It occurred to me tonight that there is nothing that we can really do to

[baronessniki]

stop them (the so-called terrorists). They are smart, patient, defiant, brave, and don't mind dying. WE can only kill a lot of them and alot of innocents along with them but they will keep coming. And since they are not an organized unifored military that we can recognize, they will keep coming. Bush said he was tired of 'swating flies.' Well, it's all about flies and we had better learn to swat them. They don't have heavy equipment, helicopters, missiles, planes, night vision apparatus, bullet proof vests, high powered rifles, sophisticated bombs etc. But they have heart, guts, and a common enemy and a justified cause. There is no real defense against this. Unless we take away what they claim is their cause, and I have no reason to disbelieve them, it will not make a difference.

[progressiveBadger]

1. Kill a thousand people, and you have a thousand more enemies...

Change a thousand people's minds, and you have a thousand allies. Anthony Quinn said that. In this case, since I think we can all agree that it is impossible to change minds BY killing, I think that we can change minds of people across the world who think that we are a bully nation by pulling out and let the Iraqis decide what they want.

[ezee]

3. Agreed, Look at India

there are over a Billion people there and we(the world) dont have the discontent and hatred coming from that country. Reason:They were shown that comerce and education can give them hope,which brings prosperity.

[terisel]

5. India ended British colonial rule through non-violence n/t

[GiovanniC]

20. Frankly...

I think if you kill a thousand people, you'll have MORE than a thousand enemies. If someone killed your mother, your brother, or your lover, how many enemies would that create for them?

[maggrwaggr]

2. give 'em TV's and pickup trucks and shopping malls

and they'll be a nice complacent population, just like the US

[Ernesto]

16. You know I had a similar thought,

about 37 years ago. when I was in a shithole quagmire know as Vietnam. The only difference was: Give em all motorbikes & transister radios and they'll be happy capitalists just like us.

[alcuno]

4. There always have been terrorists and there always will be.

You need to swat at the flies while changing US policies abroad. The notion that we have done NOTHING to incite violence throughout the world is laughable. People fight with the tools that they have. We need to be smarter and I'm afraid that we're just being stubborn.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

[WVhill]

6. Not enough time has passed to make that judgement.

I'm not sure we really understand the complete picture. The UN Oil-For-Food scam discovered from documentation found in Iraq is still in the initial stages of investigation. The reports of Iranian involvement in the recent attacks is, in my opinion, not proven and requires followup. The role of Saudi Arabia in financing terrorism is still being unraveled.

The financial investigations started after 9/11 have borne some fruit but much needs to be done. Over time as the funding arrangements behind the terrorists are exposed, we can move to limit their financial resources. We're early in that process. With the exception of states like Libya of their own choice and Iraq which had no choice, many of the other states haven't been totally forthcoming with information.

Can we eliminate all terrorism? No we can't. But we can reduce the available resources and secure areas. By establishing a moderate educational system in Iraq as an example as opposed to the schools run by Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, not as many in future generations may be as predisposed to the mindset that accepts terrorism.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

8. Dreams are free...

and that is one MAJOR dream you got going there!

The US can't even establish law and order in Iraq - what makes you think they could establish a moderate educational system?

Hell, the only reason things aren't WORSE in Iraq right now is because the Shi'ite religious leaders have called for patience. As soon as they realise that the US intends to dictate how Iraq is run, you can be sure those same religous leaders will be issuing fatwa's calling for Jihad.

By the way, Britain fought Irish Republican terrorists for decades and got NOWHERE. It wasn't until they actually began compromising that they got anywhere, and that was in one relatively small country.

What makes you think the US can do better when the terrorists have the entire GLOBE to hide in?

[WVhill]

11. I think it's a pay me now or pay me much more later situation.

I'm not sure we can do better. But unless we do something to try and break the cycle, I don't think terrorism is going away by itself especially with the political tactics they're trying. I think the majority of Iraqis want to live their lives and raise their families in a safe environment. Many of them didn't have that under Saddam. Saddam's sons had their way with anyone they desired. Families had their daughters disappear never to be found. People were imprisoned, tortured and murdered for the slightest reason.

While Saddam was building a hundred palaces, the country's infrastructure including hospitals, power plants, etc. wasn't developed to serve all Iraqis. We need to build Iraqi infrastructure to benefit the average Iraqi family. On the way I'm hoping a moderate representative government is established.

Besides Iran, another major problem in the Mideast is Saudi Arabia's sponsorship of terrorism. The House of Saud is being pressured to reform their government and give all Saudis a voice. Some of that pressure paid off in the arrest of radical Wahhabi clerics and their subsequent recantation of violence. Unfortunately moderate voices for reform were recently arrested. So far we've taken Libya and Iraq out of the "secure" for terrorists column. We need to finish the job in Iraq. Creating a moderate society in Iraq is a threat to both the House of Saud and the fundamentalist clerics in Iran. We need to continue that.

What we're doing threatens terrorists by slowly eliminating countries that will support them, restricting their financial resources and over time giving millions of people something they never had ... a decent life.

If we don't do something to establish moderation in the Mideast, we risk loosing Iraq to fundamentalists and in the long term the fall of the House of Saud to the same. Imagining fundamentalists in control of Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia and the subsequent explosion of terrorism is not a pretty thought. Not to imagine the effect on our economy when oil prices are manipulated by those who wish us ill. As bad as things look now, I forsee much worse if we don't stay the course.

[Must_B_Free]

7. Lesson is: you can't leave people out

the only way to combat terrorism is to try to find ways to make people happy.

You can't just exclude people and say well, sorry, you lose.

[0007]

13. Bingo!!!

Everyone must be part of the community, not just Israel and counties that comply to our wishes.

[sendero]

9. Anyone who needs an example....

.... need look at the stunning lack of success the state of Israel has had. We are now following in their footsteps.

Imitate failures, what a concept.

[baronessniki]

10. Good point. Great example

Sadly, we are going down the same hopeless path.

[0007]

15. ....and what did the Brits learn from the 1920 war with Iraq?

We treat Israel fair and equitable why not the rest of the people in the world?

Why must we tell everyone to like us?

[WVhill]

12. How does that apply

when we're building hospitals and other infrastructure for the Iraqis. Does Israel do that for Palestinians?

[ComerPerro]

14. Give me a fucking break

Don't try to pass that tired line of BS here.

Sure, we are building hospitals, schools, and infrastructure for the Iraqis.

But don't forget one crucial detail:

We are REbuilding them.

They had hospitals, schools, electricty, and running water under Saddam.

We destroyed much of it.

Remeber shock and awe??

Yeah, that's what that was.

[WVhill]

19. So why didn't Saddam rebuild them?

And yes in during Gulf War I we targeted power plants. As for seeking out and destroying hospitals and schools, I don't buy that. Saddam took care of those from which he drew his support including building neighborhoods restricted to his people. The rest didn't matter.

[Az]

17. Terrorism is simply a reaction to ubeatable military power

In other words when you have nothing left to lose you hurt the enemy any way you can. There is no way they could stand toe to toe against our military. They are not simply going to lie down and say, gosh, you are too strong, guess we have to give up everything we believe in. Its not going to happen. You leaven them no way out they will go through the people. The more you squeeze them the more they will hurt back. Its really that simple. You want terrorists? You send in the military.

[ComerPerro]

18. Not always

Sometimes, its just a way for a right wing fanatic or a religious zealot to exercise their twisted take on God's will.