I'm starting to understand Bush's appeal

[UnityDem]

In wake of the response to the last news conf (especially the q&a part), I now am starting to get it.
Many Americans simply do not want an intelligent, thoughtful Prez.
What many of us see as an inability to think on his feet and to form cogent responses is met with shock and awe by those who love Bush.
The shock, however, is that we don't love his responses.
You see, many Americans love that Bush sounds like them.
They don't want a President who "seems smarter" than them.
They want a President who they'd love to "have a beer" with rather than one that they'd love to have "a conversation" with.
This is really starting to worry me about Kerry. Like Gore, Kerry is so much smarter than Bush that it will possibly cost Kerry the election. He will really have to dumb himself down. This is especially true during the debates. Most Americans dislike "the smartest guy in the class" and love the class clown.

This whole discussion does not take into account those who also share Bush's ideology and the religious right who believe that God is on his side. I'm talking about the vast unwashed who pays little attention to politics and give issues little thought. They will simply vote for the more "likeable" guy. I hope and pray that Kerry and his handlers can find a way to make him that guy. Is that possible?

[molly]

1. Obviously, from the polls, people are getting smarter

[the Kelly Gang]

2. it's true..half the people are frightened of intelligence

[rogerashton]

3. We need a president who is smarter than Osama bin Laden

and Osama is WAY smarter than *. Somehow, we need to get that across to the kind of folks who don't want to vote for anybody who thinks he is smarter than they are (especially if he really is).

[Lindsay]

5. We need the major networks to wise up

and tell people the truth about this (mal)administration.

At least as I understand it, that's where the majority of people get their news. As long as they cover up the lies and the errors, how will people know?

Of course, we've all got to do our share as well...spread the facts, get out the vote, etc.

But my greatest hope is that the network news departments will realize how truly dangerous BushCo is to the world, and say so.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. I think you just stumbled upon a kick-ass campaign slogan.

Please send it to the Kerry campaign!

[StayOutTheBushes]

29. Well thought out response.

.

[Ishoutandscream]

4. You nailed the "class clown" & "smartest kid" analogy

That is exactly what it is. With Kerry, it will be "look, he's just showing off his brain power." And with Dubya, "Ah, George's boy is at it again. He's funny as hell and not high 'follutin' like Kerry. He sure is a good ol' boy!"

I'm a Texan, and speaking from experience. Better to be a lazy good ol' boy than an intelligent, thoughtful person.

[NMDemDist2]

6. Maybe--- but Kerry has better hair so it should even out eom

[meti57b]

7. by definition, half of the populaton is dumber than the other half.

[Az]

8. Bush is packaged certainty

This is the primary split between the sides in the ongoing culture war in this nation.

On the right there is a multilayered system. On the bottom you have the people who want a strong seeming leader. Someone that speaks with conviction. Someone that speaks their truth. Someone that does not have to ponder right and wrong but rather knows right and wrong. Meanwhile on top is the economic forces that want Government disengaged from regulating their attempts to increase their power. They want a figure head president that responds to their directions.

Thus the right calls for a puppet that will appear to speak to the nonecomic convictions of the people. But will remain pliabe to their economic directions. And by spinning the notion that the people are dependent on the corporations for their survival they can tie the advance of their power to the apparent health of the society.

On the left we crave people who can discern a path through an uncertain future. We want people able to see new ideas and unravel new problems. We want someone that can look at the old system and figure out how to fix it or realize that it is time to move on to something new. We tolerate uncertainty because we understand that in this complex society certainty is often the hallmark of ignorance. Some of the questions this society faces are not so easily unraveled.

Thus the right and the left see things very differently. The right sees the world in stark contrasts. Right and wrong. Good and evil. The left meanwhile sees things in much more complex shades. We see the greys and all the inbetween. We see a society in flux that needs to be guided to a new destination. The right sees a society wavering off the track that needs to be dragged back to a fixed course.

[On the Road]

9. For Some Reason, Peope Like to be Talked Down To

at least a lot of churchgoers seem to. Church services are usually conducted at about a 6th-grade level. The more simplistic the sermon, the more the minister's tone tends to drip with condescension. And people seem to love it! I really don't understand this phenomemon. Maybe people feel more secure if they're treated like children.

Bush did the same thing thing in the press conference when he kept justifying his Iraq policy. He would start off by saying "You see..." in the most condescending tone, and then come up with a ludicrous explanation involving good, evil, and standing firm.

It's actually an effective debating trick. It's difficult to nail someone down who refuses to use language that would enable a real discussion.

[coltman]

15. the "you see " ......

in his statements are his (their) belief that what they are saying is fact and there is no other way of looking at it and if you dare , then you are against everything this country stands for.

[sendero]

10. America...

... has always had a strong anti-intellectual streak.

But that doesn't mean they want a moron in charge. I think Americans have thought that while the president might not be "intelligent", he had "common sense".

I think the notion that he has "common sense" is rapidly evaporating, and it will be hard to get back.

[coltman]

16. the funny thing about common sense ........

is it's not very common at all.

[coltman]

11. UnityDem ....

factor into this bible belt red states/the south will rise again,and the dumbing down of america to promote their christian conservative morals or values.In my opinion they are neither moral nor valuable.They are tho being used by the texas political machine to subvert democratic electoral process so vital to freedom and democray.Look what happens when the class clown is in charge: Edi Amin, Pol Pot, Pappa Doc, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Rasputin, Mussoulini, need I go on? Bush??????????????????? Sure is starting out that way.............

[skooooo]

13. Rasputin got a bad wrap...

...and shouldn't be included in your list!!

[coltman]

18. curious...

why not Rasputin, I'm not aware of this.That may be why I didn"t include Atilla the Hun.

[skooooo]

20. What exactly makes you think he was "evil"???

Politically manipulative, maybe, but anyone close to the Tsar had to be. And it's not like he killed anyone.

[coltman]

21. correct me if I'm wrong....

but wasn't it because of his political manipulations that caused a lot of "common folks" to die?

[skooooo]

23. Hmmm...that doesn't ring a bell...

....I've read a lot of books about him, and don't remember anything like that -- unless my memory's gotten fuzzy. But, if you have some details, let me know. Mostly he spent his time in fornication and sucking up to the Tsar & Tsar family.

What's really interesting his his early history, imo. His religious sect saw sex as a means to liberation -- so the church services were mighty intersting.

:crazy:

[coltman]

24. I'm not sure either...

thats why I ask. Gonna have to do some reading myself. This is a great example of verify - verify - verify.

[skooooo]

26. I think he actually did more to help the peasants..

than not. After all, he was the only one from a poor background allowed around the Tsar. The tsar should have listened to Rasputin more. He warned against involvement into WWI. The whole time period for Russia is so tragic. Nicholas was trying to educate the poor. Once they started understanding things more, they got REALLLY impatient and angry overthrew the tsar. I think if they would have stuck it out a little, Nicholas was really open to changing the way government worked.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

45. Bush* appeals to those who think Rasputin is a Gatorade flavor...n/t

[terisel]

12. Likability decreasing as criterion

I think likability is decreasing as a vote factor as people ponder their own survivability.

However I do think Republicans had mastered the ability to appeal to the emotions of voters rather than the intellect, and to what they considered the short attention span of the American people.

Karen Hughes had said as much about attention span in the early days of the Bush regime when she talked about how the American people appreciated Bush because were busy-presumably too busy to be bothered thinking about politics or noticing that their country was being looted.

People are paying more attention now-using the National Guard for Iraq was a big mistake because it hits communities all over the US. Screwing up the economy before the end of Bush's term was a big mistake-too many people worried about financial stability.

If Tip O'Neill was right about all politics being local, it is what is happening in ones own community that makes people take notice.

If Bush had not screwed up so massively in Iraq, people would not be taking much notice of foreign policy today-but now Iraq is like seeing ants crawl across rat droppings on the grungy frosting atop a cake you purchased before noticing the long-past expiration date.

The current situation: The "American People" are standing in their kitchens knife in hand and regarding, with growing alarm, the cake they were about to cut. The though going through millions of minds right now is: how do I get this disgusting, filthy mess out of my house without touching it again.

[hexola]

14. Your contempt for fellow Americans will only hasten our defeat...

[elfwitch]

36. I don't think it is contempt...

I think it is bitter disappointment. Many of us walk around painfully disappointed in the others who are so easily fooled and so easily lead to their own slaughter. At a certain point you almost can't blame them for being indifferent to their own downfall.

As the public education system declines, as mindless entertainment gains ground, as corporate feudalism spreads, all people can do is try their best not to be the nail that sticks up only to be hammered down hard.

If you are poor and hopeless, all yo want is to just get to the next day. That is why Christianity has such a hold on many of those that it is not in the best interest of. Christianity promises paradise in the hereafter. It tells them "Sure you life is miserable and hopeless but if you give all your love to Jesus, he will make you a king in heaven." They endure misery for the promise of happiness once they are dead. T

hey are taught to wait for their eternal reward instead of trying to make this life as good as possible. A perfect example of this appears in the huge number of African slaves that became Christians during their servitude. They were ripped from their homes and made to endure horrible treatment. Christianity gave them hope. It told them that all they had to do was believe and their afterlife would be better. The slave masters used this as one tool to squash potential uprisings.

The Bush junta uses these methods against the masses. They blather on about their love of Jesus. They blather on about patriotism (the religion of the state). They blather on about myths of trickle down economics. Their purpose is to convince the helpless and the hopeless that something better is just around the bend.

That is why were are bitterly disappointed. We see what they are doing. We know that we are being sold a bill of rotten goods. We know that something better is not waiting around the bend. We know that things are only going to get worse. We also know that the disinterested masses do not have the energy or the gumption to find out what we know because they are just trying to make it from one day to the next.

So the feeling is not really contempt. At most it is indignant pity. We are sad for those who cannot save themselves.

[underpants]

17. 'Sir there isn't an intelligent man or woman who won't vote for you"

"That's fine ma'am but I need a MAJORITY'-Adlai Stvenson

I think W appeals to all but the smart kid in high school. Anyone who was ever made to feel inferior mentally take comfort in one of them being in charge. It is a shame that that happens in schools but that is how it is and always will be.

[Poiuyt]

32. Adlai Stevenson

Adlai didn't have broad appeal because he was TOO smart, an egghead.

On the other hand. People choose their physician based upon the premise that he/she is smarter than they are. In fact, people want a doctor who has an all-knowing, god-like aura. I would think choosing the president would be the same, but apparently not.

[glarius]

22. If he's STILL fooling the people.....I'm really scared!

What puzzles me is why anyone finds him "likeable" or congenial....He comes across to me, and always has, as a simpering, overbearing manipulator...Don't these people who find him so attractive notice how quickly he turns ugly when someone asks him a question he doesn't want to answer?....As for his "Christian values", the only evidence of that is his constant references to God or the Almighty in his public utterances.....His actions are anything but Christian...A true Christian would not launch an unwarranted war on the innocent Iraqi people. And what's really scary is that he shows no remorse about the thousands of Iraqis who have died!...He only mentions the Americans who've died by saying how "brave they were to die to make America safe!"....He is the most frightening leader in United States history....

[ComerPerro]

25. Bush is hardly the "class clown". He is the burnout

Of course, this doesn't necessarily fit. Most burnouts are intelligent people full of potential who tragically screw it up with drugs and throw opportunities away.

Bush is just a stupid moron who really likes cocaine and has a problem with alcohol abuse.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. It's like what Studs Terkel said about Ronald Reagan:

"He made it okay to be stupid."

I recall when Reagan was speaking at the welcome banquet for the president of Mexico, and he tried to use the Spanish expression "Mi casa es su casa" ("My house is your house"), but it came out as "Mee kassa ess soo kassa."

So this is a guy who can't pronounce Spanish, one of the easiest languages in the world to pronounce, but I bet there were millions out there who saw that news clip and thought: 1) "I was never any good at Spanish either," and 2) "He's a real American, because he's awkward with foreign languages."

The trick for Dem politicians is to be intelligent and non-intimidating at the same time. It's not an easy combination to pull off.

[Jade Fox]

31. add to that the Rush Limbaughs et al.....

whose message to the ignorant and bigoted is that they are
actually SMARTER than those who are thoughtful and informed,
thus taking away any incentive they might have to challenge
themselves.

[bloom]

28. It's the TV effect

I still have hope that a more intelligent person will be able to win votes.

[watercolors]

30. I think the American people

are alot smarter than you think. Yes they tune him out, because they understand he is a dumb ass.

[FlaGranny]

33. I have always felt the most

secure when I believed the president was smarter than I am. I can't imagine why anyone would feel differently. Maybe its "if HE can be president, then so can I" mentality. Sort of like the "if he can get rich, so can I" mentality.

[yellowcanine]

34. "Class Clown" won't work as incumbent president

Also remember that the "class clown" often ended up being intensively disliked when the other students got tired of his attention grabbing ways that distracted from the more serious tasks at hand.

[Jade Fox]

40. good point n/t

[RandomKoolzip]

35. If that's the criteria for voting in THE LEADER OF THE FREE FUCKIN WORLD

Then, my GOD, the American people need their collective heads examined.

Jesus, when you go to the doctor, don't you want the doctor to be smarter than you? Don't you want the pilot on your plane to behave with dignity, intelligence and bearing? THIS IS THE MAN WHO'S GOING TO LEAD THE ONLY WORLD SUPERPOWER and our criteria is whether he's got "beer buddy" appeal or not?!?!?!

Maybe it's time we all just abandoned politics and took up badminton. This is horrifically sad. Just sad sad sad......

Maybe it's time we divided the nation into the smart and dumb camps, and the liberals can elect a smart candidate to lead them, and the conservatives can worship their village idiot boy-king.

I can't believe how fucking stupid some people are sometimes. I don't know why I'm so shocked, but everytime I feel America has hit rock bottom, its people let it be known that they can still astonish.

[Cocoa]

37. that only worked when people weren't paying attention

Now, it's obvious to almost everyone how high the stakes are, people will take the decision seriously.

At least two whore pundits, David Brooks and Fred Barnes, tried excusing Bush's embarrassing performance at the press conf. by saying he was speaking directly to the morons, and ignoring the "elites." I think there aren't as many morons as these guys hope there are.

[cmf]

38. Americans love a moron

But I think that the tide is starting to shift. I know a couple of Republicans who previously loved Bush because he seemed "down to earth" and a "genuinely nice guy". But after the performance Tuesday, their feelings were starting to change. Instead of seeing him as that lovable nice guy, they saw a guy who refused to answer any valid question. One Republican I know actually started yelling at the TV. I think the more that he evades answering the questions about 9/11 and Iraq, the more admirers he will lose. Yes, there are the morons who still love *, and feel that the evil liberal press is out to get him, but I think that his base of admirers is slowly eroding.

[West Coast Democrat]

39. *'s "Likability" Numbers are plummeting as low as his approval

ratings....that's what happens when you run dirty attack ads 24/7.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. I actually read this rationalization on another message board

in 2000:

"Bush knows that he's not very bright, so he'll surround hiimself with capable advisors. Gore is intellectually arrogant, and he'll try to make all the decisions himself."

Sigh!

[FlaGranny]

42. I remember a nearly identical post on a board I used to visit and

the post was from an otherwise intelligent woman.

It turned out that Bush is not very bright and surround himself with also not very bright advisors. Gore is bright and would have surrounded himself with equal bright advisors.

:shrug: I can't comprehend the logic of having a not very bright president.

[progressivebydesign]

43. Clinton was brilliant and MUCH more supported than Bush..

Explain that. The truth is, that Bush is the only dog the GOP has in the race.. the only one. Who would a staunch republican support right now? The biggest issue is that we are at such a strong divide right now, between the left and right. ALmost a political civil war of sorts... I don't think that Bush is as wildly popular (outside the zomboid born-again right-wingers), as you'd think. They are just.. as usual.. the vocal minority.

p.s. I DO think that Rove is brilliant in making Bush look like some sort of cowboy... rather than the green-golf-pants-wearing eastern seaboard blueblood he is!

[Blue_Tires]

44. word for word

i posted almost exactly the same sentiments last year after covering one of his speeches last year at a local elementary school

[UnityDem]

47. Great minds

This is the type of thing that I hear from people that are not politically engaged.
"He's such a nice man." "He just seems like he'd be somebody I'd really like."
Unfortunately, that's who they vote for. Sigh!
Let's just hope that there's more of US (that actually vote in Nov.) than of them this time. Kerry On, my fellow dems!

[Corgigal]

46. I posted this on another thread

but it works here also. I think they like "he's like me" ordinary kind of guy. They don't want to become President but they believe it's a comfort that a person "like them" is our leader. Of course they like to forget that this guy that is "like them" can destroy the entire human race. I bet if they went to a surgeon and if he talked to them like President Bush does at his Press conferences they would run for their lives.