the endless debate: is w really as stupid as he appears?

[mopaul]

every few weeks the debate picks up speed, usually after a disasterous press conference or speech. and then they trot out fred barnes and tucker carlson to remind us all that w is not really a retard. after hearing the bushapologists ramble on like this for years, the debate still rages, unsettled.

where do you stand? i've seen many, even in here insist that w is really smart, just inarticulate. repubs point out that he's down homey and common like the average citizen. i disagree, the average citizen can speak very plainly and use complete sentences.

i see him as dangerously stupid, in fact, i don't think i've ever seen anyone so stupid, achieve such a lofty position. president, no less, yet there are always bushapologists who say the notion that w is stupid is preposterous. which is it?

[Another Bill C.]

1. Yesterday's discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1417113

[OpSomBlood]

2. Yeah...

The scariest thing about the situation is that Osama bin Laden appears to be more in tune with what's going on in the world from his cave than Bush is from Crawford.

[jimshoes]

3. I knew from the debates

in 2000 that * was less than average in the intellect department. I argued the point with my sister, bless her heart, who is married to a very good guy albeit a repub. Turns out I was absolutely right. * is stupid.

[the Kelly Gang]

4. "i see him as dangerously stupid": that about says it all

[dbt]

5. Stupid? No.

In the first place, nobody could be as stupid as bu$h looks, without being institutionalized.

bu$h has an open contempt for intelligence. Why should he waste his "beautiful mind" by trying to understand anything new? As evidenced by his academic record, he will make no attempt to learn. He's got it all figured out and it's real simple. Good guys/bad guys, you're either with me or agin me.

What bu$h is is deliberately ignorant. He's not stupid. He is as cunning as a street thug and way more dangerous.

:freak:
dbt

[OpSomBlood]

7. Contempt for intelligence.

It's not just Bush, it's the entire right wing. We're the "intellectual elite" as if that's a bad thing.

[mopaul]

9. intelligent people are hard to oppress

and they are a threat to the thugs. same thing happened under stalin hitler mao etc., intellectual elites is just their name for the enemy next door.

i never thought i'd live to see this awful state of our union

[ablbodyed]

8. This seems to be the best....

description of Chimpy. But it is the vile religion that is now at the heart of his anti-thought persona. He was always determined to be ignorant, but the fundie addiction to hatred of MINDS is now the dominant factor.

[Turbineguy]

6. When the Supreme Court appointed him

I told one of my friends; "We have to protect our children!"

I don't think the problem is that we were right, I think the problem is we never imagined how right we would be.

[0007]

10. junior is just a front - The folks behind him, like the Carlyle Group

and big corporations had their heads up their asses when they picked this moron.

Everytime junior opens his mouth the American people expect to hear what ears can't believe.

[0007]

12. Folks blinded by greed led junior to a place in history

I bet those same folks wish they could change that decision.

[western mass]

11. Stupid as dirt, not even cunning...

The people around him are cunning. B* is a sad little puppet who never succeeded at anything in his life on his own. A functional illiterate with a third grade vocabulary, if it wasn't for his rich, connected family he'd be living in his parents basement and sweeping aisles at Walmart.

[acmavm]

13. It all depends. Intellectually and morally, he's a total idiot. But he has

an innate craftiness, and a built-in instinct towards criminal behavior. He's simply a sociopath who's developed the skills necessary to con people into believing what he says. He easily sees ways to turn situations into his advantage, and the fact that he can lie 'like a rug' (my great-grandmother used to say that) with a straight face and seemingly total conviction makes others believe him. He is also flawed in that he comes from a family that believes that they are American 'royalty' and that what is good for them is good for this country. So the moran grew up with this feeling of entitlement and an elitist attitude that disallows and concern or compassion for anyone not a member of his social station.

Now back to his intellect. What can you say about someone who's mother had to use flashcards to get them to understand anything clear up to the seventh grade? And take into consideration his grades in college. He was a 'C' student. And God only knows how much effort and string pulling it took the guy to score 'average' on his grades.

Morally, he's a total bankrupt. Lying, stealing, murder, subversion of the Consitution, fraud, you name it, he's done it. And without any qualms whatsoever. He's got a black hole in his soul when it comes to decency and ethical behavior. Like I've said before (and many others as well), the man is a true sociopath.

[xchrom]

14. while he's certainly not the brightest bulb

he makes up for this by being vicious.
in that peculiar way that some people have that aren't really very bright. i stand by his death row record in texas -- he enjoys killing people. even if from a distance. he even married somebody who killed somebody. there is something dark, twisted and morbid there.
the mistake dems make is they ''misunderestimate'' him -- and then the election is stolen. bright? no. cunning, vicious, and dangerous? absolutely.

[Tripmann]

15. If brains were dynamite....

...Bush couldn't blow his nose. I remember reading a study by a research group that can approximate IQs by analysing speech, articulation and a number of other facets. Of the American presidents JFK topped it and Clinton came second. The one figure that stands out is G.W. with an approximated IQ of 91.

The desk I'm typing this at has an IQ higher than 91!

I would be more worried about his state of mind than his intelligence. You can overcome stupidity by surrounding yourself with clever people. But if you don't realise you're a plank you're in trouble.

Remember, a fool and his money are soon President!

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

16. dumber than dumb

He is good at lying though.

[kcwayne]

18. I don't think he is good at lying

I don't believe anything he says, do you?

[BlueEyedSon]

17. Straight C student... add booze & coke, then stir

[OneTwentyoNine]

19. Well...Let's just say he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.....

Meaning he's too damn stupid to be President....

[opihimoimoi]

20. America got HAD

[blindpig]

21. willful ignorance

I don't think we should confuse ignorance with stupidity. Bu$h is a rich punk who throughout his life has never had to apply himself, so he hasn't. He always has had someone to do the hard thinking for him and he flaunts it. He does have a taste and marginal ability for stump politics which he applies with a native visciousness. It doesn't take much smarts to be that sort of politician, just entry level cunning. Dick will do all the hard thinking for him.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. He's average, and has a low interest in other people

who don't think like him. His one success early in life was piloting a jet - given the chance to do this (which most people would jump at, especially if it kept you out of Vietnam), he was capable of learning how to do so. So he's OK with machines, if he feels like it. He also charms some people - he knows how to make himself look good, personally. But he's no good with ideas that come from other people - either understanding them, or discussing them. His world is black and white - 'us' (ie Dubya, and anyone who already agrees with him) and the rest.

But he doesn't understand anyone with a different background to him - and he never makes an effort to, even after 3 years as the leader of the US. In the past, that position was often described as 'leader of the free world'. Nowadays, anyone describing Bush like that would be laughed out of journalism. Bush is too lazy to understand most of the world; ironically he'd like 6 billion clones of himself (or 3 billion of him, and 3 billion of Laura - after all, he loves talking about pussy).

[displacedtexan]

23. To quote Rooboy...

Bush* is The Rain Man pResident!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1419679

[LizW]

24. Of average intelligence and lazy

It is his elitist sense of entitlement that makes him dangerous. He is easily manipulated and flattered. Cheney, et al, play him by making him think he's making the decisions. He's a puppet, and he either doesn't realize it or doesn't care because it's so much fun prissing around the country to "Hail to the Chief".

The one thing he excels at is playing the rich white guys' game. He is good at getting money out of them, and repaying the debt with perks. This made him a perfect front for the cabal that is really running the country.

[incrediculous]

25. Yes

He is that stupid.

Just listen to the radio version of the press conference in which a simple introspective question left him dumbfounded.

It wasn't about policy. It wasn't about Iraq.

It was about his personal life.

[DemLikr]

26. Read this from Merriam Webster - Shrub* is VERY VERY stupid

To my mind, people like Shrub are WILLFULLY STUPID. They are not unintelligent; however, they make a CHOICE to turn away from knowledge and reason, to consider information and areas of gray. It is much easier, to the thinking of such STUPIDOS, to go through life behind a thick veil of feigned "common sense," which is nothing more than an excuse for not having to THINK.

What we saw at Shrub's so-called press conference was the train wreck that occurs when the veil is lowered even a bit by a few softball inquiries.

Main Entry: <1>stu·pid
Pronunciation: 'stü-p&d, 'styü-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French stupide, from Latin stupidus, from stupEre to be numb, be astonished —more at TYPE
Date: 1541
1 a : slow of mind : OBTUSE b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c : lacking intelligence or reason : BRUTISH
2 : dulled in feeling or sensation : TORPID <still stupid from the sedative>
3 : marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : SENSELESS
4 a : lacking interest or point b : VEXATIOUS, EXASPERATING <this stupid flashlight won't work>
- stu·pid·ly adverb
- stu·pid·ness noun
synonyms STUPID, DULL, DENSE, CRASS, DUMB mean lacking in power to absorb ideas or impressions. STUPID implies a slow-witted or dazed state of mind that may be either congenital or temporary <stupid students just keeping the seats warm> <stupid with drink>. DULL suggests a slow or sluggish mind such as results from disease, depression, or shock <monotonous work that leaves the mind dull>. DENSE implies a thickheaded imperviousness to ideas <too dense to take a hint>. CRASS suggests a grossness of mind precluding discrimination or delicacy <a crass, materialistic people>. DUMB applies to an exasperating obtuseness or lack of comprehension <too dumb to figure out what's going on>.

[chaska]

27. If it looks like a duck....

The time has come to call a spade a spade. Stupid is as stupid appears to be. End of story.

[Kazak]

28. He's...

the most successful (if you can even call it that) C student ever.

[Skittles]

29. I've put up with that piece of shit for ten years now

he is dumber than a box of rocks.

[ComerPerro]

30. the fact that RW pundits have to always reiterate "he is not stupid"

should tell you that the man is a fucking moron. That in itself should be enough.

Like you, I think the man is both inarticulate AND a complete idiot. How in the world does someone so damn stupid, so terribly unqualified, and so dangerously incompetent get to such a high position?

Oh yeah, the good old boy network, lies, and fraud... I remember now...

The thing that really astonishes me is that most reich wingers apparently don't have a problem with flat-out worshipping someone who is much stupider than them. How can you respect a man with the diminished intelligence and plagued past of Bush?

[NewJeffCT]

31. No stupid, but...

I just think he is so f-ing lazy that he doesn't bother to learn to speak well. He's too busy planning his next trip to Crawford or Camp David. One reason I don't buy the comparisons to Hitler - Hitler worked very hard to become a good orator, while * is just too lazy.

Is he smart? Not by a long shot. But, I do think he is average to above average in intelligence. He did better in 2000 vs Gore in the debates than Kemp did previously vs Gore.

I got 1300 on my SATs years back and did well in a tough major at a good college. I'd like to think I'm pretty intelligent (and probably am more intelligent than *) but if you put me in front of a crowd or on the spot, I often stumble when talking and often stutter and stammer. Granted, my line of work rarely calls for me to go in front of crowds to speak or to field mildly tough questions from the media.

But, I certainly would not have been rejected by the University of Texas...

[kentuck]

32. If we were smarter, we could use this as a poltical weapon.....

But not by calling him "stupid"....but by reverse psychology. We should use these moments to point out how brilliant he is and build him up as a great communicator with great judgement and leadership skills. We should point out that he probably reads a lot more than people give him credit for...By pointing out qualities that so oppose reality, will plant the seeds of doubt for some self-reflection on the minds of the Repub partisans... Naw! He's stupid!

[yellowcanine]

33. I didn't use to think so but now I am convinced that

yes, he is "stupid" in the sense that he lacks curiosity and seeks black/white solutions to complex nuanced problems. Curiosity is a sign of intelligence so it follows that lack of curiosity is a sign of lack of intelligence. This is actually the best argument for getting rid of * and electing Kerry. No one can accuse Kerry of lacking curiosity. Kerry will know when a briefer is bs-ing him, even if the analysis supports his hoped for result. Uncurious George will accept the analysis of the "experts" as long as it supports his hoped for result.