

http://slashdot.org/articles/04/03/13/1738221.shtml?tid=103&tid=99

[Carni]

74. Thanks for the link!

[Generator]

46. Maybe he realizes that the side that wants eternal war for peace

is the side that should realize everybody must pay for it.

Or maybe he is a smart liberal and realizes that the "slam dunk" to peel votes from Bush is to tell the truth that a draft is coming. And aren't many Republicans white men under 40? Oh well. I'm a woman over 40. Get the government you deserve, people.

If you want to go to war, Bush/Cheney ' 04!

[Zynx]

49. It's a good idea in my opinion.

It would shatter support for the war. It's easy to support a war when it doesn't affect you, but when it does, it's hard.

[Iceburg]

66. Don't Blame the Dems -- This idea was first floated by the Rethugs in 2001

H.R.3598

Title: To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03598:

Sponsor: Rep Smith, Nick (introduced 12/20/2001)

COSPONSORS(1), ALPHABETICAL :
Rep Bartlett, Roscoe G. - 2/6/2002
Rep Weldon, Curt - 12/20/2001(withdrawn - 4/11/2002)

STATUS: (color indicates Senate actions)
12/20/2001:Referred to the House Committee on Armed Services.
1/28/2002: Executive Comment Requested from DOD.
1/28/2002: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.

[Lori Price CLG]

50. They thinking beyond Iraq... Syria? Who is next?

After Dictator Bush steals the election in November, he is sure to invade elsewhere as *all* constraints and illusions will be moot. If the Bush-Rove terror team carries out even one small act of terror on US soil, he can eliminate all dissent, under the guise of 'national security.'
-Lori

[Dems Will Win]

53. Press and Rangel and Hollings are fucking idiots, lets face it

They are muddying up the waters so people can't see that Bush is already activating the DRAFT behid their backs!

The following timeline gives you the main events indicating the resumption of the military draft. According to this, the draft will be needed to maintain troop levels in Iraq past March 2005, barring double deployments. $28 million is allocated by the Selective Service to reduce activation time from the current 8 months to 75 days by March 31, 2005. If Bush asks Congress on April 1, 2005 to reinstate conscription, the first Draft Lottery could be June 15, 2005. A Medical Draft and a new Special Skills Draft would also be activated automatically.

Impending Draft Timeline

1994 – The Grand Chessboard by Zbignew Brzezinski compares Central Asia to a chess game with Russia and China--which must eventually result in an American “win”. Control of the world’s oil supply and dominance in the 21st Century is at stake, as cheap oil ends in the 2010s. Noting that the Central Asian Republics are infinitely more important than any other region--save the Mideast--because “an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil reserves is located in the region, in addition to important minerals, including gold… Any successful American policy must focus on Eurasia as a whole and be guided by a Geostrategic design…That puts a premium on maneuver and manipulation in order to prevent the emergence of a hostile coalition that could eventually seek to challenge America's primacy…"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465027261/102-5321285-9753763?v=glance

1990s – “Project For A New American Century” and other right-wing organizations develop strategy for a “uni-polar world” ruled by the United States with many US bases in the Mideast and Central Asia. Invading Iraq and controlling the world’s oil supply becomes the Neo-Con manifesto.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html
http://www.presentdanger.org/pdf/frontier/1031neocon.pdf
Article by Will Pitt: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

September 11, 2001 – The 9-11 Attack. A “War on Terror” is begun by Bush with the agreement of the Congress. In the mission of the Selective Service, it is stated that the Volunteer Army is only intended for peacetime. In case of war, the nation may turn to the Selective Service. That is why it must always be kept as an option, even if dormant.

January 8, 2002 - On January 8, 2002, President Bush signed the No Child Left Behind Act, supposedly to provide accountability education policies. Yet hidden within the 670-page piece of legislation is Section 9528: “…each local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide, on a request made by military recruiters or an institution of higher education, access to secondary school students names, addresses, and telephone listings.” All schools must comply with this unfunded mandate or they lose their federal funding. This amounts to legislated blackmail for student names. The act also says: “A secondary school student or the parent of the student may request that the student’s name, address, and telephone listing … not be released without prior written parental consent, and the local educational agency or private school shall notify parents of the option to make a request and shall comply with any request.”
http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html

Early 2003 - Iraq War, 250,000 out of 480,000 active-duty troops deployed, conquer Iraq within a few weeks. Yet the U.S. has no plan ready for reconstruction or democracy and Iraqis, happy at liberation from Saddam, grow sour at the slow pace, the continued lack of electricity and fuel and the isolated civil control of the CPA. Garner soon replaced by Bremer who is no better at speeding up Reconstruction, and the resistance grows with disaffected Iraqis, old regrouped Baathists and new foreign fighters. Except for the British, substantial foreign troops are impossible, given Bush’s desire to keep total control of Iraq. The lack of diplomacy, planning and incompetence adds years to the time high US troop levels will be needed to maintain control of Iraq and rebuild and exploit its oilfields.

Summer 2003 – Philadelphia Draft Board members “unexpectedly” told to recruit new members for Board vacancies during Summer training. (from Nov. 3 Salon article)
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/03/draft/index_np.html

July 25, 2003 – World Net Daily article on plans for the medical draft (HCPDS). System could draft up to 80,000 doctors, nurses and specialists, men and women.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33754

September 3, 2003 – The Congressional Budget Office warns that “the Army lacks sufficient active-duty forces to maintain its current level of nearly 150,000 troops in Iraq beyond next spring (march 2004). "The Army does not have enough active-duty component forces to simultaneously maintain the occupation at its current size, limit deployments to one year, and sustain all of its other commitments" http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16689-2003Sep2?language=printer

September 23, 2003 – Draft Board Recruitment ad appears on Defense.Link site. First public ad for Draft Boards in decades. Page scrubbed within a few days of being noticed by some media in early November. Spokesman says there is “no plan” to reinstate draft, which must be authorized by Congress. http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

October 16, 2003 – Donald Rumsfeld memo leaks, saying Iraq “will be a long, hard slog”. www.usatoday.com/news/washington/ executive/rumsfeld-memo.htm

Nov. 4, 2003 – NY Times article on Army Honor Guard Company B being sent to MidEast, revealing how thin troops are being stretched to cover the 2004-2005 rotation.
http://villagenews.weblogger.com/stories/storyReader$10007

Nov. 5, 2003 – Toronto Star article quotes Ned Lebow “This (draft board ad) is significant”, Lebow, a presidential scholar at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire and former professor of strategy at the National War College in Washington, adds, "What the department of defence is doing is creating the infrastructure to make the draft a viable option should the administration wish to go this route." http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1068073289288&call_pageid=968332188854

Nov. 5, 2003 – Guardian article on Draft Board ad. SSS spokesman Amon said 80% of 11,000 Draft Board slots are vacant. (2,000 local boards, over 8,000 empty seats) http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1077906,00.html

Nov. 12, 2003 – “If President Bush is re-elected, it is likely that he will reinstate the draft. The war on terrorism will not end in Iraq, but instead will proceed into countries like Syria and Iran," said Daniel Ellsberg, of Pentagon Papers fame. http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/11122003/news/60246.htm

November, 2003 – Selective Service 2004 “Performance Plan” summarizes how $28 million will be allocated in 2004 to reduce draft activation time from current 8 months to just 75 days. Nation-wide Readiness Exercises, testing the Draft Lottery and examination system, as well as gearing up the Medical Draft (3.4 million doctors and nurses, men and women age 20-44 are eligible). Ominously, the Alternative Service delivery system for Conscientious Objectors is readied for the first time in decades, with the SSS being funded to compile lists of available Alternative Service jobs for those who win non-military CO status. All systems will be pushed to reach 95% readiness during 2004.
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Nov. 23, 2003 – Boston Globe article: “Army Reserve battling an exodus
War is seen as drain on ranks. The US Army Reserve fell short of its reenlistment goals this fiscal year, underscoring Pentagon fears that the protracted conflict in Iraq could cause a crippling exodus from the armed services.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2003/11/23/army_reserve_battling_an_exodus/

Nov. 24, 2003 – NY Times: Army plans for 100,000 troops until 2006 in Iraq.
http://www.iht.com/articles/118775.html

Nov. 26, 2003 – Ron Paul (R-TX) says “Draft likely to be reinstated”. http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul144.html

December, 2003 - Draft Board Recruitment ad re-appears on the Selective Service Home Page with 2 new sentences stressing the ad has “NO connection” to Iraq. (scrubbed) http://www.sss.gov

Dec. 4, 2003 – Ted Rall predicts Bush will “have to bring back the draft.” Notes 8,000 empty Draft Board seats to be filled by Spring 2005. Wonders about a “February (2005) Surprise” if Bush is re-elected. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=742&e=7&u=/uclicktext/20031204/cm_ucru/acolddraft

December 22, 2003 – In an article entitled “Beware of Attempts to Revive Military Draft,” Newsday reports that “the Center on Conscience and War… executive director, J. E. McNeil… has heard of rumblings, from the Republican side of the aisle in Congress, about a draft after the election”. The opinion piece worries whether a revived draft “would give this war-without-end presidency an endless source of warm bodies to pursue its cowboy foreign policy.” Author Keeler also wonders about a “February (2005) Surprise”.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpkee223594883dec22,0,6735184.story?coll=ny-viewpoints-headlines

December, 2003 - The Selective Service Register magazine talks about the new Special Skill Draft, a top priority for Director Lewis Brodsky. Like the Medical Draft, the Special Skills Draft will induct men and women up to age 44 if they have needed DoD skills like computer expertise, engineering or they are a linguist. As with the health care draftees, no medical deferments are allowed except for total disability. Anyone with these skills will have to register with the SSS if Bush is re-elected and asks Congress for this. Moving quickly!
http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf (go to P. 6) – from sss,gov home page

December 29, 2003 - WP article: “Army Stops Many Soldiers From Quitting, Orders Extend Enlistments to Curtail Troop Shortages” 40,000 soldiers and Guard put on Stop-Loss. A “Draft Per Se” already exists! With the new stop-loss orders the Armed Forces actually go 20,000 past 480,000 active troops, to 500,000 active troops, the maximum before Congress steps in.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36979-2003Dec28.html

[lowry]

54. iran...syria...many vietnams...

the bush/cheney moron dictatorship will not lose. they'd never allow that to happen, but they don't even need to steal the election; just permit one more god-awful terror event, declare martial law, cancel the elections, seal up the borders, reinstate the draft, and march us all to hell.

so much has happened because of this god-awful regime that *no* paranoid nightmare is really paranoid anymore.

[redqueen]

56. Hi lowry

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[lowry]

59. thanks

hey, thanks redqueen! I figure I can rant with the best of them, but this draft talk really puts me over the top. Well, actually, the theft of the presidency in 2000 did that. pretty surreal years we're moving through.

what about canada? already too late?

[Carolina]

52. the rationale

likely being that if the kids of chickenhawks are affected, the war will end tomorrrow. But Press, Rangel and others on the left who espouse this better be careful what they wish for since, even if that objective held fast and the 'rah, rah war' white repukes had to risk life and limb, there are ALWAYS unintended consequences FOR EVERYONE!

Remember the independent counsel law used against Nixon, abused against Clinton...

Be careful what you wish for Bill and BTW, do you have a draft age kid??!!

[OneTwentyoNine]

58. You don't get what their trying to do....do you??

Maybe we're just a bit weary of poor people being used as fodder for millionaires. Poor and lower middle class sign up to protect our country from attack,not to be shipped off to die over fucking OIL and Halliburton PROFIT BUILDING.

All these rich ass flag wavers would be singing a different tune if their kid,grandkid ETC was being shipped out next Monday with the next stop in Iraq. These UNJUST wars would END if ALL 19 year olds were drafted.

Now do you understand where Press is coming from??

[lowry]

60. *all* 19 year olds?

the selective service system will *never* be fair. they'd like you to believe it, but it's just another dodge. No cheney/rummy/bush kid is ever going to go. the rest of these halliburton/unocal/bechtel wars will be fought by the children of the poor.

[OneTwentyoNine]

75. I know !! Exactly why Press brings it up...

To point out that if Chimp starts up the draft everyone goes or no one goes. If rich kids don't have to go then lets see why not,lets get it out in the papers and on TV as to why these fortunate sons don't have to serve. This time around it won't be like the VN days.

That screwing hasn't left the minds of how unjust that selection was. I hope Press and other Dems pound on this daily.

[Carni]

63. Unfortunately I think the wealthy would still skate

They'll just have to go a different direction...they'll pay big bucks to be deferred for medical reasons.

[Lori Price CLG]

71. Right, the wealthy will avoid the draft...

And, if the the children of Congress-people and/or the Bush twins somehow end up in the drafted pool, they will 'serve' in a special, secure area, with no chance of danger.
-Lori