how does religious zealotry effect our current 'leaders'?

[mopaul]

of course w makes a great show of his religion, EXACTLY as Christ says NOT to do. 'be not like the Hypocrites, who make a great show of their piety to be seen by men'. in other words, keep your religion to yourself, it's realer that way.

many now suspect that bush has armageddon and revalations on his mind. and that he is fullfilling the horrid prophecies in the last chapter of the bible. the stuff dealing with the 'end times'.

i suspect however, that he is not even slightly religious. i could be wrong, have been before, but i see his so called piousness as totally phony. and in the revalations prophecy, it clearly warns of the anti-christ, who will appear as a religiously inspired leader of men, but who is really the beast.

it's rumored that condi is deeply religious. i don't think rummy worships anyone but beelzebub, cheney worships mana and death. but what really blows my mind is the blind allegience that conservative christians have toward bush. call after call into c-span praises bush because he is a 'godly man', and the 'lord is behind him', etc.

and more importantly, IF there are hardcore zealots running the world, how much danger are we truly in?

[gottaB]

1. Romans 13:1

"Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God."


Look where I found that:

http://www.prayforgeorgewbush.com

Honestly, I think the guy is a total fundy, totally self-righteous, totally devout. There are one or two good things that come from that, but on balance, be very afraid.

[seabeyond]

2. 1988 at a press conference

with a wife and two daughters, bush asked by reporter

what do you and father talk about when you dont talk politics

bush replies.................pussy

this is a small thing, such a small thing, but.........it is a huge thing that talks his character and christianity. i know not a man with respect to wife, to female a connection to daughter, a love of his religion that would mouth something like that

every step of the way, bush speaks bible but behavior contradicts.

this isnt a hard one

[donco6]

38. I can't imagine talking about that with my dad.

That's just creepy on top of sexist.

[sybylla]

3. "As long as he's a good Christian, that's all that matters to me."

That came from my son's teacher when the three kids in the class (my son being one)were criticizing Bush during class. My first thought was that the Germans thought Hitler was a good Christian. Mein Gott, how a teacher can be part of an educational system and at the same time such an advocate of ignorance can only be the product of religion.

[seabeyond]

4. i have been waiting for a christian

to say this to me. being it is your sons teacher, you have a right to challenge. have you talked to her or do you plan on it. would love to hear the result. or are you just leaving it alone.

[sybylla]

7. The kids took care of it so I didn't have to.

This class is an online AP Calculus class with three students. She isn't really a teacher but a Gifted and Talented Administrator who was monitoring the period set aside for the students to work. All three students were talking about Bush one day as they worked on their assignment, all three in agreement that he is essentially a lying thief. I don't remember what they were talking about specifically but she evidently couldn't stand it any longer and had to add her two cents. The three students shot right back with evidence for their statements and she said nothing more.

I was very proud of my son and thrilled to hear that the other two students felt the same way about the pResident.

[seabeyond]

16. oh cool, cool, cool

that does my heart good. they are older and smart good for them. my mind is more the youngr age. my son is in the third grade, christian school.........adn very politically active already, lol lol. i am wanting him to be brave enough to express. i talked to teacher about a month ago, and said he was fearful of going to principle if he opposed what she said. and made it clear he doesnt believe the same as the mass group, and she isnt there to condition him, just as i insist he doesnt take my word, but read and listen and decide for self.

i am leaving things open to see what is up

thanks for sharing your experience. i appreciate it

[sybylla]

19. Good luck with your 3rd grader

My kids have always been political loud-mouths too. Fortunately I never had any trouble with teachers over it. The majority appreciated the fact that they were so informed at a young age and they always get high marks from their social studies teachers, even if they don't always agree.

[Mithridates]

6. Why most Americans distrust the left...

... and why Kerry is just breaking even in the polls, why he has to make loud "centrist" noises is precisely that smart alecky, snide hatred of religion that you just exhibited and that pervades the left.

My first thought was that the Germans thought Hitler was a good Christian. Mein Gott, how a teacher can be part of an educational system and at the same time such an advocate of ignorance can only be the product of religion.

On economic issues, most Americans want an anti-offshoring, pro healthcare, pro education policy. But they don't want snotty cultural elite secularist types mocking their values and using the machinery of the state to stamp out any public expressions of religion wherever and whenever possible. And if the American people don't trust your values, they don't trust you to make sound decisions.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithridates]

14. Whine if you like..

But can anyone honestly say that were it not for the economy Bush would not be romping to a routine reelection for the same reasons that the right has been consistently trashing the left for the last generation ?

Values. Most Americans do not trust bicoastal secularist values and the hatred of religion that pervades the left.

For a Republican to lose, he really, really has to work hard at it. He really, really, has to screw up massively and then he only barely loses. One would think that with an economy in this state that Kerry would be at least 10 points ahead but he is swapping leads with Bush on a weekly basis and often within the statistical margin of error. Why ? Because most Americans distrust Kerry's bicoastal cultural elite values. Because most Americans are more comfortable with the openly religous moral values of the Bush White House than with those of bicoastal secular types.

I tend to believe that on economics, Bush will lose this election. Barely. But what of 2008 ? A GOP that focused on a culturally populist faith drenched message combined with an economically populist anti-outsourcing message could dominate American politics indefinitely. And is most potent when combined with the most consistent demographic trend of the last generation. The steady flow of population and wealth from secular regions to religious regions of the country primarily for cost and quality of life reasons.

[xchrom]

17. the same god fearing folk that seem

to molest children with alarming regularity, that wind up in court rooms having hi-jacked the congregations money?.
if you think for a moment that the left wing is going to let that crew of cave dwellers take this country back to a nineteenth century revival tent -- then you have another thing coming.
it ain't happenin -- and you can pretend and delude your self that this is whining -- but when the christian right has it's ass delivered to them on a collection plate perhaps they will cool their apocalyptic heels for a while and learn to share the country instead of acting like twisted narcissistic children.

[Mithridates]

29. You've missed it as badly as Hollywood did

if you think for a moment that the left wing is going to let that crew of cave dwellers take this country back to a nineteenth century revival tent -- then you have another thing coming.

For some time now Americans have been voting overwhelmingly for a return to more faith based cultural values. Through the religious right which is the single strongest political force in American politics. With their moving vans as they relocate their families and businesses to safer, cheaper, cleaner parts of the country (and are such because they are regions where it is normal for most people to attend church regularly). With their dollars as they made "The Passion" the 8th highest grossing movie of all time in the space of six weeks, to the helpless fury of secular elites and the stupefied shock of Hollywood. With their votes as they consistently reject bicoastal secular elite Democratic presidential candidates. And that is the core reason why Kerry is not doing better against a badly weakened incumbent. Unease at his values.

...but when the christian right has it's ass delivered to them on a collection plate perhaps they will cool their apocalyptic heels for a while and learn to share the country instead of acting like twisted narcissistic children

You've missed it as badly as the Hollywood elite did. Because they live in a milieu where Christians are few and far between they did not have a clue how huge the audience for "The Passion" would be. In the weeks leading up to the release, anyone who attends church regularly could have told them that every regular churchgoer he knows plans to see the movie. That's a lot of people. The left tends to share this obliviousness, this complete and total disconnect with the world that most Americans live in culturally. Because like the Hollywood elite, they too live in a milieu where Christians are few and far between, so they make appallingly tone deaf cultural judgements.

[thebigidea]

44. hilarious how "Hollywood" is supposed to be elite...

when they pander to the lowest common denominator.

[sybylla]

18. No, Bush will loose because the balloon that was his image has exploded

before the sheeples eyes. Bush never was anything substancial-all smoke and mirrors. Now the curtain is up, the rose colored glasses are off and all but the diehard and those who think that as long as he is a good christian is all that matters are the only sheeple left supporting him.

Wake up, Mithridates. The show is over.

[sybylla]

9. And where was I wrong?

I know lots of "good Christians" who I'd hide my silver from. I welcome the rest into my home and my life.

Since when is judging a person by one action not ignorant? Clarification please.

And since when is teaching that Christians are superior to other people not elitist snobery?

[Rockholm]

10. Why most Amercians distrust the "right"

... and why Kerry is just breaking even in the polls, why he has to make loud "centrist" noises is precisely that smart alecky, snide hatred of religion that you just exhibited and that pervades the left.

Well, pal, your guy * play's to the middle and panders to the far right. The same far right freakshow that would take away most, if not all, civil rights. Name the group and the pukes want to restrict rights and freedoms.

On economic issues, most Americans want an anti-offshoring, pro healthcare, pro education policy. But they don't want snotty cultural elite secularist types mocking their values and using the machinery of the state to stamp out any public expressions of religion wherever and whenever possible. And if the American people don't trust your values, they don't trust you to make sound decisions.

"snotty cultural elite secularist" PLEASE. If we left it up the the far right christian zealots, there would no theatre, libraries, movies, music, etc that did not praise Jesus. Religion must stay out of the government. If you really want a theocracy, please move to Iran, Ethiopia, or any other country that lets religion rule the state.

[xchrom]

13. and i'm sick of ''god fearing americans''

stepping on my values!
this is my country too -- damn it -- and ''god fearing, phony family valued facsists'' do not have the right to drag this country into a ignorant, knee jerk reactionary stagnant pit!
people like you describe have no fucking high ground to stand -- the opposite is true in fact.
have a nice day.

[Mithridates]

49. Kerry seeks meeting with Cardinal McCarrick

Kerry cannot politically afford to be perceived as the champion of bay area values (Mondale never recovered from the "San Francisco Democrat" tag. And BTW I don't see anyone being in a particular hurry to hold any future Democratic conventions in San Francisco.). For the survival of his campaign, to reassure the American people, he must respectfully come hat in hand to seek the blessing of religious authority.

It was necessary for him to seek this meeting because even if he personally holds bicoastal secularist values, he must pretend not to. Kerry must be seen by the American people as someone who respects their religious values.

This is something the left must learn. For 20 years the left demanded a "society is to blame", anti-death penalty approach to crime. Finally in 1992 the left saw reason and accepted that if it did not adopt wholesale the law and order, death penalty approach of the right it would never occupy the White House. How long will it be before the left sees reason on its hostility to religion ? How many Republican victories will it take ? Clinton and Gore, being Southerners, understood the importance of making pious noises and keeping the secularist types at arms length. And it is reassuring that Kerry understands it too. But how many people on this board do ?

[BiggJawn]

15. Hitler WAS a "Good Christian", Meine Freund....

It's a myth of the RW that Hitler was an Atheist, or a Wiccan, or some kind of Thulian pagan, but the simple truth of the matter is that he claimed Christianity. I've seen photos of him at churches, he was always invoking God for the Holy Cause of the Fatherland, and even the belt buckles worn by the troops served as a constant reminder that "God is with US" (Gott mit UNS)

So what you suggest is that we on the "left" should pretend to be Christians, just like these end-timers who are in control do?

"they don't want snotty cultural elite secularist types mocking their values and using the machinery of the state to stamp out any public expressions of religion wherever and whenever possible"

OK, so noted. Now what *I* want.....

I don't want a bunch of superstitous cattle being lead by false prophets with an agenda telling me I'm going to some magical place called "Hell" and and using "the machinery of the state" to install THEIR particular myths as LAW and force me to embrace their superstition. In other words, they're free to go to whatever church they want as often as they want, just don't make their dogma Law. Got that? No religous dogma as LAW. How much simpler can it be?

look to Afghanistan under the Taliban for an Idea of what a Fundamentaly religous America would be like. do you want that?

Eh, maybe you do.

Enjoy your stay. Hope it's a short one.

[Mithridates]

22. Why does the left keep missing it. ?

look to Afghanistan under the Taliban for an Idea of what a Fundamentaly religous America would be like. do you want that?

Gee. That's odd. I don't recall 1950 America being anything like Taliban Afghanistan. And culturally a world as safe and secure as that is something most Americans would like. Why do you think the most consistent demographic movement for the past two generations has been people moving away from areas dominated by bicoastal secular elite cultural values to areas where it is still 1950 ?

It's a myth of the RW that Hitler was an Atheist, or a Wiccan, or some kind of Thulian pagan, but the simple truth of the matter is that he claimed Christianity. I've seen photos of him at churches, he was always invoking God for the Holy Cause of the Fatherland, and even the belt buckles worn by the troops served as a constant reminder that "God is with US" (Gott mit UNS)

Fascists had to get along with traditional Christianity because unlike Communists, they were never in a power position to destroy it. Fascism came to power as a result of a deal with the old fashioned conservative Right but was never in a position to destroy the Old School types and had to therefore treat their symbols (the Italian Monarchy, the Churches, the monarchists in the Army General Staff, high society) with deference. Indeed, once it was obvious that the war was hopelessly lost the old school types in both Germany and Italy were powerful enough to plot against fascism. The succeeded against Mussolini and failed against Hitler. Personally, the fascists were atheist to the core because fascism came from Social Darwinism which was an atheist philosophy.

In other words, they're free to go to whatever church they want as often as they want, just don't make their dogma Law. Got that? No religous dogma as LAW. How much simpler can it be?

All law is morals based. All law is based on someone's standards of right and wrong. Standards can be based on personal utilitarianism or they can be based on moral absolutes. All truly dynamic monotheisms work aggressively to change the world around them. No vital, dynamic faith confines itself to Sunday morning prayers. And it is well that they do because without the dynamism of faith cultural, economic, and demographic growth come to a complete halt.

The points I made above hold. The country has decided that it does not want four more Bush years but it is not comfortable yet with Kerry on values issues. If the GOP loses this election, and I think it will, it will come back in four years with a culturally populist faith based agenda and an economically populist anti-offshoring agenda. Such a party could be in power indefinitely.

[Mandate My Ass]

25. Your namesake swallowed a little poison everyday

to build up a tolerance for it so that when he was intentionally fed a lethal dose, he wouldn't die.

Seem the same thing works with bullshit.

[xchrom]

26. hello? you're kidding right?

the fifties --some of the unspoken hall marks of the fifties were some of highest rates of out of wedlock prgnancy and a pretty good clip of syphilis in our country's history. not to mention jim crow and jailing people for inter-racial marriage. i was there the fifties sucked.
and i for one don't need to dissect hitler to dissect the unsavory qualities of conservative christians. complete with their history of''witch-burning'' , monkey trials, and rejecting a womans right to own her own body. conservative christians are sick and twisted people obsessed with things like bill clinton's penis.
they are immature and dangerous in that way that only children can torture a puppy to death and not feel a thing.
not all people who make laws make them based on morality -- through history plenty of law makers have been non-believers have sat in judgement or been in the position to create law.
many those people used ethics and and factual discovery to create laws. and you know that's true.

[sybylla]

27. Seems odd, Texas and California are two of the fastest growing states

I don't think anyone would call either of them bastions of 1950's culture. If by some odd chance you were correct that Americans are "moving away from areas dominated by bicoastal secular elite cultural values to areas where it is still 1950" then Wisconsin would be chock full of people, no? Got a link for that "data"?

As for your comment, "Fascists had to get along with traditional Christianity because unlike Communists, they were never in a power position to destroy it," sounds to me like you just described Bush and the Republican Party's attitude toward fundamentalist Christians in this country. ie, if you look like you're one of them, they'll vote for you in droves and campaign for you in the pulpit.

And, yes, laws are morals based. But Christians don't hold a monopoly on morals. In fact, I'm sure DUers would be happy to start a list of immoral Christians right here for you.

[Mithridates]

35. Texas and California Growth is Immigration Based

Texas and California population growth is immigration driven. But in California's case there is massive population outflow as people and businesses move from California to Idaho, Nevada, and Utah where the cost of living is more reasonable and the quality of life more 1950ish better. The San Francisco Bay Area, for instance, shows a population drop and the massive budget shortfall attests to their losing businesses. It's creeping camdenization (i.e., like Camden N.J. or East St Louis, Mo.), where the quality of life sinks to such a level that the business and taxpayer exodus destroys the economy and tax base of the municipality.

[xchrom]

37. you undoubtedly would be astonished at

how many people will pay some amazing prices to live in this little slice of heaven called the bay area.
but we lose jobs here because of the very un-godly bush and his harmful economic policy's. not for any other reason.
you would simply be astonished how much people love it here.
yes people move to other parts of the country -- people get up and move all over the world all the time.
man kind has ever been wandering.
what you cannot do, not now or ever, is dispute the very real evil consevative christians visit on this society.

[BiggJawn]

34. Are you saying that there are NO morals without Religion?

If so, you're SO full of shit.
Look, I'm an Atheist. In fact, you could even say that I'm a MILITANT Atheist.

Now, how many people did I kill, rob, rape, maim or immolate just for kicks this past week?

None.

Why? Is it because of a fear of the Laws developed out of the intrinsic morality of the religous people who created those Laws?

Don't be so fucking stupid, of COURSE not.

Because it just isn't RIGHT to do those things. Murder and rape are wrong.

Theft is wrong. Lieing is wrong. Sending someone to their death for profit is wrong.

Who's more "moral"? Jawn the Atheist, or The "Godly" Bush gang in Washington?

Oh, and what's this "1950's" bullshit? Lemme tell ya, the 1950's were NOT like you've seen on "Nick at Night" re-runs.

The 50's were the first assault on Democracy by Theism. All that "in GAWD we trust" bullshit? All put in there because some people believed it was a good "litmus test" because Communists were physically incapable of forming the word "God" with their mouths....

Magical thinking again....

[smirkymonkey]

39. What on earth are you doing

living in NYC!!?? I imagine the liberal, secular elitism must be driving you over the edge by now...

[Ysabel]

42. he was definitely NOT Wiccan...!

WTF...?

[ArkDem]

31. A group of cattle is a herd.

.

[Ysabel]

41. who says "most" americans...?

dis-trust the left...?

okay - so you say...

but - where do you get this...?

[outinforce]

20. But Is That Point of View So Different?

"As long as he's a good Christian, that's all that matters to me".

Yes, that is a rather narrow-minded approach to judging someone's fitness to be the leader of a country with more than 250 million people and an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

But is such a point of view really that different from these:

"As long as he opposes the war, that's all that matters to me."

"As long as he is not George Bush, that's all that matters to me."

"As long as he supports (insert favorite social program here), that's all that matters to me."

My point is that for a great many people, there is ONE issue or ONE point of view that tends to trump everything else.

I would venture to guess that some of the folks here on DU can think of an issue that is so important to them that nothing else matters.

[sybylla]

24. Yep, good point

I always thought that was essentially the definition of sheeple? :shrug:

And, yes, I've heard similar expressions here too.

Perhaps this kind of philosophy is perpetuated in order to avoid the work involved in making an informed vote. It's just so much easier to have faith in an issue or a candidate than to research and understand each candidate's position on a complete range of issues.

[outinforce]

28. I Think You May Have Missed

my point.

While it is no doubt true that there are some people who do not take the time to do careful research and understand each candidate's position on a complete range of issues (I would daresay this is most of the American electorate), it is equally true that there are some folks who do look into the position a candidate holds on a number of issues.

And, for some people, a candidate's position on one and only one issue is all that matters.

I can think of several issues where a great number of people would vote for a candidate regardless of her/his position on any other issue.

I know some people who base their vote soley on a candidate's position with regard to Social Security.

I know other people who base their vote solely on a candidate's position regarding war.

I know still other people who base their vote solely on a candidate's position regarding abortion rights.

For a lot of these people, they understand perfectly well the positions the candidates take on issues other than those that are important to them -- but they have one issue that trumps all others.

These folks are hardly "sheeple" (a term I absolutely despise).

[sybylla]

32. No, I understood very well

To support a candidate only because he or she opposes abortion (for example) is ridiculously naive when that same candidate may support positions on issues that cause you to lose your health insurance or send your job overseas or cut taxes that support your local public school so that it has to close and your daughter now has to travel by bus three hours a day to get to and from school.

Because a politician is dressed up in the prom dress of anti-choice (for example) doesn't mean they aren't just political pigs.

If a voter votes on only one issue, they have been led to believe that nothing else matters and that, to me, makes them sheep - hence, sheeple.

[smirkymonkey]

40. You're forgetting one thing...

GW Bush* is NOT a good Christian.

[outinforce]

47. Despite The Fact

that others (some even here on DU) will disagree, I am not God.

That being the case, I can make no judgments -- none -- on whether GW Bush* is or is not a "good" Christian.

That is not up to me to decide -- any more than it is up to Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson to say that anyone else is or is not a "good" Christian.

But whether GWBush* is or is not a "good" Christian, my observation is, I think, still valid. Many people have one issue (and the issues vary) that they feel particularly passionate about. And to those folks, all that really matters, when they go into the voting booth, is how each candidate feels about that particular issue.

[smirkymonkey]

48. Well, I'm God and I say that little

Georgie W. Bush is a very, very naughty boy and a BAD Christian :evilgrin:

[Mandate My Ass]

5. Bush is definitely living out his armageddon fantasies

BOOKS OF THE TIMES; The Bush Family: Father, Son, Freud and Oedipus
By MICHIKO KAKUTANI

THE BUSHES
Portrait of a Dynasty
By Peter Schweizer
and Rochelle Schweizer
Illustrated. 574 pages. Doubleday. $27.95

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE7DE1E30F93AA15750C0A9629C8B63

<snip>


Members of the usually media-wary Bush family seem surprisingly unguarded in talking to the authors, and some of their remarks could well disconcert a White House in campaign mode or ratify opponents' worst fears. For instance the Schweizers quote one unnamed relative as saying that George W. Bush sees the war on terrorism ''as a religious war'': ''He doesn't have a p.c. view of this war. His view of this is that they are trying to kill the Christians. And we the Christians will strike back with more force and more ferocity than they will ever know.''

The Schweizers write that with the war on terrorism, family members saw ''the Walker genes literally coming out in him,'' referring to the Walker side of his family -- ''aggressive risk-takers who wanted to win at all costs.'' They describe what they call George W.'s ''addictive personality,'' which ''required him to fix in on something and maintain a hold on it.'' And they quote a relative who says: ''With terrorism, he's like a dog with a bone. He won't give up on it.''

Religious zealotry + dry drunkeness = :nuke:

[ArkDem]

11. Hmmmmm................

Wasn't Christ talking about not making a public show of how good you are? Because if you kept your religion to yourself wouldn't it be hard to go out and spread the gospel (good news)? At least, I've always heard spreading the gospel was an integral part of christianity. But alas, what do I know?

[mopaul]

12. good question ark

but the bible clearly states that one must not make a big display of religiosity, as in, going into the closet to privately pray.

yet, the good word must be spread. it can be, without the posturing and primping and constant show of piety.

the good christians that i know, like my own dear dad, never make a show of their religion. unless it comes up.
my dad's christian deeds speak much louder than his words.
and in his mind, his lord appreciates it.

[rasputin1952]

33. "You will know him by his works"...

All of thge major religions preach love, peace and understanding. Once the mind of man attempts to 'elevate' those thooughts, trouble is brewing.

People who genuinely help the poor, disabled or sick, usually do it anonymously. No true Christian, Jew or Muslim looks for reward or praise...you do it, because it is the right thing to do.

:)

[supernova]

21. The Limitations of the Reactionary Mind

I think what we are witnessing in the Bush WH is rather more broad that just a limitation of religious zealotry, thought that's certainly a part of it. I think what we've seen are the limitations of the Reactionary Mind. I don't say "Conservative Mind" because I do want to distinguish the differences between * and someone like David Gergen, who is a conservative.

* Refusal to alter decisions and methods based upon changing data. The war in Iraq is clearly not going well, yet * insists "It's going well; we're keeping to the June 30 deadline for handover." This despite the fact our children, lovers, friends and colleagues keep coming home in body bags; despite the deaths of thousands if Iraqi civilians and the acrid smell of civil war in the air. This is despite the fact it's not at all clear to whom we will hand over power at the end of June.

* Refusal to admit mistakes. "I'm sure I'll think of something." The tragedy is * really does think this. His capacity for self-reflection is woefully inadequate. If * had the capacity for self-reflection, he would not have needed someone to feed him lines on Tuesday night at his own press conference.

* Refusal to see religion in other than disciplinarian terms. Rituals are important. Rules are important. If rituals and rules are broken, changed, or just plain sidestepped, the perpetrator must be punished. It isn't enough to say that gay marriage is presently illegal in this country (not what I supernova personally feel but work with me here) Oh No!We must have a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage -- permanently and forever, no questions allowed.

If W were one man, these traits would not be troubling. What is so very deeply disturbing in the American psyche right now is his millions of followers who deeply adore him precisely for these inadequacies.

[checks-n-balances]

30. You nailed it exactly, supernova

This characterizes * (and the Religious Right/RW of the Republican Party) as well as most anything I've read. It's this dualistic, black-and-white, good v. evil thinking ("my country - right or wrong,""you're with us or against us," "my way or the highway")that refuses to acknowledge the grey areas of life that should have us all afraid.

VERY afraid.

[checks-n-balances]

23. BACKGROUND ON THIS ARMAGEDDON STUFF

I got caught up in some of that "Left Behind" theology back in 1975 when I read that horrible book, "The Late Great Planet Earth." Wanted something definite to hold onto because I was afraid of change (sound familiar?). So I've researched this very heavily.

These literal misinterpretations of scripture can mostly be attributed to John Nelson Darby in the 19th century, who in turn "inspired" the development of the Schofield Reference Bible. The influence on the development of Christian fundamentalism is incalculable and its influence on stable, mainline Christian thinking and now foreign policy is tragic, frustrating, and frightening.

Do a Google search on Darby if you want to read further. Most people in the US are clueless about this historical background but it helps connect the dots.

The other side of the Christian Right is Dominionism/Theocracy, which has its roots in R.J. Rushdoony. His influence lives on at the Chalcedon foundation and is the other major source of "theology" underpinnings within the Christian Coalition. Deadly marriage of distorted theology and fascistic politics. Rushdoony is known for having said "Democracy is heresy." Look him up on Google too. BTW, he was a huge influence on John whatever his name is at the Rutherford Foundation who was instrumental in supporting Paula Jones' case against Clinton.

Sounds like a far-fetched conspiracy theory, but I'm not making this up (unfortunately). Ironically, the dominionist/theocrats disavow all the Armageddon interpretations of the Bible originating with Darby. Darby thought God's plan would come true after the Rapture and at Armageddon. Followers of Rushdoony believe it should be imposed NOW by establishing a Christian theocracy HERE.

Politically speaking, the apocalyptic worldview apparently held by Bush is hastening a real Armaggedon - to hell with life on earth, because all that matters is Christians going to heaven & Jews converting to Christianity so that they can do the same. With that mindset, it's convenient to ignore the needs of real people living in poverty or of the environment when you're so focused on the hereafter. Whereas a theocracy may not hasten "the end of the world" because its supporters place so much importance of EVERYBODY doing "God's will" here on earth as they interpret it (basically through following literally all the laws in Old Testament - stoning, etc.). They ignore the parts about showing compassions to others and "repairing the earth" (that's called "Tikkun" in Hebrew).

This stuff is one of the biggest influences on the RW of American Christianity, partly because it plays on and manipulates the most base fears and hatred (our worst selves as human beings).

Anyone doing an intelligent & comprehensive study of the Bible will discover how all of this is about as far as you can get from Jesus' teachings and life.

Sorry for the long rant, but this is an extreme pet peeve of mine - can you tell??

Here's a story about one politician who has a compassionate interpretation of the Bible (and is probably paying a price for it):

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0404&article=040410

[Ysabel]

43. your post reminds me - another link...

nice (i like it) magazine / site:

http://www.tikkun.org/

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p.s. hello and welcome to DU...

[soleft]

36. This is where I think you can legitimately compare Bush to Hitler

They both suffer from extreme personality disorders. As I think most fundamentalists do.

[rman]

45. the leaders feel the need to pander to religious zealots

since the cause of Total War Inc coincides nicely with the want for armageddon.

[playahata1]

46. Again, the following quote from Michael Eric Dyson:

"If I had to choose, I'd rather sink with atheists who say they don't believe in God, yet love God's children, and show it with the work they do and in their compassion for the vulnerable, than rise with believers whose view of God is shriveled and vicious, and who punish others, and themselves, ultimately, with hard-hearted moralizing, and a cruel indifference to the suffering of the unwashed that grows from the ill-temperedness of the self-righteous."