Political Correctness Poll, Pt. 3

[bryant69]

Isn't this exciting?

I've noticed we have quite a few students here; how do you feel about the following statement.

While they are not a perfect mechanisms, campus rules against harrassment for racial, religious, ethnic or gender reasons serve to protect everybody's right to participate in academic discussion.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[stopthegop]

1. the problem is the definition of 'harrassment'...

for instance...is quoting Biblical injunctions against adultery 'harrassing' swingers?

[Solon]

9. Depends on how they preach.

When I was at college, I wore a pentacle, a symbol of my faith. I was followed, from class to class, by Evangelical Christians that wouldn't leave me alone. I complained to the school, and they got kicked off campus, they weren't even students. THAT is harassment.

[stopthegop]

11. I recall stories from Canada and/or Australia

of people being fined for 'hate speech' based on simply quoting the Bible...very dangerous territory

[Solon]

14. Not so dangerous as assumed...

First off I wasn't taling about hate speech, rather I was talking about harrassment, that is different. It doesn't have to be religious either, if someone doggedly pursues you for any reason, you have a right to tell them to shove it, and if they refuse, then report them. I did the same to an Army Recruiter too, and he wouldn't leave me alone either, got him kicked off campus too.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. The World's Biggest Non-Problem

I don't recall that anybody has been "disappeared", beaten, lynched, driven from their home, imprisoned, or made to flee the country over "Pee See".

Most of its modern elaboration is an hallucinatory dream wrenched from the infected right-wing brain. As with Blazquez' quote on politicalcomment's page:

In 1935, after Hitler came to power, the Frankfurt School moved to New York City, where they continued their work by translating Marxism from economic to cultural terms using Sigmund Freud's psychological conditioning mechanisms to get Americans to buy into Political Correctness. In 1941, they moved to California to spread their wings.

This is typical nonsense about the "Frankfurt School", which was, in reality, a Jewish adult-education school established in NYC, that later became the New School for Social Research. A lot of "libbrul perfessers" taught there.

Why was that? Because Hitler had tossed them out of Nazi Germany for politically incorrect "Jewish scholarship".

Has Blazquez no sense of irony?

I lived near the University of Pennsylvania when the "Water Buffalo Dude" was the BMOC. WaBu Dude became an overnight sensation for screaming insults at four black women. Being from Israel, he translated the insult he would otherwise utter in Hebrew: "Shut up, you Water Buffalo(s)!".

The buffalo gals filed a complaint. WaBu Dude replied that he had been diligently studying that Saturday night and the buffalo gals were harshing on his academic buzz. Or something. The Penn Judicial Inquiry Office called him to explain what happened, and it was spun as a New Inquisition, as the Jackboots of the New Gestapo, and a Midnight Visit from the KGB.

Water Buffalo Dude immediately became Big Man On Campus; the buffalo gals were harassed, threatened, chased by local police, and in general, had their lives made miserable.

Somebody, please, oppress me as sorely as Water Buffalo Dude was oppressed!

--bkl

[bryant69]

3. Yeah I remember that one

I agree with your assessment of the damage Political Correctness is doing to poor white males; but I am reviewing it precisely because it has seeped into our language and our thought processes. I've heard dozens of liberals say something like "Well i dont mean to be politically correct . . ." which is basically apologizing for being liberal.

And whenever we have to apologize for being liberals; well that's just a bad thing.

[minkyboodle]

7. agreed

I was in school in the early/mid 90's at the height of the "political correctness oppression" and I'll be damned if I ever saw any of it. I think people have seen PCU too many times and take it to be reality.
Scott

[Selwynn]

4. Once again, "PC" is a right wing myth - (read)

The derogatory comments about the "PC police" or other pejorative terms are basically right wing tactics to undermine a rightful sensitivity about how our language and rhetoric affects others.

It is absolutely right that we choose to care about what kinds of terms we use and how we use them, and that we ask intelligent questions about how our use of terms affects others. Very few people out there who raise questions about "inappropriate" language are trying to establish absolute rules and hand out citations to violators. Most folks, like many here at DU are simply stating that truth that in a world where we embrace, rather than shun away from, social, racial, and religious diversity we have an obligation to care about how our words affect others. It is a hallmark of compassionate conviction and progressive ideology to strive to promote the most equitable and inclusive society possible, and part of that process is understanding the way language has been used as a hurtful weapon in the past and strive not to repeat such hurtful patterns in the future.

Our self-proclaimed "right" to say whatever we want really ought to be tempered with a healthy does of concern of the sustaining and maintaining of healthy, empowering, esteeming relationships with others. And in order to do that, sometimes we have to ask significant questions about the words we use and the assumptions we make. Just the other day I didn't take a thread on the term "redneck" seriously enough, because here in my context most of those I stand in relationship to use the term for themselves, and are not offended by it. But many other people are and I quickly found myself on the defensive for acting like its not a big deal. It is not a big deal in my context - but that's just the thing, its all about context, and therefore we shouldn't become indignant when we are called on to think about the most appropriate ways to manifest a spirit of inclusiveness and acceptance in society.

The right frequently displays a strong disdain toward any call to responsibility. The cheapen and diminish the seriousness of thinking about the quality of our words by labeling anyone concerned with such issues as "politically correctness Nazis" or some other kind of label. In truth, there is no such thing as "political correctness" other than what the right wing means by it - which is that our concern over the must just and inclusive kinds of language is irrelevant, and only an political construction to be laughed at, mocked and ridiculed.

We should strive to embrace a doctrine of "do no harm" with our words - that would require us to look at different situations contextually and make informed rational relational decisions about the most responsible, affirming, inclusive and empowering way to speak. It is hard to make absolute rules (i.e, saying that in all contexts x word is wrong), however sometimes in group situations it is important to establish an agreed upon standard that reflects needs as best it can and stick to it. A perfect example of this was the recent discussion about a certain term that I won't bother to mention, wherein the administrators asked important questions in trying to determine what policy would be most appropriate for such a large group. It isn't easy, but it is something that should concern us, whether the right wing scoffs and calls it "political correctness" or not.

Sel

[stopthegop]

5. it's a myth until someone says

something that is objectively true, but uncomfortable ...on topics such as immigration, race, religion..any number of things...then the speaker is lambasted...

when someone is hassled on the job (as in DC) for correctly using the word 'niggardly'...that's sensitivity run amok (another suspect term)...

[bryant69]

6. That was a bizarre controversy

But what if a college professer is denied tenure for expressing too liberal a view? Isn't that more or less the same thign? But you dont' see three page articles when that happens.

Bryant

[stopthegop]

10. no...but I don't think it happens often...

the academy is generally liberal outside of hard sciences...the DC thing was also a gov't position, so it got more attention, and it sorta/kinda involved a particularly invidious word...

[Solon]

17. If that is true then Whites shouldn't be upset if Blacks use words...

like "Cracker" or "Honky". You want to talk about sensitivity, I got yelled at by a friend for using the word Cracker as part of a self-depreciating joke. We are both white for crying out loud. Also how many people here get offended by "Redneck" or "Poor White Trash", or even "Hillbilly".

ON EDIT: Referrring to the first part of your post, I have no clue as to what you are talking about as far as "objective" truths, there is no such thing. Immagration is not a PC issue, if it was then I wouldn't here people every day talking about "those damned furriners" taking their jobs, etc. If you are talking about the critizism of books like "The Bell Curve", that was bad research and science, period.

[stopthegop]

20. if you think there are no objective truths..

we have no reason to talk..have a good day

on edit: an objective truth...people of African ancestry do very well in sprinting events in the Olympics...look at the lineups...saying this makes some people uncomfortable

[Selwynn]

22. That's not an objective truth

Not all people of african ancestry do very well in sprinting events in the Olympics.

[Solon]

8. I am of the opinion that people who complain

about PC are those who wish that they could say N****r again in polite society.

[noiretextatique]

16. that's pretty much the bottom line

all the complaints about "pc" are little more than whining about the loss of the privilege of acting like an asshole.

[Solon]

19. Not to mention the true PC...

that is Conservative Correctness, it is easy to test, especially on the streets, all our history books are written with it in mind. Just bring up any uncomfortable time in our past, and get slammed down by a good 70% of the country for you "Hating" it. America: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, my ass! Another example is me, I am not a patriot, and I am condemned for it, and would dare not say it in public for fear of a "Lynch" mob.

[Redleg]

12. No one should be harassed on campus.

We should be able to speak our minds without harassing others. I guess it goes to what the term harassment means. I would suggest a definition similar to that in federal statutes regarding the promotion of a hostile environment.

[sendero]

13. I totally reject...

.... the idea that PC and "harassment" have anything to do with each other. They are at best tangentially related.

[slksln]

18. the relation comes from

the idea that following "PC" helps to create a less hostile environment.

I also think that this is largely bullshit. If people came out and asked more open-minded questions to help understand each other better, and others came out and said, "hey, you know what? that hurt" when someone said something they took to be offensive, then the world wouldn't need things like PC police, be they myth or reality.

I am at university, and way too many people act like high school students with their gossip and talking behind each others' backs and trying to make other people mad for the fun of it. I just don't understand.

[bryant69]

23. I used the term Harassment because

that was what was used in a case I reviewed at my website; the issue is speech codes; and the argument from the conservative side was that these harassment codes were nothing more than speech codes with a different name.

Bryant

[Dogmudgeon]

15. My own "policy" about PC

I don't like censoring what I say, and I don't like other people censoring what they say, either. Politeness and civility aside, when people are afraid to speak their minds, democracy suffers violence.

On the other hand, I am a very sensitive individual, and there is no end to the list of things that annoy, provoke, or even offended me.

What do I do about it?

I put up with it. I also complain, confront, and (verbally) fight if necessary. And I expect anyone else to do the same to me over their own values.

I've said this to several people who I've offended, most often young women I've called girls -- "You have the absolute right to get offended and to tell me off, but so do I!"

It's not a defensive thing, and it usually led to very productive conversations. I really do grant anyone the right to disagree with me, even to take offense at what I say. I don't go around looking to offend people, but it's bound to happen to everyone at some point.

The real offense is trying to control communication. Sure, there are a few "necessary evil" exceptions, but talking about 19-year-old "girls" or "niggardly" tightwads doesn't compare to selling nuclear data or trafficking in blackmail.

As for schools' "speech codes", most of them are gone, and they were far from universal in any case. By the way, Neo-Cons are fond of citing private property as justification for every sort of anti-democratic evil -- why are private colleges so different for having anti-hate speech codes? Compare and contrast to Liberty (sic) University and other "Christian" colleges' behavioral codes.

It's still legal to use the word n*gg*r. But in the realm of civility, you'd better have a good reason to.

--bkl

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. I voted neutral because

without knowing what the specific rules and enforcement mechanisms are, I don't feel like I have enough information.