Why does everybody call Dean to far too the left (even here)?

[BushHasGotToGo]

He builds himself on fiscal conservativism.

The only thing "too far to the left" about him was that he opposed the war.

And that was a good thing. If I had to pick Dean over Clinton, I'd pick Dean. (Of course, I'd take both of them over Bush any day. Why can't we have both as co-president? Maybe Clinton as Secy. of State).

It seems many on the left are marginalizing the strongest candidate in the field.

[tjdee]

1. Healthcare/Iraq War/Civil Unions.

Those three issues make him a "lefty" to anyone who really isn't paying attention. They're kind of big issues, LOL, get a lot of press.

I think very few people at DU find Dean to be a liberal. He's a moderate, that's cool.

[BushHasGotToGo]

2. But even Clinton supported Universal Healthcare

As do a majority of the country.

And his plan is market-based and costs 1/3 of Gephardt's plan (who is beholden to the unions).

Were Americans always this conservative?

[tjdee]

4. Look how Clinton's healthcare plan turned out, LOL.

The majority of Americans may feel that way, but a majority of Americans don't vote.

America is not as conservative as our government is.

[Oracle]

23. Or was the all powerful AMA frightened (or threatened?)

Universal Heath Care, heavens...what an idea...we don't need that...

[Stoic]

3. Marginalization

When you want to bring someone down, you label him. In this case calling him a leftie or liberal marginalizes him as a "loser". Also, if you keep on calling him a leftie and her turns out to be more center-left, you can then turn around and accuse him of duplicity. Even though it was someone ELSE who was doing the labeling.

[BushHasGotToGo]

7. How do we fight this?

I definitely believe Dean is a lot stronger in potential than any other candidate. Kerry is a distant #2nd followed by Edwards, Lieberman, and Gephardt.

Surely the Rove machine is looking to marginalize Dean as it did Edwards. And with the bully pulpit this is not hard.

The Bush team will try to not allow another Clinton to evolve. But there has to be some way, some how we can fight back.

Currently, Bush is leading Dean by 28 points. Bush's approval is 59%. and Dean has almost no support (poll wise) in the South.

I'm in central Texas and I want to work my heart out to make sure Dean wins the primary here. Lieberman is of course probably the favorite, followed by Gephardt.

What do I do and what do we do?

[Stoic]

9. Dean has the best strategy.

He's reaching out and building up a vast group of supporters. He's got something near 250,000 people signed up now. In six months it will be more than a half million. Even now, every time he gets bashed by the DLC, get's bashed by the punditry, etc. he turns around and gets tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations and several thousand more signing up to help his candidacy. He's bypassing the media, the party hierarchy and the Republicans. He's doing what the Democratic Party should have done years ago.

[loyalsister]

29. Here's what you do....

You gather the evidence. Dean's speaches and the facts on his history in VT, and go door to door in small towns. Table at county fairs, fall festivals, ANY event you can find. Court the rural voters with his conservative positions.
ALSO, highlight this idea of restoring community. Check it out in his announcement speech and some of his quotes since. Take a look at the part of his economic plan to keep downtowns in business. These are things that matter to people in small towns. Go to your meetup and plan a way to take the information directly to those groups.
The thing about this campaign is there's something for everyone and the theme of bringing communities together is inspiring and optimistic.

[Redleg]

8. Exactly- now the media (and some here) are using the right-wing

talking points about Dean being an extreme leftist and McGovernite.

[not systems]

5. fiscal conservativism

I think the Dean is left meme is coming from the
media. Many people on this board camplained that
he to right.

I don't know if he is more less right/left than
Clinton, he seems about the same to me.

Which is one reason I support him.

I think as the bond market crackup hits and the
intrest rates and further damages the economy
Dean will run very strongly against the red ink
republicans.

I think this issue will grow in Deans favor and
the war will be a nonissue for many prowar types.

[Frances]

11. This country loves sound bites

and Dean is coming up with good answers to Republican labels. For example, he says, "If balancing the budget means I am a liberal, then I am a liberal."

I spent the evening with two middle-aged men from eastern Washington. They both love hunting and are very macho. One of the men was talking about how Boeing is cutting jobs. He also has three relatives in Iraq. He said they say that morale is very low.

I would bet a hundred dollars that both men have voted Republican for years. However, I think they may listen to Dean when they would not listen to the other Democratic candidates simply because Dean is a straight talking man from a rural state.

Of course, Bush will do everything he can to marginalize Dean and Bush may be successful. But I think that Dean has the best answers to the Republican smear tactics and I think that, from what I've seen, he has the best chance at this point.

Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind. I think that the other candidates have strong points too.

[revcarol]

6. Too far to the right, IMHO!!

"Fiscal conservatism without reducing the defense budget(Russert program) is a good way to reduce public education, Medicaid and Medicare, every program that really HELPS PEOPLE!!WANTS TO RAISE THE SS AGE TO 68!!

I always remember those words from 200 years ago:" and promote the general welfare..." NOT the defense industries...

[JohnKleeb]

10. I totally agree

and you know we can get DK's pre school program without raising taxes too. I always have wonder why there is no public pre school, its like Dennis is reading my head on some things.

[liberalmuse]

12. No way!

I consider him a moderate, but I'll take him! It's just ridiculous how demonized the word 'liberal' has become. I'd laugh if it weren't so assinine the way the news media carefully handle the 'L' word, like it was the ebola virus, or something. Hey @ssholes, if the 'L' word is so hard for you, try the word, 'evolved'. Dean IS that.

[Cascadian]

31. It's even more absurd that people compare him to McGovern or Dukakis.

I fail to see in the logic in that.

John

[redeye]

13. Dean has both moderate and left credentials...

...which is why there are a lot of people here who love him and hate Kucinich, love him and hate Kerry and Edwards, hate him and love Kerry and Edwards, or hate him and love Kucinich.

His left credentials include opposition to the war, support of civil unions, implicit support of separation of church and state, secular life, support of affirmative action, good record on choice, and universal health care.

His moderate credentials include supporting a balanced budget in the short- as well as long run, refusal to hold litmus tests for Court nominations, support of free trade with some fair trade provisions, opposition to significant cuts in the defense budgets, support of the Patriot Act but without the unconstitutional provisions, support of the death penalty in extreme cases and when the defendant is proven innocent beyond any doubt, and a pretty bad record with unions.

Now, I actually think that the first three moderate credentials are very liberal - deficit spending shouldn't be done when the debt is as high as the USA's; justices should be picked on the basis of ability, intelligence, general interpretation of the constitution, etc., rather than litmus tests; and international trade policy should help everyone, not just Americans. Therefore, I support Dean even though he's not a pure liberal - more like a left-leaning libertarian.

[Nicholas_J]

14. Deans strategy...

Is to tell everyone what they want to hear.

Basically this involves two kinds of lying. First by comission, and then by omision.

Dean has done a great Deal of attacking of other candidates on TWO issues. The Patriot Act, and the October Resolution. He has greatly misinterpreted the contenst of these.He has made his OPINION, fact by repeating the same things over and over again.

If you look at Deans entire record as governor, there is little of the left about Dean:



He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats’ liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.

Dean fashioned himself a position in the political center of Vermont politics even as the state has moved steadily to the left...

To the anger of more liberal members of his own party, he insisted that the tax increases be rolled back on schedule and then went on to work for additional tax cuts later in his tenure...

By the same token, though, he also supported raising taxes — as long as it wasn’t the income tax — when school funding crises and other issues arose that required it...

Throughout, he held a tight rein on state spending, repeatedly clashing with the Democrats who controlled the Legislature for most of his years as governor.

Dean trimmed spending or held down increases in areas held dear by the liberals. More than once, Dean went to battle over whether individual welfare benefits should rise under automatic cost of living adjustments. Liberals were particularly incensed when he tried that tactic on a program serving the blind, disabled and elderly, which he did several times.

http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may%5F03/may%5F19/news/reg%5Fvt0519a.asp


Anybody but Bush? Watch out, Dems!
Let's aim higher than pro-death penalty, pro-drug war Dean


Is the task of booting George Bush out of the White House paramount? Out with the imperial Crusader, the death-penalty-loving, Bill-of-Rights-trashing, drug-war-advocating corporate serf! By all means. But whoa! Who's this we see, galloping out of the mists of rosy-fingered dawn, a knight errant sent by the gods to give the kiss of life to all our fainting hopes? It's … why, it's… yes, it's another imperial Crusader, a death-penalty-loving, Bill-of-Rights-trashing, drug-war-advocating corporate serf. Only he's a Democrat, not a Republican. That changes everything. Or does it?

Take Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont. Right now, he's enjoying a boomlet. Across this great land, ambitious Democrats are hopping from foot to foot in an agony of indecision. Kerry, Graham, Dean, Gephardt: Which way to jump? Dean! Clinton without the satyriasis, Carter without the Baptist sanctimony; a simple country doctor (albeit with Dean and Witter armorial bearings) who ran Vermont through the Nineties, and who, somewhere in the mid to late 90s, began to set his compass for the White House. Progressive, but not radical; against the war, but no peacenik.

I'm a realist. I know that anyone hoping to win the Democratic nomination has to achieve acts of political prestidigitation equivalent to, though harder than, guiding a herd of rampaging Gadarene swine through the eye of a needle. No matter that a candidate might have the idealism of William Morris, the conscience of Philip Berrigan, the moral clarity of Robespierre or Ralph Nader, he'd still have to act as ruthless swineherd. I know that. But I'll confess it. The more I look at Dean, the less I like him.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15211

The problem is, without initially trying to present a 'LIBERAL" or "PROGRESSIVE" persona, Dean had NO constituency. He basucally took a group of disgruntled young people who beleive that somehow, magically, the typr of politics they wish to happen should occur with the wave of a wand.
AS a matter of fact, a Vermonmt Political Scientist and progressive opponent of Dean describes him this way:

.

After Dean officially announced his campaign on June 23, some news stories identified him with the left. It's a case of mistaken identity. "He's really a classic Rockefeller Republican -- a fiscal conservative and social liberal," according to University of Vermont political scientist Garrison Nelson.

As a fiscal conservative, Dean is aligned with the status quo of extreme inequities. That alignment was on display during a pair of June 22 appearances.

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Dean delivered a one-two punch against economic justice. He advocated increasing the retirement age for Social Security, and he called for slowing down the rate of increases for Medicare spending.

The next day, at his official campaign kickoff, Dean gave a 26-minute speech and didn't mention Iraq at all. It was a remarkable performance from someone who has spent much of the last year pitching himself to peace activists as some kind of anti-war candidate.

Dean is already sending a message to his announced supporters among peace and social-justice advocates: Thanks, suckers.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15232&CFID=81%2078495&CFTOKEN=3253804

Dean got massive support by pretending to be something that he was not, is not, and never has any intention of being.

Thatss the funniest part and the most tragicpart to me. I am frequently angered by Dean supporters, but hjust as frequently sorry for them having been suckered by the guy, who actually beleives they are just too dumb to figure out what he is by thmeselves. He may smirk his way into the nomination, but all of the way he will be thinking "SUCKERS!"

[JohnKleeb]

15. That is true

"Dean has done a great Deal of attacking of other candidates on TWO issues. The Patriot Act, and the October Resolution. He has greatly misinterpreted the contenst of these.He has made his OPINION, fact by repeating the same things over and over again."

No one knows how Dean would have voted on the patriot act really and like most I think he would have voted for it and also the war resolution, he said he wanted it with UN consent so did Kerry yet Kerry is labled by some of Dean's supporters as a hawk, I say some because some Dean supporters acknowledge Kerry as one of the good guys.

[unfrigginreal]

19. Deans strategy is to not pussyfoot on the issues like your candidate...

John Kerry. We got to see another fine example of Kerry's leadership capabilities tonight when he suddenly had a change of heart and would have voted against NAFTA. LOL!

Kerry has been in the Senate for the entire 3 years of the Bush presidency and his criticisms have been timid at best. He and the rest of the Democratic field finally started showing some balls AFTER Dean went on unapologetic assaults against Bush policies. Makes your guy seem more like a follower than a leader! Kerry rightly deserves his Wishy-washy title.

[loyalsister]

27. Kind of like how

Kucinich changed his right wing anti-choice position during some epiphany where he suddenly recognized that women should be able to define what should happen to their bodies and their lives????
If people are going to credit DK with sincerity in that switch, they should be consistant.
Why is it SO impossible that for a candidate who ISN'T your favorite to have some positions that fall under the conservative heading as well as positions classified as liberal?

"He's really a classic Rockefeller Republican -- a fiscal conservative and social liberal,">>>>
BTW, "Rockefeller Republicans" are also known as closet Democrats. ie, Lincoln Chafee and Jim Jeffords. He did grow up in a Republican family. So what? Turned out to be a RINO and had the sense to switch to the party that demands social justice. Yet it's not good enough for people here. Not even when he actually opposes Bushco the way everyone wishes others would. Meanwhile they wish Zell Miller would be honest and switch.
Additionally, this is exactly where the middle voters are. No matter how much the radical left tries to glorify itself, it won't cancel out the importance of this voting block.

The next day, at his official campaign kickoff, Dean gave a 26-minute speech and didn't mention Iraq at all.>>
Whatever. If you go back and read the speech you would see that he's setting up a run against PNAC! It's a heck of a lot more realistic strategy than some pipe dream about cutting pentagon spending while we're occupying two countries barely two years after a major terrorist attack. Why anyone thinks that could possibly fly with the general public is beyond me.

[stickdog]

38. Same old, same old.

Dean was smack in the political center in Vermont, a state with a socialist Representative and a Republican-turned-Independent named Jim Jeffords.

If Jeffords is what passes for a Republican in Vermont, it's no surprise that a nationally moderate-left candidate like Dean would pass for a centrist locally. Wouldn't you agree?

[leftofthedial]

16. it's a mystery

He's very comparable to Clinton in his centrism in my view.

[JohnKleeb]

18. if not more so

He actually supported Yucca Mountain.

[leftofthedial]

20. I'm a Kucinich guy

But I'll vote for any Democratic nominee.

I'll even swallow hard, hold my nose, and vote for . . .

for . . .

I'll even vote for . . .

for . . .

. . .

Lieberman.

Okay. there. I said it.

But Joe won't win the nomination.

[JohnKleeb]

24. I am ABB and for Kucinich too

[fabius]

26. Hey, I support Yucca Mtn too.

You ever been to Nevada? Gotta put that nuke waste somewhere.

Whatever happens, Democrats and Americans owe Dean one major debt of gratitude - he is showing us all how to do an effective, true, 21st century grassroots campaign. That's why the Repugs and the DLC are so scared.

Think, 2 million people contribute 100 bucks each - not so far-fetched - 200 million bucks - and there goes the Repugnant fundraising advantage right down the toilet. And the DLC becomes irrelevant. If the Repugs get beat on fundraising and their base gets donor fatigue, then they'll come whining and begging for public campaign financing.

As a purist I would be for Kucinich. But Dean looks pretty strong and is better organized. And we need those young voters that never voted before.

[maggrwaggr]

17. "Dean - the man who wanted to keep Saddam Hussein in power"

Don't flame me - I saw that on the Freeper site.

It's powerful and it could stick.

You can bet theyr'e gonna use that and a whole lot more we haven't even thought of yet.

How do we respond to that one?

[tnlefty]

22. Bush - the man who wanted to piss on the world and then blow it up while

spending you into the poorhouse?

[fabius]

28. Bush - He can't handle money.

Use some sound bites and labels:

Repugs - cheap labor conservatives
Repugs - want to throw your granny out in the street
Repugs - Greedy Old Party
Repugs - Say "yes" to corporate feudalism
Repugs - Killing Social Security
Repugs - Say "yes" to starvation
Repugs - Create jobs in other countries

Robber Barons at least built transcontinental railroads while stealing us blind- what has Bush done for you?

Feudal kings and knights at least fought to protect the peasants that they oppressed - what has Bush done for you?

If Iraqis need schools and medical care what about Americans?

etc, etc, make up your own and pass them around.

[laura888]

33. Bush, the man who wanted to distract us from...

...pursuing the real criminals behind 9/11 - Al Quaeda. $ being funnelled to Iraq is $ that could be spend on gathering intelligence, pursuing Bin Laden.

[stickdog]

39. Bush - The Man Who Lied So He Could Piss Away 100 Billion Killing Iraqis

Bush's Record Deficits: It's Not Just No Jobs -- It's an Indenture.

[tameszu]

21. Because his strategy invites it:

Dean is using, in a brilliant manner, the classic strategy of running toward the base in the primaries, while planning to run back to the middle in the generals. He's doing it mainly based on his tone, as his positions, while reasonably progressive for the U.S., aren't stunningly left compared to the other candidates. This strategy is perfectly sensible, although it opens you up to calls of shiftiness, etc. from purists.

The cons of this approach, besides the shiftiness meme (which afflicts 98% of successful politicians, anyway) is that the tone and rhetoric you purposely take in the primaries may stick to you in the generals--especially if the media decides to hang some label on you--and running back to the center won't work.

The pros of this approach is that the Dems and probably the whole country need some kick ass rhetoric, considering the relative free ride the media and indeed many prominent Dems have given the Bush Admin. Another pro is that tapping into the base during primary season mobilizes a lot more people into getting politically active than it may previously have, due to the Internet.

[Tinoire]

25. Because they are telling us what most people want to hear

My analysis is that Kerry and Dean are the CFR candidates and the CFR will do whatever it can, give whatever support to get one of its boys in there.

Kerry made an irreparable SNAFU when he enabled Bush and it was clear from the angry anti-war marches, web-sites such as this one, monitored e-mails and other communications that Kerry wouldn't easily be forgiven his mis-step.

Everyone pumped for a real anti-war candidate. Everyone pumped for a real leftist. Check the internet boards, the proliferation of leftist, alternate news sites- the boys saw the writing on the floor so what to do now? Present a relatively unknown centrist, parade him around as an anti-war leftist candidate and BINGO. This trick already worked to get two centrists in the White House, third time should be a charm.

This my humble analysis and no more. But I will say one more thing, at DU and on the Dean blogs, I've noticed a slow steady trickle of people re-assessing their support, asking very pertinent questions to which they're not getting good answers, requesting clarification for positions that leave too much wiggle room and/or don't quite match the record.

Now is the time for Dean to deliver on the promises. You can't be everything to everyone and I think that's where Dean is going to fall short. Eventually, you're going to have the Centrists, and the Leftists, the Gays and the Straights, the Laborers and the Managers in the same room... and this time, everyone's all ears and checking everything twice because the last 3 years have been too brutal.

The ship has steered so far off course that most Dems want to take a HARD Left. Can Dean deliver that? Are people willing to bet the next 4 years that the rift between him and the DLC is as great as the DLC says it is?

All the candidates are going to have to stand on their deeds from now on. We saw what happened to Lieberman tonight and he's the one about whom the media kept telling us "Lieberman is in the lead, Lieberman is in the lead".

But no. He's out now. No war-mongerers. No one who's not Left and Liberal.

This is why they keep telling us Dean is too far Left. If you ask me, this is going to do Dean a great mis-service. I think he'd be better off campaigning as a Centrist and snatching the Centrist votes from other candidates Dems have an axe to grind against for enabling Bush- because those votes he wouldn't risk losing.

Of course, like I said- that's just my personal analysis.

[w4rma]

30. Dean's promises are all doable. Nothing that he has proposed

cannot be done if he is elected. He's not selling a batch of promises that he can't follow through on if elected. If you think that he has made promises he can't keep, then show us the quote. Show me that promise, because I have been paying close attention and this guy may be a moderate, but he's consistant and for real.

Do your research.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. I thought he was too on the right... who here is saying he's on the left?

I thought he was too on the right... who here is saying he's on the left? he's not is he? I know he's on my right that's for sure.

[JohnKleeb]

34. some people

He's too right for me too and I support Kucinich first and Kerry second. Its not the social issues for me with Dean its economics and Kerry and Kucinich surpass him on that,

[TSIAS]

37. Initially, some may have perceived him as far left

I think most Dean supporters have come to grips with the fact that he's not as liberal as they may have prefered. I believe people fear that Dean will be perceived as liberal, even if that label is absolute crap. It seems as if the words "Northeast" and "Liberal" are almost interchangable to some people.

[Mairead]

35. Because they're right-wing lunatics, or lack the ability to

perceive reality. Dean doesn't begin to be 'too far left' on any rational scale.

[rman]

36. "everybody"? Where did you get that idea?

.