Should Kerry Triangulate

[TimMooring]

That's what he's rather obvously doing now, probably on the advice of the DLC. How much of a concern is it for people on the left?

Before he locked in the nomination I thought the party could win with an anti-war ticket. thats what I wanted to happen. But the point seems moot now.

My view is that triangulation, Bill Clinton style, may be seen as equivocation in this election and actually damage prospects for the ticket. A better approach may be in the selection of a running mate, i.e. someone like Wes Clark who would garner votes from the center/center right. This would take some of the pressure off Kerry to counter his perceived liberal bias.

Bill Clinton honed triangulation to a fine art and made a lot of progress promoting the democratic agenda because of it.

bush stole the technique in 2000 and used it to great effect (compassionate conservatism) but his version was more akin to lying. He used it to get elected and then turned his back on everthing he had said to attract centrist voters.

Thoughts?

[DAGDA56]

1. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by triangulation...but I am...

...pretty sure B* would mispronounciate it...

[TimMooring]

2. Honing your message

The technique, as I understand it, involves fine tuning your message to appeal to a larger base of voters - usually based on astute use of polling data.

[DAGDA56]

3. I see...I guess I was thrown by thinking it had something to do...

...with 3 parts, or approaching from 3 different angles at the same time.

[TimMooring]

5. That's basicly it

Your position, the position to your left and that on your right. Give a little and take a little. The problem that I see is that it's been pretty much "outed" and may not be as effective as it was in 92 and 96 (2000 too if you count bushes extreme version as triangulation)

[TimMooring]

7. Did you say something? (nt)

[kentuck]

4. No. I think he is more apt to gesticulate and matriculate....

and calibrate... :)

[BeatleBoot]

6. Maybe he should just be a Democrat

and then he'll win just like we won the last three presidential elections...

Sounds good to me.

[TimMooring]

8. We didn't win the last three elections

At least not to the point that Gore is in the WH.

[BeatleBoot]

12. Nope. We won.

Bush had to initiate a lawsuit to stop the re-count.

We lost the electoral college by 537 votes or so (in Florida popular votes) due to the lawsuit, Bush v. Gore. We won the popular vote.

Gore wasn't inaugurated, but the News Consortium audit clearly states that we won the election.

But anyways, yes we won the last three elections.

[TimMooring]

19. Doesn't matter - Our guy is not in the WH (nt)

[BeatleBoot]

20. Who is "your guy"

Just wondering.

[TimMooring]

21. jeez guy - Gore - was there another election in 2000?

[BillZBubb]

9. He is definitely Triangulating now, but...

That's pretty much standard operating procedure once someone gets a nomination. Run to the base while getting the nomination, then move quickly to the center politically after it's locked up.

I don't like it. I would love to have the Democrats come out swinging and staking a liberal flag in the ground for a change. But, I'm ABB to the core, so I'll vote for Kerry no matter what.

[TimMooring]

10. Yes I know, me too - that's why in a way we don't count.

I like the running mate solution better.

[leyton]

11. Not yet, perhaps.

A good bit of politics will go a long way, but right now it's too early to start moving around. There's no telling what the outcome of the war will be (okay, specifics-wise) and what the political fallout from the 9/11 Commission will be and how the economy will be doing in August. While Kerry might want to try to be in position to scoop up the stream of Republicans that are leaving the Bush camp, he might also just want to wait till August, because then perhaps no triangulation will be needed at all.

[TimMooring]

13. Yes, I agree

But that's evidently not the advice he's getting from his advisers. The reason I like the running mate alternative is that it's not the same kind of compromise - and as I said it may not have the desired effect in this election. I know he's getting some bad advice.

[greendog]

14. a description of triangulation.....

This is from a right winger David Frum of the Weekly Standard, writing about Bill Clinton in 1999:

"Since 1994, Clinton has offered the Democratic Party a devilish bargain: Accept and defend policies you hate (welfare reform, the Defense of Marriage Act), condone and excuse crimes (perjury, campaign abuses)and I'll deliver you the executive branch of government...Again since 1994, Clinton has survived and even thrived by deftly balancing between right and left. He has assuaged the left by continually proposing bold new programs--the expansion of Medicare to 55 year-olds, a national day-care program, the reversal of welfare reform, the hooking up to the internet of every classroom, and now the socialization of the means of production via Social Security. And he has placated the right by dropping every one of these programs as soon as he proposed it. Clinton makes speeches, Rubin and Greenspan make policy; the Left gets words, the Right gets deeds; and everybody is content."

I'd suggest that if President Kerry tries this it'll be the end of the Democratic Party.

[BeatleBoot]

16. Didn't Bush Fire David Frum as a speech writer?

Am I wrong, but wasn't he the idiot who coined the phrase "axis of evil" ?

[greendog]

23. That's possible....

....I don't normally follow the right-wing writers. This was just a random quote I found that seemed to sum up "triangulation".

[TimMooring]

17. That's my fear as well

But it's not if he does it. he's doing it now. I'm afraid that's the entirety of his advisers thinking. Remember who's running the party right now and what the current thinking is at DLC.

[greendog]

22. I'll pretty much give him a pass till after the election.....

....there's nothing we can do about it now....he's the nominee. But once he's the President he'd better start acting like a Democrat. This will be our chance to "really" see if there's a difference between the parties.

Without the tech boom, without a charismatic President, and with an ugly war going on.

If we discover that our choice is limited to two corporate/imperialist parties I suspect one of those parties won't survive.

[TimMooring]

24. We'll still be faced with moving an agenda forward

And right now it's difficult to call what will happen in the house or senate. My guess is that it'll still be a very narrow majority - reflecting the hardened position of the electorate. however, that may change depending on how badly things go in Iraq and how the economy performs.

[greendog]

25. If we have a majority...

...we'd better move forward, if we only manage to gain the White House Kerry needs to dig his heels in and not lose ground unnecessarily.

Personally, I don't see DLC policies doing much to create good jobs. Without a dramatic change of direction the media will continue to report the export of good jobs.....even if the economy begins to create a bunch of McJobs. The middle class has been losing ground since the 70's and I don't think they'll be willing to sit still if they lose even more ground.

With the war, Kerry's proposal to send more troops might be too little too late. The Iraqis are tired of occupation and a larger occupation isn't likely to improve their attitudes.

[TimMooring]

26. I ever so totally agree. Especially your last point

BTW: Your art is very appealing. what kind of tools do your use?

[greendog]

27. Thanks

I use acrylic paint on canvas or Masonite. I usually work from my own photos as a starting point but the finished painting never looks like the original photo. I try to simplify the composition and exaggerate the colors.

Also, I often use parts of more than one photo to create the new composition. For instance, the painting in my sig uses parts of three different photos. The background is from a very tiny (3/4" sq) section of one photo. The tree comes from another photo and the ground on which the tree sits is from a third photo.

I shot all three photos in Canyonlands National Park two years ago.

[On the Road]

15. Number One -- Kerry Has to Stick with His Convictions

Adopting a bunch of insincere positions is not going to work. That still leaves a lot of room for political maneuvering.

Kerry might adopt some individual crossover positions or do certain things to appeal to certain groups of independents and Republicans. I think it's smart for him to pound the balanced budget issue. I think taking some photos on a hunting trip might be good, or otherwise showing that's he comfortable with firearms.

But as far as Iraq goes, Kerry actually boxed himself in by having played both sides of the fence. Adopting a strong antiwar stance now would seem insincere and opportunistic. Kerry should actually de-emphasize this issue and let others take the shots.

[TimMooring]

18. This may work...

But mitigating against it is the hardened positions on the left and right. It'll be like chipping at granite.

I like the running mate solution. Wes Clark specifically.